MSI GeForce RTX 2070 GAMING Z Performance Review

Nunz said:
you've repeated this multiple times but haven't shown how he actually "disrespected" the "community". how did he disrespect the "community of reviewers" by getting the card on his own accord, not given to him by NV and doing his own review. you can't explain it, so you just keep saying it over and over. He was not signed to an NDA and thus is not limited by an embargo date.

once again, I don't see you talking about the "rift of mistrust" between NV and the consumer as they bend us over for an entire line of absurdly priced video cards. :rolleyes:



Considering NV isn't the biggest fan of HardOCP or Kyle, I actually wouldn't be too surprised if they tried to cuckold him with a lawsuit.
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Mistrust of companies sending review samples or products to Hardocp. This is my fear because i like their review methodologies. I fear by ignoring the embargo date may cause mistrust moving forward.
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He disrespected other reviewers because he knew they were under nda and couldn't release their hard work. If you can't see this point there's not much i can do for ya.
 
SIrPauly said:
Mistrust of companies sending review samples or products to Hardocp. This is my fear because i like their review methodologies. I fear by ignoring the embargo date may cause mistrust moving forward.
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He disrespected other reviewers because he knew they were under nda and couldn't release their hard work. If you can't see this point there's not much i can do for ya.
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NV has already black listed him for outing them on GPP

and if they or AMD give him a fair NDA he will sign it and follow it
 
SIrPauly said:
Mistrust of companies sending review samples or products to Hardocp. This is my fear because i like their review methodologies. I fear by ignoring the embargo date may cause mistrust moving forward.
.
He disrespected other reviewers because he knew they were under nda and couldn't release their hard work. If you can't see this point there's not much i can do for ya.
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If he had purchased the card under fair rules, then who gives a crap about other reviewers and NDA's. But if what you're saying is true, and he got the card by other more sketchy means...well, that's a bit different. Not a fan of that at all.
 
@bill


No they didn't, he.was offered a nda to sign but refused. I don't know how msi and nvidia feel about hardocp right now.
 
SIrPauly said:
@bill


No they didn't, he.was offered a nda to sign but refused. I don't know how msi and nvidia feel about hardocp right now.
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and as a journalist not a reviewer he would not sign a multi year NDA that would stop him from reporting things like GPP in the future

and he gained a lot more respect for not bending over and grabbing his ankles


hell NV wrote that NDA because of him and GPP
 
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OverclockN' said:
If he had purchased the card under fair rules, then who gives a crap about other reviewers and NDA's. But if what you're saying is true, and he got the card by other more sketchy means...well, that's a bit different. Not a fan of that at all.
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Even if purchased fairly; its a slippery slope and a double edged sword with the embargo date. Look, he made his decision and he has to put up with the consequences.

Maybe it's kyle taking a courageous stand and bringing attention to how he defines nvidia's unfair practices and fighting for the gamer.
 
DeathKnight said:
Whether it's a review sample or not takes a back seat to the general behavior. He's made it pretty clear he'll source product wherever he can to get the first review out ahead of any official embargo with the justification that he's not under an NDA. What's to stop him from continuing to do this? How likely is he to sign any NDA's in the future (from whatever company) or stick to review embargoes? It's definitely a rabbit hole but is it the wisest choice to be going down this one? I guess we'll see.
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I do see your point, not saying you're wrong.
 
SIrPauly said:
Mistrust of companies sending review samples or products to Hardocp. This is my fear because i like their review methodologies. I fear by ignoring the embargo date may cause mistrust moving forward.
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NV already has it out for HardOCP after the whole GPP fiasco. This doesn’t mean much. And again, where have you been talking about all this mistrust and disrespect while NV has charged us, the consumers, a $500 mark up on the 2080TI, and placed 5yr NDAs on reviewers? Where were you to talk about all the mistrust, the “rifts”, and the “disappointment” while NV continues to lock out features like FreeSync on their GPUs? Not a peep. Somehow though, Kyle buying a GPU with his own money, telling NV to **** off with their 5yr garbage NDAs, and doing a review that puts the consumer first is somehow the bad guy, because “boohoo the reviewer community!”

**** that community, it’s a bunch of idiots who sold out to NV and signed their NDA. Kyle doesn’t have to abide to it because he didn’t let NV have more control over his reviews than he does, and I respect him for that. He’s not going to receive review samples, and frankly if he’s still willing to purchase cards on his own to do reviews, then more power to him. As a community we should be standing behind someone who is doing what these other websites don’t have the balls to do. At least Kyle shows some type of care for the hardware community.

He disrespected other reviewers because he knew they were under nda and couldn't release their hard work. If you can't see this point there's not much i can do for ya.
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You see it as disrespect and I don’t. He shouldn’t have released his review despite paying his own money for the card? It’s not like he received a review sample and broke protocol. His money, his card, his review. I simply do not see where it’s “disrespectful” considering he purchased the card on his own accord.
 
Nunz said:
NV already has it out for HardOCP after the whole GPP fiasco. This doesn’t mean much. And again, where have you been talking about all this mistrust and disrespect while NV has charged us, the consumers, a $500 mark up on the 2080TI, and placed 5yr NDAs on reviewers? Where were you to talk about all the mistrust, the “rifts”, and the “disappointment” while NV continues to lock out features like FreeSync on their GPUs? Not a peep. Somehow though, Kyle buying a GPU with his own money, telling NV to **** off with their 5yr garbage NDAs, and doing a review that puts the consumer first is somehow the bad guy, because “boohoo the reviewer community!”

**** that community, it’s a bunch of idiots who sold out to NV and signed their NDA. Kyle doesn’t have to abide to it because he didn’t let NV have more control over his reviews than he does, and I respect him for that. He’s not going to receive review samples, and frankly if he’s still willing to purchase cards on his own to do reviews, then more power to him. As a community we should be standing behind someone who is doing what these other websites don’t have the balls to do. At least Kyle shows some type of care for the hardware community.

You see it as disrespect and I don’t. He shouldn’t have released his review despite paying his own money for the card? It’s not like he received a review sample and broke protocol. His money, his card, his review. I simply do not see where it’s “disrespectful” considering he purchased the card on his own accord.
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Agreed.
 
I see your points and disagree with them guys. It's a slippery slope and a double edged sword considering how important embargo dates are. Calling out reviewers that signed the nda as sell outs is far too extreme, too emotional, and very disrespectful as well.
 
SIrPauly said:
I see your points and disagree with them guys. It's a slippery slope and a double edged sword considering how important embargo dates are. Calling out reviewers that signed the nda as sell outs is far too extreme, too emotional, and very disrespectful as well.
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OK


and I don't trust anyone that did sign as nvidia has proved time and again to be untrustworthy so why trust anyone in bed with them
 
SIrPauly said:
Even if purchased fairly; its a slippery slope and a double edged sword with the embargo date. Look, he made his decision and he has to put up with the consequences.

Maybe it's kyle taking a courageous stand and bringing attention to how he defines nvidia's unfair practices and fighting for the gamer.
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If he bought it by fair means and signed no NDA's, I don't see the problem. You'll have to explain it to me, I guess.
 
@ bill

Trust whomever you want bill; it's your hard earned money. I trust gamers like demo or blaire from Germany than i do reviewers because they actually game on the hardware and very keen on the experiences. I listen close to companies and reviewers but i trust certain gamers.
 
SIrPauly said:
I see your points and disagree with them guys. It's a slippery slope and a double edged sword considering how important embargo dates are.
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Fair enough. Why are embargo dates so important, though? What makes them such a big deal?

Calling out reviewers that signed the nda as sell outs is far too extreme, too emotional, and very disrespectful as well.
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How is it too extreme? The "community" as you say, should have banded together instead of allowing NV to bully them and create an environment where reviews must be taken with an extreme grain of salt because they're controlled not by the reviewer, but by NV. They are sell outs, that's literally what they did when they signed the dotted lines.

You throw that disrespectful word around pretty willy-nilly. I'm being honest here. I still browse websites like Anandtech, and honestly I don't go to HardOCP at all besides the off-chance GPU review. Can I trust reviews from anyone anymore? Nope. Not only that, but this "community" you talk about so much and how we should be oh so respectful towards them threw us under the bus the second they signed that NDA and allowed their reviews to be tainted.

Why aren't you calling out how disrespectful these reviewers were towards the hardware community as a whole when they chose to sign an absolutely ridiculous 5yr NDA? Where was the respect for the "community" then? I'll wait.

I'm not trying to drag this discussion out Pauly, but I'm just trying to make sure there isn't any confusion here. Of all people, I thought you would be someone who sided with Kyle on this as he is putting the gaming community first, giving us a real review that isn't handpicked or NDA'd or have any other type of bias on it. It's as honest of a review as it can get.
 
I think kyle's interpretation of the nda is overreaching and why sites didn't band together against it. I've always been a proponent of their methodologies and strong convictions. Wish he would rethink this stance on the nda.
 
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