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Old Feb 8, 2005, 10:50 AM   #1
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Maverickman
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ATI Technologies X850 PE an underwhelming card?

I just got my new PC with an X800 XT. I thought about getting an X850 XT PE instead, but then I read the reviews on the card and came away unimpressed. Apparently, the X850 XT PE is not much faster than the X800 XT PE or even my X800 XT. I was also floored by the huge cooling solution ATI uses for the card. Looks as big as the one on the GeForce 6800 Ultra!!! The fan noise was also described as being very loud when the GPU is under heavy load. Maybe the other manufacturers will use smaller cooling solutions. Also, forget about using the adjacent PCI slot as it will be covered up.

In sum, the X850 XT PE is a great card, but the large cooling solution, noise and cost aren't worth the extra 5% or so in performance I would get over my
X800 XT. I know there are some who want the fastest thing out there regardless of cost, but I'm not one of them. There are probably some who upgraded their X800 XT PE to an X850 XT PE and waisted a lot of money in the process.
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Old Feb 8, 2005, 11:24 AM   #2
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I'm not in any way suggesting that the X850 XT PE is a "bad" card. On the contrary, it's the best vidoe card out there. It's just that it's little more than a speed bump for . If it's more available than the X800, that would be a huge boost for ATI. I'll upgrade when R5xx rolls around.
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Old Feb 8, 2005, 11:49 AM   #3
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The X850XT/PE is not loud. Whoever said that is ignorant. The ONLY time it is loud, is for about 2 seconds, from when you hit the power button to turn on the PC, until it hits the BIOS. No amount of gaming I have done, or read in reviews has made it spin to high.

Everyone already knows the PE isnt that much faster than the XT, and so on. But thanks.. ?
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Old Feb 8, 2005, 12:07 PM   #4
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ATI Technologies

I think the main thing the X850 XT has going for it is the fact that it will be more available than the X800 XT PE was. I'm not too crazy about the cooling solution, but those of you who have it can attest to the noise level. I know my X800 XT is quiet when idle and only gets louder during games. Almost everyone on this board probably knows the X850 XT PE is just a speed bump anyway.
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Old Feb 8, 2005, 12:44 PM   #5
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Going from X800XT to X800XT PE / X850XT PE makes no sense at all. The sweet spot card will to upgrade from something like 9600/9700/9800 will be the the X800XL or X850XT if the price is RIGHT. Now lets wait for AGP8x parts as ATI promised
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Old Feb 8, 2005, 12:48 PM   #6
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or maybe from this gf4 to a x850xt pe ???
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Old Feb 8, 2005, 02:04 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maverickman
I'm not too crazy about the cooling solution, but those of you who have it can attest to the noise level.
I do have it, and it doesnt spin it to full. Show me one person who said it did.
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Old Feb 8, 2005, 02:22 PM   #8
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I have it and it sounds like an airplane taking off...

Only for 2 seconds when the machine boots up, then it quiets down to barely audible speeds.
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Old Feb 8, 2005, 02:24 PM   #9
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X850XT PE is X800XT PE in disguise. One of the most boring refresh releases I've witnessed so far. I've had my X800XT PE since July last year... bored, I want some new toy. I hope R520 comes sooner.
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Old Feb 8, 2005, 02:29 PM   #10
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I dont understand why people still (without reason) complain that the cooling solution takes up a PCI slot. Come on now people. My cooler takes up 3 PCI slots. If you really really need that many PCI cards, something is up..

Seriously.. Video card, and sound card (99 percent of the time) Unless your needs are more in your box, then you just need a seperate gaming box.
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Old Feb 8, 2005, 02:38 PM   #11
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VW_Factor,

dual-slot cooling solution can be problem for SFF PC users.
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Old Feb 8, 2005, 03:08 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PowerK
X850XT PE is X800XT PE in disguise. One of the most boring refresh releases I've witnessed so far. I've had my X800XT PE since July last year... bored, I want some new toy. I hope R520 comes sooner.
It wasnt ment as a huge boost in performance, but for a PCI-E card, and one thats actually available. Here it is already avail for under MSRP. Something the X800XT/PE never could do.

Im glad they released it, or else they would still be in the same situation. The fastest card available, thats not really available.
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Old Feb 8, 2005, 03:31 PM   #13
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That's why I'm kind of disappointed. Now, they could solve the poor yield issue. But on the bright side, it's better late than never. Also, this kind of makes me feel like I've had the winter refresh since last summer...
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Old Feb 9, 2005, 04:50 AM   #14
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It's not worth it's price?

I don't know about the rest of the world, but here in Norway the x850 is the same price and often cheaper than a normal x800xt.
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Old Feb 9, 2005, 07:52 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BadLoser
It's not worth it's price?

I don't know about the rest of the world, but here in Norway the x850 is the same price and often cheaper than a normal x800xt.

First: notice who is saying "it's not worth it"
Next: notice the video card they own
Bingo!
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Old Feb 9, 2005, 08:05 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mizzer
First: notice who is saying "it's not worth it"
Next: notice the video card they own
Bingo!
Not quite so.

Because when you put performance into the equation, from X800 to X850 is even worse than 9800 Pro to 9800 XT.

I'm well aware that X850 was meant to be a solution for poor availability of X800XT/PE. But since it was launched half year later, more performance improvement would have made more sense.
No matter how you put it, performance of X850 is basically the same as X800. It's just re-badged X800 with improved/better availability. (higher yield).

At least X800 provided amazing performance gap. The performance gap from 9800 XT to X800XT PE was probably the biggest in 3D card history.
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Old Feb 9, 2005, 08:17 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PowerK
I've had my X800XT PE since July last year... bored, I want some new toy. I hope R520 comes sooner.
I know how you feel. I've had my XT-PE since the early part of june/04 and I could sell it today for the exact price I bought it for . I too, am anxiously awaiting the r520, as I've run out of things to buy.

On the other hand, it makes sense that ATI would bring out the x850's. Most high end gamers have or are going to be making the switch to pci-express and with the x850 having the performance, availability and a decent price...who wouldn't pass up that offer, unless you want SLI.

As for the cooler on it, I think it looks nice and I wouldn't mind a dual-slot cooling solution on my card either.
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Old Feb 9, 2005, 11:06 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EC51

At least X800 provided amazing performance gap. The performance gap from 9800 XT to X800XT PE was probably the biggest in 3D card history.
There are several that can make that claim. 8500 to 9700 Pro? 5950U to 6800U? The list goes on and on..
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Old Feb 9, 2005, 02:36 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emilee
There are several that can make that claim. 8500 to 9700 Pro? 5950U to 6800U? The list goes on and on..
Nope. Unless you're one of new comers to PC stuff, it's not hard to see.

I'm talking about generation change. Both Nvidia, and Ati had a generation change in early-mid 2004. From NV3x to NV40, and from R3x0 to R420. I'm prerry sure that the performance gap between those *consecutive* generations is the biggest in history so far.
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Old Feb 9, 2005, 02:57 PM   #20
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And you dont think 8500 to 9700 wasnt a generation change? The 5950U to 6800U is more of a difference than the 9800XT to X800 is, when you count how crappy the 5950U did with AA and PS2.0.
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Old Feb 9, 2005, 03:20 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emilee
And you dont think 8500 to 9700 wasnt a generation change?
Umm... where did I say that? Performance gap between 8500, and 9700 simply was not as big as 9800 to X800. Period.
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Old Feb 9, 2005, 03:48 PM   #22
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Proof? The 9700 Pro was the first card that let you actually use AA with good frames, and 1600x1200.
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Old Feb 9, 2005, 03:53 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EC51
Umm... where did I say that? Performance gap between 8500, and 9700 simply was not as big as 9800 to X800. Period.
O.o

you weren't around back then were you?

by all means, feel free to back up your claims with benches.

Now, some other large gaps to consider: V1 to V2 sli, V3 to V5 5500, tnt2 to GF2 ddr, radeon (now named radeon 7200) to 8500, GF3ti to GF4 4600.

yes, the 9800xt - x800xtpe might have had some huge gains in some areas (now we all can play 3dmark05 or whatever's the latest at 2048 with 6xAA at a whole 30fps, while we could do that at 10 with the 9800) but not all around like most of the other gaps between cards.
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Old Feb 9, 2005, 03:54 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EC51
Umm... where did I say that? Performance gap between 8500, and 9700 simply was not as big as 9800 to X800. Period.
R200-R300 was 2x performance leap, same as R300-R420. I assume we're talking about the original cores of each successive generation and not refreshes, otherwise we'd have to go from R360-R420 and that would be less than a 2x jump whereas R200 would still be compared to R300 since there weren't any performance refreshes of the R200 generation.
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Old Feb 9, 2005, 04:12 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShaidarHaran
R200-R300 was 2x performance leap, same as R300-R420. I assume we're talking about the original cores of each successive generation and not refreshes, otherwise we'd have to go from R360-R420 and that would be less than a 2x jump whereas R200 would still be compared to R300 since there weren't any performance refreshes of the R200 generation.
Well with af/fsaa there were situations where the 9700 pro was easily getting into being easily 3x times faster than the ti 4600s. (even more probably vs the r200)

The r2xxx were very slow at fsaa and the geforce 3/4 was very slow at af so comparing to either of them with af+fsaa the 9700 pro was a huge leap IMO definitly bigger than 9800XT -->X800XT PE
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Old Feb 9, 2005, 04:20 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dan2097
Well with af/fsaa there were situations where the 9700 pro was easily getting into being easily 3x times faster than the ti 4600s. (even more probably vs the r200)

The r2xxx were very slow at fsaa and the geforce 3/4 was very slow at af so comparing to either of them with af+fsaa the 9700 pro was a huge leap IMO definitly bigger than 9800XT -->X800XT PE
I know, I remember the days of R200 and R300 well. My 2x reference was to overall performance and not specific to any scenario. Anyway, you're just reinforcing my point that R300 was, in all likelihood, the biggest leap in performance from the previous generation *ever*.
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Old Feb 9, 2005, 04:34 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShaidarHaran
R200-R300 was 2x performance leap, same as R300-R420. I assume we're talking about the original cores of each successive generation and not refreshes, otherwise we'd have to go from R360-R420 and that would be less than a 2x jump whereas R200 would still be compared to R300 since there weren't any performance refreshes of the R200 generation.
http://www.rage3d.com/board/showthread.php?t=33794454
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emilee
Proof? The 9700 Pro was the first card that let you actually use AA with good frames, and 1600x1200.
You need to actually read before post.
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Old Feb 9, 2005, 04:38 PM   #28
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I don't feel like reading that whole thread but I assume you're referring to the Farcry bench on the first page? Sure the R420's faster than R3xx in shader-heavy scenarios by more than twice the amount, that's practically the whole point of R420 is more shader power.
Edit: hehe, I didn't scroll down until after I posted... Anyway, I'm not debating that R420 was a huge leap over R3xx. I just think R300 was a bigger jump over R200 is all.
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Old Feb 9, 2005, 05:30 PM   #29
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I think most ppl miss the point of the 850xt. We all know ATI had availability issues with the x800xt. What my guess is they went back and revised the r423 core(x800xt) and came up with a better yielding core -the r480. It wasnt meant as an upgrade path for those who already have the x800xt/pe. Its meant to improve availability of their top end cards. Shops in my area that have the x850xt in stock are already selling them at a lower price point than the x800xt's. Doubt anyone will be buying a more expensive x800xt over a cheaper x850xt. Pretty soon the x800xt's will be phased out in favor of the x850xt's if they havent already been yet.


For someone with an older card who would have bought the x800xt but havent yet, they now have a much better option with the x850xt.
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Old Feb 9, 2005, 05:41 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EC51

You need to actually read before post.
I read just fine, and you have yet to prove your claim. But nice tude.

Dont use todays games, use the games that were out, at the time of the change.

Still waiting for proof.
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