Is the Guide Plus still up and working?

[Lupine]

I see. Thanks for the info. It's strange because the post was there, then it was gone. Refreshing and it was still gone. So I posted a third time and it still didn't show up. But my post to which you replied (obviously) did show up. I left, I came back, and the post was there! I edited it, then it disappeared again! Now I see it's still gone so I'm trying it yet a 4th time. (Good thing I have a habit of saving all posts at all forums, that prevents you from having to type the post over and over again).

Yeah, editing it dumped it back into the mod queue lol. Gotta love anti-spam tools.

 

[averick]

Sent this morning through:
http://www.rovicorp.com/company/11032.htm
I received an autoresponse within a few minutes.

Then I moved a couple paragraphs around and emailed it to:
[email protected]
-----------------------
Rovi owns Gemstar Guide Plus+ for Windows. Some of us still use that product -- faithfully. On or around December 11, someone at Rovi, or with administrator access, implemented username/password protection at the root level on the server that provides our TV listing data -- http://144.198.100.134

The script used to update our Guide Plus+ listings is in a sub-directory of that root: http://144.198.100.134/gtidl/gdnget2.asp

Because of this new username/password protection, Guide Plus+ is unable to update TV listings. We have already lost more than one week of quality TV time. Lets fix the problem quickly or provide a fast, reasonable alternative.

Over the last week, several users have sent several messages to various parties at Rovi. To date, there has been no response. It's quite frustrating.

Please respond.

If welcome, I and several others would be glad to work with Rovi in fixing this problem. We can test whatever you wish and provide feedback. We are not unreasonable but, many of us paid hundreds of dollars for our hardware and software. We are financially and emotionally invested.

Please respond.
--------------------------------

 

[averick]

Hmmm... [email protected] results in a delivery error:
------------------
This is a permanent error; I've given up. Sorry it didn't work out.
<[email protected]>:
Sorry, I couldn't find any host named Rovi.net. (#5.1.2)
------------------

That's pretty sad. I pulled that email address from their "Legal and Privacy Notices" page: http://www.rovicorp.com/company/legal.htm

On a hunch, I sent my blurb to: [email protected]. It's been a few minutes... No autoresponse, but no failure notice either.

I also tried calling them. Not having a long-distance plan, I'm not inclined to call Cali from Toronto. So I searched for any of their offices with an 800 number. New York, Park Avenue office is the only 800 I found -- and it's either a wrong number or it won't take calls from Canada... (800) 892-4569.

Round and round we go.

 

[averick]

So here's the 4th attempt:

Has anyone that's emailed Rovi gotten any replies yet? Those of you that called, what was their explanation for this?

The last time this happened and I emailed them, the working address I used was Ce_customer_support[at]tvguide.com . Since that is/was TV Guide, why is Rovi involved with this and not Lionsgate Entertainment Corporation who now owns TV Guide?

BTW, the last time this happened and I contacted them at the address above, they didn't even know there was a problem! Or at least they wouldn't admit to it. So I didn't even try that address this time.

Why Rovi is involved:

1. Traceroute shows they own the server that supplies our listing updates.
2. The script used by Guide Plus+ for Windows is on that server.
3. Through aquisitions, Rovi owns Guide Plus+.

Three strikes and you're in.

We bought our hardware and software from ATI. When AMD bought ATI, they inherited some legal responsibility to accommodate us. To the best of my knowledge, our purchases included the free listings – with no expiry date specified.

Maybe we should be trying to deal with AMD. But the listing update action is done through Gemstar’s Guide Plus+ for Windows. AMD has no physical involvement. So the most direct route to our data is Rovi – who aquired Guide Plus+ and is in physical control of the data and the update software.

I’m no lawyer and I doubt lawyer involvement would be best for any of us. Nor do I think it will be necessary. The first statement Rovi makes describing their corporate culture is:

Customer focused – In all aspects of the business the customer drives our success. Loyal customers fuel success and growth. Customers are external and internal; we treat each other with respect and integrity and with the best interest of the customer in all interactions.

Failing to resolve our problem would reflect poorly on them. I’m confident we just need to get the attention of the right person at Rovi.

Rovi is the last one holding the bag. And that may be a good thing for us. I don’t think it would cost them anything to accommodate us. And there’s a broad range of potential benefit for them if they play nice. We just have to keep trying until we’re heard -- or so I hope.

 

[averick]

Not just for kicks... I was on the AMD website. I thought maybe I could enlist more voices for our chorus or something. No go. Seems they're all home for the holidays. They've even disabled their contact and feeback forms until next year. On my way out, they invited me to participate in survey about useful their site is. I did. On the last page, a text box allowed input on how they could improve... I said:
----------------------------
Provide help or useful information for users of Guide Plus+ for Windows. I paid around $350 - $400 for my AIW card which came with MMC and Guide Plus+ for Windows. It promised free TV listings. There was no mention of an expiry date. If AMD can't support the product, they should help users get support -- or at least try. Make an effort. Give us useful information. Point us in the right direction. Suggest who is legally responsible. Do something. Don't just ignore us and leave us twisting in the wind.
----------------------------

It may have been a wasted effort but, hey... I had the time. It's like I know about there being anything good on TV.

I think I'll up my meds, and maybe have a drink or two. lol

 

[Clint S.]

Why Rovi is involved:

1. Traceroute shows they own the server that supplies our listing updates.
2. The script used by Guide Plus+ for Windows is on that server.

Yeah I knew that, but the question/potential issue is; what we previously used for updates (the domain or IP URL), may not be the correct URL anymore. Yes, Rovi owns 144.198.100.134 and 152.101.67.132, and gemstar*.net domains, but those addresses possibly have nothing to do with getting updates any longer. The Registry settings under HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Gemstar\ETV\URL could need totally different URL's, and/or even from some other company.

Through aquisitions, Rovi owns Guide Plus+.

When did those acquisitions take place? A long time back, or right when this latest problem happened?

Are we even sure Rovi still owns Gemstar? According to that URL I posted, they don't. At least not TVGuide, which who was last handling Gemstar (as per that email address I used last time).

We bought our hardware and software from ATI. When AMD bought ATI, they inherited some legal responsibility to accommodate us. To the best of my knowledge, our purchases included the free listings – with no expiry date specified.

Yeah, someone is always trying to make more $ off people with the ol' bait 'n switch routines. What I find puzzling, is why password protect the URL(s)? Either: they want to start charging the for the updates, or, the URL is no longer valid, it now may not have anything to do with updates. Since it is pw protected, I'm more inclined to believe the former, but if that was the case, how would they contact Gemstar users and tell them it will now cost??

Maybe we should be trying to deal with AMD. But the listing update action is done through Gemstar’s Guide Plus+ for Windows. AMD has no physical involvement.

I tried AMD years ago, and it was useless.

I’m no lawyer and I doubt lawyer involvement would be best for any of us. Nor do I think it will be necessary.

It wouldn't help anyway. All you'd get is something like "They are free to do whatever they please with their new acquisitions", blah blah..... (again, that is IF they are the right company).

The first statement Rovi makes describing their corporate culture is:

Customer focused – In all aspects of the business the customer drives our success. Loyal customers fuel success and growth. Customers are external and internal; we treat each other with respect and integrity and with the best interest of the customer in all interactions.

Like most companies, that's just "window dressing" and "eye candy".

Failing to resolve our problem would reflect poorly on them. I’m confident we just need to get the attention of the right person at Rovi.

It would probably take thousands of people and thousands of complaints for them to even begin to even consider anything. We have to remember, 99.9% of everyone using Gemstar/ETV is totally clueless and oblivious to even begin to know where to start. Just a small infinitesimal few like us know about it and to whom to complain.

 

[Clint S.]

All, what kind of MMC EPG software is coming with ATI AIW cards now?? It has to have some kind, right? I'm sure many of you have new AIW cards (I'm old, AIW 9800 Pro ), but can this newer software work with the older cards? Or has your new software also stopped working?

Are there any alternatives to Gemstar that will work with AIW cards, just to show the TV Guide program listings portion?

 

[bigdave]

I called Rovi

I called Rovi

On Dec 16 I called Rovi at 408-562-8400 and managed to talk to a human. She was the operator and was aware of our problem, but explained that Rovi sold the department. She told me to call Gemstar TV Guide at 323-856-4000. I did. They are deadly serious there about not talking to customers. Under no circumstances could I talk to anyone. Good luck to us.

Based on this I believe that Rovi is not the object of our interest. It would be nice if they facilitated resolving our problem, but there's no reason to believe they will. Customer service clearly isn't a priority with anyone associated with this situation.

In response to Clint's question about Electronic Programming Guides for newer ATI products I found this from Jan 09 relating to ATI TV Wonder products at:
http://support.amd.com/us/kbarticles/Pages/41344-ATICatalystMediaCenUpdat.aspx
"Replacement of the GemStar EPG with a new Channel Categorized EPG for North America"

I'm still researching what that means.

 

[averick]

Not wanting to get off topic but, to answer Clint's question... The replaced Multimedia Center (MMC) with Catalyst Media Center (CMC). The difference between the two are like apple pie and sour grapes. There's not much for basing a comparison on. In haste this summer, I built a new computer around a TV Wonder 650 PCIe combo card. Silly me for not doing research first.

CMC is a full-screen, slow-loading application. There's nothing compact about it. It has no respect for users that multi-task. It provides a pathetically limited configuration for things like recording settings. For anyone using their MMC like I do, it's hard to imagine anything worse.

To be sure. There have been and are positive reviews and comments about CMC. Good for them, I say. But if those users live on Earth, I live on Mars. We have radically different needs. There's almost no common ground between us or between MMC and CMC.

Somebody really should post screen shots and/or short videos of CMC in use.

Not an issue for Clint but, CMC doesn't provide EPG data for Canada. It uses TitanTV -- U.S.A. listings only.

As for alternatives to Guide Plus+ for Windows... I've searched high and low. Spent hundreds of those $$$$ things. Built, rebuilt and tried again with a variety of hardware, software and operating systems. I feel confident saying nothing is or has ever been available that compares to a properly-functioning MMC system. Nothing provides as much useful data on screen, providing as many action options with anywhere near the configurability. Add to that, the seamless integration with your capture card... For me and how I use my stuff, there simply isn't anything that compares.

 

[Clint S.]

On Dec 16 I called Rovi at 408-562-8400 and managed to talk to a human. She was the operator and was aware of our problem, but explained that Rovi sold the department. She told me to call Gemstar TV Guide at 323-856-4000. I did. They are deadly serious there about not talking to customers. Under no circumstances could I talk to anyone. Good luck to us.

?? "Gemstar TV Guide"?? Like I pointed out on my other posts, Rovi's site is saying it's "Lionsgate Entertainment Corporation":

"About the TV Guide Television Network and www.tvguide.com

On March 2, 2009 the TV Guide television network and the TV Guide consumer website (http://www.tvguide.com/) were sold to Lionsgate Entertainment Corporation. If you are inquiring about the website or the network, please contact TV Guide Network customer service at +1 (323) 856-4000."

But at least it's the same phone #.

So what exactly do you mean by "Under no circumstances could I talk to anyone"? Did they refuse to talk with you about this topic, or they just wouldn't answer the phone, or what exactly?

Sounds like no one wants anything to do with Gemstar EPG, and it's confusing as to why.

In response to Clint's question about Electronic Programming Guides for newer ATI products I found this from Jan 09 relating to ATI TV Wonder products at:
http://support.amd.com/us/kbarticles/Pages/41344-ATICatalystMediaCenUpdat.aspx
"Replacement of the GemStar EPG with a new Channel Categorized EPG for North America"

I'm still researching what that means.

I downloaded the drivers for that card, extracted them, examined all the files, and as I expected, there's nothing in the download about any EPG! I even did searches for "a file or phrase within each of the files. Nothing at all about: MMC, CMC, Gemstar, Titan, EPG, etc., etc. Then I even clicked on many of the main executables and .msi files to see what they would install. Nothing about any TV tuner software! I then tried other downloads, same thing.

Gemstar was never part of any ATI download from what I recall, it was only on the CD that came with the AIW cards.

So next I unpacked that patch on that page you mentioned, and now I see some things about the TV tuner. One that pops out is a .ini file "TVEPGSetting.ini" with this in it:

[EPG]

[EPG_Default]
default_epgsourcename = 
default_iepgproviderlist = ['Gist', 'Titan', 'Gemstar']
default_epgcustomername = Cyberlink
default_iepgsupportcountry = {u'Gist': [u'Austria', u'Belgium', 
u'France', u'Germany', u'United_Kingdom', u'Italy', 
u'Netherlands', u'Spain', u'Switzerland'], u'Titan' : [u'USA'], 
u'Gemstar' : [u'USA']}

Interesting there's both "Titan" and "Gemstar" in it.

There's also a registry file "TV", and another .ini file "TVsetting". As to the actual software files, they are apparently in the .cab files which I never can open in neither WinZip nor WinRar. If anyone has a way of opening these cab files, that could tell us something about how and what is installed. But from what "averick" said, it (no surprise), sucks.

 

[Clint S.]

Not wanting to get off topic but.......

I don't think that's OT because obviously we are all going to have to find a replacement for Gemstar......

......to answer Clint's question... The replaced Multimedia Center (MMC) with Catalyst Media Center (CMC). The difference between the two are like apple pie and sour grapes. There's not much for basing a comparison on. In haste this summer, I built a new computer around a TV Wonder 650 PCIe combo card. Silly me for not doing research first.

(Thanks for the info)....and it would seem from what you said, there is no replacement, which doesn't suprise me one bit:

CMC is a full-screen, slow-loading application. There's nothing compact about it. It has no respect for users that multi-task. It provides a pathetically limited configuration for things like recording settings. For anyone using their MMC like I do, it's hard to imagine anything worse.

ATI has a long history of f'ing up their newer software/driver versions. That's why I've saved most driver and software packages I've used for over a decade now. They remove more and more features, and in place introduce more instability issues. That's why I've been using Omega drivers for my AIW. Remember the MMC issue with the TVoD problem, and the tuner always in some kind of "record" mode? They introduced that in some MMC version (and again, a version with fewer features). It took a while to find a hack to fix that. Then I finally found the latest MMC version that did not have that BS (9.06) and an Omega driver version that worked with it.

Not an issue for Clint but, CMC doesn't provide EPG data for Canada. It uses TitanTV -- U.S.A. listings only.

I wonder if TitanTV can replace Gemstar and can work with the MMC?

 

[bearbone]

According to the Elgato website which owns TitanTV, they are switching to TVGuide in 2010.

If TVGuide does not help us, we are out of luck. Also, I read on the Elgato website that users will have to subscribe to TVGuide to be able to update their listings. Once you sbscribe, you will be given a password that will be imbedded into your computer to do auto listings. Will cost about $20.00 year.

That may be why our url is passworded now. Only question is how do we subscribe?

 

[Clint S.]

What happened to the post by "bearbone"?? It seemed a very appropriate post to me.

 

[Lupine]

Again, if the filter flags a post as possible spam, it gets placed in the mod queue for review. The threshold for new members if set lower, for obvious reasons, and the moderator staff does their best to process the queue as quickly as possible.

 

[kn00tcn]

.cab files which I never can open in neither WinZip nor WinRar. If anyone has a way of opening these cab files, that could tell us something about how and what is installed

try universal extractor, or one of the installshield extractors, but installshield versions of the last few years cant be extracted without the original installer that the cabs came from

 

[DA1745]

All, what kind of MMC EPG software is coming with ATI AIW cards now?? It has to have some kind, right? I'm sure many of you have new AIW cards (I'm old, AIW 9800 Pro ), but can this newer software work with the older cards? Or has your new software also stopped working?

Are there any alternatives to Gemstar that will work with AIW cards, just to show the TV Guide program listings portion?

This got me thinking back to a XP MCE system set up that I was using to test an ATI AIW X800XL PCI-E on. It took some work to get all three running but for a time I was able to use MMC 9.16, XP's Media Center, & CMC software that comes with the TV Wonder 650 all on the same system.
It was problematic, I had to use MMC 9.16 because the X800XL PCI-E will not run on non-unified T200 drivers, which was disappointing! But, sooooo is CMC. That patch that some of you were referncing before
http://support.amd.com/us/kbarticles/Pages/41344-ATICatalystMediaCenUpdat.aspx
does very little to anything to fix CMC... It's been well hashed in threads on RAGE 3d & elsewhere but CMC is HORRIBLE!!! It's outsourced from Cyberlink & there very old Power Cinema 4 + additional Cyberlink software bundled in.
As mentioned it does offer Titan (which XP MCE, VISTA, & W7 Use) & one other TV guide option but it never worked well I cant' remember what it was even called.
It's NOT A DEAD END, using CMC with legacy AIW & TV Tuners for an EPG, but it may cause premature computer failure as you throw it out the fracking window b/c it's driving you !
Another solution at that point would be to get a copy of XP MCE... If you own a Dell or other boxed unit you may find the CD's (2) or DVD to install it & at least the way Dell operated the keys, it simply verifies it's a Dell system so no key is required. Other options, there are a few FREE Media Centers ~ PVR software packs, but Snap Stream's Beyond TV & Sage TV work with the AIW lines & even work with the Tuner in VISTA.

...In response to Clint's question about Electronic Programming Guides for newer ATI products I found this from Jan 09 relating to ATI TV Wonder products at:
http://support.amd.com/us/kbarticles/Pages/41344-ATICatalystMediaCenUpdat.aspx
"Replacement of the GemStar EPG with a new Channel Categorized EPG for North America"

I'm still researching what that means.

========================================================

?? "Gemstar TV Guide"?? Like I pointed out on my other posts, Rovi's site is saying it's "Lionsgate Entertainment Corporation":

"About the TV Guide Television Network and www.tvguide.com

On March 2, 2009 the TV Guide television network and the TV Guide consumer website (http://www.tvguide.com/) were sold to Lionsgate Entertainment Corporation. If you are inquiring about the website or the network, please contact TV Guide Network customer service at +1 (323) 856-4000."
===========================

So next I unpacked that patch on that page you mentioned, and now I see some things about the TV tuner. One that pops out is a .ini file "TVEPGSetting.ini" with this in it:

Interesting there's both "Titan" and "Gemstar" in it.
But from what "averick" said, it (no surprise), sucks.

ATI was in the process of switching or at least expanding to using Titan TV when the HDTV Wonder card came out. Because Guide Plus was analog only. So as I posted before (i think even in this thread) Titan TV will work if you have an HDTV wonder in a limited EPG capacity. Who knows if AMD hadn't bought ATI whether they would have expanded that out or not but they didn't.

I called & left a message at the above number, but in the message it gives numbers for two other branches of theirs so i'll try those again on a business day.

I hope people are calling (especially those with free long distance) and putting some pressure these people.
If it's Lionsgate then I'm off to find out more info on them & if they have an email or complaint form somewhere.

 

[Clint S.]

try universal extractor, or one of the installshield extractors, but installshield versions of the last few years cant be extracted without the original installer that the cabs came from

In one of the other downloads I checked, I found a "TitanTV" folder. It was on this page under "DAO/MDAC". The actual download for the entire file is
https://a248.e.akamai.net/f/674/9206/0/www2.ati.com/drivers/9-14_mmc_uci.exe . I haven't tried to install it yet. Is anyone familiar with that?

 

[Clint S.]

....ATI was in the process of switching or at least expanding to using Titan TV when the HDTV Wonder card came out. Because Guide Plus was analog only. So as I posted before (i think even in this thread) Titan TV will work if you have an HDTV wonder in a limited EPG capacity. Who knows if AMD hadn't bought ATI whether they would have expanded that out or not but they didn't.

TitanTV won't work with an AIW and cable TV?

 

[Clint S.]

try universal extractor, or one of the installshield extractors, but installshield versions of the last few years cant be extracted without the original installer that the cabs came from

Thanks. Ok I tried Universal Extractor on the cab files in the "cmc_patch_v4310" download, and it would not open the "data2.cab" file. For some reason the log says "Could not open \cmc_patch_v4310\data2.hdr". There is no "data2.hdr" file.

But there is a data1.hdr file (perhaps that's the problem with opening data2.cab), and data2.cab did open with the program.

It it I found 27 files and 3 folders with "EPG" in them. The 3 folders were called "EPG".

2 files with "gemstar" in them (.xml and a .kc file).

0 files with "titan" in them.

Of all these files, not a single one was a .exe nor .msi, so since there is no installer in these files, it would appear the entire download would have to be installed. Then maybe it will give you a "Custom install" option and you can uncheck all boxes for what to install except the TV Tuner part(s). However there is 12 *.exe files in the unpacked "data1.cab" file, and one of them is "Install.exe". (There were no *.msi files in data1.cab).

Again I don't know what's in the data2.cab file.

If anyone wants to check out the contents of the data1.cab file (that I described above), it's in the patch download at the bottom of http://support.amd.com/us/kbarticles/Pages/41344-ATICatalystMediaCenUpdat.aspx .

 

[bitbucket]

First I'd like to offer kudos for the tenacity shown by some of the people trying to diagnose/resolve this issue. I agree with everyone who posted suggesting that the service should still be available to those who've already "paid the piper". That all the parties responsible (in whole or in part) seem to be washing their hands on this is reprehensible.
I understand that things change. Companies are sold, business models are not realistic, etc., ad nauseam. Quite frankly, I'd be willing to pay $20/yr for a RELIABLE listing service which would work with my All-In-Wonder and allow me to use my computer as a PVR. Guide Plus+ worked very well for me and I'd like to get that functionality back.
I've tried to do my bit, submitting to Rovi, trying to submit to ATI (and getting an HTTP 500 error for my trouble!) and trust that if enough of us raise a fuss then at least someone will recognize that there's an eager market out there. We just need to hope that (un)common sense prevails and a potential provider doesn't want to charge unreasonable fees for the service. Especially since we've already paid for it!

Merry Christmas, all!