hazindu
New member
Gotta love dice rolls. My first playthrough, I tried to shoot a bullnetch with a bow from point blank, and I was like, "How T.F. do you miss that?!"
Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim
- Thread starter DeathKnight
- Start date
NIGELG
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This way you will hardly, if ever, need to use melee attacks which look dumb in this game.
Unlike later DUMBED DOWN Elder Scrolls games Master Conjurers can summon a small army if they level up properly as a mage in Morrowind.
And Illusion Masters can use all sorts of neat tricks too.
theshadowcult
New member
I never could understand how people could have a problem with the rpg in a ****ing rpg game...
NIGELG
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azalea
CS:GOne to hell
Have to agree, because Morrowind's main quest line seemed so epic. Instead of Oblivion onwards which had "go there do this", we had "go there to all of these places and do all these things in the order you want". Even if the end goals were the same, how you get there had less linearity.
JohnnyFlash
Professional Lurker
Role playing does not require dice rolls. BG, NWN, DA all are great with dice roll based combat, but in real time first-person it just doesn't work well. It tries to do two things well and fails at both.
Mass Effect did a great job with this, where you can pause to plan out power usages and squad movements, but the core combat was still skill based.
theshadowcult
New member
not only did it come out 5 years later after a lot of 3d tech had advanced massively, but it also came out after kotor, and the earlier bg games, so they had the experience behind it, and the chance to change things up.
Morrowind came off the backbone of daggefall, and games like might and magic, or realms of arkania, arx fatalis, etc. Morrowind was ****ing amazing when it came out.
JohnnyFlash
Professional Lurker
I agree that it was amazing for the time, it just hasn't aged well. The simplification of the stats and quests in Oblivion was unfortunate, but the changes in combat were massive improvements.
It's definitely a difficult balance in first-person RPGs. On one hand, if the combat is reflex-based, then it does take the away from the character development. Since Daggerfall, the games were always about getting better by using the abilities.
But on the other hand, it does kind of feel janky when you feel like you've made physical contact, but you missed because you failed a dice-roll or stat-check. And if the only progression is doing more damage when you hit, then it doesn't really feel like progression.
For The Elder Scrolls games, I never really thought of it all that much (but maybe that's because I never used arrows). But in the Bethesda Fallout games, where the game feels more like an FPS, I thought the shooting being so stat-based did feel a bit off. I remember having a similar feeling with STALKER, where early in the game you would aim, account for the bullet drop, then click to shoot and your bullet would fly 10 feet to the left of where you aimed.
I guess the bottom line is it doesn't really have to adhere to any rules. The Elders Scrolls has always been a action-RPG with dice rolls behind the scenes. It's leaned more actiony in the recent games. But, even if the mix between dice rolls and the action can make the combat feel unrealistic, that's fine. There's nothing wrong with having that type of combat. Turn-based combat is unrealistic too, but that doesn't mean turn-based games aren't fun.
But on the other hand, it does kind of feel janky when you feel like you've made physical contact, but you missed because you failed a dice-roll or stat-check. And if the only progression is doing more damage when you hit, then it doesn't really feel like progression.
For The Elder Scrolls games, I never really thought of it all that much (but maybe that's because I never used arrows). But in the Bethesda Fallout games, where the game feels more like an FPS, I thought the shooting being so stat-based did feel a bit off. I remember having a similar feeling with STALKER, where early in the game you would aim, account for the bullet drop, then click to shoot and your bullet would fly 10 feet to the left of where you aimed.
I guess the bottom line is it doesn't really have to adhere to any rules. The Elders Scrolls has always been a action-RPG with dice rolls behind the scenes. It's leaned more actiony in the recent games. But, even if the mix between dice rolls and the action can make the combat feel unrealistic, that's fine. There's nothing wrong with having that type of combat. Turn-based combat is unrealistic too, but that doesn't mean turn-based games aren't fun.
theshadowcult
New member
Not sure i get the stalker part. In stalker you started with rusted dirty weapons that jammed, and had broken clogged barrels. Random bullets firing in odd directions made sense. Once you got your hands on clean, upgrade, or different new tech guns, they fired like you were expecting.
It's not quite the same as an rpg where your stats determine your ability.
NIGELG
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I have tried a couple of the Classic Turn based RPG's for the first time this year and I am having a lot of trouble getting into them because of the turn based system. The two I tried were Fallout and Planescape.
For me rolling a pure robe wearing Conjuration/Illusion/Restoration mage in Morrowind means I can avoid almost all the clunky looking combat. I love that game immensely.
JohnnyFlash
Professional Lurker
I've got to say that this survival mode is pretty much everything I wanted.
I was just giving an example of games where there is a disconnect between your reflexes and aim and what the 'stats' ended up determining would happen. In Stalker, yeah, you were using rusty weapons at the start and it might make sense. But from the player standpoint, it's frustating to aim a perfect shot and then have the game do something completely different. Which is similar to the problem in the new Fallout games. It's just weapon stats instead of character stats.
I played the original Fallouts many years after they came out and still enjoyed them. They are probably quite slow to play, though.
Personally, I enjoy regular turn-based (Fallout and Wasteland as a more modern example). But I never quite enjoyed the real-time with pause style 'turn-based' games (Planescape and Dragon Age as a more recent example).
But I think Planescape was a highly regarded game less for the combat and more for the huge depth of dialog in the game. So it's a game where you have to be willing to enjoy books worth of text.
Dungeoncrawler
Well-known member
Mods could do this for many years now. Unfortunately the update is not worth dorking my installed mods.
Loser-P
Member
Has anyone with a modded install actually updated yet? And can report how it went?
I just haven't bothered since I'm in no hurry to play again, and a couple of the mods I use have been updated and want you to start a new save. But other than that I don't have any that I think would actually be broken by the update.
I just haven't bothered since I'm in no hurry to play again, and a couple of the mods I use have been updated and want you to start a new save. But other than that I don't have any that I think would actually be broken by the update.
JohnnyFlash
Professional Lurker
There are two mods on nexus that allow you to bypass the update.
Been playing through the game again on my Xbox Series X with mods. The update screwed it up pretty good. If I manage to get past the black screen and actually in the game I can't move. Not sure what mod/mods is/are not jiving with it. I gave up and will revisit later to see if I can get it working or not.
