Correction: What the H_E_L_L was ATI Thinking When They Decided to Release the VE?

otheipion

otheipion

New member
Sorry, dudes, but the (albeit, corrected) question still stands: What were they thinking?

This card can't compete with the Geforce MX, so why did they even produce and release it? It just undermines their credibility and reputation. I just don't understand the lack of vision.

This card can't even get respect from a pro-ATI reviewer! Read about it here.

Will someone please tell me exactly who will buy this card?
 
The Radeon VE is aimed towards business use, NOT intended for gaming. That's probably the reason it has dual monitor support and a flat panel monitor output. The only people who are going to buy these are people who own large businesses and don't care for 3D gaming.
 
It's direct competition to the G450, but they should've used the Radeon's 360mhz Ramdac instead
 
PCFreak said:
The Radeon VE is aimed towards business use, NOT intended for gaming. That's probably the reason it has dual monitor support and a flat panel monitor output. The only people who are going to buy these are people who own large businesses and don't care for 3D gaming.
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Well, it benches very poorly compared to the MX (which also has dual screen support for business) so it had better have a VERY competitive price point or else ATI won't be able to give them away!
 
Sell? Who said anything about selling? The card was made to be bundled with a new business machine. I assume that few people would go out and buy this card as an upgrade. It is a cheep card that can be thrown in and sold with a computer.
As for the reason that they underpowered it? Who knows, mabey thay had some old parts to use up, or to keep the price down, I don't know.
How is the 2d visual quality? Is it on par with the Radeon?
If it is they probably went more for compatability over performance.
It isn't a worthless card, it just isn't aimed at the public as a replacement card. I bet it is better than the stripped model Rage card that is in the compaq on my desk at work.
Talk to people that bought a "name brand" computer. The original video card is most likley the cheapest version of that line, the cheap stripped model is far from a new idea. If every computer came with a radeon no one would have to upgrade and no work would get done, people would play games and watch demos all day long.
 
synk said:
It isn't a worthless card, it just isn't aimed at the public as a replacement card. I bet it is better than the stripped model Rage card that is in the compaq on my desk at work.
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Well, this is a good point and almost certainly true. ATI has stated that they intend to push Radeon technology all the way down throughout all of their product lines.

Talk to people that bought a "name brand" computer. The original video card is most likley the cheapest version of that line, the cheap stripped model is far from a new idea. If every computer came with a radeon no one would have to upgrade and no work would get done, people would play games and watch demos all day long.
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Do you really think that the user (or computer) for whom this card was intended is in an upgrade path? (I don't think so.) Look, I can appreciate that ATI wants to span the entire market range with Radeon but this had better be one cheap board. Unless they intend to dump (in the most tactical sense of the word) this board out into the OEM space, then what was the point? The MX (already very cheap!) crushes it both in terms of performance and features.

Chalk this one up on the "What were they thinking?!" list.
 
It's a DUAL monitor card. Currently you CAN'T use two monitors for games as Windows is not designed for it. This card is intended for productivity reasons in mind, not the gamers. Why does everyone think it's always about games? Gaming only represents a portion of the entire market.

If Compaq needed to supply a national bank with 2000 new computers, and an ATI Radeon VE could be had for $69 wholesale and the Gforce version could be had for $89 wholesale, who do you think will win the deal? It's a $40,000 difference!

In such a cut throat, low profit business, ATI is making the right move.
 
The Grinch said:
It's a DUAL monitor card. Currently you CAN'T use two monitors for games as Windows is not designed for it. This card is intended for productivity reasons in mind, not the gamers.
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Agreed.
If Compaq needed to supply a national bank with 2000 new computers, and an ATI Radeon VE could be had for $69 wholesale and the Gforce version could be had for $89 wholesale, who do you think will win the deal? It's a $40,000 difference!
In such a cut throat, low profit business, ATI is making the right move.
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Very regrettable that, in fact, it will have to be a less expensive board than the MX if it is going to sell.
 
Well, ATI was pretty stupid on that part. Both the VE and the MX have dual monitor support and while at the same price, the VE offers performance worse than a Voodoo4. Just some food for thought.
 
I'm sure that ATI has their reasons for configuring the card the way it is. Benchmarks aren't everything. There are probably big bucks to be made with the VE that you nor I know about. This really is a pointless arguement.
 
The Grinch said:
This really is a pointless arguement.
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While more of a rant than an argument, I just hope that you are right and that ATI has this well thought out.

Here's hoping that they roll out Radeon 2 ahead of schedule!
 
According to MacCentral (Yeah, I know, who cares...)

ATI believes that OEM PC manufacturers, many who sell PCs directly to corporate and government buyers, want a certain level of 3D graphics, but are not interested in paying for the high-end Radeon's level of 3D performance. Also, these customers are looking for the best value for driving strong 2D graphics in business and productivity applications. The Radeon VE is expected to fill this niche
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So, if ATI is correct in this thinking about OEMs-and they should have some knowledge in these matters by now-then we might have a winner here. Strictly OEM, however...
 
How much longer will ATI be in the gaming market?

How much longer will ATI be in the gaming market?

After the Radeon2, I don't think that ATI would be putting any more money into the 3d gamin market. Even with the Radeon, it's a strong indication that the gaming community does not want to have ATI anymore. If anyone has seen the Cnet video of Steve Jobs introducing the Geforce 3 line of cards, they would know what I am talking about. I can plainly see that Steve is relieved that there is an alternative to sub-par performance with ATI. Do any of you remember whether or not Steve Jobs made in introduction like that for ATI? I don't remember...but probably not though. And as for games, ATI is asking around developers the kinds of enhancements that they will be putting into games and thus putting those features into their cards, while developers are more on par with Nvidia's features. We see ATI touting their features with Direct3D, but reality hits us that majority of the future games will be coded in OpenGL...this really goes towards games like Doom3 of the sort.

So, how long do you think ATI will be around for the gaming community?
 
Just a note :

The second display on an Nvidia requires a external DAC chip to work. It is probably not the $99 card you see advertise.

Secondly, any of the cards that support the digital video interface (RGB + TMDS/flatpanel) also need another
external TMDS transmitter chip to work...again you will not find it in the $99 dollar version of the Nvidia.

Most of the OEM want something to replace the aging TNT2 chips with a games bump and more quality features such as high quality DVD, decent games performance, flat panel display and dual monitor support in one chip. Expect to see the Radeon VE in many systems next year and all the TNT2 chips that made Nvidia money last quarter are reaching end of life and begin to be replaced by something more feature laden and integrated.




Sharky's Extreme posted this review of the VE. Despite being targeted for business, the combination of newly optimized drivers has managed to finally squeeze more out of the Radeon to the point that it matches the MX under D3D and in Quake 3 in HQ mode and gives chase under Normal mode.
 
waterplanet - in john carmacks .plan file - he seems to wish there were more competitors in the graphics industry. I think that is a strong statement that the gaming industry DOES want ATI - and possibly more competitors.
 
You people dont seem to get the whole point of the dualhead system. It's to expand your desktop for businesses... The MX twin-view IS NOT on par with the radeon ve in terms of quality and functionality. The king of the dual head system is matrox... not because of benchmarks but because of how well they have it implemented and how good the picture quality is. You can literally do anything with the matrox dualhead, the twinview is REALLY limited in that aspect, the VE is almost as versatile as the G4x0 card but its still not there...
 
Re: How much longer will ATI be in the gaming market?

Re: How much longer will ATI be in the gaming market?

WaterPlanet said:
After the Radeon2, I don't think that ATI would be putting any more money into the 3d gamin market. Even with the Radeon, it's a strong indication that the gaming community does not want to have ATI anymore. If anyone has seen the Cnet video of Steve Jobs introducing the Geforce 3 line of cards, they would know what I am talking about.
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OH PLEASE!!!! The GeForce3 is NOT going to be a STANDARD feature of the Mac line. If you listened carefully, Jobs said it will be a bill to order item, or in simpler terms, an option. A $600 option that is.

Steve Jobs is probably still pissed off at ATI. Last summer some idiot from ATI leaked to the press the new Radeon and Mac combo two days before Jobs was to officially announce it at a conference. In a rage, he ordered that all Radeons be pulled from the new Mac line.

When the time comes, you will probably be able to "Bill To Order" a Radeon2 just like the GF3. Let's just hope it's not $600.
 
Re: Re: How much longer will ATI be in the gaming market?

Re: Re: How much longer will ATI be in the gaming market?

The Grinch said:

Steve Jobs is probably still pissed off at ATI. Last summer some idiot from ATI leaked to the press the new Radeon and Mac combo two days before Jobs was to officially announce it at a conference. In a rage, he ordered that all Radeons be pulled from the new Mac line.
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Steve Jobs is a pisshead and a baby. I agree that someone's head should have been served up on an ATI platter, but his reaction was hysterical-literally! I am sooooooooo tired of his smug little struts upon the stage as he dotes on his new offerings. He is a little weasel-a smart little weasel, but a weasel nonetheless-who made a killing by ripping of Xerox. I want him to have to eat all of his petty little comments. I want him to have to eat a Radeon 2!

There, I've said it. Whew!
 
Re: Re: Re: How much longer will ATI be in the gaming market?

Re: Re: Re: How much longer will ATI be in the gaming market?

otheipion said:
I want him to have to eat a Radeon 2!

There, I've said it. Whew!
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LOL
 
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