New Toyota Supra

Mahjik said:
Who is he?

However, looking at his channel:

  • Here's Why This is Ford's Biggest Mistake in Years
  • Here's Why Brand New GM Trucks are Breaking Down
  • Why Not to Buy a New Honda
  • Here's Why This New Jeep is Terrible

So, his channel is basically just about trying to poke holes at everything. I'm no sure that's the best channel for objective journalism.
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Never said he was about objective about anything, but he actually has been accused of being bought by toyota in the past because he always says "toyota or bust" which is why I found the video amusing. :lol:

But he is correct that the car isn't selling worth a damn, is overpriced, and there are better options in the same price range. It really is just a BMW with the Toyota logo slapped on it.
 
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xCLAVEx said:
It really is just a BMW with the Toyota logo slapped on it.
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That's one of the most uneducated comments in this thread....

Clockwork said:
It's a pretty old article (5 years ago) but this is all that really needs to be said about Scotty Kilmer...

"This Emmy-Award Winning YouTube Mechanic Is Full Of ****"
https://jalopnik.com/this-emmy-award-winning-youtube-mechanic-is-full-of-shi-1696524549
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Yea... That article pretty much sums what I noticed with the 2-3 videos I "tried" to watch of his...
 
Mahjik said:
That's one of the most uneducated comments in this thread....
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Can you prove otherwise? Perhaps you aren't really aware of how much BMW is actually in this car. Everything I am reading about it confirms what I've said. Hell, BMW just issued a recall a few months back for the car (only 7 of them) for improper welds. BMW did, not Toyota. Third time apparently and the car only just came out.

2020 Toyota Supra subject to another BMW recall
This time, 245 Supra, BMW Z4 and 330i models need to be checked for the possibility of failing headlights.

It's kind of important to have working headlights.

Toyota
This world is a weird one, and bundled into the weirdness is the fact BMW builds the Toyota Supra. That much you surely have known, but with production responsibility comes the need to execute recalls when needed.

For the third time, BMW has recalled the 2020 Toyota Supra, this time for the possibility of failing headlights. In documents BMW submitted to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, the automaker said 177 Supras need to go back to the dealer. In total, there are 245 cars affected; the BMW Z4 and 330i make up the other portion. The former is, of course, the Supra's platform mate.

The cars may have headlight control units that could outright fail, and if they do, drivers may lose headlight functionality. Obviously that's a problem, and the lack of headlights increases the risk of a crash. Dealers will need to check the control unit out and replace it, and all work will be performed for free.

BMW first recalled Toyota's sports car back in September, though the recall was limited to just seven cars. Unfortunately, the recall said some of those cars needed to be replaced outright due to bad welds. A second recall came for backup cameras in October.

For the headlight issue, owners will receive notices starting Jan. 17. Keep an eye on the mailbox.

https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/2020-toyota-supra-recall-bmw/
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Yes, yes, we know. The new Toyota Supra is really a BMW underneath. There's no need to continue acting shocked about it.

https://www.caranddriver.com/review...604/2020-bmw-z4-m40i-vs-2020-toyota-gr-supra/
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The best way to get to the bottom of this story is not to write tweets to Toyota, but to actually buy one and take it apart. The crew at Daily Driven Exotics did just that; they bought the cheapest Supra they could find and decided the red paint needed to be wrapped. Just so the color gets into every nook, everything "needs" to be taken apart.

Well, it obviously doesn't need to, but that's how you expose all the BMW logos, and there's a lot of them, much more than even we thought. Some of them are rather embarrassing too. Sure, we know about the 3-liter engine being the same as the Z4, including the turbo and all the electronics. But why aren't the brakes or suspension arms from Toyota?

A BMW logo stamped into the Supra's exhaust muffler is also kind of embarrassing, but we can live with the battery since it goes with all the BMW electronics.

The cosmetics are mostly done by Toyota - bumpers, door and fenders. However, you will still see BMW logos on the chassis bits holding those parts in place. And you're probably aware, most of the interior is slightly old BMW tech, like you got in the recently retired 3 Series, which means the Z4's interior is more advanced. Ironically, nobody gives a hoot about that car, even though they're built together in Austria.

https://www.autoevolution.com/news/...-s-fraud-with-dozens-of-bmw-logos-138394.html
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By now everyone knows that the new 2020 Toyota Supra was more than just co-developed with BMW—it’s pretty much entirely a BMW inside and under its sheetmetal. That’s readily apparent when you’re greeted with an iDrive screen as soon as you step inside.

https://jalopnik.com/here-s-where-toyota-and-bmw-parted-ways-on-the-new-supr-1831780403
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Seems the only thing in this car that is Toyota is the cosmetics. Everything else is BMW. I'm curious to see how many miles the few people that bought one get before it starts to fall apart, only time will tell but since it's a BMW...

It looks like it's a fun car (if you have $40-50k to blow) but make no mistake, it's not a true Supra.
 
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Yes, BMW "made" the chassis as that was the whole point of the agreement. However, the engineering was on both sides (most of it on the Toyota side). Toyota actually purchased several Porsche Caymans to test against as that was their benchmark for handling.

It's not a "BMW engineered" car. It is a joint engineered platform with BMW providing the end result of that joint design.
 
Mahjik said:
Yes, BMW "made" the chassis as that was the whole point of the agreement. However, the engineering was on both sides (most of it on the Toyota side). Toyota actually purchased several Porsche Caymans to test against as that was their benchmark for handling.

It's not a "BMW engineered" car. It is a joint engineered platform with BMW providing the end result of that joint design.
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Explaining further isn't going to help a person who refuses to understand, unfortunately.
 
I still think about how nice it would be to own a 2020. I'm wondering if Toyota will ease up the ball&chain tied to taking one for a test-drive at their dealerships once the 2021 models begin rolling out and they have inventory to get rid of.

The car is absolutely gorgeous and a head-turner on the road. The motor is fantastic and capable of putting down great power before needing to be built. However, it's just a lot of money imo. I would rather spend less for a used vehicle. It's a hard pill to swallow taking a loan out for a vehicle now that I own both my vehicles and have no car payments.

Selling the Subaru and buying a C5 Z06 in cash or C6 Z06 with a minimal ($5-8k) loan just seems like a much smarter purchase.

Don't mean to make this about me, but something that has been on my mind lately. I've been watching the price of C5 Z06 slowly rising from the $16k range to $18-22k over the past 3 months; not sure if that has to do with COVID, summer around the corner, or what..
 
I'll bet that as the 2021 models come out, some people will be dropping the 2020's for good prices (as a buyer). As for whether a C5/C6 Vette would be a smarter choice, there is no such thing as a "smart sports car choice". ;) Sports cars are not something you buy as a smart use of money. They are things you buy as you have disposable income to use on something fun that excites you. Whatever excites "you" that you can afford, buy that! :)
 
In terms of what's a "smarter" purchase, I'm referring more to what would be a better purchase for what my goals for the vehicle are. The older Vette's just seem to fit that plan the best. Power, not heavy, and a motor I can work on/learn on.

I just really, really love the look of the Supra and that makes me want to go against better judgement ;)
 
I'm older so I've had my fill of going for cars based on power (although I never really did that much when younger). Not saying that's a bad thing, but if it's not a car that I would look back at after I've parked it, then it's not providing the right feelings for me. That means I'm probably not buying what's popular, powerful, or smart. The 4C is a good example of that... 240HP these days is pretty laughable although it is light and I will bump it up to almost 300. Still, it's not going to run down a Vette but I don't care. There are only a handful of them in the US so it doesn't get lost in a crowed and I can't stop looking at it. The Jag is the same.
 
One of the main factors that sways me towards the Vette is that with an older vehicle I'm not going to be as worried about exterior damage if I take the car to a track; the Vette will do very well for that purpose as would the Supra, but the Supra will be a very new vehicle that I'd be beating the hell out of. Factory warranty, etc .. these are things I will be stuck dealing with, which is what happened with the Subaru until I eventually said **** it and tuned the damn thing, warranty be damned.

Won't have to worry about that with a 2001-2008 lol
 
Clockwork said:
Explaining further isn't going to help a person who refuses to understand, unfortunately.
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Oh I see we are still acting like it's a toyota right? Sorry, my bad (typical, attack the messenger when you cannot debate the facts).

It is unfortunate that a person is unable to acknowledge the obvious, no matter the fanboy feeling. I don't get what is so hard to acknowledge that it is a BMW despite any "joint" venture toyota might have had with them. They even specify in the article that Toyota only designed the aesthetics (bumpers doors and fenders) while Bmw made all the parts that matter. Gee, sounds like Toyota really put their all into it, especially considering it's nearly an exact copy of an already made BMW, just with more power. The car looks nice and it has a decent amount of power, but it's no Supra.


Can you prove otherwise or should we just skip the foreplay and move on to insults?

EDIT: Yikes I just noticed it only has a 3 year 36,000 mile warranty. That's horrible.
 
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Nunz said:
One of the main factors that sways me towards the Vette is that with an older vehicle I'm not going to be as worried about exterior damage if I take the car to a track; the Vette will do very well for that purpose as would the Supra, but the Supra will be a very new vehicle that I'd be beating the hell out of. Factory warranty, etc .. these are things I will be stuck dealing with, which is what happened with the Subaru until I eventually said **** it and tuned the damn thing, warranty be damned.

Won't have to worry about that with a 2001-2008 lol
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Taking a car to a track doesn't void a warranty. IMO, you want to beat on a car while it's under warranty so things can be replaced without using your own dimes. ;)

If you are talking about road courses and not drag strip, the other thing to keep in mind is consumables. Vettes run pretty wide tires compared to most cars, which means they are not cheap. The serious track Vette guys I know spend about $2k at least a month on consumables to track their cars (tires, brake pads, gas, etc). The faster you go, the more it costs. These are some of the reasons why I picked the S2000 to race and now do some tracking with the Alfa 4C. Lower powered lighter cars which are far easier on consumables (which means easier on my wallet). I can do a lot more events for less money.
 
Nunz said:
I still think about how nice it would be to own a 2020. I'm wondering if Toyota will ease up the ball&chain tied to taking one for a test-drive at their dealerships once the 2021 models begin rolling out and they have inventory to get rid of.

The car is absolutely gorgeous and a head-turner on the road. The motor is fantastic and capable of putting down great power before needing to be built. However, it's just a lot of money imo. I would rather spend less for a used vehicle. It's a hard pill to swallow taking a loan out for a vehicle now that I own both my vehicles and have no car payments.

Selling the Subaru and buying a C5 Z06 in cash or C6 Z06 with a minimal ($5-8k) loan just seems like a much smarter purchase.

Don't mean to make this about me, but something that has been on my mind lately. I've been watching the price of C5 Z06 slowly rising from the $16k range to $18-22k over the past 3 months; not sure if that has to do with COVID, summer around the corner, or what..
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You are smart to wait. Prices of cars will be dropping very soon and quickly as nobody is buying any right now. So if you are in the market you could get some hella deals soon.
 
xCLAVEx said:
Can you prove otherwise or should we just skip the foreplay and move on to insults?
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You seem to confuse/combine manufacturing and design as the same thing which it's not. The two companies designed the platform together. Outside of the platform, everything else was designed separately. From a "design" standpoint, it was a joint effort. The manufacturing fell heavily on the BMW side for the platform and other components Toyota decided to reuse:

https://jalopnik.com/here-s-where-toyota-and-bmw-parted-ways-on-the-new-supr-1831780403

“The fundamental platform development was jointly, together,” Haushalter said. “We decided, what does the track width need to be, what does the wheelbase need to be, to give us the best balance of sports car handling and overall packaging.”

After that, he said, “Then we broke away when it came to styling the car. We did all of that. All the wind tunnel testing, all the clay modeling was done on the Toyota side. Obviously they’re providing the powertrain and transmission to us, but the final tuning was all done by Toyota in Japan.”

So why then did we see the test mules hanging out together?

“For some aspects—cold weather testing, hot weather testing—it made sense to do the cars at the same time,” Haushalter said. “They’re sharing things like air conditioning componentry and cooling systems. When you’re spending a lot of money putting cars on the road to do that kind of stuff, testing them together makes sense.”
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There are also videos on YT showing the engine going through Toyota testing. As parts failed, they were sent to Japan for inspection to understand the failure and then sent back to Germany for redesign. In short, I think you are either:

A) Misinterpreting some of those articles
B) Reading click-bait articles
 
Mahjik said:
You seem to confuse/combine manufacturing and design as the same thing which it's not. The two companies designed the platform together. Outside of the platform, everything else was designed separately. From a "design" standpoint, it was a joint effort. The manufacturing fell heavily on the BMW side for the platform and other components Toyota decided to reuse:

https://jalopnik.com/here-s-where-toyota-and-bmw-parted-ways-on-the-new-supr-1831780403
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So you are saying, in theory, that the engine should last a good while if Toyota was testing it so rigorously? If so, then why aren't they confident in it and only offering a paltry 36k mile warranty?
 
xCLAVEx said:
So you are saying, in theory, that the engine should last a good while if Toyota was testing it so rigorously? If so, then why aren't they confident in it and only offering a paltry 36k mile warranty?
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That's what most Toyota's have, including the '86. That's just their thing for the "basic" part... This is their standard warranty and the powertrain is longer:

Basic Warranty - 36 months/36,000 miles
Powertrain - 60 months/60,000 miles
Corrosion Perforation - 60 months/unlimited miles
Restraint Systems - 60 months/60,000 miles
 
Mahjik said:
That's what most Toyota's have, including the '86. That's just their thing for the "basic" part... This is their standard warranty and the powertrain is longer:

Basic Warranty - 36 months/36,000 miles
Powertrain - 60 months/60,000 miles
Corrosion Perforation - 60 months/unlimited miles
Restraint Systems - 60 months/60,000 miles
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Didn't they use to have longer warranties awhile back? I honestly cannot remember. I do know Nissan has a 100k mile warranty on many of their cars at dealerships around these parts (though their cars are trash) which, oddly, shows confidence in their crappy cars. I wonder why Toyota doesn't do that (maybe they don't have to because, Toyota?).
 
xCLAVEx said:
Didn't they use to have longer warranties awhile back? I honestly cannot remember. I do know Nissan has a 100k mile warranty on many of their cars at dealerships around these parts (though their cars are trash) which, oddly, shows confidence in their crappy cars. I wonder why Toyota doesn't do that (maybe they don't have to because, Toyota?).
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Honestly, it's not something I've ever tracked but it's probably dependent on the vehicle type. Most of the vehicles I purchase (sports cars) are generally around 3 years for warranties. The Nissan GTR is 3 year as well.
 
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