So I want to run a sound card in 2024...

cbsboyer

cbsboyer

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My current daily driver is a positively ancient Sound Blaster X-Fi Fatal1ty hooked up to an external DAC and tube amp via an optical TOSLINK cable. Yes, the DAC can be run directly via USB and actually specs better that way (32 bit/384kHz vs 24/96), but I don't want to give up the Sound Blaster for one reason: I like the Crystalizer DSP software.

For those who don't know, what the Crystalizer software does is undo some of the "Wall of Sound" dynamic compression that pretty much every studio uses. Basically it emphasizes transitions and certain frequency bands while de-emphasizing others in real time using the DSP hardware on the card. To my ear, some music benefits from this quite a lot.

The problem? The card is old enough to vote, and the drivers haven't been updated since forever ago and force me to disable some Windows security settings to function.

Anyone still here use a discrete sound card? Also, anyone know of a vendor with similar functionality, or is this a Creative only kind of thing?
 
I'm still running a Creative Sound Blaster Z. I used to use the multichannel analog outputs on the card because my previous Onkyo receiver (TX-SR605) that I bought new back in 2007 or so had multichannel analog inputs. It seems most all receivers don't have that capability these days so now I just use optical out and DTS Connect with my Pioneer VSX-LX305 I got earlier this year.
 
The easy answer is one of the newer Sound Blaster cards. I think Sony has a similar technique in one of their portable players. I suspect Windows Sonic probably does a bit of the same.

For what it's worth, Crystallizer is a cool technique, but it also sounds wrong to my ears.
 
Here is a recent post I made on another forum regarding my new USB DAC:

Thought I would post my impressions of the Bifrost 2/64:

So, I got my AudioQuest Cinnamon USB-B to USB-C cable for free because Amazon was way past the delivery date and offered to do a refund. I got my refund but the cable was also delivered the day I got my refund. I contacted Amazon and they said not to worry and just keep it.

A little history of my computer's audio journey:

Built desktop PC in 2012 with a Titanium HD and Corsair SP2500 speakers. Thought it sounded great.

In 2015 I got my JBL LSR305 studio monitors and LSR310S subwoofer. This was a completely different universe in terms of sound quality. After this, I vowed to never return to those "PC gaming speaker sets" again and always use real speakers/studio monitors.

In 2020, I got my AE-9. I noticed an improvement in sound quality and a massive increase in bass (even with the same level settings on the speakers and subwoofer). Was worth it over the Titanium HD.

In December 2023, I sold my desktop PC but kept the JBLs for use with my next computer (a MacBook Pro 14").

On April 21, I received my Schiit Bifrost 2/64 and connected it to my MacBook Pro 14" via USB for use with my JBL speakers and subwoofer.

AE-9 vs. Bifrost 2/64:

Significant increase in clarity. I've started noticing things/sounds that I didn't notice before. Bass seems to be less than the AE-9 but I think the AE-9 was boosting the bass because literally everything has bombastic amounts of bass whereas with the Bifrost 2/64, things have bass when they are actually supposed to. So, I don't think there is less bass on the Bifrost 2/64 because it seems the Bifrost 2/64's bass is more accurate. Bifrost 2/64's bass tightness and texture is a marked improvement over the AE-9. The bass is more cleaner on the Bifrost 2/64.

Soundstage and spacial cues are much better on the Bifrost 2/64 vs. the AE-9. The AE-9's soundstage and sense of space was very flat and 2D but had good amount of width. On the Bifrost 2/64, I can actually hear depth in the soundstage and imagining is improved.

Massive improvement in the reproduction of music on the Bifrost 2/64 vs. the AE-9. Music sounds so "real" and not digital like it did on the AE-9. Not sure if this is because of the Lossless and Hi-Res Lossless formats I now have on Apple Music with macOS (because on Windows you don't get lossless music on Apple Music). But my God, music sounds so good now and I'm listening to the same music. But even music on YouTube sounds so much better. The soundstage, depth, spacial cues, clarity, bite/attack, dynamics, and imagining are all vastly improved.

One pretty impressive thing I also noticed with the Bifrost 2/64 is that when I am viewing Twitch streams, I can now actually hear how good the streamer's game audio settings and setup is. With the AE-9, every streamer's game audio sounded the same. With the Bifrost 2/64, I can clearly tell the difference in a streamer's game audio and how good they have it set up.

Overall, super happy with the Bifrost 2/64. As I vowed to never return to those "PC gaming speaker sets" again, I don't think I'll ever return to a gaming-centric sound card again either.

By the way, the Bifrost 2/64 has been powered on ever since I got it and I noticed quite an improvement in its sound quality after a few days of it being left on.
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Yeah, I use a Clarett+, and am happier with accuracy than I am sounding 'pretty'. Even notoriously badly mastered albums like Californication benefit from better equipment than they do 'fixing' the audio.
 
metroidfox said:
The easy answer is one of the newer Sound Blaster cards. I think Sony has a similar technique in one of their portable players. I suspect Windows Sonic probably does a bit of the same.

For what it's worth, Crystallizer is a cool technique, but it also sounds wrong to my ears.
Click to expand...
Yeah, Crystallizer works great for the songs it works for, but others...not so much. It's very much a per-album kind of thing.
 
I've been using a SoundBlaster X3 for a few years. It replaced my AE5. It's an external USB sound card/DAC and works pretty well. Looks like it has now been replaced by the SoundBlaster X4, but you can still buy refurbished ones on Amazon for $70. The major reason I use this is to get around the headaches of the HDMI sound output to the AV receiver acting as a phantom monitor.

If, unlike me, you don't need the multiple speaker outputs there is also the SoundBlaster X G6.
 
I was using a Sound Blaster AE-5 in my computer, though I recently took it out and put it in my wife's computer instead.
I'm currently using the motherboards onboard audio toslink connector to powered nearfield monitors, and they pretty much sound the same.
However, I miss the dedicated headphone jack on on the sound blaster, I can definitely hear the difference (in certain situations).
 
I had considered getting a SB AE-5 or AE-7 for a while but ultimately decided against it. There isn't much in the way of alternatives to Creative's products either, and what is available has various drawbacks. Drivers seem to be a common issue with basically all audio cards on the market.

The onboard audio on my motherboard is doing well enough (rear analog audio port --> subwoofer with configurable crossover and pass-through to my powered speakers). I also have my powered speakers hooked up to the optical out on my mobo which I use sometimes when I'm listening to content that doesn't necessarily need a sub.

At some point I'd like to get a good DAC/Pre-amp, amp and passive speakers but what I have in mind would isn't really in my budget at the moment.
 
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RAY16 said:
I had considered getting a SB AE-5 or AE-7 for a while but ultimately decided against it. There isn't much in the way of alternatives to SB's products either, and what is available has various drawbacks. Drivers seem to be a common issue with basically all audio cards on the market.

The onboard audio on my motherboard is doing well enough (rear analog audio port --> subwoofer with configurable crossover and pass-through to my powered speakers). I also have my powered speakers hooked up to the optical out on my mobo which I use sometimes when I'm listening to content that doesn't necessarily need a sub.

At some point I'd like to get a good DAC/Pre-amp, amp and passive speakers but what I have in mind would isn't really in my budget at the moment.
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I've had really good luck with my gear from Schiit (a Vali 2 and a Modi 2e). It doesn't break the bank and works beautifully with my magnetic planar headphones (Monoprice 1060C). I'm feeding the DAC from my sound card via the optical out for complete electrical isolation of the audio. Schiit has a line of near field amps for passive speakers that might fir the bill for you.
 
metroidfox said:
Yeah, I use a Clarett+, and am happier with accuracy than I am sounding 'pretty'. Even notoriously badly mastered albums like Californication benefit from better equipment than they do 'fixing' the audio.
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To follow up on this, I've realised that Focusrite's internal clocking is somehow apparently terrible. Hooking my Clarett+ to external clocking (in this case, my Realtek onboard chip) has smoothed out certain things. Internal clocking should be better, but it somehow isn't.

People generally say neutrality sounds 'boring', but my experience is that something is probably slightly off if that's the case.
 
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I run a bog-standard DAC, and love it. Much better than ye-olde audio jack for headphones. I then use the RCA out of the DAC to an amplifier for speakers.
 
Go to audiosciencereview.com if you want actual measurements of DAC quality. No more guessing. Proper comprehensive measurements. Regarding the clarett+, I'm the technician for a facility with around 20 of those. Amazing bits of kit. If you have any issues with sound qualify from one of those, it's broken, or something else funny is going on.

Honestly, these days a DAC has to be pretty broken for it to be audibly different to just about any other non broken DAC. Doesn't cost much money either. Heck, the $13 (australian) apple USB C headphone adapter has near perfect audio quailty. It can be used with a normal windows computer too.

www.audiosciencereview.com

Review: Apple vs Google USB-C Headphone Adapters

This is a review, detailed measurements and comparison of Apple's USB-C adapter to the current and last version of Google Pixel headphone adapters. The Apple adapter costs just $9 including one day shipping for free. The Google dongle costs $12. Not that any of these are large by any stretch...
www.audiosciencereview.com www.audiosciencereview.com


Because I have Neumann KH 120a studio monitors as my computers speakers (absolutely amazing speakers), and they require a balanaced input, I have a SMSL C200 DAC, fed by an optical connection to the on board sound on my motherboard. That requirement is the only reason I've bothered with a dedicated DAC.
 
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Yeah, I've got the USB-C version of the Apple 3.5mm cable. It is strong.

As for the Focusrite clocking, I suspect it's a driver issue. What I'm saying with external clocking is the opposite of what should be the case. I've talked with Focusrite, and they haven't been able to say much about it. The behaviour is consistent across multiple Focusrite devices, including multiple gens of Scarlett.

This points to my computer, but I believe this is consistent across multiple computers as well.

I don't have a good way of testing it empirically, but it definitely sounds better this way.
 
metroidfox said:
I don't have a good way of testing it empirically, but it definitely sounds better this way.
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You could do some loopback testing using Right Mark Audio Analyzer. But if it's a clocking issue, it may well cancel out if the outputs and inputs are fed from the same clock, so if you have access to another audio device, you could go from the output on the clarett to the input on the other, and then test the input on clarett fed from the output of the other. RMAA is very handy if you don't have dedicated test equipment. You could also test the clarett output feeding the input of another device when clocked internally, or when it's fed by spdif.
 
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