Wo Long: Fallen Kingdom, another soulsbornekiroringnioh from Team Ninja

Just finished the demo.

Combat feels like a downgrade from Nioh which had quite a few numbers of combos to use to a more limited Dark Souls like button press skill system. Maybe it'll change, but right now it feels like Nioh trying to be Dark Souls. We'll see.

Deflection, which is one of the main new features in this one, doesn't seem very snappy and having it tied to the dodge button instead of the block button is a weird choice for me.

I'm probably going to still pick it up, but I liked the loot pinata nature of Nioh. Now the items are pretty boring and not very exciting. I'll probably play it and like it, but I'm not sure it's gonna have the re-playability of Nioh as the amount of "builds" seems very limited. Think they went a little too far trying to ape From Software with this one. But that's just me.
 
It’s possible they’re just trying to not be the same as everything else. I didn’t have much trouble with deflections once I got a handle on it, and it’s tied to whatever that meter is: good things happen = more attack power bad things happen lessens it, orange or blue. That was kind of weird.

I’m looking forward to it, just hope the finished product meets expectations, which are pretty high tbh because of Nioh 2.
 
Wo Long - Team Ninja (makers of Nioh)

So, news and reviews starting to come out... I'm excited. Bought a new controller as my last one started drifted after Midnight Suns. :)



https://www.ign.com/articles/wo-long...-final-preview
Wo Long: Fallen Dynasty might be an action game, but after playing through brand new areas for about five hours, I went away realizing that it innovates on the exploration loop in Soulsborne games more than anything else. While the game’s challenging combat is as stellar as you would expect from a Team Ninja game, it is the Morale Rank system that truly feels like it’s shaking things up.
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During my playtime through multiple stages I found myself naturally exploring the map in its entirety. I was fighting optional enemies that otherwise wouldn’t have been worth the risk. The Morale Rank system feels like a more natural way to gain strength, and gives less skilled players the chance to still have a more varied experience.

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While Wo Long is not that, a double jump and no stamina restraints make it feel somewhat similar in terms of flow. The sense of mobility differentiates it from Nioh, both in its exploration and combat. Stages have been designed with the double jump in mind, as cliffs and rooftops of houses and even giant temples can be climbed. Items can often be found in such places, and figuring out how to get there serves as a fun distraction from getting killed by demons.

At a certain point, an enemy was awaiting me at the top of a hill to roll down a thorned tree log. In typical Soulsborne fashion, I was killed by it before even realizing what had happened. On my next approach, I was a bit more careful and found a way to climb up to a roof next to it, which allowed me to advance from above and have my revenge with a plunging attack. If you approach an enemy slowly, you will often be able to stealth kill it as well. Combined with Wo Long’s verticality, this allows careful players to eliminate weaker enemies without having to fight them, much like in FromSoftware’s Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice.

In terms of combat, you can trample enemies by jumping on them, and the double jump can be used to leap over an enemy’s attack. Without any stamina gauge, running around an enemy can be a valid tactic, and running away is easier. The key mechanic of combat however, is Deflect. Deflect is triggered by pressing the dodge button at the right time. It parries an enemy’s attack while lowering the enemy’s spirit. Once the enemy’s Spirit is decreased significantly, it is stunned and open for a powerful Fatal Strike. If this sounds familiar from Sekiro too, that’s because, well, it is! But that’s hardly a bad thing when it’s this well executed.
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What makes Wo Long unique is how it borrows Sekiro’s parry mechanic and mixes that up with Nioh’s diversity. I’ve been able to try out about half of the 13 melee weapon types Wo Long has to offer. Individual weapons do not just come with different stats, but also have their own Martial Arts (powerful moves that consume the Spirit gauge). This means that even the same weapon type can feel significantly different from weapon to weapon. For example, I first obtained a staff with a Martial Art that has the protagonist jump away after attacking, which is useful if you want to maintain your distance. The next staff I found had two Martial Arts, one that charges at the enemy with a succession of attacks, and one that unleashes a slow but heavy attack. It’s easy to see how different Martial Arts can result in vastly different playstyles for the same weapon type.

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Play it your way


Before rounding off this article, it’s worth mentioning that Team Ninja is putting a great amount of effort into the game’s customization options. The character creator is just as robust as Nioh 2’s, with added parts to match the Chinese historical setting. The flags you raise at checkpoints can also be customized, with a wide array of different colors and Chinese characters to choose from.
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https://www.pcgamesn.com/wo-long-fal...ty/hands-on-pc

As I start out, this feels like a worryingly stripped-back version of the broad toolkit present almost from the get-go in Nioh. Gone are the weapon stances and ki pulses, there’s no weapon familiarity to build up, no Onmyo magic or ninja skills to unlock. After all the time I spent juggling menus and scrutinising statistics in Nioh 2, there was a definite feeling of “is this it?” as I began my way through the two-chapter preview build.​

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Imperial martial arts inform character progression as well. Rather than dumping points into traits like strength, dexterity, and wisdom, Wo Long’s stats system is built around the five elements or energy states of Taoism: earth, wood, fire, water, and metal. Boosting affinity for any of these results in bonuses to associated combat actions like recovery speed and the amount of spirit I’ll use in a deflection, but they also open up wizardry spells that I can map to my controller’s face buttons and unleash in battle: fireballs, spears of ice, rocky avalanches, and more.

You can specialise or generalise however you like: you’re given a point to use in each school at certain experience thresholds, and they’re non-transferable. As you move up each elemental tree, spells require more and more points invested in their specific element, so to unlock the most powerful magic, you’ll most likely need to concentrate your levels into one or perhaps two elements.
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However, the bonus morale I’ve picked up from killing monsters and bandits evaporates when I’m killed – unless I can make it back to the baddie who’s slain me and beat them in a rematch. This can be tricky, however: killing heroes boosts an enemy’s morale, so they tend to be tougher in round two.

This could be pretty crushing, but there’s a safety net: on death, I only lose morale I’ve gathered beyond a certain baseline, which is established by the number of battle flags I’ve put up around the level. The lesson here is clear: I want to explore everywhere before heading through the gate and taking on the area’s boss, unless I want to fight at a steep disadvantage.

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By the time I’m through Chapter II, I’m relieved: sure, Wo Long is noticeably simpler than Nioh 2, but there’s plenty here to sink my teeth into. Each weapon I pick up – spears, guandao, twin swords, sabres, and more – has its own special moves to learn, there are five magic trees to explore, and there’s always some gigantic, twisted monstrosity to square off with over the next hill. As much fun as I’ve had with Nioh 2, I find that half my time in the game is spent managing my character and his inventory, and for better or for worse, that’s mostly gone in Wo Long.
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theshadowcult said:

Some gameplay from fextralife.
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Looks like they “borrowed” more than just the parry from Sekiro. I am a fan of Nioh and Nioh 2, but I think I’ll wait for a good sale for this one. The combat (PS5 demo) and a couple of other things left me feeling a bit meh about the game.
 
Lazy8s said:
Looks like they “borrowed” more than just the parry from Sekiro. I am a fan of Nioh and Nioh 2, but I think I’ll wait for a good sale for this one. The combat (PS5 demo) and a couple of other things left me feeling a bit meh about the game.
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Worse than Elden Ring combat?
 
koralis said:
Worse than Elden Ring combat?
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I’m not sure what Elden Ring has to do with it to be honest. Nioh 2 is a better comparison. To answer your question though, the souls type combat in ER is about 10 years obsolete. Ashes of war made up for it a bit, but Fromsoft dropped the ball on melee imo.

Nioh 2’s combat was nearly perfect while melee in the demo felt clunky to me. It didn’t flow like I felt it should. Not everyone will agree with me, and that’s fine.

On the other hand, I beleive Fromsoft wanted players to get away from pure melee based combat. Certain new abilities + ashes of war could easily destroy the worst bosses.

Nioh 2 went the other route where you were God mode by the end of the vanilla game.

just my thoughts on the matter.
 
Lazy8s said:
I’m not sure what Elden Ring has to do with it to be honest. Nioh 2 is a better comparison. To answer your question though, the souls type combat in ER is about 10 years obsolete. Ashes of war made up for it a bit, but Fromsoft dropped the ball on melee imo.
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Because the Martial Arts tied to the weapons I was reading about seem almost exactly like Ashes of War (except I'd wager a lot less clunky)

It also matters, because you bought and enjoyed Elden Ring day 1, even with its dated combat. Not sure exactly why you'd punish Team Ninja when the combat is still probably better than Elden Ring's. Unless you're saying it isn't?


Clearly they started from scratch, not making a Nioh 3. Probably closer to Nioh 1. Wo Long 2, will expand on it, etc.


Now, if you just didn't like it for some reason, and you DID enjoy Elden Ring more, then I understand. I haven't played the demo.. I have no basis of comparison.
 
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*Punish* Team Ninja? :lol:

My friend, I am Way past the point where I feel the need to justify gaming preferences to anyone lol. Enjoy the game.
 
Such an exciting game. Glad it is on gamepass on day 1. Will download. Play for 1 hour. Uninstall.
 
Lots of stuff to read. For those that played the demo though, indications that they toned things down a bit afterwards based on the data gathered.


https://www.ign.com/articles/why-you...sses-ign-first

According to Team Ninja’s Demo Feedback Report, in the full game Deflect will be easier to use and the process of using the recovery item Dragon's Cure Pot will be shortened. This means that Zhang Liang’s second phase might be a little bit more manageable than it was in the demo. We’re pretty certain that he will still be a serious challenge though. This is a Team Ninja game, after all.

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“We thought that it would be interesting to focus on Aoye’s straw rain-cape-like hair and mix it with the scary image of long hair in Japanese horror movies,” explains Hirayama. “We came up with the concept of making Aoye’s hair undulate like a tentacle, and make it use its hair for everything it does.”

While it often lays itself open to attack, each of Aoye’s strikes are heavy and can be fatal. Aoye also has an attack that spreads ice throughout the battle area, which makes it necessary for the player to fight carefully within a more confined environment.

Hirayama shares a strategy tip: "In line with the five elements of conflict, ice can be counteracted by earth, so you can use Earth Phase Wizardry Spells to eliminate the frozen area."

Of course, these are only a few examples of Wo Long’s many bosses, but it’s enough to see the variation of terror that Team Ninja is attempting to bring to the table.

“Bosses are the toughest enemies in action games, so we want to make sure they are challenging in a way that makes sense to the player,” says Hirayama. “When defeated, the player should feel a tremendous sense of accomplishment. With power and intensity in all of their motions, we made sure that each boss feels unique. We hope that players will enjoy the fast flow of attack and defense that occurs as a result of Wo Long’s Deflect and Spirit systems."
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Demo feedback breakdown
https://teamninja-studio.com/wolong/us/demo/feedback.html
 
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New demo coming before release. Maybe an intro chapter if the save game imports on final release? Part of that intro grants the helmet mentioned?


https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/wo-long-fallen-dynasty-demo-091701924.html

Team Ninja and Koei Temco have announced that a Wo Long: Fallen Dynasty demo will release on all platforms later this month, and players will get some free DLC for completing it. The game is scheduled for release on March 3, 2023.​

As expected, players’ save data will carry over to the full game should they wish to purchase it. And those who complete the demo will receive the “Crouching Dragon Helmet” for use in the full game.
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koralis said:
New demo coming before release. Maybe an intro chapter if the save game imports on final release? Part of that intro grants the helmet mentioned?
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It's available on Steam if anyone wants try it out. Sounds like the first two chapters are available.

Download it this morning, made a character (love the creators), and have been trying to get a sense of it. Enjoy the sneak attacks. Need to get better at the deflects.
 
koralis said:
It's available on Steam if anyone wants try it out. Sounds like the first two chapters are available.

Download it this morning, made a character (love the creators), and have been trying to get a sense of it. Enjoy the sneak attacks. Need to get better at the deflects.
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Welllll? Its been ten minutes, how is it? Tell me!
 
theshadowcult said:
Welllll? Its been ten minutes, how is it? Tell me!
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Ok, wrapped up the demo. Not going to lie... the opening is rough. Not a lot of options yet due to limited weapon sets, and boss battles basically devolve into deflect games, though you can do spirit attacks to get there too. Doing normal damage for bosses is pointless, but the traditional hack and slash works great for the fodder. The physical attacks amount to basically just a "builder" to generate ki that you spend with Martial Arts, Spells, or Spirit attacks. The first boss is an SOB, but eventually got "good enough" at deflecting to survive the battles, not dominate them like some people are able to. Maybe over time I'll get better/. The riposte timing was always a weakness of mine in Nioh too.

By the time I got into the second stage though, it felt more like Nioh. Not Nioh 2 with the fancy stances, ki management, etc, which I think are good additions to the game as opposed to forcing you to spam attack to get power. I wouldn't be surprised if some of that extra level of complexity came in a DLC for post-game or saved for a Wo Long 2.

I had a lot more luck with polearms in deflecting (but I'm not sure if it's real or my imagination) and being able to hit bosses that want to run away due to the extra reach. slower though, so if you get surrounded, not great. The Martial Arts on the weapons can vary. I've seen 3 on my polearm I think. One sucks in my opinion (upward cut.. single target, close range), the other is ok (an overhead leap), the last I was loving... a cusinart of blades hitting anything in front of you multiple times. So, the initial wepon you see might not be the version you like the most. Would be shocked if they didn't implement the blacksmith options to move things around, etc, at some point in the game. The perks on gear are laid in the the same fashion. I did meet and use a blacksmith to upgrade my primary weapon once.


Regarding spells... they just don't last that long. Could be that some of the Divine Beasts and/or gear will help alleviate that, and possible that duration scales with element level, and being intro-only there's just not that many points to go around. the minimal duration increase from Wood stat doesn't amount to much yet. That said, I underestimated the frost bolt... that helped slow down the demon-boar significantly, making it easier to deal with. Damage was pathetic at this low level, but the Chill effect was nice.

The combo of Wood + Water/Fire for a mage type bolt-slinger might work pretty well. Wood has a spell that lets you restore negative qi (or whatever it is that they're calling it) at a faster rate so that you can conceivably pump out a stream of damage before needing to engage. I was playing with that a bit during the boar fight. Would not have worked during the General fight... he's just too in-your-face to be wasting spell-power and time on minimal utility.

Oh... the OTHER change from Nioh. spells can be recast an unlimited number of times if you have the juice for it. No "slots." via the talismans



Assessment: If you'd asked me during level 1, I'd probably tell you it was disappointing, and I was thinking hard about whether it'd be worth playing. By the end of the demo though, I was feeling better about things. I was getting better (not good) at deflections, and options were opening up.



looking great so far, but another 70 bucks game
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Steam US has it at $60 (at least as a preorder?)
 
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