Nvidia RTX DLSS/Ray Tracing Discussion - Page 35

NIGELG · Dec 11, 2021, 06:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SIrPauly

Was fooling around with Nvidia Image Scaling with GodFall and also looks good based on the title has a nice anti-aliasing foundation. NIS offers a bit more resolution flexibility and sharpening flexibility, and also a Global driver setting. Amd's is more seamless and easier to understand in game. These features are very welcomed if there is a solid anti-aliasing foundation like GodFall and kind of horrid in a title like Horizon Zero Dawn based on the poor Taa implementation.

Can one use NIS for Games like Enderal?

SIrPauly · Dec 11, 2021, 07:39 AM

Don't have it! But I did try older titles like Supreme Commander and even really old games like Empire Earth, just to see if it would work and it did! Give it a try and let me know!

edit:
In case you don"t know I would recommend to enable the NIS overlay. When it's blue, the game is just using the NIS sharpening, and when it's green, the image scaling is enabled.

SIrPauly · Dec 12, 2021, 01:15 AM

Going to learn how to use this image quality comparison tool based on words and subjective views are kinda meaningless.

https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/technologies/icat/

**Trunks0** · Dec 12, 2021, 01:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SIrPauly

Going to learn how to use this image quality comparison tool based on words and subjective views are kinda meaningless.

https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/technologies/icat/

Wow that's allot easier than jumping into editing tools

. Thanks man!

*edit*
Makes comparing my zoom AMID EVIL NIS & FSR pics uber easy. Downloaded and used with this program, the difference are super easy to spot. Even though IMGUR re-compressed them

https://imgur.com/dGyv9oQ
https://imgur.com/5Wlf6JQ

SIrPauly · Dec 12, 2021, 01:40 AM

Would appreciate more examples.

**Trunks0** · Dec 12, 2021, 01:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SIrPauly

Would appreciate more examples.

Got a game you would like to try taking some pics in? If I have it, I don't mind trying to frame a good comparison shot. I can do almost anything windowed using the Lossless Scaling app as it supports both FSR and NIS. How I compared AMID EVIL

SIrPauly · Dec 12, 2021, 02:04 AM

Any thing with FSR vs NIS examples and point out the differences would be nice.

SIrPauly · Dec 14, 2021, 08:39 AM

Just because a Dlss.Dll iteration is newer doesn't necessarily mean it's better for a specific title. With version 2.2.6 in Death Stranding there is much less or curbed particle trailing but 2.3.5 when standing still, it's very noticeable and extreme:

https://imgur.com/gallery/G3H0xrZ

Seyiji · Dec 14, 2021, 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SIrPauly

Just because a Dlss.Dll iteration is newer doesn't necessarily mean it's better for a specific title. With version 2.2.6 in Death Stranding there is much less or curbed particle trailing but 2.3.5 when standing still, it's very noticeable and extreme:

https://imgur.com/gallery/G3H0xrZ

That's Zalgo as frig

Ḑ̤̗͙̜̦̫e̱̩̺a̡͎͕͉̳͇̬t̴̹͓̺̦̩h͖̮̥ ͚̦̰̩̣͎̼S̡͚͎t̹̗̱̥͎r͎͎a̷͓n̹̰̭̯͞d̴̖̮ín͙̥͚̖̱ͅg̲̼͉̥̱̪͘ ̹̦̼̀ȩ͇̥̱̬̹̼ẖ̡͉͉̭͚ :̦3̀

NIGELG · Dec 15, 2021, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SIrPauly

Don't have it! But I did try older titles like Supreme Commander and even really old games like Empire Earth, just to see if it would work and it did! Give it a try and let me know!

edit:
In case you don"t know I would recommend to enable the NIS overlay. When it's blue, the game is just using the NIS sharpening, and when it's green, the image scaling is enabled.

I tried it for Enderal. The native resolution and AA in game maxed out looks much better in this game than NIS.

Sharpening at 50 and 67% didn't look good to me.

SIrPauly · Dec 16, 2021, 12:24 AM

What is your native resolution? And did you try 85% and 77% scale? The NIS sharpener is new and much more robust and setting it at 50 is too high, try between 10-20.

**Trunks0** · Dec 16, 2021, 12:30 AM

You should probably set the sharpening pretty low(or off). Lanczos has nasty habit of introducing allot of ringing the more taps it has. And from my understanding, nVidia hasn't done anything to dering it.

If I remember right. In the shots I linked above(which are 400% zoomed to get around IMGUR's compression of the PNG's into JPEG's), the NIS shot is with sharpening set to no sharpening and FSR with sharpening @ 1 using the LossesScaling App (which was settable by 0.1 increments from 0 to 2. Which was also reversed in older versions. So 2 was off and 0 was max... glad that has changed in newer versions lol)

In my shots you can see a loss of colour detail caused by the ringing artifact in NIS. Noticeable on shadow edges especially and the enemy gibbs. It's WAY harder to see this though when your actually playing, it just manifests as NIS looking oversharp.

demo · Dec 16, 2021, 12:49 AM

At 4k 85%, I had sharpening at 5%. It's very aggressive and looks horrid any higher imo.

SIrPauly · Dec 16, 2021, 01:46 AM

Personally use 10% if the title has a good anti-aliasing foundation, 15-20 percent if I am enhancing an older title with SGSSAA. Zero if the title has a poor anti-aliasing foundation.

There is a work around if one isn't using scaling and desire to use the older sharpener.

demo · Dec 16, 2021, 01:59 AM

Yeh 10% is passable, really depends on monitor config etc.

You know what Pauly, I hadn't thought of using it with titles where SGSSAA and the like can be forced. You're a genius, can't wait to try it.

SIrPauly · Dec 16, 2021, 02:04 AM

I still play Supreme Commander and Supreme commander 2 and use enhance SGSSAA in these.

demo · Dec 16, 2021, 04:04 AM

Just tried NIS on my monitor at 1600p 85% and Nvidias sharpening is a no go. Way too sharp at any level. Added a touch of sharpening via reshade using the ported 'AMD FidelityFX CAS' filter, which looks great.

SIrPauly · Dec 16, 2021, 05:21 AM

That's a good filter over-all and virtually no performance hit. I believe it was created by Timothy Lottes. My favorite filter is the Sharpen + filter in GeForce Experience but there is a noticeable performance hit.

NIGELG · Dec 16, 2021, 05:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SIrPauly

What is your native resolution? And did you try 85% and 77% scale? The NIS sharpener is new and much more robust and setting it at 50 is too high, try between 10-20.

Native resolution is 1440p. The Skyrim engine is so old so I don't think it needs it but thanks for the tip. I will try it at 10 to 20.

SIrPauly · Dec 16, 2021, 06:03 AM

Or less, the new NIS filter is very aggressive and tolerances are subjective. I haven't checked 1440p or 1080p native resolutions either only 4k and liked 85 and 77% scaling considering the performance bump, only with titles that have a nice anti-aliasing ability. The NIS filter may need maturity and refinements based on how aggressive it is.

SIrPauly · Dec 16, 2021, 09:34 AM

Going to fool with my 1080p native monitor, NIS in a few titles and DLSS in Horizon Zero Dawn with Quality, Balanced and Performance.

NIGELG · Dec 16, 2021, 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SIrPauly

Going to fool with my 1080p native monitor, NIS in a few titles and DLSS in Horizon Zero Dawn with Quality, Balanced and Performance.

I tried NIS in Enderal and it looks like native. The performance in certain areas suck though so I keep reminding myself it's just a badly optimised Skyrim mod but the game is addictive as hell and it is much better than Skyrim in story, gameplay and role playing.

badsykes · Dec 17, 2021, 03:14 AM

As i barked around about 3000 series being underpowered for RTX

Dying Light 2 PC Specs Revealed – RTX 3080 GPU Needed to Run Ray Tracing at [email protected]

https://wccftech.com/dying-light-2-p...ng-at-1080p60/

Megaman · Dec 17, 2021, 05:08 AM

**acroig** · Dec 17, 2021, 07:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by badsykes

[b]As i barked around about 3000 series being underpowered for RTX

Yeah but you've been doing that for a while yet some of us have been playing great with our 3000 series card with RTX and DLSS so keep barking, we'll keep playing.

badsykes · Dec 17, 2021, 07:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by acroig

Yeah but you've been doing that for a while yet some of us have been playing great with our 3000 series card with RTX and DLSS so keep barking, we'll keep playing.

Agreed ...

The 2080ti / 3070 would have been ideal RTX cards for 1080p at 60fps but i bought also a 1440p monitor.I can't convince myself to pay 2000$ for 60fps RTX 1440p..It seems that RTX is advancing to the new level.With a 3080 you can do "only" 1080p 60fps

The easiest buy and the longest life vga's cards i had were the ones bought at the launch day.No more inner fightings and scrutiny.

SIrPauly · Dec 17, 2021, 07:37 AM

I never thought I would see a Global Driver ability that works in virtually every title deemed a negative.

**acroig** · Dec 17, 2021, 07:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by badsykes

It seems that RTX is advancing to the new level.With a 3080 you can do "only" 1080p 60fps

But, again, that's not true thanks to DLSS.

SIrPauly · Dec 17, 2021, 08:10 AM

In the comment section:

Quote:

Originally Posted by HardwareUnboxed

Just to clarify here given there's a bit of confusion in the comments, when I said NIS was "redundant" I was specifically talking about the NIS SDK that game developers can implement in their games. The driver feature is obviously not redundant and like I said, the main (or only) advantage NIS has is that it's integrated into the driver

This isn't true: NIS offers more upscaling resolutions like 85% scaling and also offers sharpening flexibility from turning it off at 0 or add to one's subjective tolerances. And can change sharpening in game with Geforce Experience as well.

NIGELG · Dec 17, 2021, 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by badsykes

As i barked around about 3000 series being underpowered for RTX

Dying Light 2 PC Specs Revealed – RTX 3080 GPU Needed to Run Ray Tracing at [email protected]

https://wccftech.com/dying-light-2-p...ng-at-1080p60/

I am sure I will not be playing that game within 5 years from now or even longer. I haven't even started the first Dying Light yet.

By that time most of us will have next generation cards.

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Dec 11, 2021, 07:39 AM	#1022
SIrPauly Did someone say, RGSSAA? Join Date: May 2001 Location: New England Posts: 17,116	Don't have it! But I did try older titles like Supreme Commander and even really old games like Empire Earth, just to see if it would work and it did! Give it a try and let me know! edit: In case you don"t know I would recommend to enable the NIS overlay. When it's blue, the game is just using the NIS sharpening, and when it's green, the image scaling is enabled. __________________ *Really enjoy 3d gaming flexibility; a gamer's best friend!* Last edited by SIrPauly : Dec 11, 2021 at 07:51 AM.

Dec 12, 2021, 01:15 AM	#1023
SIrPauly Did someone say, RGSSAA? Join Date: May 2001 Location: New England Posts: 17,116	Going to learn how to use this image quality comparison tool based on words and subjective views are kinda meaningless. https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/technologies/icat/ __________________ *Really enjoy 3d gaming flexibility; a gamer's best friend!*

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Dec 12, 2021, 01:40 AM	#1025
SIrPauly Did someone say, RGSSAA? Join Date: May 2001 Location: New England Posts: 17,116	Would appreciate more examples. __________________ *Really enjoy 3d gaming flexibility; a gamer's best friend!*

Dec 12, 2021, 02:04 AM	#1027
SIrPauly Did someone say, RGSSAA? Join Date: May 2001 Location: New England Posts: 17,116	Any thing with FSR vs NIS examples and point out the differences would be nice. __________________ *Really enjoy 3d gaming flexibility; a gamer's best friend!*

Dec 14, 2021, 08:39 AM	#1028
SIrPauly Did someone say, RGSSAA? Join Date: May 2001 Location: New England Posts: 17,116	Just because a Dlss.Dll iteration is newer doesn't necessarily mean it's better for a specific title. With version 2.2.6 in Death Stranding there is much less or curbed particle trailing but 2.3.5 when standing still, it's very noticeable and extreme: https://imgur.com/gallery/G3H0xrZ __________________ *Really enjoy 3d gaming flexibility; a gamer's best friend!*

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Dec 16, 2021, 12:24 AM	#1031
SIrPauly Did someone say, RGSSAA? Join Date: May 2001 Location: New England Posts: 17,116	What is your native resolution? And did you try 85% and 77% scale? The NIS sharpener is new and much more robust and setting it at 50 is too high, try between 10-20. __________________ *Really enjoy 3d gaming flexibility; a gamer's best friend!*

Dec 16, 2021, 12:30 AM	#1032
Trunks0 Keeping an open mind Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Vancouver, B.C., Canada Posts: 21,342	You should probably set the sharpening pretty low(or off). Lanczos has nasty habit of introducing allot of ringing the more taps it has. And from my understanding, nVidia hasn't done anything to dering it. If I remember right. In the shots I linked above(which are 400% zoomed to get around IMGUR's compression of the PNG's into JPEG's), the NIS shot is with sharpening set to no sharpening and FSR with sharpening @ 1 using the LossesScaling App (which was settable by 0.1 increments from 0 to 2. Which was also reversed in older versions. So 2 was off and 0 was max... glad that has changed in newer versions lol) In my shots you can see a loss of colour detail caused by the ringing artifact in NIS. Noticeable on shadow edges especially and the enemy gibbs. It's WAY harder to see this though when your actually playing, it just manifests as NIS looking oversharp. __________________ -Trunks0 not speaking for all and if I am wrong I never said it. (plz note that is meant as a joke) System: Asus TUF Gaming X570-Pro - AMD Ryzen 7 5800x - Noctua NH-D15S chromax.Black - 32gb of G.Skill Trident Z NEO - Asus DRW-24F1ST DVD±RW - Samsung 850 Evo 250Gib - 4TiB Seagate - XFX MERC 308 Radeon RX 6600XT - Creative AE-5 Plus - Windows 10 64-bit

Dec 16, 2021, 12:49 AM	#1033
demo space cadet Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Melbourne Posts: 28,123	At 4k 85%, I had sharpening at 5%. It's very aggressive and looks horrid any higher imo. __________________ ____________________

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Dec 16, 2021, 01:46 AM	#1034
SIrPauly Did someone say, RGSSAA? Join Date: May 2001 Location: New England Posts: 17,116	Personally use 10% if the title has a good anti-aliasing foundation, 15-20 percent if I am enhancing an older title with SGSSAA. Zero if the title has a poor anti-aliasing foundation. There is a work around if one isn't using scaling and desire to use the older sharpener. __________________ *Really enjoy 3d gaming flexibility; a gamer's best friend!*

Dec 16, 2021, 01:59 AM	#1035
demo space cadet Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Melbourne Posts: 28,123	Yeh 10% is passable, really depends on monitor config etc. You know what Pauly, I hadn't thought of using it with titles where SGSSAA and the like can be forced. You're a genius, can't wait to try it. __________________ ____________________

Dec 16, 2021, 02:04 AM	#1036
SIrPauly Did someone say, RGSSAA? Join Date: May 2001 Location: New England Posts: 17,116	I still play Supreme Commander and Supreme commander 2 and use enhance SGSSAA in these. __________________ *Really enjoy 3d gaming flexibility; a gamer's best friend!*

Dec 16, 2021, 04:04 AM	#1037
demo space cadet Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Melbourne Posts: 28,123	Just tried NIS on my monitor at 1600p 85% and Nvidias sharpening is a no go. Way too sharp at any level. Added a touch of sharpening via reshade using the ported 'AMD FidelityFX CAS' filter, which looks great. __________________ ____________________

Dec 16, 2021, 05:21 AM	#1038
SIrPauly Did someone say, RGSSAA? Join Date: May 2001 Location: New England Posts: 17,116	That's a good filter over-all and virtually no performance hit. I believe it was created by Timothy Lottes. My favorite filter is the Sharpen + filter in GeForce Experience but there is a noticeable performance hit. __________________ *Really enjoy 3d gaming flexibility; a gamer's best friend!*

Dec 16, 2021, 06:03 AM	#1040
SIrPauly Did someone say, RGSSAA? Join Date: May 2001 Location: New England Posts: 17,116	Or less, the new NIS filter is very aggressive and tolerances are subjective. I haven't checked 1440p or 1080p native resolutions either only 4k and liked 85 and 77% scaling considering the performance bump, only with titles that have a nice anti-aliasing ability. The NIS filter may need maturity and refinements based on how aggressive it is. __________________ *Really enjoy 3d gaming flexibility; a gamer's best friend!*

Dec 16, 2021, 09:34 AM	#1041
SIrPauly Did someone say, RGSSAA? Join Date: May 2001 Location: New England Posts: 17,116	Going to fool with my 1080p native monitor, NIS in a few titles and DLSS in Horizon Zero Dawn with Quality, Balanced and Performance. __________________ *Really enjoy 3d gaming flexibility; a gamer's best friend!*

Dec 17, 2021, 03:14 AM	#1043
badsykes Radeon Arctic Islands Join Date: May 2007 Location: Romania, Constanta Posts: 6,407	As i barked around about 3000 series being underpowered for RTX Dying Light 2 PC Specs Revealed – RTX 3080 GPU Needed to Run Ray Tracing at [email protected] https://wccftech.com/dying-light-2-p...ng-at-1080p60/ __________________ "There is no beggining, and there is no end.There is no alpha, and there is no omega.You never began, and you will never end."

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Dec 17, 2021, 05:08 AM	#1044
Megaman Packing heat! Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Down Under Posts: 9,628

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Dec 17, 2021, 07:37 AM	#1047
SIrPauly Did someone say, RGSSAA? Join Date: May 2001 Location: New England Posts: 17,116	I never thought I would see a Global Driver ability that works in virtually every title deemed a negative. __________________ *Really enjoy 3d gaming flexibility; a gamer's best friend!*

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