Go Back   Rage3D » Rage3D Discussion Area » Graphics Technology Forums » AMD Radeon Discussion and Support
Rage3D Subscribe Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

AMD Radeon Discussion and Support General discussion, tweaking, overclocking and technical support questions about discrete Radeon graphics products.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old Jun 2, 2021, 01:15 PM   #31
Advertisement (Guests Only)

Login or Register to remove this ad
pax
Rage3D Spammer
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Canada Grand Falls, New Brunswick, Canada
Posts: 30,099
pax once won a refrigerator on 'The Price is Right'pax once won a refrigerator on 'The Price is Right'pax once won a refrigerator on 'The Price is Right'pax once won a refrigerator on 'The Price is Right'pax once won a refrigerator on 'The Price is Right'pax once won a refrigerator on 'The Price is Right'


Default

Pretty harsh article form wccftech but I think he makes a few mistakes:

https://wccftech.com/no-amds-fsr-fid...u-should-care/

Quote:
FSR does not use any machine learning or inference and while it is an amazing tool to have in the absence of a DL system - it is not comparable in any way to an AI-powered image upscaling system. The former will always have a quality cost associated with it while the latter can actually get to a point where it would be impossible to see differences between native and AI-upscaled images. With the non-DL implementation AMD has rolled out with FSR, you are looking at quality that is worse than DLSS 1.0 on the highest preset. Performance presets should impact quality even more.
id read that DLSS up to version 1.9 was also a spatial upscaler. They gave up on it and moved on to ai/dl in 2.0. It doesnt mean it cant work well it may simply need a lot more work before we can say its a good quality. Also with game engines like UE5 putting in their own upscaling tech I suspect we may be using that more often than those provided by the gpu vendors as time goes on.

He also used the 1060 demo which used medium setting to draw a comparison. It was enabled for the 1060 but not optimized.

Quote:
AMD's Scott Herkelman has stated that they have no intention of optimizing FSR for NVIDIA GPUs and that NVIDIA should do that work. While it would have been a completely reasonable expectation in normal circumstances, the fact that AMD expounded on NVIDIA support, absorbed a ton of good press on this and is now basically back tracking makes it seem like a bait and switch situation. This also implies that FSR for NVIDIA users will be optimized only for Godfall unless NVIDIA wants to adopt the technology (which, in my opinion, they absolutely should for non-RTX cards).


Hardly fair when nvidia doesnt provide any upscaler for gtx cards. I dont see how we can expect amd to help write nvidia drivers. Its probably not even legal.
__________________
I talked to the tree. Thats why they put me away!..." Peter Sellers, The Goon Show
Only superficial people cant be superficial... Oscar Wilde
https://www.plasma-universe.com/pseudoskepticism/

Piledriver Rig 2016: Gigabyte G1 gaming 990fx. FX 8350 cpu. XFX RX 480 GTR Cats 21.6.1, SoundBlaster ZXR, 2 x 8 gig ddr3 1866 Kingston. 1 x 2tb Firecuda seagate with 8 gig mlc SSHD. Sharp 60" 4k 60 hz tv. Win 10 home.

Ryzen Rig 2017: Gigabyte X370 K7 F50d bios. Ryzen 5800X3D :). 2 x 8 ddr4 3600 (@3200) Cas 16 Gskill. Sapphire Vega 64 Reference Cooler Cats 22.4.1. 1700 mhz @1.1v. Soundblaster X Ae5, 32" Dell S3220DGF 1440p Freesync Premium Pro monitor, Kingston A2000 1TB NVME. 4 TB HGST NAS HD. Win 11 pro.

Ignore List: Keystone, Andino... -My Baron, he wishes to inform you that vendetta, as he puts it in the ancient tongue, the art of kanlee is still alive... He does not wish to meet or speak with you...-
"Either half my colleagues are enormously stupid, or else the science of darwinism is fully compatible with conventional religious beliefs and equally compatible with atheism." -Stephen Jay Gould, Rock of Ages.
"The Intelligibility of the Universe itself needs explanation. It is not the gaps of understanding of the world that points to God but rather the very comprehensibility of scientific and other forms of understanding that requires an explanation." -Richard Swinburne


www.realitysandwich.com

www.makepovertyhistory.org
pax is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jun 2, 2021, 01:39 PM   #32
bill dennison
Rage3D Spammer
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: United States phoenix
Posts: 25,127
bill dennison has a basement full of buried neg-reppersbill dennison has a basement full of buried neg-reppersbill dennison has a basement full of buried neg-reppersbill dennison has a basement full of buried neg-reppersbill dennison has a basement full of buried neg-reppersbill dennison has a basement full of buried neg-reppersbill dennison has a basement full of buried neg-reppersbill dennison has a basement full of buried neg-reppersbill dennison has a basement full of buried neg-reppersbill dennison has a basement full of buried neg-reppersbill dennison has a basement full of buried neg-reppers


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nunz View Post
That’s a classic Bill opinion thinking AMD will equal NV’s DLSS “quickly” .. I don’t see that happening, at least for a while.
i give it a year two tops till it is close enough to keep the same standard that works on the new game consoles and PC both AMD and NV for the game devs not to want to spend the extra time and money to program a different code just for NV RTX

oh i'm sure NV will pour cash on a game dev here and there but it won't last


then RDNA 3 chiplets in a year & RDNA 4 in 2.5 to 3 years may well make it not needed much it the about same time frame
bill dennison is online now   Reply With Quote
Old Jun 2, 2021, 01:45 PM   #33
SirBaron
Hallowed are the Clownies
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Germany Niedersachsen
Posts: 25,865
SirBaron exchanges holiday cards with Vin DieselSirBaron exchanges holiday cards with Vin DieselSirBaron exchanges holiday cards with Vin DieselSirBaron exchanges holiday cards with Vin DieselSirBaron exchanges holiday cards with Vin DieselSirBaron exchanges holiday cards with Vin DieselSirBaron exchanges holiday cards with Vin DieselSirBaron exchanges holiday cards with Vin DieselSirBaron exchanges holiday cards with Vin DieselSirBaron exchanges holiday cards with Vin DieselSirBaron exchanges holiday cards with Vin Diesel


Default

It's going to be needed once true ps5/xsx games appear and not crossgen stuff.

There's always going to be something to destroy our fps.
__________________
Fantards the scourge of the universe:
SirBaron is offline   Reply With Quote
Advertisement (Guests Only)
Login or Register to remove this ad
Old Jun 2, 2021, 03:54 PM   #34
Exposed
ESB Sports Bookie
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: United States Orlando, FL
Posts: 7,245
Exposed can recite pi backwardsExposed can recite pi backwardsExposed can recite pi backwardsExposed can recite pi backwardsExposed can recite pi backwardsExposed can recite pi backwardsExposed can recite pi backwards


Default

Here's a full resolution image of "quality mode" on a 1060.

Unfortunately, this doesn't look too promising. The right side of the screen where quality is enabled is noticeably blurrier especially in terms of texture detail, like by the columns. Was DLSS 1.0 this bad? Can't remember, but it was rightfully slammed for its blurriness especially in BF5.

Don't know what "ultra quality" looks like yet, we'll find out soon enough. But it does look like AMD has go through their "DLSS 1.0" moment before they get their "DLSS 2.0" act together eventually down the road.

Exposed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jun 2, 2021, 04:00 PM   #35
Nunz
RIP Roxen
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 32,147
Nunz glows with the radiance of a thousand sunsNunz glows with the radiance of a thousand sunsNunz glows with the radiance of a thousand sunsNunz glows with the radiance of a thousand sunsNunz glows with the radiance of a thousand sunsNunz glows with the radiance of a thousand sunsNunz glows with the radiance of a thousand sunsNunz glows with the radiance of a thousand sunsNunz glows with the radiance of a thousand sunsNunz glows with the radiance of a thousand sunsNunz glows with the radiance of a thousand suns


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bill dennison View Post
i give it a year two tops till it is close enough to keep the same standard that works on the new game consoles and PC both AMD and NV for the game devs not to want to spend the extra time and money to program a different code just for NV RTX

oh i'm sure NV will pour cash on a game dev here and there but it won't last


then RDNA 3 chiplets in a year & RDNA 4 in 2.5 to 3 years may well make it not needed much it the about same time frame
Oh Bill.. you would want something that matches console quality rather than exceeds it.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by curio View Post
Eat this protein bar, for it is of my body. And drink this creatine shake, for it is my blood.
"If you can't handle me when I'm bulking, you don't deserve me when I'm cut." -- Marilyn Monbroe
Nunz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jun 2, 2021, 04:49 PM   #36
Lazy8s
One day at a time
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 37,194
Lazy8s is on Chuck Norris' speed-dialLazy8s is on Chuck Norris' speed-dialLazy8s is on Chuck Norris' speed-dialLazy8s is on Chuck Norris' speed-dialLazy8s is on Chuck Norris' speed-dialLazy8s is on Chuck Norris' speed-dialLazy8s is on Chuck Norris' speed-dialLazy8s is on Chuck Norris' speed-dialLazy8s is on Chuck Norris' speed-dialLazy8s is on Chuck Norris' speed-dialLazy8s is on Chuck Norris' speed-dial


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Exposed View Post
Here's a full resolution image of "quality mode" on a 1060.

Unfortunately, this doesn't look too promising. The right side of the screen where quality is enabled is noticeably blurrier especially in terms of texture detail, like by the columns. Was DLSS 1.0 this bad? Can't remember, but it was rightfully slammed for its blurriness especially in BF5.

Don't know what "ultra quality" looks like yet, we'll find out soon enough. But it does look like AMD has go through their "DLSS 1.0" moment before they get their "DLSS 2.0" act together eventually down the road.

Are you sure it isn't the left side that has quality enabled? Seriously, I admit my eyes are older and tired, but the portion of the image on the left looks better to me. Detail on the walkway stones...actually ....everything.

To make a point, not start an argument, I would say new consoles easily beat that in games I've seen.

Last edited by Lazy8s : Jun 2, 2021 at 05:38 PM. Reason: spelling
Lazy8s is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jun 2, 2021, 05:21 PM   #37
Gandalfthewhite
Hardware Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: United States Middle Earth also known as AZ
Posts: 9,609
Gandalfthewhite is not someone to be trifled withGandalfthewhite is not someone to be trifled withGandalfthewhite is not someone to be trifled withGandalfthewhite is not someone to be trifled withGandalfthewhite is not someone to be trifled withGandalfthewhite is not someone to be trifled withGandalfthewhite is not someone to be trifled withGandalfthewhite is not someone to be trifled with


Subscriber
Default

yeah where I see the image distortion on the floor of the right the vegetation on the left looks like garbage. Hopefully folks will get access to be able to
give reactions in motion soon.
__________________
Main rig: look at system spec tab
Storage Server: Dual AMD Opteron 6120 CPUs, 64Gigs ECC Ram 50TB usable space across 3 zfs2 pools


HOURGLASS = most appropriate named ICON/CURSOR in the Windows world :-)

In a dank corner of ATI central, the carpet covered with corn flakes, the faint sound of clicking can be heard........Click......click, click............as the fate of the graphics world and the future of the human race hangs in the balance.

I know....I know........Keep my day job :-)- catcather

Last edited by Gandalfthewhite : Jun 2, 2021 at 05:33 PM.
Gandalfthewhite is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jun 2, 2021, 05:58 PM   #38
Trunks0
Keeping an open mind
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Canada Vancouver, B.C., Canada
Posts: 21,268
Trunks0 can recite pi backwardsTrunks0 can recite pi backwardsTrunks0 can recite pi backwardsTrunks0 can recite pi backwardsTrunks0 can recite pi backwardsTrunks0 can recite pi backwardsTrunks0 can recite pi backwards


Subscriber
Default

I bet that blurriness would be nicely cleaned up with Radeon Image Sharpening. nVidia has a similar driver side feature doesn't it?
__________________
-Trunks0
not speaking for all and if I am wrong I never said it.
(plz note that is meant as a joke)


System:
Asus TUF Gaming X570-Pro - AMD Ryzen 7 5800x - Noctua NH-D15S chromax.Black - 32gb of G.Skill Trident Z NEO - Asus DRW-24F1ST DVD±RW - Samsung 850 Evo 250Gib - 4TiB Seagate - XFX MERC 308 Radeon RX 6600XT - Creative AE-5 Plus - Windows 10 64-bit
Trunks0 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jun 2, 2021, 06:00 PM   #39
bill dennison
Rage3D Spammer
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: United States phoenix
Posts: 25,127
bill dennison has a basement full of buried neg-reppersbill dennison has a basement full of buried neg-reppersbill dennison has a basement full of buried neg-reppersbill dennison has a basement full of buried neg-reppersbill dennison has a basement full of buried neg-reppersbill dennison has a basement full of buried neg-reppersbill dennison has a basement full of buried neg-reppersbill dennison has a basement full of buried neg-reppersbill dennison has a basement full of buried neg-reppersbill dennison has a basement full of buried neg-reppersbill dennison has a basement full of buried neg-reppers


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nunz View Post
Oh Bill.. you would want something that matches console quality rather than exceeds it.
i want it off and the power to do RT on both AMD & NV at 4k without and kind of DLSS

but i think AMD will make sure the PC looks better than the new consoles as they will have more power to do so

.....

as for this you can't tell by still pictures on the net

you need to see it live, DLSS 2.0 looks great in still pictures but drops some in motion
bill dennison is online now   Reply With Quote
Old Jun 2, 2021, 06:28 PM   #40
SIrPauly
Did someone say, RGSSAA?
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: United States New England
Posts: 17,110
SIrPauly once held a door open for a complete strangerSIrPauly once held a door open for a complete strangerSIrPauly once held a door open for a complete stranger


Default

4k and lower resolutions with just native and no anti-aliasing component suffer when in motion Bill.
__________________
Really enjoy 3d gaming flexibility; a gamer's best friend!
SIrPauly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jun 2, 2021, 06:40 PM   #41
SIrPauly
Did someone say, RGSSAA?
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: United States New England
Posts: 17,110
SIrPauly once held a door open for a complete strangerSIrPauly once held a door open for a complete strangerSIrPauly once held a door open for a complete stranger


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trunks0 View Post
I bet that blurriness would be nicely cleaned up with Radeon Image Sharpening. nVidia has a similar driver side feature doesn't it?
There are three ways: one can use image sharpening in the control panel -- use the sharpening filter in Freestyle -- tweak the lod bias.
__________________
Really enjoy 3d gaming flexibility; a gamer's best friend!
SIrPauly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jun 2, 2021, 06:54 PM   #42
AllexxisF1
F- Insurrectionists
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: United States Northern, Virginia
Posts: 11,365
AllexxisF1 once jumped the English ChannelAllexxisF1 once jumped the English ChannelAllexxisF1 once jumped the English ChannelAllexxisF1 once jumped the English ChannelAllexxisF1 once jumped the English ChannelAllexxisF1 once jumped the English ChannelAllexxisF1 once jumped the English ChannelAllexxisF1 once jumped the English ChannelAllexxisF1 once jumped the English ChannelAllexxisF1 once jumped the English ChannelAllexxisF1 once jumped the English Channel


Default

Open source and doesn't require tensor cores.

Pretty much torpedoes DLSS, as it should.
AllexxisF1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jun 2, 2021, 07:26 PM   #43
Exposed
ESB Sports Bookie
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: United States Orlando, FL
Posts: 7,245
Exposed can recite pi backwardsExposed can recite pi backwardsExposed can recite pi backwardsExposed can recite pi backwardsExposed can recite pi backwardsExposed can recite pi backwardsExposed can recite pi backwards


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazy8s View Post
Are you sure it isn't the left side that has quality enabled? Seriously, I admit my eyes are older and tired, but the portion of the image on the left looks better to me. Detail on the walkway stones...actually ....everything.

To make a point, not start an argument, I would say new consoles easily beat that in games I've seen.

Well left side should be native (no super resolution applied), the right side would be with super resolution quality mode enabled.

So your eyes aren't deceiving you, it just means AMD has a bit of catching up to do compared to DLSS 2.0.
Exposed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jun 2, 2021, 08:15 PM   #44
Nunz
RIP Roxen
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 32,147
Nunz glows with the radiance of a thousand sunsNunz glows with the radiance of a thousand sunsNunz glows with the radiance of a thousand sunsNunz glows with the radiance of a thousand sunsNunz glows with the radiance of a thousand sunsNunz glows with the radiance of a thousand sunsNunz glows with the radiance of a thousand sunsNunz glows with the radiance of a thousand sunsNunz glows with the radiance of a thousand sunsNunz glows with the radiance of a thousand sunsNunz glows with the radiance of a thousand suns


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AllexxisF1 View Post
Open source and doesn't require tensor cores.

Pretty much torpedoes DLSS, as it should.
No, it doesn't. Same way that FreeSync didn't torpedo GSync.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by curio View Post
Eat this protein bar, for it is of my body. And drink this creatine shake, for it is my blood.
"If you can't handle me when I'm bulking, you don't deserve me when I'm cut." -- Marilyn Monbroe
Nunz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jun 3, 2021, 08:15 PM   #45
demo
space cadet
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Australia Melbourne
Posts: 28,111
demo exchanges holiday cards with Vin Dieseldemo exchanges holiday cards with Vin Dieseldemo exchanges holiday cards with Vin Dieseldemo exchanges holiday cards with Vin Dieseldemo exchanges holiday cards with Vin Dieseldemo exchanges holiday cards with Vin Dieseldemo exchanges holiday cards with Vin Dieseldemo exchanges holiday cards with Vin Dieseldemo exchanges holiday cards with Vin Dieseldemo exchanges holiday cards with Vin Dieseldemo exchanges holiday cards with Vin Diesel


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Exposed View Post
Here's a full resolution image of "quality mode" on a 1060.

Unfortunately, this doesn't look too promising. The right side of the screen where quality is enabled is noticeably blurrier especially in terms of texture detail, like by the columns. Was DLSS 1.0 this bad? Can't remember, but it was rightfully slammed for its blurriness especially in BF5.

Don't know what "ultra quality" looks like yet, we'll find out soon enough. But it does look like AMD has go through their "DLSS 1.0" moment before they get their "DLSS 2.0" act together eventually down the road.
Using the columns for reference, that looks horrid. Hard to tell in the other parts of the image because there's so much post effects going on, perhaps on purpose..

Very smart of AMD showing it supported on 1060, that's a blow for NV.

Great option to have but as expected, it doesn't look like a real DLSS competitor at this stage.
__________________
____________________
demo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jun 3, 2021, 11:50 PM   #46
metroidfox
dAMD fanATical nVidiot
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 6,894
metroidfox can beat 'Minesweeper' on any difficultymetroidfox can beat 'Minesweeper' on any difficulty


Default

For anyone who's been paying attention, UE 5 already relies on temporal super resolution for its rendering.

It seems like AMD has taken a page out of Epic's playbook (who in turn seem to have been keeping up with research).

You can literally see the effect in motion right now by downloading the UE5 dev kit.

I don't know much about the newer papers on them, but there do seem to be a lot. And I suspect a bunch of them take object recognition into account, so there will almost be nothing in it between DLSS and this.


__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Koenig39
Okeh zhentlemain, we well commonce spe-cial operashun "Surraindair" at four-dirty. We well sneek pass dair defances wid our whayt flags held hagh!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pr()ZaC
Spyre, I told you before! I won't let you have mensechs with metroidfox nor give you the secret address to the admins p0rn server! :drool:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Villainess
:lol: @ sig ............ now get me OUTTA THERE!! :mad:
metroidfox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jun 4, 2021, 12:49 PM   #47
kboye
9700PRO RIP
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Norway
Posts: 1,705
kboye can beat 'Minesweeper' on any difficultykboye can beat 'Minesweeper' on any difficulty


Default

yup first thing that struck me as well. Really interested to see this in action for myself, in a game.
__________________
-
I miss seing Dawn on my Eizo T965 21" CRT with ATi 9700 PRO. RIP.
kboye is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jun 4, 2021, 02:02 PM   #48
Trunks0
Keeping an open mind
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Canada Vancouver, B.C., Canada
Posts: 21,268
Trunks0 can recite pi backwardsTrunks0 can recite pi backwardsTrunks0 can recite pi backwardsTrunks0 can recite pi backwardsTrunks0 can recite pi backwardsTrunks0 can recite pi backwardsTrunks0 can recite pi backwards


Subscriber
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by metroidfox View Post
For anyone who's been paying attention, UE 5 already relies on temporal super resolution for its rendering.

It seems like AMD has taken a page out of Epic's playbook (who in turn seem to have been keeping up with research).

You can literally see the effect in motion right now by downloading the UE5 dev kit.

I don't know much about the newer papers on them, but there do seem to be a lot. And I suspect a bunch of them take object recognition into account, so there will almost be nothing in it between DLSS and this.


There is a big difference that we now know though. FSR didn't end up using temporal data, where are EPIC's explicitly does. So there is a divergence in tech there.

But what EPIC has done... it kinda the logical fallout as upscaling tech gets more common.
__________________
-Trunks0
not speaking for all and if I am wrong I never said it.
(plz note that is meant as a joke)


System:
Asus TUF Gaming X570-Pro - AMD Ryzen 7 5800x - Noctua NH-D15S chromax.Black - 32gb of G.Skill Trident Z NEO - Asus DRW-24F1ST DVD±RW - Samsung 850 Evo 250Gib - 4TiB Seagate - XFX MERC 308 Radeon RX 6600XT - Creative AE-5 Plus - Windows 10 64-bit
Trunks0 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jun 4, 2021, 05:04 PM   #49
metroidfox
dAMD fanATical nVidiot
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 6,894
metroidfox can beat 'Minesweeper' on any difficultymetroidfox can beat 'Minesweeper' on any difficulty


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trunks0 View Post
There is a big difference that we now know though. FSR didn't end up using temporal data, where are EPIC's explicitly does. So there is a divergence in tech there.

But what EPIC has done... it kinda the logical fallout as upscaling tech gets more common.
I was going to say that they name dropped temporal super resolution in the AMD release video, but it's actually 'spatial upscaling' they mentioned. https://youtu.be/eHPmkJzwOFc?t=57

That's DLSS 1.

DLSS 2 uses motion information.



https://www.anandtech.com/show/16723...game-upscaling
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Koenig39
Okeh zhentlemain, we well commonce spe-cial operashun "Surraindair" at four-dirty. We well sneek pass dair defances wid our whayt flags held hagh!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pr()ZaC
Spyre, I told you before! I won't let you have mensechs with metroidfox nor give you the secret address to the admins p0rn server! :drool:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Villainess
:lol: @ sig ............ now get me OUTTA THERE!! :mad:
metroidfox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jun 4, 2021, 06:52 PM   #50
pax
Rage3D Spammer
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Canada Grand Falls, New Brunswick, Canada
Posts: 30,099
pax once won a refrigerator on 'The Price is Right'pax once won a refrigerator on 'The Price is Right'pax once won a refrigerator on 'The Price is Right'pax once won a refrigerator on 'The Price is Right'pax once won a refrigerator on 'The Price is Right'pax once won a refrigerator on 'The Price is Right'


Default

Nvidia added motion info to spatial upscaling but seems spatial is still the root of the tech of dlss.

Quote:
For GPU junkies, many of you will recognize this as a similar strategy to how NVIDIA designed DLSS 1.0, which was all about spatial upscaling by using pre-trained, game-specific neural network models. DLSS 1.0 was ultimately a failure – it couldn’t consistently produce acceptable results and temporal artifacting was all too common. It wasn’t until NVIDIA introduced DLSS 2.0, a significantly expanded version of the technology that integrated motion vector data (essentially creating Temporal AA on steroids), that they finally got DLSS as we know it in working order.

Given NVIDIA’s experience with spatial-only upscaling, I’m concerned that AMD is going to repeat NVIDIA’s early mistakes. Spatial is a lot easier to do on the backend – and requires a lot less work from developers – but the lack of motion vector data presents some challenges. In particular, motion vectors are the traditional solution to countering temporal artifacting in TAA/DLSS, which is what ensures that there are no frame-by-frame oddities or other rendering errors from moving objects. Which is not to say that spatial-only upscaling can’t work, only that, if it’s competitive in image quality with DLSS, that would be a big first for AMD.
For all we know the added year or 2 of work AMD took to work on the tech might have overcome some of the issues. And maybe enabling other features like CAS while using FSR also helps image quality.
__________________
I talked to the tree. Thats why they put me away!..." Peter Sellers, The Goon Show
Only superficial people cant be superficial... Oscar Wilde
https://www.plasma-universe.com/pseudoskepticism/

Piledriver Rig 2016: Gigabyte G1 gaming 990fx. FX 8350 cpu. XFX RX 480 GTR Cats 21.6.1, SoundBlaster ZXR, 2 x 8 gig ddr3 1866 Kingston. 1 x 2tb Firecuda seagate with 8 gig mlc SSHD. Sharp 60" 4k 60 hz tv. Win 10 home.

Ryzen Rig 2017: Gigabyte X370 K7 F50d bios. Ryzen 5800X3D :). 2 x 8 ddr4 3600 (@3200) Cas 16 Gskill. Sapphire Vega 64 Reference Cooler Cats 22.4.1. 1700 mhz @1.1v. Soundblaster X Ae5, 32" Dell S3220DGF 1440p Freesync Premium Pro monitor, Kingston A2000 1TB NVME. 4 TB HGST NAS HD. Win 11 pro.

Ignore List: Keystone, Andino... -My Baron, he wishes to inform you that vendetta, as he puts it in the ancient tongue, the art of kanlee is still alive... He does not wish to meet or speak with you...-
"Either half my colleagues are enormously stupid, or else the science of darwinism is fully compatible with conventional religious beliefs and equally compatible with atheism." -Stephen Jay Gould, Rock of Ages.
"The Intelligibility of the Universe itself needs explanation. It is not the gaps of understanding of the world that points to God but rather the very comprehensibility of scientific and other forms of understanding that requires an explanation." -Richard Swinburne


www.realitysandwich.com

www.makepovertyhistory.org
pax is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jun 5, 2021, 11:17 PM   #51
SubCog
Radeon Arctic Islands
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: United States Caketown
Posts: 21,873
SubCog doesn't need no stinkin' badgesSubCog doesn't need no stinkin' badgesSubCog doesn't need no stinkin' badgesSubCog doesn't need no stinkin' badgesSubCog doesn't need no stinkin' badgesSubCog doesn't need no stinkin' badgesSubCog doesn't need no stinkin' badgesSubCog doesn't need no stinkin' badges


Default

FSR will not match DLSS in image quality. The best hope is that it will be a "good enough" solution, with massive adoption rates, and kindof brand DLSS as the snooty master-race option, while FSR is the every-day working man solution.

btw, I used to go to church with the guy who led the R&D for DLSS. He's got quite an amazing team over there, and Nvidia has invested in them for several years. This is an area where AMD is simply out-gunned... they're not going to spend a couple years throwing together a solution that matches the work Nvidia has done. FSR will improve over the next couple years, but so will DLSS, and DLSS will ALWAYS have better quality.

FSR will be fine. DLSS will be fine. There's room for both in the market.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by KAC View Post
To be honest I never even found doom 3 to be scary since I have a big dick since birth.

Ryzen 5 5600x - radeon 6700xt - 32 gigs memory


Nintendo: NES, SNES, N64, Gamecube, Wii, Wii U, Switch, Gameboy, Gameboy Pocket, Gameboy Color, Virtual Boy, 6 GBAs, DS, 3ds
Sega: Sega Master System, Genesis, 32x, Sega CD, Saturn, Dreamcast, Game Gear
Sony: PS1, PS2, PS3, PS4, PSP
Microsoft: og xbox, xbox360, xbone, series 3
Atari: Atari 2600, 7800
Neo Geo: Neo Geo Pocket Color
Other: Colecovision, Intellivision, Vectrex

riva tnt
tnt2
geforce2mx
kyro 2
radeon 8500
radeon 9600
radeon 9800pro
radeon x800pro
geforce 8800gtx
radeon 6850
radeon 280
radeon 580
radeon 6700xt
SubCog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jun 5, 2021, 11:49 PM   #52
pax
Rage3D Spammer
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Canada Grand Falls, New Brunswick, Canada
Posts: 30,099
pax once won a refrigerator on 'The Price is Right'pax once won a refrigerator on 'The Price is Right'pax once won a refrigerator on 'The Price is Right'pax once won a refrigerator on 'The Price is Right'pax once won a refrigerator on 'The Price is Right'pax once won a refrigerator on 'The Price is Right'


Default

While I cant see myself using anything other than the top quality option in any upscaler I can see that the top amd upscaler might be one notch below the top dlss.

And thats with adding CAS to FSR but the thing is I cant see myself using any upscaler unless absolutely necessary. If the game runs ok at native I wont use any upscaler.

If Id have to run a lower level quality setting Id rather just upgrade.
__________________
I talked to the tree. Thats why they put me away!..." Peter Sellers, The Goon Show
Only superficial people cant be superficial... Oscar Wilde
https://www.plasma-universe.com/pseudoskepticism/

Piledriver Rig 2016: Gigabyte G1 gaming 990fx. FX 8350 cpu. XFX RX 480 GTR Cats 21.6.1, SoundBlaster ZXR, 2 x 8 gig ddr3 1866 Kingston. 1 x 2tb Firecuda seagate with 8 gig mlc SSHD. Sharp 60" 4k 60 hz tv. Win 10 home.

Ryzen Rig 2017: Gigabyte X370 K7 F50d bios. Ryzen 5800X3D :). 2 x 8 ddr4 3600 (@3200) Cas 16 Gskill. Sapphire Vega 64 Reference Cooler Cats 22.4.1. 1700 mhz @1.1v. Soundblaster X Ae5, 32" Dell S3220DGF 1440p Freesync Premium Pro monitor, Kingston A2000 1TB NVME. 4 TB HGST NAS HD. Win 11 pro.

Ignore List: Keystone, Andino... -My Baron, he wishes to inform you that vendetta, as he puts it in the ancient tongue, the art of kanlee is still alive... He does not wish to meet or speak with you...-
"Either half my colleagues are enormously stupid, or else the science of darwinism is fully compatible with conventional religious beliefs and equally compatible with atheism." -Stephen Jay Gould, Rock of Ages.
"The Intelligibility of the Universe itself needs explanation. It is not the gaps of understanding of the world that points to God but rather the very comprehensibility of scientific and other forms of understanding that requires an explanation." -Richard Swinburne


www.realitysandwich.com

www.makepovertyhistory.org
pax is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jul 17, 2021, 10:15 AM   #53
pax
Rage3D Spammer
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Canada Grand Falls, New Brunswick, Canada
Posts: 30,099
pax once won a refrigerator on 'The Price is Right'pax once won a refrigerator on 'The Price is Right'pax once won a refrigerator on 'The Price is Right'pax once won a refrigerator on 'The Price is Right'pax once won a refrigerator on 'The Price is Right'pax once won a refrigerator on 'The Price is Right'


Default

Finally some games that support both dlss and fsr to compare.

Quote:
AMD FSR has just been added to Necromunda Hired Gun, a fast-paced first-person shooter. Although this game is relatively new, it already offers support for NVIDIA DLSS as well as AMD FSR, being one of the first games to do so.

By offering DLSS and FSR support there is finally a way to compare both technologies side by side to determine which technology is better. This was partially done by Back4BuckPC Gamer who compared both technologies at 4K resolution when using their best quality profiles. This part is certainly important as DLSS has always been known to do wonders at lower resolutions, it is where machine learning upscaling algorithms show their true potential, reconstructing images from much fewer pixels.

On the other hand, there is AMD FidelityFX Super Resolution (FSR) which is now confirmed to be an implementation of Lanczos resampling that preserves edges. AMD themselves confirmed this by going open source with FSR. The source code, samples, and documentation are now all available to the public.

What is important to note is that NVIDIA DLSS Quality preset upscales the output image from 1440p resolution, while AMD FSR Ultra Quality uses 1662p image. Both upscaling techniques were compared side by side by Back4BuckPC Gamer in Necromunda Hired Gun. He used 4K resolution and the best quality presets. The higher the quality the fewer pixels super-resolution algorithms need to reconstruct, thus, they are expected to perform similarly.


https://videocardz.com/newz/amd-fsr-...unda-hired-gun
__________________
I talked to the tree. Thats why they put me away!..." Peter Sellers, The Goon Show
Only superficial people cant be superficial... Oscar Wilde
https://www.plasma-universe.com/pseudoskepticism/

Piledriver Rig 2016: Gigabyte G1 gaming 990fx. FX 8350 cpu. XFX RX 480 GTR Cats 21.6.1, SoundBlaster ZXR, 2 x 8 gig ddr3 1866 Kingston. 1 x 2tb Firecuda seagate with 8 gig mlc SSHD. Sharp 60" 4k 60 hz tv. Win 10 home.

Ryzen Rig 2017: Gigabyte X370 K7 F50d bios. Ryzen 5800X3D :). 2 x 8 ddr4 3600 (@3200) Cas 16 Gskill. Sapphire Vega 64 Reference Cooler Cats 22.4.1. 1700 mhz @1.1v. Soundblaster X Ae5, 32" Dell S3220DGF 1440p Freesync Premium Pro monitor, Kingston A2000 1TB NVME. 4 TB HGST NAS HD. Win 11 pro.

Ignore List: Keystone, Andino... -My Baron, he wishes to inform you that vendetta, as he puts it in the ancient tongue, the art of kanlee is still alive... He does not wish to meet or speak with you...-
"Either half my colleagues are enormously stupid, or else the science of darwinism is fully compatible with conventional religious beliefs and equally compatible with atheism." -Stephen Jay Gould, Rock of Ages.
"The Intelligibility of the Universe itself needs explanation. It is not the gaps of understanding of the world that points to God but rather the very comprehensibility of scientific and other forms of understanding that requires an explanation." -Richard Swinburne


www.realitysandwich.com

www.makepovertyhistory.org
pax is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jul 17, 2021, 10:18 AM   #54
Nunz
RIP Roxen
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 32,147
Nunz glows with the radiance of a thousand sunsNunz glows with the radiance of a thousand sunsNunz glows with the radiance of a thousand sunsNunz glows with the radiance of a thousand sunsNunz glows with the radiance of a thousand sunsNunz glows with the radiance of a thousand sunsNunz glows with the radiance of a thousand sunsNunz glows with the radiance of a thousand sunsNunz glows with the radiance of a thousand sunsNunz glows with the radiance of a thousand sunsNunz glows with the radiance of a thousand suns


Default

Necromunda looks insane. FSR looks phenomenal as well .. much better than any other game has shown.

Here's FSR in Necromunda on a 6900XT, comparing 4K Native vs FSR 1.0:



Make sure you watch in 4K.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by curio View Post
Eat this protein bar, for it is of my body. And drink this creatine shake, for it is my blood.
"If you can't handle me when I'm bulking, you don't deserve me when I'm cut." -- Marilyn Monbroe
Nunz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jul 17, 2021, 10:31 AM   #55
pax
Rage3D Spammer
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Canada Grand Falls, New Brunswick, Canada
Posts: 30,099
pax once won a refrigerator on 'The Price is Right'pax once won a refrigerator on 'The Price is Right'pax once won a refrigerator on 'The Price is Right'pax once won a refrigerator on 'The Price is Right'pax once won a refrigerator on 'The Price is Right'pax once won a refrigerator on 'The Price is Right'


Default

Nice, was wondering if the chainlink fence would show it but cant tell the diff...
__________________
I talked to the tree. Thats why they put me away!..." Peter Sellers, The Goon Show
Only superficial people cant be superficial... Oscar Wilde
https://www.plasma-universe.com/pseudoskepticism/

Piledriver Rig 2016: Gigabyte G1 gaming 990fx. FX 8350 cpu. XFX RX 480 GTR Cats 21.6.1, SoundBlaster ZXR, 2 x 8 gig ddr3 1866 Kingston. 1 x 2tb Firecuda seagate with 8 gig mlc SSHD. Sharp 60" 4k 60 hz tv. Win 10 home.

Ryzen Rig 2017: Gigabyte X370 K7 F50d bios. Ryzen 5800X3D :). 2 x 8 ddr4 3600 (@3200) Cas 16 Gskill. Sapphire Vega 64 Reference Cooler Cats 22.4.1. 1700 mhz @1.1v. Soundblaster X Ae5, 32" Dell S3220DGF 1440p Freesync Premium Pro monitor, Kingston A2000 1TB NVME. 4 TB HGST NAS HD. Win 11 pro.

Ignore List: Keystone, Andino... -My Baron, he wishes to inform you that vendetta, as he puts it in the ancient tongue, the art of kanlee is still alive... He does not wish to meet or speak with you...-
"Either half my colleagues are enormously stupid, or else the science of darwinism is fully compatible with conventional religious beliefs and equally compatible with atheism." -Stephen Jay Gould, Rock of Ages.
"The Intelligibility of the Universe itself needs explanation. It is not the gaps of understanding of the world that points to God but rather the very comprehensibility of scientific and other forms of understanding that requires an explanation." -Richard Swinburne


www.realitysandwich.com

www.makepovertyhistory.org
pax is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jul 17, 2021, 11:00 AM   #56
Sound_Card
Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: United States Constantinople
Posts: 14,631
Sound_Card can beat 'Minesweeper' on any difficultySound_Card can beat 'Minesweeper' on any difficulty


Default

looks considerably better than ''just an upscaler'' that I read from the other fanboys. Because if it is, than A.I is looking more and more like a marketing flex.
Sound_Card is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jul 17, 2021, 11:43 AM   #57
Nunz
RIP Roxen
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 32,147
Nunz glows with the radiance of a thousand sunsNunz glows with the radiance of a thousand sunsNunz glows with the radiance of a thousand sunsNunz glows with the radiance of a thousand sunsNunz glows with the radiance of a thousand sunsNunz glows with the radiance of a thousand sunsNunz glows with the radiance of a thousand sunsNunz glows with the radiance of a thousand sunsNunz glows with the radiance of a thousand sunsNunz glows with the radiance of a thousand sunsNunz glows with the radiance of a thousand suns


Default

To be fair, this is really the only game that I think FSR looks good in. It's new tech, and in classic AMD fashion, they did not showcase FSR in a good way when they revealed it.

If Necromunda will be the standard for FSR implementation, then woo! The other thing, is that DLSS has an Ultra Quality feature also on the way, which should put it back on top. IIRC, DLSS Quality is using a lower resolution image for the upscaling than FSR Ultra Quality. Once Ultra Quality DLSS comes out, I'd expect it to take back the throne. I think the A.I. implementation of DLSS is shown just how good it is, in this case, because it's able to take a lower resolution image and make it look as good or slightly better than the higher resolution image that FSR is starting with.

Either way, I'm glad this isn't turning out to be a **** implementation. I was not impressed whatsoever with FSR in any other examples thus far. This was a great sight to see
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by curio View Post
Eat this protein bar, for it is of my body. And drink this creatine shake, for it is my blood.
"If you can't handle me when I'm bulking, you don't deserve me when I'm cut." -- Marilyn Monbroe
Nunz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jul 17, 2021, 12:33 PM   #58
Sound_Card
Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: United States Constantinople
Posts: 14,631
Sound_Card can beat 'Minesweeper' on any difficultySound_Card can beat 'Minesweeper' on any difficulty


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nunz View Post
To be fair, this is really the only game that I think FSR looks good in. It's new tech, and in classic AMD fashion, they did not showcase FSR in a good way when they revealed it.

If Necromunda will be the standard for FSR implementation, then woo! The other thing, is that DLSS has an Ultra Quality feature also on the way, which should put it back on top. IIRC, DLSS Quality is using a lower resolution image for the upscaling than FSR Ultra Quality. Once Ultra Quality DLSS comes out, I'd expect it to take back the throne. I think the A.I. implementation of DLSS is shown just how good it is, in this case, because it's able to take a lower resolution image and make it look as good or slightly better than the higher resolution image that FSR is starting with.

Either way, I'm glad this isn't turning out to be a **** implementation. I was not impressed whatsoever with FSR in any other examples thus far. This was a great sight to see
From what I have seen, just keep it on 4k highest setting. Granted, that requires a 4k monitor.
Sound_Card is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jul 17, 2021, 12:38 PM   #59
Nunz
RIP Roxen
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 32,147
Nunz glows with the radiance of a thousand sunsNunz glows with the radiance of a thousand sunsNunz glows with the radiance of a thousand sunsNunz glows with the radiance of a thousand sunsNunz glows with the radiance of a thousand sunsNunz glows with the radiance of a thousand sunsNunz glows with the radiance of a thousand sunsNunz glows with the radiance of a thousand sunsNunz glows with the radiance of a thousand sunsNunz glows with the radiance of a thousand sunsNunz glows with the radiance of a thousand suns


Default

Nah. The much smoother frametimes are welcomed at 4K. FSR/DLSS, in the case of Necromunda, actually looks better in some ways than native 4K; the hair is a big improvement with DLSS over FSR/Native.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by curio View Post
Eat this protein bar, for it is of my body. And drink this creatine shake, for it is my blood.
"If you can't handle me when I'm bulking, you don't deserve me when I'm cut." -- Marilyn Monbroe
Nunz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jul 17, 2021, 12:40 PM   #60
Sound_Card
Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: United States Constantinople
Posts: 14,631
Sound_Card can beat 'Minesweeper' on any difficultySound_Card can beat 'Minesweeper' on any difficulty


Default

I mean 4k FSR highest setting. If you can, because from all the games I have seen it is either the same or better than native. Pretty impressive start. Not sure if they can improve the lower resolutions that much. A lot less pixel information to work with.
Sound_Card is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Why isn't anyone talking about... P1x44r Off Topic Lounge 31 May 21, 2007 12:03 AM
Now THIS is a guy who doesn't know what he's talking about Pr()ZaC AMD Radeon Discussion and Support 27 Sep 1, 2004 02:01 AM
what are ppl talking about? the chase PC Gaming 23 Aug 3, 2004 02:22 AM
Now that's what I'm talking about !! DSOTM Off Topic Lounge 20 Aug 2, 2001 12:01 AM
Someone knows what i'm talking about Citzeasley Off Topic Lounge 8 Apr 21, 2001 02:58 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:53 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
All trademarks used are properties of their respective owners. Copyright ©1998-2011 Rage3D.com
Links monetized by VigLink