Sad sad state of affairs for anyone hoping for Radeon greatness

SoCalMX70 said:
I would understand a thread with solid news or SOME sort of foundation for discussion, pro-Nvidia or not. This one offers, feelings?

Or maybe just the same 'ol Nvidia has the high end, AMD is broke, no Vega until 2177 (when we figure out FTL travel and go there, duh), 1080 is over priced, 480 is over priced, 4gb isn't enough, I'm mega-hurt about my mhz not having enough mhz... and so on...
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Your not being fair. Ive been pro ATI, then AMD/RTG forever. Ive never seen the brand be this far behind like since forever!!

Threads dont HAVE to be about news. They can be about opinions as well. Even emotional ones LOL. Also Im sure that Im not the only one thats frustrated with what AMD have done or NOT done in the last 4 years. They have been giving Nvidia free reign over the high end now for what...4 years ??

Anyways its kewl....we dont have to agree. Its just the way I feel about how AMD has ****ed the radeon brand.
 
Spyhawk said:
Your not being fair. Ive been pro ATI, then AMD/RTG forever. Ive never seen the brand be this far behind like since forever!!

Threads dont HAVE to be about news. They can be about opinions as well. Even emotional ones LOL. Also Im sure that Im not the only one thats frustrated with what AMD have done or NOT done in the last 4 years. They have been giving Nvidia free reign over the high end now for what...4 years ??

Anyways its kewl....we dont have to agree. Its just the way I feel about how AMD has ****ed the radeon brand.
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I actually don't necessarily agree or disagree with you at all. I just don't feel like this discussion goes anywhere good... ;)

Everyone (including fanboys like me) already know AMD is behind. And seeing as my first video card was a 9800 Pro, I long for the glory days as well. Going on about them certainly doesn't help the situation or begin a fruitful discussion amongst peers. We've all witnessed what AMD has done and we all know the facts of the situation!

To give you a little of my "feelings" though....

It isn't like AMD is doing this on purpose. They've just made a lot of bad business decisions in recent years, but it IS starting to feel like they are righting the ship... I don't think Polaris is bad at all and Vega will truly tell us how far they are coming along. I believe Navi is where AMD will actually take back the performance crown (for at least a short while) and set the tone for the future beyond that.

These things don't happen over night. AMD spent years screwing up... It can only take years to turn it around.
 
0091/2 said:
You don't think their Vega GPU is worth looking at? It looks to me like things are slowly improving for AMD.
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Sure I'm looking forward to see what Vega brings to the table but after so many botched attempts in the last 4 years to really bring some hurt to Nvidia's high end offerings, I kinda lost hope.

Lets be totally honest here. What do you need to continuously be competitive in this high end field? Lots of R&D. What happens when your revenues are so low that you need to substantially cut into that? Nothing good, especially when your direct and only competitor has huge amounts of cash to invest into R&D. Not only that but they can out employ AMD with top end engineers.

Add to that the fact that AMD have cut substantial amounts to driver development in the recent past. Yes I know that RTG have now reinvested in that department but the damage has all rdy been done and it will take some time to recover.

Then theres the AMD's commitment to game developers. Again another field where AMD is sorely behind. Sure they have made inroads in the recent past but they are still behind.

All of this points to one thing. CASH!! AMD need loads of it if they want to compete on even ground with Nvidia and they aint gonna get enough if they continue to compete only in the low to medium end because these sectors DO NOT bring mind share. Nividia will still continue to sel more in the low to medium sectors due to this.

Add to that the extremely poor marketing. I'm tired of the lies, the exaggerations. Amd's marketing recently has been horrendous. Nvidia isnt innocent in this regard but at least they have top end products that deliver unlike AMD. Where is AMD's Titan ?!?! Where is it ???

So in the end, the people that were saying that Radeon would deliver 2nd tier products just like everything else AMD makes, were in fact right on the money and I really hate to say that but nothing AMD has created in the past 4 years, has been top tier in any category.

Oh yeah...they have the consoles.
 
SoCalMX70 said:
I actually don't necessarily agree or disagree with you at all. I just don't feel like this discussion goes anywhere good... ;)

Everyone (including fanboys like me) already know AMD is behind. And seeing as my first video card was a 9800 Pro, I long for the glory days as well. Going on about them certainly doesn't help the situation or begin a fruitful discussion amongst peers. We've all witnessed what AMD has done and we all know the facts of the situation!

To give you a little of my "feelings" though....

It isn't like AMD is doing this on purpose. They've just made a lot of bad business decisions in recent years, but it IS starting to feel like they are righting the ship... I don't think Polaris is bad at all and Vega will truly tell us how far they are coming along. I believe Navi is where AMD will actually take back the performance crown (for at least a short while) and set the tone for the future beyond that.

These things don't happen over night. AMD spent years screwing up... It can only take years to turn it around.
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Hey I had the 9800XT. That was truly an awesome card. Best card I ever had up till that time. :-) Next card after that was a 1900XTX which was also Top tier. Back then ATI were top dog. Unfortunately they didn't reinvest their gains properly so Nvidia were able to gain ground through their investments in the gaming community and developer relations. Nvidia had the better business plan and better marketing so even if their products were not as good at that time period, they still outsold ATI. Reason why ATI ended up being AMD/ATI:cry:

This thread is a rant thread first and foremost. Its a vent for me and maybe others who feel the need to talk about their disappointments in AMD.

I also, like many others long for those ATI glory days but Im just about fet up because Im not seeing anything from AMD that shows those days coming back anytime soon, especially not with how cash strapped AMD is atm. I still have hope, but that box called hope is getting smaller and smaller every day.

At this point the only thing I can think of that will bring back them glory days is for AMD to let go of its GPU business and hand it over to a group that seriously wants to compete and has the means and balls to do so!!

I dont think AMD is doing this on purpose. Far from it. They are just not concentrated enough on the gpu aspect of their business but more precisely the discrete portion of it unlike Nvidia. RTG came along recently and wants to change this but will it be enough? Will they have the funds that they need to compete on even grounds with the Goliath Nvidia ? Its hard to imagine that they will, considering their financial situation. Im just trying to be honest here in not sugar coating anything.
 
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I disagree with what you're saying based on what I posted above. There are indications that AMD hardware is actually very competitive. In DX12 and Vulcan Fury X is competitive with the 1070. So, all theorising aside I don't think AMD is actually behind in terms of hardware. It's the software implementation that has been holding them back.

I think this is what people are really overlooking. In newer games Vega will likely be very competitive with Nvidia's offerings and even by coming out 9 months later they ironically improve their positioning because more DX12 games will be available. Based on what tests actually show, it's to think Vega can't be competitive with Nvidia's parts.

The only way AMD is obviously behind is that they haven't managed to release a high end 14nm part yet. There's simply no denying that.
 
The Mac said:
Why is this thread even here?

an AMD sux thread from an nvidia owner...

delete please...
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LOL....Ive owned plenty of past ATI/AMD cards. The only reason I dont own one now is because at the time of purchase, nothing AMD had was faster.

You see over all I prefer AMD and hope that they will have the faster card at the time of purchase, but that unfortunately hasn't been happening lately...at least not since the 7970, which I did purchase when it launched.;)
 
Nagorak said:
I think AMD saved themselves by cornering the console's and getting Mantle adapted into DX12 and Vulkan. It effectively undercut Nvidia's great advantage in drivers. Based purely on hardware, Fury should be on par with the 1070 and 980 Ti, you just don't see it in DX11. So, anyway, their hardware is pretty competent and now with the software side turning around the next couple of years should look a lot better for the red team.
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I dunno Nag. Nvidia always seems able to pull a white lil bunny from that black hat when everyone thought they couldnt.

I agree that so far AMD seem to have a dx12 advantage but without a true high end card, that advantage is mute and the lack of DX12 games isnt helping either atm for what AMD have now, which isnt much.

If Amd is ever to truly compete with Nvidia, they will need to compete in every segment, low end to top end. In the driver department, in marketing, in the gaming community and in the game developing area too. For that they will need more investments than they have now. Untill that happens, Nvidia will always have the upper edge medium to long term, even with AMD's perceived DX12 advantage that wont last forever btw.
 
sandorski said:
If you want a Top End AMD card next week, you are out of luck. However, it has been a known fact for almost a year that Vega wasn't coming out until at least close to 2017. So any whining, and I have heard some recently on other forums, that AMD will never have a Top End card again is just nonsense.
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I haven't said that btw. They will have a top card, I just dont expect that card to be a Titan killer. Amd simply dont have what it takes to compete at the highest end against a Goliath like Nvidia. It sux, I know cause it pisses me off to no end to have ATI reduced to this. I would soo much love to see big Vega become the fastest single GPU card ever, but the chances of that happening with AMD's cash strapped situation arnt very high. :(
 
jimmt said:
Hmm I own my first Radeon since the X1800. That is 11yrs of only buying Nvidia based GPU's. They must be doing something rights as far as value and performance. I believe with the latest R400's series GPUs they are providing better performance per dollar than Nvidia. That is huge for consumer and revenue.

Their latest announcements in CPU architecture is very promising too. We might see this same economic of performance hit the CPU market (again).

I believe AMD is on the rise and the market appears to be agreeing.
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Thats not enough to over take Nvidia. How can people not understand this. Its not enough to have the best perf/$ to succeed as a company when your only other competitor is Nvidia. How many times have ATI/AMD produced a superior product only to be outsold by Nvidia??? Always !! ATI/AMD have never outsold Nvidia. Why ? Perception !! How do you change perception? Great products, great drivers, great developer relations and great marketing with the gaming community. All of that will bring brand recognition and eventually the tide will change but all of that takes loads of money. Guess what AMD lacks atm....
 
Fixated on 1000$ segment...
Why Opel(car manufacture) don't have 100.000 $ / euro racing car in their portfolio ?
Why SKoda don't produce 100.000 $ / euro cars ?

I named a few analogies...It's company decisions in that moment...
You do have a fury's at 300$+ level ... Vast majority that had deep pockets already got the gtx 1080
The company decided that AMD with RX480 is better than no AMD at all ... I do feel that the path of AMD from deep tragic situation to raising is intersting nevertheless.I am sure AMD will be much more powerfull than nvidia because when goes in such a deep s**t BUT have the power and solutions to comming out of it learns very valueable things that the so called "succesefull" competitor wouldn't touch...I see a wiser AMD comming out from this tragic years..
 
the op could very well be right, that being said amds bang for the buck still does well in my book. I look at my own setup and wonder. For what i paid for my x34 display and a furyX. Its barely $100 more than what the gsync version costs alone without a video card.
 
I don't know about anyone else but I buy today's cards for today's games, not for tomorrow's. Buy what works in your budget and plays the games you want to play with the quality settings and performance you want. I bought R9 290s for Trifire X when they came out because they were the best cards at the time. I replaced them with Tri-SLI GTX 980s when those came out and have had several single card configurations since. I wanted 60 fps w/max. settings @ 4k so I went with a Titan XP. I wanted a card that could handle 4k for flight sim which isn't as GPU-bound so I went with a 1070.

Have a goal. Find the best card(s) for the job and get it done.
 
ShaidarHaran said:
I don't know about anyone else but I buy today's cards for today's games, not for tomorrow's.
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So if you were to buy an Nvidia card today you would never use it to play any games not yet released? Here's the general pattern, AMD will be ~10% slower on release then over time their hardware will go up 1 or even 2 tiers of performance versus Nvidia. That's what I call a win. Way back when video cards were not so partisan future proofing was highly valued now for some reason people cheer when previous generation hardware falls off a performance cliff. Worse, they reward Nvidia by purchasing a new card then piss and moan that AMD can't compete.

One last that thing, people need to get over this notion that AMD should be going toe to toe with Nvidia in all sectors those days are gone and may never return. Just get over it.
 
Skynet said:
So if you were to buy an Nvidia card today you would never use it to play any games not yet released? Here's the general pattern, AMD will be ~10% slower on release then over time their hardware will go up 1 or even 2 tiers of performance versus Nvidia. That's what I call a win. Way back when video cards were not so partisan future proofing was highly valued now for some reason people cheer when previous generation hardware falls off a performance cliff. Worse, they reward Nvidia by purchasing a new card then piss and moan that AMD can't compete.

One last that thing, people need to get over this notion that AMD should be going toe to toe with Nvidia in all sectors those days are gone and may never return. Just get over it.
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Diversity means different aproach.Evolution.AMD was forced to go off-road in mentality if you wanted to survive so they experimented..Fury is the best example that came to mind..There were are others.
 
Skynet said:
So if you were to buy an Nvidia card today you would never use it to play any games not yet released? Here's the general pattern, AMD will be ~10% slower on release then over time their hardware will go up 1 or even 2 tiers of performance versus Nvidia. That's what I call a win. Way back when video cards were not so partisan future proofing was highly valued now for some reason people cheer when previous generation hardware falls off a performance cliff. Worse, they reward Nvidia by purchasing a new card then piss and moan that AMD can't compete.

One last that thing, people need to get over this notion that AMD should be going toe to toe with Nvidia in all sectors those days are gone and may never return. Just get over it.
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You can't tell by the number of cards I mentioned how frequently I buy them? My point was, I don't buy a card to keep it for 5 years and hope it still plays games adequately. I buy new cards as needed.
 
Skynet said:
So if you were to buy an Nvidia card today you would never use it to play any games not yet released? Here's the general pattern, AMD will be ~10% slower on release then over time their hardware will go up 1 or even 2 tiers of performance versus Nvidia. That's what I call a win. Way back when video cards were not so partisan future proofing was highly valued now for some reason people cheer when previous generation hardware falls off a performance cliff. Worse, they reward Nvidia by purchasing a new card then piss and moan that AMD can't compete.
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:up:
One last that thing, people need to get over this notion that AMD should be going toe to toe with Nvidia in all sectors those days are gone and may never return. Just get over it.
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maybe but I still think the bigger Vega will be fine and faster vs all current NVidia cards
and much cheaper :drool:

don't know what the big deal is my fury x's are just 14 months old, my 7970's & 290x's were both much older all most 2 years before the next top card hit the market

and at 389 I bet fury x is still selling well

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814202155&cm_re=fury_x-_-14-202-155-_-Product
........
now after Vega depends more on how well Zen does, if it sells well it will free up money for the GPU side as the CPU side is just eating money right now
and so far it does look like I very well maybe buying my first AMD CPU since my AM486, we will see


..........

now what's ruff is it looks like that both Vega and Zen may hit at the same time so full system builds
 
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bill dennison said:
:up:


maybe but I still think the bigger Vega will be fine and faster vs all current NVidia cards
and much cheaper :drool:

don't know what the big deal is my fury x's are just 14 months old, my 7970's & 290x's were both much older all most 2 years before the next top card hit the market


........
now after Vega depends more on how well Zen does, if it sells well it will free up money for the GPU side as the CPU side is just eating money right now
and so far it does look like I very well maybe buying my first AMD CPU since my AM486, we will see


..........

now what's ruff is it looks like that both Vega and Zen may hit at the same time so full system builds
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NV's been far more aggressive with new product releases than AMD. GK104->GK110(a)->GK110(b)->GM104->GM100->GP104->GP102

Every one of those chips is faster than its predecessor. AMD has Tahiti->Hawaii->Fiji during the same timeframe. Right now NV's fastest GPU, GP102, is between 70-120% faster than Fiji. That's not even in the same ballpark.
 
bill dennison said:
maybe but I still think the bigger Vega will be fine and faster vs all current NVidia cards
and much cheaper :drool:
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Going by history probably not, whatever AMD does with Vega Nvidia will one up them no matter how high they have to clock the GPU, how much it costs, how much power it draws or how many unicorn tears Jensen has to use.
 
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