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Old May 26, 2021, 09:19 PM   #151
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https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...-ufo-question/

We need to put science at the center of the UFO question

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Ravi Kopparapu is a planetary scientist at NASA Goddard Space Flight Center. Jacob Haqq-Misra is a research scientist at the Blue Marble Space Institute of Science.

With a government report due in June on unidentified aerial phenomena (UAP) and a recent “60 Minutes” story on U.S. Navy pilots’ sightings and videos of mysterious images, prominent people in politics, the military and national intelligence are finally asking: What are we looking at?

It’s the wrong question — or, at least, it’s premature.

Before we get to what these mysterious phenomena are, we need to be asking how we can figure out what they are. This is where scientists, notably absent from the current UAP conversation, come in.

For too long, the scientific study of unidentified flying objects and aerial phenomena — UFOs and UAPs, in the shorthand — has been taboo. A big driver of that taboo is the vacuum of knowledge that is being filled by unscientific claims thanks to a lack of scientific investigation.

In recent decades, science has focused on aspects of extraterrestrial inquiry, including the search for signs of life on other planets — think the Mars rover— and techno-signatures — radio signals that appear to emanate from outside Earth.

The research has been complex, evidence-based and demanding, pulling in scientists from across disciplines and all around the globe. The same should be true for the exploration of UAP sightings. If we want to understand what UAP are, then we need to engage the mainstream scientific community in a concerted effort to study them.

Decades ago, the notion of serious research on UFOs wasn’t out of the question.
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Old May 26, 2021, 09:32 PM   #152
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If the June report can finally sideline the political and cultural walls that have been put up for decades the scientific community can finally take up the study of UAP's.

We should be able to do something from loading aircraft with scientific equipment to getting more qualified reports from both military and civilian observation to see if there are any patterns to what they are doing to multidisciplinary evaluations as time goes on of what has been a widespread phenomenon...
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Old May 27, 2021, 11:25 AM   #153
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You're looking at that the wrong way. You assume there's been a lack of science in investigating UFO's. What this is actually (and always has been) is a lack of anything of substance to investigate. It's funny the Washington post piece mentions this, but it's like this for a reason.

This is like demanding there needs to be more scientific studies into the existence of ghosts. Sure, you can pay or fund dedicated research into it. But no matter the result there will always be "believers" even if you come out and explain one particular phenomenon.

In this case we have so much technology peering out into the skies, both near and far into the cosmos, intrinsic studies of other planets including landing our own rovers, a UFO sighting on earth with no interstellar origin and no physical or material confirmation isn't going to merit much thought in the scientific community.

And why should they? Just because some people want to make the amazingly flawed leap of logic that something you don't know must be aliens?

So my point is that the science is already there to be acknowledged. You can throw more research and funding but if you don't acknowledge what the current scientific evidence indicates (these aren't from interstellar origin), then more than likely you won't accept any further findings either. Not to mention, you put any black box project at risk for something we might need in any near future warfare. Especially since jet fighters are rapidly becoming relics of the past and drones are the future for military warfare.
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Old May 27, 2021, 11:54 AM   #154
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You're looking at that the wrong way. You assume there's been a lack of science in investigating UFO's. What this is actually (and always has been) is a lack of anything of substance to investigate...
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Old May 27, 2021, 12:42 PM   #155
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A thought I've been mulling over for a while... what if what they're really observing is a localized and directed heated region.. ie. Russia or china ****ing with us, trying to develop technology to distract our sensors, etc... decoys.


https://www.businessinsider.com/pent...ry-reid-2020-4

Quote:
FLIR has no pilot commentary but shows a dark, oblong shape being tracked by the infrared camera.

...

GOFAST, January 2015

This clip shows what looks like the ocean surface as a small object skims past the camera at high speed.

...

GIMBAL, January 2015
In the 34-second footage, the aircraft's infrared camera tracks a saucer-like object flying above clouds as pilots discuss what it could be.

Unclear what the GoFast sensors were, but FLIR and GIMBAL were infrared.

Maybe a focused microwave beam from a satellite which is heating up sea air in a local pocket. By swinging around the beam the heated region could "move", and doesn't need to obey inertia, etc because it's not a physical thing at all. Like a fancy laser pointer.


This might tie into the Microwave-sickness our diplomats have been exposed to.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/05/b...ve-attack.html

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WASHINGTON — The most probable cause of a series of mysterious afflictions that sickened American spies and diplomats abroad in the past several years was radiofrequency energy, a type of radiation that includes microwaves, the National Academies of Sciences, Engineering, and Medicine has concluded in a report.

The conclusion by a committee of 19 experts in medicine and other fields cited “directed, pulsed radiofrequency energy” as “the most plausible mechanism” to explain the illness, which came to be known as Havana syndrome, though they said that they could not rule out other possible causes and that secondary factors may have contributed to symptoms, according to a copy of the report obtained by The New York Times.
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Old May 27, 2021, 01:10 PM   #156
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The thought of russia or china being able to spoof visual, flir and radar at the same time means we are ****ed. They could flood us with mirages and fly right through. It would make our relative stealth obsolete.

We have microwave weapons that can knock fleets of drones out of the sky tho so maybe we'll have to wipe everything that flies in a given area if **** hits the fan.


Quote:
So my point is that the science is already there to be acknowledged.
Not if no one is doing the science which hasnt been done since Blue book shut down in 69. Small underfunded private groups who at best collect reports like Mufon dont count. In the gov AATIP and its predecessor was a very small short lived admin group funded by only 22 million$ for a decade or so who only collected reports. I dont know of any in the scientific community public or private who organized serious research because that takes money.

I really dont agree with the ghost analogy ufos have far more serious observations than ghosts. And just how many more we might get a hint of in the June report.

There might be more of those 'we saw them every day for 2 years off the east coast' kinds of files.
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Old May 27, 2021, 02:56 PM   #157
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Speaking of which:



tldw up to 100 drones at a time sometimes featuring a main drone parked over a given ship while others circulate around the navy ship. Microwave drone takedown systems used but inneffective...

That last is a bit disturbing but the drones were not responding to communication.
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Old May 27, 2021, 03:48 PM   #158
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Microwave drone takedown systems used but inneffective...


You'd think they'd have spun up the CIWS in that case.
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Old May 27, 2021, 04:29 PM   #159
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Ya really hope they dont do that. But maybe it was because the other ships nearby would be at risk...
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Old May 27, 2021, 06:12 PM   #160
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You'd think they'd have spun up the CIWS in that case.
It's tough to shoot something down if it moves faster than your bullets.
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Old May 27, 2021, 07:36 PM   #161
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Is it worth spending money to research this. Yes.

Is it worth putting a government agency that reports to Congress for quarterly updates? Yes.

Is it worth giving money to academia to study this phenomenon and come up with the next steps. Yes.

Is it worth spending money to try to capture or initiate first contact with whatever this is? Absolutely.
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Old May 28, 2021, 04:14 AM   #162
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Originally Posted by AllexxisF1 View Post
Is it worth spending money to research this. Yes.

Is it worth putting a government agency that reports to Congress for quarterly updates? Yes.

Is it worth giving money to academia to study this phenomenon and come up with the next steps. Yes.

Is it worth spending money to try to capture or initiate first contact with whatever this is? Absolutely.
I think we need to understand that there are obvious priorities that need to be addressed first. Don't want to get too P&R here, but is it worth it to spend all that money and resources on when we have other problems like kids going hungry....
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Old May 28, 2021, 04:31 AM   #163
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I think we need to understand that there are obvious priorities that need to be addressed first. Don't want to get too P&R here, but is it worth it to spend all that money and resources on when we have other problems like kids going hungry....


Good excuse for a massive slush fund.....comes to mind.
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Old May 28, 2021, 08:50 AM   #164
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Originally Posted by AllexxisF1 View Post
Is it worth spending money to research this. Yes.

Is it worth putting a government agency that reports to Congress for quarterly updates? Yes.

Is it worth giving money to academia to study this phenomenon and come up with the next steps. Yes.

Is it worth spending money to try to capture or initiate first contact with whatever this is? Absolutely.
None of these matter (especially your last point which still shows you're jumping to aliens ) if it's our own technology under our own experimental programs. These projects starve for funding and ways to hide funding can be tricky. Though, getting funding through "UFO investigations" would be quite an ironic twist.
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Old May 28, 2021, 10:28 AM   #165
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I think we need to understand that there are obvious priorities that need to be addressed first. Don't want to get too P&R here, but is it worth it to spend all that money and resources on when we have other problems like kids going hungry....
Thats the kind of argument they use against Nasa all the time.

One doesnt mean we cant do the other.
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Old May 28, 2021, 01:12 PM   #166
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Thats the kind of argument they use against Nasa all the time.

One doesnt mean we cant do the other.
But we don't.

Poverty is still a problem.
Hunger is still a problem.
Healthcare is still a problem.
Education is still a problem.
Elderly care is still a problem.

I mean, All of these problems are more important than things flying around that we can't identify.

And all of those problems deserve funding more than research into UFOs.

At least with NASA there was some general good and advances that came from it. Can't say that there'll be the same with UFO research..
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Old May 28, 2021, 01:38 PM   #167
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The real money is in such as tax cuts and gross income disparities favoring the wealthy and defense budgets... small scientific investigations arent an issue.
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Old May 28, 2021, 03:40 PM   #168
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Thats the kind of argument they use against Nasa all the time.

One doesnt mean we cant do the other.
Any research and funding we put into the military and NASA almost always will have a positive consumer effect. Maybe not right away, but research and technology will trickle down.
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Old May 28, 2021, 08:06 PM   #169
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But we don't.

Poverty is still a problem.
Hunger is still a problem.
Healthcare is still a problem.
Education is still a problem.
Elderly care is still a problem...
Moments later at the Shady Pines Retirement Home...

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Old May 28, 2021, 09:20 PM   #170
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Any research and funding we put into the military and NASA almost always will have a positive consumer effect. Maybe not right away, but research and technology will trickle down.

Thats my point. So what if a UAP study lets us find out they are man made but have an amazing source of energy to power their flight. Which they would need by many estimates. Itd be nice because a man made tech is likely far easier to figure out than an alien tech.

Isnt that worth a study?
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Old May 31, 2021, 03:31 PM   #171
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Originally Posted by pax View Post
Thats my point. So what if a UAP study lets us find out they are man made but have an amazing source of energy to power their flight. Which they would need by many estimates. Itd be nice because a man made tech is likely far easier to figure out than an alien tech.

Isnt that worth a study?
There is a very, very small chance that putting money into UFO research has any return on investment mainly because there is a very, very high chance that there are no UFO's to research.
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Old May 31, 2021, 09:51 PM   #172
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going from memory sooo.. Biden's 6 trillion dollar spending spree. I think 1.5 trillion was for military spending. DAMN! Tell me the military wants more $$ without telling me the military wants more $$. They'll "investigate" UAPs.
I'm the first in line when it comes to wanting to know what this phenomenon is, but how much $ are they going to spend while people starve?
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Old May 31, 2021, 09:58 PM   #173
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Originally Posted by Leprechaun View Post
going from memory sooo.. Biden's 6 trillion dollar spending spree. I think 1.5 trillion was for military spending. DAMN! Tell me the military wants more $$ without telling me the military wants more $$. They'll "investigate" UAPs.
I'm the first in line when it comes to wanting to know what this phenomenon is, but how much $ are they going to spend while people starve?
The military budget is obscene but any investigation of uap's will be a handful of millions... so relatively little its not worth complaining about. The thing about scientific investigations is they dont usually cost obscene amounts of money. If we can only get a hint of the power source of what drives these things we may crack an key egg that would drive us not just out of fossil fuels entirely but also to do an enormous number of things we wouldnt conceive of right now because the current power budget wouldnt work.

If we could dive the cost of a kw/h down to 10% of what it currently is the stuff we could do would be mindboggling.
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Old May 31, 2021, 11:59 PM   #174
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Originally Posted by pax View Post
The military budget is obscene but any investigation of uap's will be a handful of millions... so relatively little its not worth complaining about
Wonder how much food a handful of millions of dollars could buy starving children...

Quote:
The thing about scientific investigations is they dont usually cost obscene amounts of money.
They don't?

Quote:
If we can only get a hint of the power source of what drives these things we may crack an key egg that would drive us not just out of fossil fuels entirely but also to do an enormous number of things we wouldnt conceive of right now because the current power budget wouldnt work.
I think investing in solar tech would give a better ROI than looking for aliens. We have a fusion reactor in the sky that could give us unlimited power that we could draw from. Why not use what we know is real instead of looking for little green men to give us their tech?

Quote:
If we could dive the cost of a kw/h down to 10% of what it currently is the stuff we could do would be mindboggling.
Solar already can.

EDIT: Not to mention wind power generation.....
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Old Jun 1, 2021, 11:01 AM   #175
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Yes let's focus money on "Aliens" power sources rather than actually real technology.

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Old Jun 1, 2021, 02:35 PM   #176
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https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/01/o...owTranscript=1

Obama Explains How America Went From ‘Yes We Can’ to ‘MAGA’
The former president also discusses Joe Biden, aliens and three of his favorite books.



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Old Jun 2, 2021, 07:57 AM   #177
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Yes let's focus money on "Aliens" power sources rather than actually real technology.

We're going to take a few measly million, buy GME stock and when the squeeze is sqoozen, we're gonna invent a mega butterfly net.

Trust me Mate, this plan is fool-proof.
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Old Jun 2, 2021, 12:03 PM   #178
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Solar already can.

EDIT: Not to mention wind power generation.....
Its not just the price its the amount and the base load. At 10% the current costs it means we could buy a lot more energy, arguably 10x or even more, for intensive issues like a proper full recycling system, desalination, cleaning up waste dumps ect... Not this 'we do a little bit of the easy **** and ship the megatons of crap we dont recycle to third world countries' like we do now.

I really doubt we generate 10x or more power from solar or wind farms we wont have some up in arms over the size the fields necessary to do so. Its a struggle as it is to get permits to build them now up here even tho we have a ton of space and lots of wind to do so.
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Old Jun 2, 2021, 04:02 PM   #179
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Its not just the price its the amount and the base load. At 10% the current costs it means we could buy a lot more energy, arguably 10x or even more, for intensive issues like a proper full recycling system, desalination, cleaning up waste dumps ect... Not this 'we do a little bit of the easy **** and ship the megatons of crap we dont recycle to third world countries' like we do now.

I really doubt we generate 10x or more power from solar or wind farms we wont have some up in arms over the size the fields necessary to do so. Its a struggle as it is to get permits to build them now up here even tho we have a ton of space and lots of wind to do so.
You realize that you are comparing real things like solar and wind energy to made up things like alien power sources, right?
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Old Jun 2, 2021, 04:59 PM   #180
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I dont think the observations of these things are made up. Everyone who has considered the evidence is pretty impressed not just by the performance but also autonomy of these flying things. Whatever is powering them is something else.
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