HDTV Wonder Discussion
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EMunEeE
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ATI HDTV Wonder Review @ ET
ATI HDTV Wonder Review @ ET
http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1558,1615327,00.asp
ATI HDTV Wonder Review @ ET
http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1558,1615327,00.asp
Liuke
New member
It's looking pretty good though they have some kinks to work out.
Not sure if I'd bite at about $200. I will admit that's much cheaper than buying a whole HDTV though. It just needs a bit more polish that can hopefully be fixed via software. Acccording to Anandtech, it looks like it always run in time-shifting mode which I don't like. I couldn't confirm that in Extremetech’s review though. It would also be nice if they implemented some EPG specific to the HDTV programs and combined the regular TV app w/ the new DTV app instead of having them separate. Also, transcoding and recording options seem a bit limited and goofy right now. They also didn’t update the Remote Wonder to support the new HDTV functionality so the button are the same and there’s no specific button to start the DTV app unless you program one in.
Well, I’m just wondering if the HDTV Wonder will be relegated to crappy software and support like the TV Wonder products have been plagued by. It does seem to fall into a similar product line. Just hope it doesn't suffer the same fate since this is basically a “high-end TV Wonder” cause it looks like they can’t even integrate an HDTV tuner onto an AIW card right now due to the size and interference issues. Perhaps that will change in the future.
I'll probably wait for a 2nd generation/revision of the HDTV Wonder for them to work out some "first try" issues.
Not sure if I'd bite at about $200. I will admit that's much cheaper than buying a whole HDTV though. It just needs a bit more polish that can hopefully be fixed via software. Acccording to Anandtech, it looks like it always run in time-shifting mode which I don't like. I couldn't confirm that in Extremetech’s review though. It would also be nice if they implemented some EPG specific to the HDTV programs and combined the regular TV app w/ the new DTV app instead of having them separate. Also, transcoding and recording options seem a bit limited and goofy right now. They also didn’t update the Remote Wonder to support the new HDTV functionality so the button are the same and there’s no specific button to start the DTV app unless you program one in.
Well, I’m just wondering if the HDTV Wonder will be relegated to crappy software and support like the TV Wonder products have been plagued by. It does seem to fall into a similar product line. Just hope it doesn't suffer the same fate since this is basically a “high-end TV Wonder” cause it looks like they can’t even integrate an HDTV tuner onto an AIW card right now due to the size and interference issues. Perhaps that will change in the future.
I'll probably wait for a 2nd generation/revision of the HDTV Wonder for them to work out some "first try" issues.
Someotherdude
New member
I had a TV wonder pci and then upgraded to the Wonder pro. The picture quality is definitely better, and as long as I stick with mmc 8.2, everything worked. So yes, it's an improvement.fanbanlo said:
Shock-n-Awe
New member
200 bucks is higher than i expected it to be.
i skimmed over the reviews,and wonder if anyone can answer this.
the pics show only an S-video out, wtf?
or will i be able to use the DVI to component dongle on my 9600, to get HD out to my TV?
i have cable now and i like it and im not going to drop it anytime soon,
im just asking this for people who might be in the market for an hdtv .
would they be able to skip over the set top box, and still get the same quality though component, while savng a few bucks?
or will s-video be the best they can get?
if the s-video is it, that sucks fat goats
i skimmed over the reviews,and wonder if anyone can answer this.
the pics show only an S-video out, wtf?
or will i be able to use the DVI to component dongle on my 9600, to get HD out to my TV?
i have cable now and i like it and im not going to drop it anytime soon,
im just asking this for people who might be in the market for an hdtv .
would they be able to skip over the set top box, and still get the same quality though component, while savng a few bucks?
or will s-video be the best they can get?
if the s-video is it, that sucks fat goats
Liuke
New member
From what I could gather in the reviews, the outputs on the HDTV Wonder are like most of the current AIW's. It has the purple colored connector that attaches to ATI's purple breakout box which gives you S-Video, composite, and stereo outputs. Looks like they haven't updated the breakout box. Not sure if they can either, but yeah that's another disappointment I didn't think about.
PGHammer
New member
Maybe...
Maybe...
Since it ties in to MMC (albeit as a separate application), why wouldn't it support the same encoding options ATI TV does today (MPEG-2, MPEG-4, WinMedia, etc.)?
Maybe...
rbV5 said:Thanks for the heads up!
OTA ATSC only, so I guess that puts the cable\sat box support issue to rest.
*No EPG for the HD
I hope thats incorrect.
I guess it captures using ATI VCR, and then you transcode to MPEG-2 for HD resolution..(so much for proprietary file format) I guess through the library applet. I was hoping to transcode directly to WMV HD, but it looks like you'll have to run MPEG-2 through WME.
Nice review, does clear up some things. Unless I missed it, I didn't see any info on system requirements or CPU load while viewing/timeshifting/recording which would have been nice.
Since it ties in to MMC (albeit as a separate application), why wouldn't it support the same encoding options ATI TV does today (MPEG-2, MPEG-4, WinMedia, etc.)?
ShiningArcanine
New member
rbV5 said:I'm making assumptions here btwIt works differently, according to the reviews I saw timeshifting is "always" enabled. Since the transport stream must use the PCI bus, I'm assuming that the transport stream must be transcoding to ATI VCR on the fly. Since the transport stream itself is a superset of MPEG-2, this transcoding doesn't require much processing. Apparently, for whatever reason, this must be why you can't capture the transport stream directly...it never makes it to the hardrive.
All the VCR files go to the library, which appears to be your only access to the files? Thats where you transcode the files from and burn to DVDR/CDR from as well. So it looks to me that you don't have access to the PVR application, or capture presets...its cap to ATI VCR always...transcode from the library for ATSC.
Since it transcodes full HD resolution to MPEG-2, that leaves open encoding using the codec/encoder of your choice. Transcoding directly to HD WMV 1080p or 720p faster than real-time would be great, I'm just not sure its possible without serious hardware assist.
Faster than real time encoding into HD WMV 1080p would be sweet. While they are at it, maybe they could add in faster than realtime 24bit 5.1 WMA encoding as well.
Edit: I just remembered that ATI said that they would need Microsoft to update Windows in order for them to accelerate WMV. Time to go submit a product suggestion to Microsoft...
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Re: HDTV Wonder Discussion
Except for the additional channels possible.
Or the cost and complexity of HDTV OTA Antennas....remember the good old days before CATV where your house had a huge antenna and a rotator to point it toward the station you wanted to watch?
Or for the multipath reflections which are much more prevalent in urban areas for OTA HDTV, and while theoretically less critical are , in practice, more critical due to the difference in signal levels between good stations as well as between reflections of the same station...inadequate multipath rejection capability in inexpensive tuner systems.
QAM PC HDTV is the Holy Grail for the success of these sort of cards.
doctj said:
Except for the additional channels possible.
Or the cost and complexity of HDTV OTA Antennas....remember the good old days before CATV where your house had a huge antenna and a rotator to point it toward the station you wanted to watch?
Or for the multipath reflections which are much more prevalent in urban areas for OTA HDTV, and while theoretically less critical are , in practice, more critical due to the difference in signal levels between good stations as well as between reflections of the same station...inadequate multipath rejection capability in inexpensive tuner systems.
QAM PC HDTV is the Holy Grail for the success of these sort of cards.
Re: HDTV Wonder Discussion
Yes, but for folks who live in an area where the signals originate from substantially different directions, they will need a rotator.
Obviously, Forest Grove enjoys what amounts to a pretty unanimous line of sight to the stations broadcasting from the Portland West Hills where all the local HDTV signals originate. You're lucky.
This is just not the case in places like Dallas, Los Angeles or the surrounding areas, and numerous other large metro areas, or even Manhattan(where multipath reflections are horrid and will only get worse when transmission power is ramped up to coincide with the reduction in Analog broadcast)
Right now, most HDTV signals are not broadcast at the full FCC Authorized signal strength. Even countering for vastly different maximum signal strengths between any number of unique stations as well as the independent levels for any particular station causes enough of a problem as we see from much of the pioneering work done with several cards over at www.avsforum.com.
And again, while the chipsets are good in these PC Tuners, the rest of the circuitry is not nearly as robust as that in HDTV Television Receivers for multipath rejection, mostly due to power availability and circuit board real-estate.
Surely, it will get better as HDTV matures in common use, but for now, good antennas and the ability to aim them is very important for the majority of HDTV viewers who want HDTV reception as stable and predictable as they are used to with Analog. (Those that remember OTA NTSC anyway, so few not equipped with CATV or Satellite these days)
As usual, I will likely be one of the "early adopters" of PC HDTV (not as early as many, of course), but I sure look forward to the time when PC HDTV is as easy, robust and reliable as Digital Cable Ready / CableCARD Television seems to be from Cable Labs certification testing results.
Yes, but for folks who live in an area where the signals originate from substantially different directions, they will need a rotator.
Obviously, Forest Grove enjoys what amounts to a pretty unanimous line of sight to the stations broadcasting from the Portland West Hills where all the local HDTV signals originate. You're lucky.
This is just not the case in places like Dallas, Los Angeles or the surrounding areas, and numerous other large metro areas, or even Manhattan(where multipath reflections are horrid and will only get worse when transmission power is ramped up to coincide with the reduction in Analog broadcast)
Right now, most HDTV signals are not broadcast at the full FCC Authorized signal strength. Even countering for vastly different maximum signal strengths between any number of unique stations as well as the independent levels for any particular station causes enough of a problem as we see from much of the pioneering work done with several cards over at www.avsforum.com.
And again, while the chipsets are good in these PC Tuners, the rest of the circuitry is not nearly as robust as that in HDTV Television Receivers for multipath rejection, mostly due to power availability and circuit board real-estate.
Surely, it will get better as HDTV matures in common use, but for now, good antennas and the ability to aim them is very important for the majority of HDTV viewers who want HDTV reception as stable and predictable as they are used to with Analog. (Those that remember OTA NTSC anyway, so few not equipped with CATV or Satellite these days)
As usual, I will likely be one of the "early adopters" of PC HDTV (not as early as many, of course), but I sure look forward to the time when PC HDTV is as easy, robust and reliable as Digital Cable Ready / CableCARD Television seems to be from Cable Labs certification testing results.