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Old Oct 24, 2021, 12:47 PM   #61
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bill dennison
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Originally Posted by Koenig View Post
When any accident happens in business, the response isn't "eh accidents happen." They can't because insurance companies are going to want to know how they plan to avoid that in the future. Not just insurance though, unions, regulators, etc. So yeah, this can be 100% preventable and should be in the future now with current AI driven vfx.
glad you guys live in a perfect world

....
all accidents are 100% preventable and never are because accidents only ever happen to other people


they will make a few new rules and go back to doing it the same old same old .

CGI doesn't get you Academy Awards .
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Old Oct 24, 2021, 05:07 PM   #62
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CGI doesn't get you Academy Awards .
Lol what? Ok. Perhaps you should go back and see who's won in the past.
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Old Oct 24, 2021, 05:10 PM   #63
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Also, digital compositing does not mean CGI. You can digitally add effects without cgi.
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Old Oct 24, 2021, 06:38 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by kytprice View Post
In my opinion prop guns or any gun to be used on set should be checked by a professional. Then handed straight to the actor. No middle man no time between shoots to be tampered with.
And when I mean checked each blank taken out inspected then reloaded.

The one using the gun is ultimately responsible and they are also responsible for checking the gun before usage. Some weapons expert consultants that work with the movie industry force the actors to load and unload the weapons themselves in order to be sure that they know what is inside the gun.
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Old Oct 24, 2021, 06:48 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by UFO View Post
The one using the gun is ultimately responsible and they are also responsible for checking the gun before usage. Some weapons expert consultants that work with the movie industry force the actors to load and unload the weapons themselves in order to be sure that they know what is inside the gun.
These actors all hate guns. Thus they never bothered to learn how to properly use one, because in their minds the gun kills someone. Not the person holding it.

They need cops or vets in charge of all "prop" guns, and no putting **** on a cart. A pro hands the actor the weapon. Do that, and this doesn't happen.

Last edited by Cyko : Oct 24, 2021 at 09:12 PM. Reason: Removed the P&R bit
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Old Oct 24, 2021, 07:11 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by Greasy View Post
These actors all hate guns. Thus they never bothered to learn how to properly use one, because in their minds the gun kills someone. Not the person holding it.

They need cops or vets in charge of all "prop" guns, and no putting **** on a cart. A pro hands the actor the weapon. Do that, and this doesn't happen.
I hope that people don't actually think simply being a cop or a vet makes one a pro


HahahahhahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahaahhaahhHahahahhahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahaahhaahhHa hahahhahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahaahhaahhHahahahhahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahaahhaahh

Last edited by Cyko : Oct 24, 2021 at 09:13 PM. Reason: Removed P&R bit from quote
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Old Oct 24, 2021, 07:14 PM   #67
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Yes, these are actors IRL very few know anything about firearms. Myself and several others on this forum could tell in seconds. Naturally in Hollywood it's who you know not what you know that gets you the job.
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Old Oct 24, 2021, 07:16 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canesfan2020 View Post
I hope that people don't actually think simply being a cop or a vet makes one a pro


HahahahhahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahaahhaahhHahahahhahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahaahhaahhHa hahahhahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahaahhaahhHahahahhahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahaahhaahh
Maybe not a pro but obviously more qualified than the armorer they had. She was reportedly afraid of her job and the weapons.
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Old Oct 24, 2021, 07:50 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canesfan2020 View Post
I hope that people don't actually think simply being a cop or a vet makes one a pro


HahahahhahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahaahhaahhHahahahhahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahaahhaahhHa hahahhahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahaahhaahhHahahahhahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahaahhaahh
Well they would/should know proper gun protocol. That's a great start that seemed to be seriously lacking in the industry.
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Old Oct 24, 2021, 07:56 PM   #70
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It's the Sun so huge grain of salt, but if true. Oh damn...

https://www.the-sun.com/entertainmen...ctice-bullets/
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Old Oct 24, 2021, 08:34 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greasy View Post
These actors all hate guns. Thus they never bothered to learn how to properly use one, because in their minds the gun kills someone. Not the person holding it.

They need cops or vets in charge of all "prop" guns, and no putting **** on a cart. A pro hands the actor the weapon. Do that, and this doesn't happen.
What a crock.

Really, just the entire post... Come on man.
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You guys are closet communists.

Last edited by Cyko : Oct 24, 2021 at 09:15 PM. Reason: P&R removed
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Old Oct 24, 2021, 08:36 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elysian View Post
What a crock.

Really, just the entire post... Come on man.
They do. Sorry, not sorry.

Last edited by Cyko : Oct 24, 2021 at 09:15 PM. Reason: P&R removed
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Old Oct 24, 2021, 08:40 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by Greasy View Post
They do. Sorry, not sorry.
I think it's just best to put you on ignore. You've changed, and not for the better.
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You guys are closet communists.

Last edited by Cyko : Oct 24, 2021 at 09:16 PM. Reason: P&R removed
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Old Oct 24, 2021, 08:44 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by Elysian View Post
I think it's just best to put you on ignore. You've changed, and not for the better.
Same man I've always been. I just know guns really really well. Enjoy not seeing my posts I guess man.
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Old Oct 24, 2021, 09:17 PM   #75
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P&R references removed. We can debate proper firearm handling without involving a persons political leaning.

Thanks all.
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Old Oct 24, 2021, 10:02 PM   #76
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not all actors hate guns

https://stacker.com/stories/1621/cel...o-are-pro-guns

and most don't hate guns only that the peasants can own them

they all have armed security at times and they got no problem with that
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Old Oct 24, 2021, 10:04 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by Cyko View Post
P&R references removed. We can debate proper firearm handling without involving a persons political leaning.

Thanks all.
You dirty bastard editing my post. You're lucky I like you!

Also I hope you're feeling better man. Speedy recovery bro!
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Old Oct 24, 2021, 11:48 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by bill dennison View Post
not all actors hate guns

https://stacker.com/stories/1621/cel...o-are-pro-guns

and most don't hate guns only that the peasants can own them

they all have armed security at times and they got no problem with that
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Old Oct 24, 2021, 11:55 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by kytprice View Post
Yes, these are actors IRL very few know anything about firearms. Myself and several others on this forum could tell in seconds. Naturally in Hollywood it's who you know not what you know that gets you the job.

Why would they know? To them it's not a weapon or a firearm, it's a prop. Any actor or person with significant theater background already has experience using prop guns, if they're expected to know how to handle real ones they're going to have to be trained for it, just as actors are often trained in all sorts of other things they're asked to portray (plenty of examples of this not happening and it coming out ****, but most high budget stuff does make an effort). It's an unreasonable expectation to assume that an actor knows and adheres to proper firearm safeing and handling procedures, let alone that they can tell a good metal prop from a fully functioning weapon.

It seems like a failure on multiple fronts, but I don't know if it's fair to just put the blame on the one who pulled the trigger in this case. If reasonable protocol was followed the actor would know required checks/verifications, they would be reminded of them before a scene if they showed any sign of not doing it by the professional, and they would never have been given a weapon with live ammo (and live ammo was never even on set). Redundant checks built into your procedure is how you prevent this kind of thing, so this tragic result sounds like the failure of half a dozen steps that should have been in place, and it may very well have been staff changes that contributed to this, though it could be just that the 'standard procedures' on set were inadequate.


Maybe the investigation will show something else, but I suspect the ultimate liability will fall on the person preparing the weapons for the shoot and that there wasn't any ill intent - just poor adhesion to safety steps.
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Old Oct 25, 2021, 12:17 AM   #80
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You dirty bastard editing my post. You're lucky I like you!

Also I hope you're feeling better man. Speedy recovery bro!


Well it’s either edit, delete, or PM and ask to edit. As people were quoting the post, and since you did have points apart from the P&R bit, I went with option A. No hard feelings my friend, trying to keep the thread open is all.

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Old Oct 25, 2021, 07:21 AM   #81
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Originally Posted by DaJMasta View Post
Maybe the investigation will show something else, but I suspect the ultimate liability will fall on the person preparing the weapons for the shoot and that there wasn't any ill intent - just poor adhesion to safety steps.
Well, there's also the fact that the gun was levelled at the directors at all. There's absolutely no reason for people to be standing there. We have freaking cameras and displays if you just want to see what the scene looks like in real time without putting someone in harms way. Who's decision was that?


Answer: This wasn't a shoot, Alec was ad-libbing during a practice.

https://news.yahoo.com/search-warran...052133183.html
Quote:
Actor Alec Baldwin was practicing removing a revolver from its holster and aiming toward the camera during rehearsal for the movie "Rust" when director Joel Souza heard "what sounded like a whip and then a loud pop," according to a search warrant obtained by the Los Angeles Times on Sunday night that also provided grim new details about the final minutes of cinematographer Halyna Hutchins' life.

...

Halls had taken one of three prop guns set up by Gutierrez Reed on a cart left outside the structure because of COVID-19 restrictions, the affidavit said. Halls did not know live rounds were in the gun when he handed it to Baldwin, and Halls yelled "cold gun," according to the affidavit.

Souza said cast and crew were preparing the scene before lunch but then had a meal away from the rehearsal area around 12:30 p.m., according to the affidavit. When they returned, Souza said, he wasn't sure if the gun was checked again, the affidavit said.

...

When they came back from lunch, a creeping shadow prompted the camera to be moved to a different angle, Russell said in the affidavit. As Baldwin was explaining how he was going to draw his gun and where his arm would be when he pulled the gun from the holster, it discharged, Russell said.

...

he shooting came after crew members raised concerns about safety conditions on set. Two "Rust" crew members told the L.A. Times that, less than a week earlier, a stunt double had fired two accidental prop gun discharges after being told the gun was "cold."

So everyone walked away from a table of weapons left unsupervised and then used them? And Halls apparently never checks the weapons when he declares them having no ammunition? Baldwin couldn't raise the gun without pulling a trigger? He didn't see the problem of pointing at people? So many opportunities to avoid this and as an executive producer he's doubly vulnerable since ultimately he has a say in safety protocols.
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Old Oct 25, 2021, 08:18 AM   #82
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You dirty bastard editing my post.
I was gonna do but I know how much Cyko enjoys it so I let him have the pleasure.
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Old Oct 25, 2021, 08:19 AM   #83
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Still black and blue though. Looks like I got my ass whooped. Haven’t seen this look in a while 😅
Since last mod party, right?
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Old Oct 25, 2021, 08:36 AM   #84
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Well it’s either edit, delete, or PM and ask to edit. As people were quoting the post, and since you did have points apart from the P&R bit, I went with option A. No hard feelings my friend, trying to keep the thread open is all.

Feeling better by the day ❤️ Should be back in the gym by Thursday. Still black and blue though. Looks like I got my ass whooped. Haven’t seen this look in a while 😅
Glad to hear you're on the mend bud.

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Old Oct 25, 2021, 05:42 PM   #85
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Why would they know? To them it's not a weapon or a firearm, it's a prop. Any actor or person with significant theater background already has experience using prop guns, if they're expected to know how to handle real ones they're going to have to be trained for it, just as actors are often trained in all sorts of other things they're asked to portray (plenty of examples of this not happening and it coming out ****, but most high budget stuff does make an effort). It's an unreasonable expectation to assume that an actor knows and adheres to proper firearm safeing and handling procedures, let alone that they can tell a good metal prop from a fully functioning weapon.

It seems like a failure on multiple fronts, but I don't know if it's fair to just put the blame on the one who pulled the trigger in this case. If reasonable protocol was followed the actor would know required checks/verifications, they would be reminded of them before a scene if they showed any sign of not doing it by the professional, and they would never have been given a weapon with live ammo (and live ammo was never even on set). Redundant checks built into your procedure is how you prevent this kind of thing, so this tragic result sounds like the failure of half a dozen steps that should have been in place, and it may very well have been staff changes that contributed to this, though it could be just that the 'standard procedures' on set were inadequate.


Maybe the investigation will show something else, but I suspect the ultimate liability will fall on the person preparing the weapons for the shoot and that there wasn't any ill intent - just poor adhesion to safety steps.
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Old Oct 26, 2021, 01:46 AM   #86
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Why would they know? To them it's not a weapon or a firearm, it's a prop. Any actor or person with significant theater background already has experience using prop guns, if they're expected to know how to handle real ones they're going to have to be trained for it, just as actors are often trained in all sorts of other things they're asked to portray (plenty of examples of this not happening and it coming out ****, but most high budget stuff does make an effort). It's an unreasonable expectation to assume that an actor knows and adheres to proper firearm safeing and handling procedures, let alone that they can tell a good metal prop from a fully functioning weapon.

It seems like a failure on multiple fronts, but I don't know if it's fair to just put the blame on the one who pulled the trigger in this case. If reasonable protocol was followed the actor would know required checks/verifications, they would be reminded of them before a scene if they showed any sign of not doing it by the professional, and they would never have been given a weapon with live ammo (and live ammo was never even on set). Redundant checks built into your procedure is how you prevent this kind of thing, so this tragic result sounds like the failure of half a dozen steps that should have been in place, and it may very well have been staff changes that contributed to this, though it could be just that the 'standard procedures' on set were inadequate.


Maybe the investigation will show something else, but I suspect the ultimate liability will fall on the person preparing the weapons for the shoot and that there wasn't any ill intent - just poor adhesion to safety steps.
I agree. AB would have to be trained to know how to see loaded gun. If you don't have a gun how would he know ?

And then in the same breath, if he needs to know the gun was loaded, then he must overview the sound engineers, the camera , the lights etc because that would fall into "knowing if a gun contains a live round" IMHO.

The biggest question, is why live ammo on set? And why the armorer (sp?) didn't verify.
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Old Oct 26, 2021, 02:42 PM   #87
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The series "The Rookie" with Nathan Fillion, is removing all their live prop guns and replacing them with realistic looking airsoft guns.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/enter...nt/6154748001/
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Old Oct 26, 2021, 08:09 PM   #88
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Old Oct 27, 2021, 01:58 PM   #89
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