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Old Jul 24, 2021, 09:41 AM   #91
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Originally Posted by Fuku2 View Post
Yeah. Trying to get off of the ladder in the elevator shaft and falling every time.
Haha... there is that, but at least it has one-button quicksaves. Another old-school feature.
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Old Jul 24, 2021, 10:04 AM   #92
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Originally Posted by Nagorak View Post
I think I liked it because it was shorter and I liked the concept of playing one of the security guys. It wasn't so grandiose in its vision, as I recall. You're basically a security guard thrown into a **** situation that you have to try to get out of.

With that being said, it's been a long time since I played, so my memory could be faulty.



The fact that HL2 is not finished makes me hesitate to recommend it to anyone. As you said in the other part of your post that I cut out, a lot of the innovative stuff in HL2 became standard fare so it hasn't aged that well. The story of the main game also wasn't that fleshed out, it was more take a tour of strange places. That being said, the episodes were great, but they're not finished, so what the **** is the point?

Everyone still loves Valve for some reason, but they are permanently on my **** list for not finishing the game. Whatever else they've done, the failure to finish the trilogy showed a great deal of contempt for their fans/supporters. Just abandoning a project like that, for no legitimate reason (i.e. running out of money), is something that you just don't do. It's clear that they had grown to have a "we don't owe you anything" attitude, and in fact that was not true, they did owe us an ending for having purchased the main game and the two previous episodes.
This is an excellent post that sums up how I feel about Valve not concluding the series.

They have no proper reason not to finish Half Life.
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Old Jul 24, 2021, 02:13 PM   #93
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Originally Posted by NIGELG View Post
This is an excellent post that sums up how I feel about Valve not concluding the series.

They have no proper reason not to finish Half Life.
Have you played Half-Life Alyx? I think they intend to go on with the series, but the end of that game drastically changed the outcome of Half-Life 2: Episode 2. They likely can avoid a traditional Half-Life 3 and go sideways but forward at the same time.
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Old Jul 24, 2021, 02:44 PM   #94
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Originally Posted by Jet Black View Post
Have you played Half-Life Alyx? I think they intend to go on with the series, but the end of that game drastically changed the outcome of Half-Life 2: Episode 2. They likely can avoid a traditional Half-Life 3 and go sideways but forward at the same time.
If they release it as a non VR game I might bite.
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Old Jul 24, 2021, 02:47 PM   #95
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I'm kind of on the fence with what you say. I agree with a lot but I never bought into this "they owe us" mindset. When I bought each of the previous games I got what was owed to me. When I was given Alyx I got more than was owed to me.

As much as I like the idea of another HL the bar that has been set is so high it will probably be a let down and faced with the choice of too few games but excellent memories or the choice of watching it milked 'til it becomes another worn out has-been I'm not sure the present situation isn't better. I'd rather only have a new game if they can really knock it out of the park.
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Old Jul 24, 2021, 03:22 PM   #96
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If they release it as a non VR game I might bite.
I doubt that will happen. In fact I expect that the next Half-Life game will also be VR.
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Old Jul 24, 2021, 04:03 PM   #97
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Originally Posted by Jet Black View Post
I doubt that will happen. In fact I expect that the next Half-Life game will also be VR.

I'd be onboard for that but it would tick a lot of people off. A smarter move might be HL3 in pancake and a seperate Alyx sequel for VR. Hopefully sometime in my lifetime.
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Old Jul 24, 2021, 06:16 PM   #98
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A smarter move might be HL3 in pancake and a seperate Alyx sequel for VR.
As much as I loved Alyx in VR, I do hope HL3 is pancake.
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Old Jul 25, 2021, 11:23 AM   #99
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I'm kind of on the fence with what you say. I agree with a lot but I never bought into this "they owe us" mindset. When I bought each of the previous games I got what was owed to me. When I was given Alyx I got more than was owed to me.
I disagree. If each game was a complete package/story, then that would be fine. But the way they ended ep2 on a cliffhanger, that it simply was not a complete story, they had a moral obligation to release ep3.
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Old Jul 26, 2021, 11:36 AM   #100
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Everyone still loves Valve for some reason, but they are permanently on my **** list for not finishing the game. Whatever else they've done, the failure to finish the trilogy showed a great deal of contempt for their fans/supporters. Just abandoning a project like that, for no legitimate reason (i.e. running out of money), is something that you just don't do. It's clear that they had grown to have a "we don't owe you anything" attitude, and in fact that was not true, they did owe us an ending for having purchased the main game and the two previous episodes.
While I agree with you I think they really fear a Mess Effect 3 backlash and they have too much to lose at this point.
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Old Jul 26, 2021, 12:36 PM   #101
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While I agree with you I think they really fear a Mess Effect 3 backlash and they have too much to lose at this point.
They don't need to "finish" the series, or answer all the questions. They can keep the mysteries going, but still cap off the city 17 stuff and move Gordon on to new adventures, or even just suggest that he will.
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Old Jul 26, 2021, 12:41 PM   #102
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Gordon can **** OFF, HL3 will be all about Alyx.
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Old Jul 26, 2021, 02:12 PM   #103
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While I agree with you I think they really fear a Mess Effect 3 backlash and they have too much to lose at this point.
I don't know about that. What's going to tank credibility harder - promising fans (their source of income) a game and not only not delivering, but ignoring God knows how many requests for reasons why?

Or delivering a game that "might" not live up to the previously set standard?

I'm not even a huge HL2 fan (HL1 yes) but that move...it's left me wondering why fans allowed them to survive as a viable company. They straight up lied and ignored any attempts to discuss it afterward. Valve will always be a garbage company in my book after that.
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Old Jul 26, 2021, 02:12 PM   #104
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Gordon can **** OFF, HL3 will be all about Alyx.
Alyx is the Much better character. By a lot.
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Old Jul 26, 2021, 02:19 PM   #105
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I feel better about having played and finished Duke Nukem Forever after years of hype, development hell, limbo and a shitty release, than I do about pining over Half-Life 3 over the last fourteen years. I adore the Half-Life series, but I really, really want Valve to get over their teenage anxiety and finish the damn story.

I've never understood what they're so afraid of. If it turns out a bad game, release it and be done with it. There is absolutely no need for Half-Life 3 to be another stroke of genius.
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Old Jul 26, 2021, 02:20 PM   #106
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I wonder how they are going to handle HL: Alyx changing the ending for EP 2?

Most HL2 players haven't played Alyx, so it is going to be really weird for them.
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Old Jul 26, 2021, 03:15 PM   #107
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I wonder how they are going to handle HL: Alyx changing the ending for EP 2?

Most HL2 players haven't played Alyx, so it is going to be really weird for them.
By the time any Half-Life sequel is released, HL2 is about 20 years old. I don't think it should matter much what Half-Life players remember, they're going to need a reminder of wtf was going on in that universe anyway.
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Old Jul 26, 2021, 04:20 PM   #108
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I wonder how they are going to handle HL: Alyx changing the ending for EP 2?

Most HL2 players haven't played Alyx, so it is going to be really weird for them.
Valve did say that it would eventually come out as a standard game.
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Old Jul 26, 2021, 04:50 PM   #109
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Valve did say that it would eventually come out as a standard game.
No, they predicted that modders would make it playable in 2d.


And you would not want to play the game like that, kb+mouse would trivialize every combat encounter, making the game kind of boring.
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Old Jul 26, 2021, 05:07 PM   #110
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No, they predicted that modders would make it playable in 2d.


And you would not want to play the game like that, kb+mouse would trivialize every combat encounter, making the game kind of boring.
But that is like the entirety of Half Life series.
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Old Jul 26, 2021, 05:21 PM   #111
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I wonder how they are going to handle HL: Alyx changing the ending for EP 2?

Most HL2 players haven't played Alyx, so it is going to be really weird for them.
Laidlaw was "heavily consulted" for Alyx, so apparently he's still providing a bit of vision/guidance for where ever they're going to go with the story, if they ever do. It would be nice if they could keep it consistent between episodes.
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Old Jul 26, 2021, 06:08 PM   #112
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All I want is to see the Half-Life and Portal universes collide somehow as was suggested with the whole Borealis thing.
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Old Jul 26, 2021, 07:17 PM   #113
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You don't always need a fully complete story for a satisfactory or entertaining product. For example 'The Empire Strikes Back (1980)' ended on a cliffhanger without closure on any of its storylines. And it's considered one of the best films ever made, and also regarded as one of the very few sequels that outdid a highly regarded original.

If the journey you go through with the characters, story, plot etc is substantial, then "ended on a cliffhanger" or "incomplete" should not be enough of a drawback to prevent your enjoyment from the entire experience.

Obviously everyone's thoughts on this will vary, but HL without an ending is still a world class experience. (at least judged in the period when it was released).
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Old Jul 26, 2021, 08:06 PM   #114
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EP 2 had an ending right out of one of those found footage horror movies though, I don't really think it is comparable to the ending of empire strikes back.

The original HL2 ending was better suited for pausing the series with an unknown ETA for the next game.

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Old Jul 27, 2021, 12:55 AM   #115
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Gordon can **** OFF, HL3 will be all about Alyx.
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Alyx is the Much better character. By a lot.
Well, the thing is, Gordon isn't really much of a character at all is he?

I think that the mute protagonist is one of those "out of time" things. It was fine back in the 90s and early 00s, but game storytelling moved on. I always thought it weird that Valve sort of bragged about Gordon being mute, so "the player could be him", like it was actually some sort of intentional thing, and not just tech/storytelling limitations of the era (which is what I think the real reason was--at least I hope so).

If they do continue HL I do hope they kind of let him go by the wayside at this point. Or at least move on from that mute protagonist thing to give him some personality. He'd be a lot more interesting if he was quoting some esoteric physics, or making other weird nerdy/intellectual comments.
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Old Jul 27, 2021, 01:23 AM   #116
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I like that he's mute
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Old Jul 27, 2021, 05:03 AM   #117
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Well, the thing is, Gordon isn't really much of a character at all is he?

I think that the mute protagonist is one of those "out of time" things. It was fine back in the 90s and early 00s, but game storytelling moved on. I always thought it weird that Valve sort of bragged about Gordon being mute, so "the player could be him", like it was actually some sort of intentional thing, and not just tech/storytelling limitations of the era (which is what I think the real reason was--at least I hope so).

If they do continue HL I do hope they kind of let him go by the wayside at this point. Or at least move on from that mute protagonist thing to give him some personality. He'd be a lot more interesting if he was quoting some esoteric physics, or making other weird nerdy/intellectual comments.
Agreed on all points. It's a fairly strong storyline at this point, and that calls for characters that can add to it verbally.

Of course, this is all moot if Valve declines to close the loop with a finale.
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Old Jul 27, 2021, 05:54 AM   #118
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Well, the thing is, Gordon isn't really much of a character at all is he?

I think that the mute protagonist is one of those "out of time" things. It was fine back in the 90s and early 00s, but game storytelling moved on. I always thought it weird that Valve sort of bragged about Gordon being mute, so "the player could be him", like it was actually some sort of intentional thing, and not just tech/storytelling limitations of the era (which is what I think the real reason was--at least I hope so).

If they do continue HL I do hope they kind of let him go by the wayside at this point. Or at least move on from that mute protagonist thing to give him some personality. He'd be a lot more interesting if he was quoting some esoteric physics, or making other weird nerdy/intellectual comments.
It wasnt story telling limitations of the era... they did do it by choice. The ONLY limitation in story telling at the time was most of it was told in cutscenes, and half life didnt want to have cutscenes. Even then though it wasnt a limitation, but a choice developers made.
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Old Jul 27, 2021, 09:38 AM   #119
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EP 2 had an ending right out of one of those found footage horror movies though, I don't really think it is comparable to the ending of empire strikes back.

The original HL2 ending was better suited for pausing the series with an unknown ETA for the next game.
This. They didn't need to do the episodes at all, but once they started those they should have finished them. Not all cliffhangers are created equal.
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Old Jul 28, 2021, 02:25 PM   #120
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It wasnt story telling limitations of the era... they did do it by choice. The ONLY limitation in story telling at the time was most of it was told in cutscenes, and half life didnt want to have cutscenes. Even then though it wasnt a limitation, but a choice developers made.
That was the whole gimmick that made it awesome, no game had scripted events or no loading screens. It felt like a real place, cut scenes or Gordon speaking would have been out of place.
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