is PC HDMI audio to AV Receiver easy today?

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Napoleonic

Active member
is it easy now? easy as in plug and play without any fuss, for all kind of audio from windows to apps to gaming to dolby/dts hdmablablabla thing?

I want to set it like this, GPU display port out to my monitor and then I connect the monitor with HDMI to receiver, is it as plug and play as a USB drive now? or the monitor and receiver would get hissy and confused?

or is this still have too much hassle and I better stick to the outdated optical SPDIF to play the pc audio?
 
TLDR: If running 5.1 or less just stick with SPDIF and save yourself some grief. If running 7.1 then HDMI works, just with some annoying hassles.

In terms of getting sound out it works fine. Where you potentially encounter problems is with the whole graphics side of it. If you're only running at 60 or 75 Hz via HDMI with no adaptive sync then it's no problem, because you can just pass through the receiver.

Unfortunately, most receivers (maybe all?) can't handle 144 Hz or adaptive sync. So if you're running high refresh rate (or freesync/g-sync), then you have to connect your monitor separately (as you indicated you want to), and that's where the problems start. Now Windows thinks you're running two monitors, even though one of them (the receiver) is just a dummy. It still makes an entire second desktop for it and sometimes icons or program windows end up over there, where you can't see them. I've even had full screen games inexplicably open on the AV receiver "monitor", while I stare stupidly at the empty desktop on my actual display. Getting things back on your actual monitor is then a pain in the ass since no display is actually connected to interact with (if your monitor has multiple inputs, you can run a second connection through the receiver to switch over to, which is better, but still annoying). Whenever you turn the receiver on or off, Windows also juggles everything around since a new monitor has "connected".

Of course, you can try to run cloned, but oftentimes Freesync or G-sync won't work in that case. Sometimes it won't even work with different refresh rates on the receiver compared to the monitor. Like games will be locked to 60 Hz of the receiver, even though your actual monitor is 144 Hz.

It's so annoying that I actually tried to run analogue output to my receiver instead via 4 RCA cables, but Windows botches that too. For some idiotic reason, Windows give priority to the rear surrounds over the surrounds in a 7.1 setup. So, in situations where you have only 5.1 audio in a 7.1 setup, you'll get sound from Front, Center, Rear Surround, instead of Front, Center, Surround. Your receiver also can't do any processing on analogue input (not even bass redirection), so that's also a mess. There are ways to work around that, but they all are imperfect and not worth the hassle, so I went back to HDMI.

Overall my advice is if you're running only a 5.1 setup, just stick with SPDIF. You're not going to be able to hear the difference in quality (lossy vs lossless is too small a difference to really matter), and you sidestep all of these issues. If you're running 7.1 then you have no real choice but to go with HDMI (analogue has even worse problems, IMO; not to mention few receivers take analogue multi-channel input anymore). In that case, it does work, just with some annoying hassles.
 
well I don't have gsync or 144hz monitor but if possible I want to try VRR with a new PC build as I already have a VRR monitor albeit maybe a crappy one (also worth nothing I use nvidia).

what I still don't get from your post is about the cabling thing and the "flowchart", I specifically mentioned that I want to use a display port as the primary cable from the PC to the monitor, so this mean all the audio+video data would go to the monitor first, before the monitor send another audio+video data to the receiver.

does that setup have no effects on everything that you stated? or will it cause even more problem? I'd only use 5.1 setup... can you please explain once again how is the easiest setup one need to do for 5.1 speakers with AV receiver, including the "flowchart" of the cabling solution, and say <75Hz monitor with VRR on (although I'm using 3440x1440 one, so pretty high bandwidth). oh crap just read your post that VRR can't work with AV receivers, so is this a dead end? but I don't understand about the 2 desktop thing, I mean as far as I'm concerned, the only cable that connect the pc with the monitor would be a single display port cable, so...? I'm hella confused here

my main grudge with using the ancient SPDIF is that I can't get real multi channel when gaming with such setup, unless I'm using some kind of DD Live audio encoding or the DTS equivalent, but that's so old of a solution, other than that on my current old receiver I resorted to the ancient dolby pro logic 2, maybe there's something newer in software tech to do the job today? but then again with such a software solution, I'd waste pc resources just to experience multi channel gaming audio, not to mention the lackluster audio quality and possibly tons other bugs that can happen.

so with this in mind, it's pretty much seem like a very disappointing state of affairs in PC audio today, isn't it? I thought by now such HD multi channel audio would be the standard on PC :mad: I blame all the cheapo pc gamers and enthusiasts that are just satisfied with crappy headphone solutions for this state of affairs, can't be helped from my pov :p

on the bright side, this can mean a somewhat cheapo logitech multimedia speakers can be enough for my need than getting another full fledged HT audio setup.
 
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Basically what you're saying with going with DP to monitor and also HDMI to the receiver you'll encounter the problems I mentioned, because Windows sees it as two monitors.

For 5.1 via SPDIF you do have to use DD Live or DTS encoding. That's not really that hard to do though, provided you have a Realtek onboard audio solution on your mobo with optical out. You can download an unlocked version of the driver that has DTS or DD Live enabled. That will automatically set your sound output to 5.1 speakers and spit the signal out to the receiver. That is my recommended suggestion for 5.1, just because it gets you multichannel out without having the whole dummy monitor issue. Even modern receivers can still handle that sort of signal via optical, so it's not a problem on the receiver end.

Don't get me wrong, I don't want to end up exaggerating how bad things are with HDMI audio output. It does work fine, and I do run 7.1 audio on my receiver. It works in games/movies, etc, and for the most part I don't have any issues. It's just there are some annoying quirks to deal with, but it's not like you can't get over them.
 
In terms of connection flow chart, I guess it's these two options:

1) 5.1 Audio via DTS/DD Live: DP to Monitor, Optical Cable to Receiver

2) 5.1 or 7.1 Audio via HDMI: DP to monitor, HDMI Cable to receiver, HDMI Cable from receiver to second input on monitor (optional but suggested).

In the end either option will work. Just some quirks with the whole monitor business on the second one, but the problems aren't insurmountable.
 
Nagorak said:
Basically what you're saying with going with DP to monitor and also HDMI to the receiver you'll encounter the problems I mentioned, because Windows sees it as two monitors.

For 5.1 via SPDIF you do have to use DD Live or DTS encoding. That's not really that hard to do though, provided you have a Realtek onboard audio solution on your mobo with optical out. You can download an unlocked version of the driver that has DTS or DD Live enabled. That will automatically set your sound output to 5.1 speakers and spit the signal out to the receiver. That is my recommended suggestion for 5.1, just because it gets you multichannel out without having the whole dummy monitor issue. Even modern receivers can still handle that sort of signal via optical, so it's not a problem on the receiver end.

Don't get me wrong, I don't want to end up exaggerating how bad things are with HDMI audio output. It does work fine, and I do run 7.1 audio on my receiver. It works in games/movies, etc, and for the most part I don't have any issues. It's just there are some annoying quirks to deal with, but it's not like you can't get over them.
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well you say that but at the same time you also making it sound like it's totally problematic, but so to be clear, here's what I get from your explanation, the setup WILL encounter problems if :

1. I'm using high refresh display
2. I'm using VRR/freesync/gsync
3. also possibly if I'm using display HDR output?

is this the expected outcome? so basically if we really go with full PC Master Race grade display, the audio would go bonkers? :lol:
 
Nagorak said:
2) 5.1 or 7.1 Audio via HDMI: DP to monitor, HDMI Cable to receiver, HDMI Cable from receiver to second input on monitor (optional but suggested).
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:hmm: why is that suggested? I can't make sense of the reason, why would you need 2 connections between the monitor and receiver?
 
Napoleonic said:
:hmm: why is that suggested? I can't make sense of the reason, why would you need 2 connections between the monitor and receiver?
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That won't work. HDMI can't output audio without a video signal. Windows will see dual monitors and you'll either be stuck with a phantom second screen desktop in extended mode or your high refresh monitor will be locked to 60Hz in clone mode.
 
GTwannabe said:
That won't work. HDMI can't output audio without a video signal. Windows will see dual monitors and you'll either be stuck with a phantom second screen desktop in extended mode or your high refresh monitor will be locked to 60Hz in clone mode.
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what's "that won't work" here? also do you agree with my assessment in the post before the one that you quoted, that using PC Master Race display mode can't work with HDMI audio? or it can but really messy? or what?

so basically PC HDMI audio is just not worth it unless we stuck with fixed 60hz refresh rate?

thing is, I really need to know everything about this setup because buying the entire HT setup is gonna be expensive :-/ if it really not worth it I'd just use cheapo speaker setup and be done with it.
 
Regarding sending audio/video to monitor first. I don't think there's a way to then pass that on to the receiver? You can pass through the receiver because it has both an hdmi input and output. As far as I know most monitors have input only?

If you know of a way to do what you're saying then maybe it could work (if so, let me know).

Although I think you'd still potentially have problems with adaptive sync / high refresh rate since the receiver wouldn't know what to do with that. The problem with av receivers is they're generally designed with home theaters in mind, so they don't support high end gaming technology like adaptive sync or high refresh rates.
 
Napoleonic said:
well you say that but at the same time you also making it sound like it's totally problematic, but so to be clear, here's what I get from your explanation, the setup WILL encounter problems if :

1. I'm using high refresh display
2. I'm using VRR/freesync/gsync
3. also possibly if I'm using display HDR output?

is this the expected outcome? so basically if we really go with full PC Master Race grade display, the audio would go bonkers? :lol:
Click to expand...

I guess the answer is there are problems and then there are PROBLEMS. You do encounter some lowercase problems--minor hassle/things could be better type. But it does basically work, just with some annoyances.

It doesn't rise to the level of not being worth doing, it's more like there are some things you need to be ready for.

Technically just running the connection through the receiver to a secondary input on your display is enough to overcome most of the issues. Because then if something ends up on the wrong display, you just switch inputs and move it back. So not that big of a deal.

It's just if you haven't made that second connection, then you have a problem since you have a "headless" display that you can't interact with.
 
Napoleonic said:
thing is, I really need to know everything about this setup because buying the entire HT setup is gonna be expensive :-/ if it really not worth it I'd just use cheapo speaker setup and be done with it.
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A high end speaker set blows away cheap speakers. It's definitely worth it! I wish I'd done it years ago! ;)

I'm just trying to warn you of the issues you'll encounter so you're prepared for them. Maybe my first post came across as overly negative, which wasn't my intention. I'm a bit of a perfectionist, so encountering these issues does annoy me, but overall the experience is still mostly good.
 
You know.. if you used HDMI to receiver and HDMI to monitor from receiver your troubles are over.
I guess I don't know why you're hung up on the DP out.
 
Hardwood said:
You know.. if you used HDMI to receiver and HDMI to monitor from receiver your troubles are over.
I guess I don't know why you're hung up on the DP out.
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because it would introduce input lag when gaming? also as with the previously mentioned matters here, can you even do high refresh GSYNC/VRR + HDR from a receiver? (I bet not, but this kind of PC Master Race display is something I want to try down the line, so I don't want to miss such a thing after buying expensive audio, or stuck with janky audio setup from those config) also isn't the HDMI infrastructure is behind DP for PC hardware?
 
Nagorak said:
I guess the answer is there are problems and then there are PROBLEMS. You do encounter some lowercase problems--minor hassle/things could be better type. But it does basically work, just with some annoyances.

It doesn't rise to the level of not being worth doing, it's more like there are some things you need to be ready for.

Technically just running the connection through the receiver to a secondary input on your display is enough to overcome most of the issues. Because then if something ends up on the wrong display, you just switch inputs and move it back. So not that big of a deal.

It's just if you haven't made that second connection, then you have a problem since you have a "headless" display that you can't interact with.
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Nagorak, I reread your initial post and it really read like this thing is PITA, with the whole VRR, high refresh, desktop cloning, triple cables etc (headless/blank display I kinda get it but how does it get fixed by looping the signal back to the monitor -kinda rhetoric question you don't have to answer, just to show you how confused I'm) all those potential issues, and I still don't understand how do these all things work or need to be prepared...

is there any article guide for dummy on how to prepare and do all of that for this thing? something like triple cables is a thing I'd never expect if I didn't create this thread, damn :(
 
Napoleonic said:
because it would introduce input lag when gaming? also as with the previously mentioned matters here, can you even do high refresh GSYNC/VRR + HDR from a receiver? (I bet not, but this kind of PC Master Race display is something I want to try down the line, so I don't want to miss such a thing after buying expensive audio, or stuck with janky audio setup from those config) also isn't the HDMI infrastructure is behind DP for PC hardware?
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Going PC -> receiver -> monitor will work. However, your resolution and refresh rate will be limited by what video formats the receiver can understand (ie 1080p/60fps, 4k 30fps, etc.) You will also lose any benefit of a high/variable refresh monitor.

I'm in the same boat and settled on DTS 5.1 encoding over SPDIF. This isn't ideal because some games (console ports) don't allow you to specify your speaker configuration and default to stereo when they detect SPDIF. I previously used a SoundBlaster Z for DTS encoding as it presents itself as a 5.1 device. However, Creative's drivers are hot garbage and haven't been updated since March 2017.

There were a few soundcards with HDMI out, but they have been out of production 10+ years and lack Win 10 driver support so buying used/new old stock isn't a great idea.
 
Erhmmmm.... PC to display and then use the HDMi arc enabled port on the display to the receivers main display output. That would work.... Assuming arc is there. I'm gonna hazard a guess that isn't exactly common for PC monitors though :(
 
Napoleonic said:
Nagorak, I reread your initial post and it really read like this thing is PITA, with the whole VRR, high refresh, desktop cloning, triple cables etc (headless/blank display I kinda get it but how does it get fixed by looping the signal back to the monitor -kinda rhetoric question you don't have to answer, just to show you how confused I'm) all those potential issues, and I still don't understand how do these all things work or need to be prepared...

is there any article guide for dummy on how to prepare and do all of that for this thing? something like triple cables is a thing I'd never expect if I didn't create this thread, damn :(
Click to expand...

I don't know of a tutorial I can link you to. I'm afraid that probably not too many people are running their PCs through AV receivers to start with, so there isn't even a demand for a "how to". If you run a search maybe you can find something, but I have no specific suggestions to offer.

That being said, I'm afraid I may have overwhelmed you with too many minor details and made it sound more complicated than it really is. The only real problem you can encounter is the second display issue, and the fact Windows will sometimes inexplicably place things on the second display. But that's not that hard to overcome, if it becomes an issue.

I actually have clone mode successfully running right now with my display (same video/audio out to both "displays"), so it can work (I think it may work better with G-sync than Freesync). And if cloning works then there isn't a problem at all.

Maybe the best option is to just connect your AV receiver and set it up and see if there are any problems. There probably won't be. If there are, just post back here. I'm sure that I or someone else will be able to help you work out any issues.

The bottom line is you don't need to worry about spending hundreds of dollars and then having things just not work. It will end up working fine, so don't worry about that.
 
What we need is a PCI-E board that outputs 8 channel PCM over HDMI with a dummy video signal generator. Kickstarter, anyone?
 
PC audio is so far behind technologically it is ridiculous :mad: VR has helped a bit, but not enough. I run 7.1 through HDMI, just glad I'm only running that display at 1920x1080 60Hz (projector). Using just analogue outs (reduced latency) on my 4K setup. Mindboggling.
 
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