erek
New member
"The Xbox360 has unique features including memory export that can enable DX10-class functionality."
and
"DX10 visuals can be replicated on the Xbox360"
Futuremark Vantage DirectX 11
- Thread starter erek
- Start date
and
"DX10 visuals can be replicated on the Xbox360"
acroig
Just another Troll
"The Xbox360 has unique features including memory export that can enable DX10-class functionality."
and
"DX10 visuals can be replicated on the Xbox360"
Has any game to date done so?
erek
New member
Yup! WiC (World In Conflict) does
"Petter Sydow, VP of Development at Swedish developer Massive Entertainment, revealed that the team has managed to replicate "some" of the DirectX 10 effects seen in the PC "
Sydow said: "At this point we've managed to replicate some of the effects. [..] Nearly all of our DX 10 features are possible to do on the consoles"
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acroig
Just another Troll
Because one game can replicate some DX10 effects on the 360 you're saying the 360 is a DX10 console?
erek
New member
because "DX 10 features are possible to do on the consoles" i am saying it is a DX10Plus-class console
Treeckcold57
New member
Right on...But it just near DX10 level but it's still DX9 level and even its highest DX9 level though. But don't am I right, acroig?
erek
New member
didn't you read my posts about WiC? its DX10Plus-class
Dx10 features are also possible to do on a dx9 card, does that make a dx9 card a dx10plus card?
erek
New member
its sufficient to warrant a "DX10+ Capable" badge
[but you know they won't do that for older cards because they want to sell newer cards]Argoon1981
New member
its sufficient to warrant a "DX10+ Capable" badge
Hey erek can i ask how old are you? Want to know if you are being sarcastic or if you are just naive.
For your information Xenos is a dx9 card that is capable of some dx10 effects so you could call it a dx9+ card and not a dx10+.
Dx10 is really different from dx9 internally but that don't prevent some effects to be realized on dx9 by using other methods. (but in the end it will be less efficient and accurate) Only when a effect require the support of a particular hardware them the lack of it will truly prevent a effect to work.
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erek
New member
quarter of a century old, and i really think if they have even more time that they could encompass the entire dx10 feature-set even if with some software emulation being done...
"DirectX 10 graphical effects are possible on the consoles, given enough time and resources, the developer of the Xbox 360 and PS3 versions of PC RTS World In Conflict has said."
i'm privvy to suggest that an entire console could get the "DX10+ Capable" Badge
Argoon1981
New member
ANYTHING can be made with enough time and resources . As i said, you can do dx10 features on a dx9 card but NOT in the same way or efficiency as a true dx10/10.1 GPU. You can also simulate in software (CPU) ANY effect even dx11 features albeit mooore slowly. Consoles can do dx10/10.1 i will go even to dx 11 visual effects, but have they the power to cope with them?
Is just like a low end dx10 card, it can render dx10 code and effects but at unplayable frame rates.
Skynet
New member
Exactly. My system is currently capable of rendering the entire visual effects of the up coming movie Avatar, same quality. The bad news is, the render queue says time to completion: 300 years.
hordaktheman
New member
I think some of you are confusing DirectX as an API with Direct3D compliancy as a hardware specification. Just because the Xenos is not D3D11 compliant on the hardware level, it doesn't follow that the entire system is unable to use the API. The 360 runs its own DirectX derivative that has been continuously updated alongside the PC revisions to now support many parts of the DX10 and 11 featuresets.
The 360 has probably done more to push DX10 (as an API) than it has hindered. Half the DX10 enabled games are multiplatform.
The 360 has probably done more to push DX10 (as an API) than it has hindered. Half the DX10 enabled games are multiplatform.
Argoon1981
New member
You are not talking about me for sure them.
And i'm not aware that xenus is capable of supporting dx11 Compute shaders, shared memory and tessellation (dx11 version) when the R670 a evolution of the xenus gpu can't. Or are the consoles GPU radically different from PC hardware that they can update them to new API's by firmware?
And for your information IFAIK theres not one proclaimed dx10 game on consoles they are all dx9 or OpenGL (ps3 and wii) and only the PC version sometimes supports both dx9 and dx10.
And i will say it again consoles can SIMULATE dx10 or even dx11 effects by other means (ex: software) but not using dx10 nor dx11 native code.
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hordaktheman
New member
Again, the API is separate from D3D hardware compliancy. The terms in which you are using DX9 and 10 don't apply because they are Windows-centric compliancy standards that have nothing to do with the consoles. Whether a game uses a DX9 or DX10 render path has nothing to do with the hardware features used but the API. The only difference is that the PC version refuses to run under the latter API unless compliancy is met, and wholly regardless of whether the game actually uses any of the D3D10-only hardware features. A game could be using DX8 level shader lengths, but if it's coded under the DX10 API then it simply won't run without DX10 compliant hardware. The consoles are exempt from that compliancy because they don't need to adhere to any such standard. Hence, the API can be upgraded as far as the hardware allows without worrying about compatibility.
There are actually quite a few console games that use these DX10-hybrid render paths. All of Capcom's games do exactly that and as do Far Cry 2 and HAWX. They may not use DX10 level hardware features but they do use the API equivalent. They simply wouldn't be possible on the 360 in their current form otherwise on account of memory usage.
The latest revision of the 360 API does support some of the features you mention, by the way. Shared memory, multi-threaded rendering and many others have been confirmed by Microsoft themselves. Some would be DX11 compliant (if it were PC hardware) and others wouldn't.
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Argoon1981
New member
http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3153097
http://digg.com/gaming_news/No_DirectX_10_for_Xbox_360
http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/video/display/20070115233110.html
It may not be a dx 9 API on consoles in PC terms but is a dx9 like one as Carmack said "with similar feature-set".
All using a dx9+ render on consoles. Only on PC they have a dx10 render.
link please ?
And we are way off topic by now.
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hordaktheman
New member
These are all old articles. The 360 API has since been upgraded many times over.
They wouldn't fit within the consoles' 512mb of RAM if that were so. DX9 is far more wasteful of memory, and all these games use 700mb+ under DX9 compared to under 400mb in DX10 mode.
You can test them for yourself if you have the means. And I do want to stress that we're talking about APIs here and not shader models. There is no difference in image quality for most of these games, only in the render paths and memory usage.
You can find a number of links here. There are far too many to list, but here's a sample:
Threads are meant to go off topic
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Argoon1981
New member
Ok i admit that you are making me think this twice. You seam to be more update about the xbox360 API them me. I'm in reality a PC gamer only, so console updates are the last thing on my list to know.
What i find strange is how ATI/Microsoft are making features run in a GPU hardware 4 generations old but on a evolution of the xenus GPU and 2 generation R670 (HD 3800) GPU they say they don't work! I smell something here and is not my gases.
What i find strange is how ATI/Microsoft are making features run in a GPU hardware 4 generations old but on a evolution of the xenus GPU and 2 generation R670 (HD 3800) GPU they say they don't work! I smell something here and is not my gases.