Intel 13th Gen CPU thread

They have to lose before they can start to gain again. New designs take time and money. I think Intel did the correct thing by bringing Pat back. I would like to see them move faster but that's not how these things work. They have to balance the shareholder fears and triple check the lotto algorithm.:lol:

Still, I think they are on the right track and will be very strong and dominant again in 5 years. Part of it, is bringing in new talent and making tough calls on who is right for Intel and who is not. They had alot of dead weight and were set up for quick profit with no care for the future. The typical modern balancing of gender and skin color instead of skill based work force. So it's going to take some effort to reverse that. You can't be capitalist if you are following sexist and racist stat guidelines setup by corrupt media groups to control business.

The other thing was the previous CEO's were brought in by money men to make Intel do well on the stock market for the short term and they didn't understand the manufacturing side of things.
 
They're stock has definitely been tanking. I bought in at $48 thinking I was getting a deal. Bad call on my part. It got a lot worse than that. :bleh:

I read somewhere that they have many times more employees than AMD does and yet look at AMD and how successful they've become. I hate to even look at angles like layoffs but it seems they need to have a hard look at their employee base and make some decisions there.

They've been beat down pretty good but all is not lost yet. There is still time to turn the ship around.
 
They're doing very well. Intel has more employees because they are a larger business; AMD does not deal in fabrication.. Intel does, for example.

Intel is spending heavily to get themselves back in a leadership position. I don't see their plan failing. The US Gov is about to approve a ton of incentive and tax credit for Intel and TSMC to keep pushing new/upgraded fab facilities.

Intel is going to do just fine. I'd buy the dips and keep riding.. they aren't going anywhere. Way too many IPs and government contracts that will keep them around for a long, long time to come.
 
AMD tapped out of the fab business long ago. Intel is a larger company and should have more people working for them. All I was saying is it was a trend to replace the head of every department with a female and then invite the media over to come interview them about Intel's latest. Intel was being run by a talentless moron that was way to worried about balancing gender and race percentages to win points with the media and improve the public face of the company. He saved every dime because his predecessors were so good he could win without doing anything for a while. It works when all you have to do is fake everything to keep winning but when you actually need to produce product that competes and push things forward, you need a competent workforce and you need to spend money and innovate. That's why you need someone in charge that understands how to produce competitive products which starts with bringing in people based on education, work history and how well they do on a aptitude test.

If you a have stock in Intel, hold onto it. It will go through the roof after this dip. The USA fabs are going to destroy the competition.
 
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the_sextein said:
AMD tapped out of the fab business long ago. Intel is a larger company and should have more people working for them. All I was saying is it was a trend to replace the head of every department with a female and then invite the media over to come interview them about Intel's latest. Intel was being run by a talentless moron that was way to worried about balancing gender and race percentages to win points with the media and improve the public face of the company. He saved every dime because his predecessors were so good he could win without doing anything for a while. It works when all you have to do is fake everything to keep winning but when you actually need to produce product that competes and push things forward, you need a competent workforce and you need to spend money and innovate. That's why you need someone in charge that understands how to produce competitive products which starts with bringing in people based on education, work history and how well they do on a aptitude test.

If you a have stock in Intel, hold onto it. It will go through the roof after this dip. The USA fabs are going to destroy the competition.
Click to expand...

Interactive chart of historical net worth (market cap) for Intel (INTC) over the last 10 years. How much a company is worth is typically represented by its market capitalization, or the current stock price multiplied by the number of shares outstanding. Intel net worth as of August 05, 2022 is $145.31B.
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https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/... chart of historical net,04, 2022 is $149.95B.


Interactive chart of historical net worth (market cap) for AMD (AMD) over the last 10 years. How much a company is worth is typically represented by its market capitalization, or the current stock price multiplied by the number of shares outstanding. AMD net worth as of August 05, 2022 is $165.16B.
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https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/...xt=How much a company is,05, 2022 is $165.16B.

doesn't seem to have hurt them

and isn't Intel planning to use TSMC also for some CPU's ?
 
It hurt them greatly in the past when Intel's greater availability and more advanced node allowed them to flood the market and smash prices at a moment's notice while bringing much more powerful chip designs to market. Compare how much money Intel has and how big it is vs AMD and yes it clearly made a big difference for Intel in the past. AMD was obliterated for more than a decade while nobody was even at the helm over at Intel. These days it doesn't matter as Intel neglected it's manufacturing for so long that it is no longer competitive and provides no benefit for them at the moment. In fact, their obsession with using it even though it could not compete with TSMC is why they fell behind and needed to work with TSMC to make new, more advanced chip designs to combat AMD's latest TSMC manufactured chips.

That will change in about 5 years. Look at the money trail and you can see what is about to happen. I wouldn't be surprised if Nvidia went to Intel since they are clearly tired of fighting AMD's console toys at TSMC. American chip giants go to TSMC because they are the designated manufacturing force at the moment. If a viable alternative becomes available in their homeland, they will jump ship in a hurry. It all comes down to how successful Intel will be with its new planned expenditure and how much space they will have for companies other than their own. Given the amount of money being spent by Intel and the U.S government, I would say they are very confident.
 
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the_sextein said:
It hurt them greatly in the past when Intel's greater availability and more advanced node allowed them to flood the market and smash prices at a moment's notice while bringing much more powerful chip designs to market. Compare how much money Intel has and how big it is vs AMD and yes it clearly made a big difference for Intel in the past. AMD was obliterated for more than a decade while nobody was even at the helm over at Intel. These days it doesn't matter as Intel neglected it's manufacturing for so long that it is no longer competitive and provides no benefit for them at the moment. In fact, their obsession with using it even though it could not compete with TSMC is why they fell behind and needed to work with TSMC to make new, more advanced chip designs to combat AMD's latest TSMC manufactured chips.

That will change in about 5 years. Look at the money trail and you can see what is about to happen. I wouldn't be surprised if Nvidia went to Intel since they are clearly tired of fighting AMD's console toys at TSMC. American chip giants go to TSMC because they are the designated manufacturing force at the moment. If a viable alternative becomes available in their homeland, they will jump ship in a hurry. It all comes down to how successful Intel will be with its new planned expenditure and how much space they will have for companies other than their own. Given the amount of money being spent by Intel and the U.S government, I would say they are very confident.
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already here

TSMC completes the construction of its Phoenix-based fab which will produce 5nm chips in 2024
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On LinkedIn, TSMC announced "We recently celebrated placing the last beam – also known in the construction industry as a 'topping' milestone - in FAB 21’s fab building with our local partners. Over 4,000 attendees were on hand to enjoy this important moment including our own employees and partners. #TSMCArizona i
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https://www.phonearena.com/news/tsmc-completes-construction-of-us-fab_id141608

....

China War Risk Sees Taiwan’s TSMC Moving Fabs to US, Japan
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https://www.asiafinancial.com/china-risk-sees-taiwans-tsmc-moving-chip-fabs-overseas

i bet by the time TSMC fab 21 goes on line in 2024 here in Phoenix there will be one or two or more being built in the US


and the amount of money being spent by Intel down their Arc GPU money pit :lol:
NV will never go to them TSMC will have 3nm this year 2 years before Intel has their 5nm
 
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TSMC has been trying to keep America out of the chip war because they know what's going to happen. That plant in Arizona was TSMC doing it's best to calm the U.S fears that Taiwan will be taken over or eaten alive and controlled by China. It didn't work and the chip shortage was just a reminder that all of these mega corporations from America want more chips than TSMC can provide. American companies have the ability to make and supply their own chips and supply them to other chipmakers including their own competition which will eat TSMC's profits. Once that happens the price of manufacturing will drop and CPU/GPU prices will drop as well. No more playing games for the latest node. Once we hit 2nm you are not going to see much difference between manufacturers. Samsung will skyrocket and everyone invested in the industry will take home big gains just like in the past. Trust fund kids don't understand the importance of manufacturing or the realities of actually creating something. They are the first to ship overseas and throw American manufacturing to the wind. Those lazy people are the ones who gave rise to China as a super power in the first place. They are too dumb to be in control of business or government in my opinion and should keep their greedy little stock market paws off real world anything. If Nvidia using a 10nm process from Samsung could beat AMD using a 7nm process from TSMC imagine how little of a difference it's really going to make in the future when we hit 2nm or smaller. Nvidia did it to show TSMC that they are not in control and I bet you Nvidia will be the first to jump ship as soon as an alternative to TSMC becomes available.

American tech expanding it's own manufacturing ability will be much more stable economically and good thing for the entire industry. There is no reason why America's tech industry should be held hostage by a Chinese company that could fall under control of the Chinese government, not to mention that it's Americans that are buying this tech and paying through the nose for it. American tech companies will go with Chinese manufacturing if it saves them money but Chinese manufacturing in the high tech sector is a liability and it's no longer cheaper now that supply/demand has caused the cost of manufacturing to rise. Consumers like me and you are the ones who have been paying the price for that and I will be glad to see the problem delt with. I'm glad to see the U.S government step in because Intel should not have to compete against China's government and it's tech funding by itself.
 
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:lol: I'm hearing 350watts without power limitations but I bet prime 95 really will break 400 on intel's latest. Nothing is going to cool that if you run something that intense without power limitations.
 
Any AIO will cool. My guess is that most 2 fan AIO's will be able to work with the new chips. They'll just run hotter under those coolers and the fan noise will be more as they cool. It's not like the CPU won't just thermally throttle if it gets too hot.

Plus, most people don't run their CPU's at 100% all day, every day. So a 2 fan rad AIO should do the trick.

EDIT: A 9900k runs 200W stock and 250w OCed. I personally know a number of people that had a 120 AIO on theirs and were fine.
 
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Yeah I own one that I run at 5Ghz all core all the time. I use a 320mm cooler on mine and it runs nice and cool all the time unless you use an AVX512 enabled program that pushes the cores to 100%. When something like Prime 95 hits 250 watts nothing will help it. I used to have a $2000 EK custom water loop on the same chip and it didn't matter.

Intel will make these chips work on standard AIO's but they will have power limitations that keep them at 250 watts and even then it will be recommended that you go high end 320mm AIO for the high end 13900K. Pushing the chip beyond it's default values could be pretty insane as it seems that Intel is pushing it's silicon to the breaking point.
 
I mean my AMD hits 85-90 C easy on a 360 mm AIO. This Intel gonna rape a 360 mm if specs are remotely true.
 
I've noticed that there is a point where the heat is so concentrated that it doesn't matter what cooler you have. I had dual D5 pumps with a 460mm and a 320mm radiator and it simply didn't matter after a point. The design of the chip will have to alleviate it. AMD is pushing the frequency up to match Intel this time so they are going to have more power and heat as well. Intel's 8 large P cores have been insane ever since they broke 5Ghz with the 10900k but both Intel and AMD have to do something about it. AMD has a completely new design and dropped down to 5nm. Intel....they are still using the same 8 large core design from the 9900K days and they are still on 10nm like last time. Intel has improved 10nm results from TSMC but it doesn't look like it will be enough to keep it in check. 350 watts in PC mark is crazy. They could have reduced it nearly 100 watts but they had to push it up to 5.5Ghz all core to stay up with AMD so now they are pushing 12900K levels of crazy from the leaks that have been posted and it will be worse with the power restrictions lifted.

Intel has done a wonderful job with the E cores and they may end up taking the multithread crown this time but the 8 performance cores need to be redesigned for better power efficiency and Intel needs to drop down to 7nm or lower.
 
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Intel "10nm" is not an apples:apples comparison with TSMC "7nm". There is no standard to gauge the node sizes, so you have companies marketing things to look better than they are. There's a reason Intel has renamed their enhanced "10nm" node to *Intel 7*. Their current node is very close to TSMC 7nm in terms of density and size.

But yeah, temperatures are high on these new chips not so much due to the power/heat being generated, but because of the lack of surface area to dissipate and transfer the heat. This is why GPUs can consume 500watts and be cooled effectively, but a 5950X pushing 250watts is an absolute nightmare. Intel has been doing research apparently on a new IHS design from what I've heard that is trying to alleviate this issue.

AMDs design for AM4.. I have no idea. They sacrificed a lot of surface area with the *notches* on the IHS. I understand that's because they went LGA this round and needed to have capacitors on the front of the PCB, but it's still surface area lost.

The thicker the IHS and/or die, the worse it'll transfer heat. That's why Intel made so many adjustments to the IHS, and also thinning the substrates down on the die. We want to be as close as possible to the heat source as we can in order to transfer heat as efficiently as possible. I wish we could just go back to the days of chips coming with no lids, and we direct-to-die cooled as a standard. Unfortunately with the lack of braincells the average user has.. it'll never happen.
 
Intel's 10nm may be close to TSMC 7nm but it's still not the same density and AMD has dropped down to 5nm. They are both dealing with 8 large cores engaged at the same frequencies and similar IPC and cache holes seem to be filled on both sides. It seems to me that Intel needs to realize they aren't the ones manufacturing these things and they don't have an advantage in that area anymore. If they want to keep up then they need to actually keep up in this area.

I agree about AMD, it will be interesting to see how the new design handles the heat. It has been one of the largest limiting factors of AMD's design in the past. It would be nice if they came up with a solution but I'm not going to count on it. That's why I won't impulse buy anything from either one of them. I'll be waiting on reviews that cover temps properly before considering either one of them.

My GPU sucks 400 watts and never breaks 65C. I really don't care about the power but if Intel is going to suck down an extra 100 watts then they better cool it properly. I'm tired of 90-100C temps. I have to let my PC run all day sometimes under full load while it renders and if the GPU kicks out it would fry a chip that runs that hot. I'm sure the CPU would back off to avoid burning up but it would be stuck like that all day and severely reduce the life of the chip. It doesn't look like Intel has done anything to fix the problem yet and I have not heard anything to curb my fears that this is going to be just as bad, if not worse than the last chip. That's why I have been more optimistic with AMD this time. They at least have a new design and improved silicon since the last chip series and the more modern core design has been much more power efficient the last few releases vs intels P cores.
 
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