All In Wonder Kindergarten Questions I

[winkydink]

Sorry for these dumb questions, but I do not know where else to find answers to them. thanks in advance for any help.

What is the chronology of the different AIW 8500 cards? (which came 1st,2nd,etc.)?

Are all 7500 & 8500 TV Tuners analog? If so does that make them useless for TV reception? Can a analog to digital convertor solve the problem?

I have an 8500-128 but cannot make my VCR play on the computer. I have connected it both S-video and Composite-RCA into the Purple Input Block and nothing with either type connection.
I have downloaded all the latest Catalyst drivers etc. I do not have original driver for the card. I bought it used on eBay.

The TV tuner is not connected to either cable, or antenna. I just want to get the VCR tapes onto the computer. What piece of equipment am I missing?
BTW I do not play games on my puter, but hope yall will eventually direct me how to play a few.

Where can I get a basic definition of what is meant by term "video capture"?
Is that what I want to do to start process of converting (and editing) my many VHS tapes to digital and eventually onto DVDs?

 

[mikiem]

"...what I want to do to start process of converting (and editing) my many VHS tapes to digital and eventually onto DVDs?"

FWIW & IMHO the best way to go is to get a stand-a-lone box, either a DVD recorder [DVDR] or better yet, a combined VCR/DVDR. Both will clean up the picture, & the latter can add more signal enhancement. 1) that way you can keep on with whatever you're doing while the box pumps out DVDs. 2) it captures & embeds CC if that's a plus for you 3) encoding to mpg2 is better (at least on my Panasonic) with longer videos -- can fit 3 hours reasonably 4) NO bitrate calculations needed -- with the box I have just enter the length of the video recording beforehand. On the downside, for better compatibility & to reuse the DVD RW discs, go through added steps to burn to regular DVD as follows...

A) PGCDemux to transfer separate video (.m2v) & audio (AC3 stereo) files from recorded disc to hard drive [use MediaCodeSpeedEdit 1st, & only once to unlock DVD drive copy speed cap (limit)] B) import into Womble MPEG Video Wizard DVD to trim, optionally cut commercials, add equal length chapters, & put into DVD structure -- Without Re-encoding everything. C) burn. Steps (A) & (B) take ~4 minutes each -- of course the Womble step takes longer if editing out commercials, but otherwise a minute to trim & then however long it takes to copy original files from 1 folder to another.

If you want to do it manually, *IF* you can get an older ATI Media Center running for you [check older threads for which versions to use -- most likely you want something prior to the t200 drivers], capture mpg2 at max bit rate (20 something), then research/learn/use DGIndex, AviSynth, & optionally VirtualDub to filter & otherwise clean up your recordings, then encode to mpg2 & create your DVD. Another way to do it is using a stand-a-lone box (or some DV camcorders) to digitize incoming video to DV, transferring the digital output to your PC/laptop via firewire, skipping the tuner card altogether -- it used to be VERY popular. If you can't get the ATI software working for you, research/learn/use another capture app. Head over to videohelp.com & doom9.org.

* * *

"Are all 7500 & 8500 TV Tuners analog? If so does that make them useless for TV reception? Can a analog to digital convertor solve the problem?"

Many tuners are cheap right now [like MSRP $129 -> less than $30 on closeout] because most all are of limited use nowadays, 'least in North America. Analog tuners (like you have) bring in analog signals mostly from sources like cable, sat, & yes your old VCR. Digital tuners bring in Digital OTA (Over The Air), BUT, reception is normally very poor compared to a good tuner in a digital converter box, TV, or most anything else. Many (most?) digital tuners can also receive/decode QAM, which is the digital signal sent over cable. Problem is DRM, which many (most?) cable providers apply to every channel not already available OTA. IMHO your best bet is to figure out what you want to do 1st, then explore how to get there. Start with the sources you have available [i.e. digital OTA, &/or cable, &/or sat etc...] --> figure out whether you just want to view it on your rig, or record --> figure out the quality level you're after --> research [i.e. Google/Bing] to find out what others use --> take all you've learned at that point & figure out what's actually possible given the hardware you have now... you might wind up perfectly happy using your current svid connection with an external box [i.e. cable box etc], or you might find you want/need to upgrade, or you may go in a different direction entirely [like IPTV or just buying/renting DVDs]. HDTV for example is of little use if you can't view it -- capturing & working with video won't be easy if you don't have the hard drive space for the sometimes huge files -- you won't be happy encoding/decoding video in formats like AVC if you don't have the required horsepower.

 

[DA1745]

FWIW & IMHO the best way to go is to get a stand-a-lone box, either a DVD recorder [DVDR] or better yet, a combined VCR/DVDR. Both will clean up the picture, & the latter can add more signal enhancement. 1) that way you can keep on with whatever you're doing while the box pumps out DVDs. 2) it captures & embeds CC if that's a plus for you 3) encoding to mpg2 is better (at least on my Panasonic) with longer videos -- can fit 3 hours reasonably 4) NO bitrate calculations needed -- with the box I have just enter the length of the video recording beforehand. On the downside, for better compatibility & to reuse the DVD RW discs, go through added steps to burn to regular DVD as follows...

A) PGCDemux to transfer separate video (.m2v) & audio (AC3 stereo) files from recorded disc to hard drive [use MediaCodeSpeedEdit 1st, & only once to unlock DVD drive copy speed cap (limit)] B) import into Womble MPEG Video Wizard DVD to trim, optionally cut commercials, add equal length chapters, & put into DVD structure -- Without Re-encoding everything. C) burn. Steps (A) & (B) take ~4 minutes each -- of course the Womble step takes longer if editing out commercials, but otherwise a minute to trim & then however long it takes to copy original files from 1 folder to another.

If you want to do it manually, *IF* you can get an older ATI Media Center running for you [check older threads for which versions to use -- most likely you want something prior to the t200 drivers], capture mpg2 at max bit rate (20 something), then research/learn/use DGIndex, AviSynth, & optionally VirtualDub to filter & otherwise clean up your recordings, then encode to mpg2 & create your DVD. Another way to do it is using a stand-a-lone box (or some DV camcorders) to digitize incoming video to DV, transferring the digital output to your PC/laptop via firewire, skipping the tuner card altogether -- it used to be VERY popular. If you can't get the ATI software working for you, research/learn/use another capture app. Head over to videohelp.com & doom9.org.

* * *


Many tuners are cheap right now [like MSRP $129 -> less than $30 on closeout] because most all are of limited use nowadays, 'least in North America. Analog tuners (like you have) bring in analog signals mostly from sources like cable, sat, & yes your old VCR. Digital tuners bring in Digital OTA (Over The Air), BUT, reception is normally very poor compared to a good tuner in a digital converter box, TV, or most anything else. Many (most?) digital tuners can also receive/decode QAM, which is the digital signal sent over cable. Problem is DRM, which many (most?) cable providers apply to every channel not already available OTA. IMHO your best bet is to figure out what you want to do 1st, then explore how to get there. Start with the sources you have available [i.e. digital OTA, &/or cable, &/or sat etc...] --> figure out whether you just want to view it on your rig, or record --> figure out the quality level you're after --> research [i.e. Google/Bing] to find out what others use --> take all you've learned at that point & figure out what's actually possible given the hardware you have now... you might wind up perfectly happy using your current svid connection with an external box [i.e. cable box etc], or you might find you want/need to upgrade, or you may go in a different direction entirely [like IPTV or just buying/renting DVDs]. HDTV for example is of little use if you can't view it -- capturing & working with video won't be easy if you don't have the hard drive space for the sometimes huge files -- you won't be happy encoding/decoding video in formats like AVC if you don't have the required horsepower.

Wow, that is one hell of a detailed but concise response!

Sorry for these dumb questions, but I do not know where else to find answers to them. thanks in advance for any help.
What is the chronology of the different AIW 8500 cards? (which came 1st,2nd,etc.)?
Are all 7500 & 8500 TV Tuners analog? (YES) If so does that make them useless for TV reception? Can a analog to digital convertor solve the problem? NO, not useless. If you have Cable that still puts out analog signals (you can still use them - I use many of my ATI AIW still this way the picture is actually better still than most of the current Dual tuners or hybrid tuner cards), or if you have cable and rent a STBox from them you can use the Analog Coaxial F-type connector that way). Not sure about the satellites and the use of S-video.
Over the air, yes you can use a DTV converter box to capture the digital OTA SD & HD signals and run that down converted picture into the analog input on tuner cards as long as you get a quality antenna / signal it's actually a very clean picture.

I have an 8500-128 but cannot make my VCR play on the computer. I have connected it both S-video and Composite-RCA into the Purple Input Block and nothing with either type connection.
I have downloaded all the latest Catalyst drivers etc. I do not have original driver for the card. I bought it used on eBay.

Ok, but catalyst drivers are only half of what you need, AND YOU SHOULD NOT BE TRYING TO USE THE LATEST VERSIONS!
1) I would find and install Catalyst 6.2 or EARLIER, and the corresponding WDM drivers and CCC (if you want that).
Your cards are ULTRA ULTRA LEGACY, and I do not believe that they were supported by even the CAtalyst 9.3 drivers... Which was where many cards like the ATI AIW 1900, 1800, X800XT etc etc where stopped at... so installing the latest drivers would be a bad thing so would installing ANYTHING NEWER than CATALYST 6.2. If that's even too new for your card try going back farther into the Catalyst 5.# lines (WHY?) because the Catalyst 6.2 drivers were the last that supported the ANALOG WDM NSP & SP Drivers.
Why does that matter? Well, The second thing you need is the ATI Multimedia Center (MMC) software. And the only versions that work fairly well are the ANALOG VERSIONS. THose in the ATI MMC 9.08 and below! ATI recommends Version MMC 9.06.1... or MMC 9.06
If you go to this page you will see Catalyst 6.11 and MMC9.14 listed. THIS IS A BIG MISTAKE!!!!
CATALYST 6.2 & MMC 9.06 or 9.08 is the highest you want to go or you are going to have big problems.

http://support.amd.com/us/gpudownload/Pages/aiwradeon-prer300-xp.aspx
ALSO, you mentioned that you have already installed the latest drivers... this is going to prevent you from doing a simple Windows uninstall and then installing the drivers we all recommend. SO YOU ARE GOING TO NEED A DRIVER CLEANER. There is a free one listed on GURU3d's site. Called driver cleaner I think. Or you can Pay $10 and get the DRIVER CLEANER PRO (google it) - it's the one i use. If you don't use one to clean out the new catalyst drivers (digital) you'll never get it to work unless you do a fresh install.
Here just to make it a bit simpler:
Here is Catalyst 6.2:
http://support.amd.com/us/gpudownload/Pages/radeonxip-2k.aspx

here is the MMC 9.06 page:
http://support.amd.com/us/gpudownload/Pages/mmc9-6.aspx
http://support.amd.com/us/kbarticles/Pages/737-20655InstallingMultimediaCenter.aspx


2) So finding a version of MMC is important, because if you are trying to see your VCR data input on the screen somewhere you need a program that is going to be able to detect, decode and capture it... MMC does this.
There are others (free and otherwise but...).

3) you mentioned you did not have the original CD. Do you have any AIW original CD's at all? The reason is that when you download or the DVD DECODER file or "Encoder Package" and run the file (it is what installs the Cyberlink Decoder) - A DECODER IS MANDATORY, the software won't work without it. It doesn't have to be Cyberlink's from ATI... but in order to use the one that ATI offers they required customers to insert and validate with an original CD before the actual decoder is downloaded from ATI
You can use this program from windows (called the Windows XP Video Decoder Checkup Utility) - to see what decoders you have if any and which is set as default.
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/...ac-0ab6-4990-943d-627e6ade9fcb&displaylang=en
Nvidia sells a decoder. Or maybe you can just borrow someones ATI CD.

After you get all that set up (un-installed, Run a Driver cleaner, Installed Catalyst 6.2, WDM, CCC, DAO, DVD Decoder, and MMC 9.06) then in the settings of MMC there (SETUP, TV Setup, Video, Connection type change that to S-video or composite - which ever you are using).

The TV tuner is not connected to either cable, or antenna. I just want to get the VCR tapes onto the computer. What piece of equipment am I missing?
BTW I do not play games on my puter, but hope yall will eventually direct me how to play a few. You could also use the cable input as long as you change the MMC's TV channel to 3 or 4 what ever you have the VCR set up to display on TV ch 3 or 4.
In that case you'd leave the Connection type to Analog TV input. they all work fine.

I forgot then it's just a matter of using MMC's RECORD function, just as if you were recording TV.

Where can I get a basic definition of what is meant by term "video capture"?
Is that what I want to do to start process of converting (and editing) my many VHS tapes to digital and eventually onto DVDs?

Also, I assume you are using XP, as the All-in-Wonder cards are not supported (other than as just graphics cards in Vista or W7). (Technically in Vista you can use Snapstream's Beyond TV 4.9 + for $99.99) but for MMC you can only use XP and before.

Don't want you to waste & throw too much good money after BAD but HERE IS A LINK to buy an ALL-In-Wonder CD. Which would contain all the Catalyst Version, MMC, DVD decoder (or you could use it to get the newer version of the decoder). for $5.00 plus $7.56 shipping ($12.56).
Here's the X800XT All-In-Wonder installation CD It's more $10.00 + $7.56.
http://drhadmin.digitalriver.com/store/atina/en_US/pd/productID.125458500