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Other Graphics Cards and 3D Technologies Discussion forum for any graphics hardware not provided by AMD/ATI. Also place to discuss 3D technologies such as 3D Stereo, PhysX and other interesting developments/rumours in the 3D industry.

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Old Dec 17, 2021, 10:37 AM   #1051
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Originally Posted by acroig View Post
But, again, that's not true thanks to DLSS.
The dev gave the oficial minimum requirements for RTX :P
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Old Dec 17, 2021, 11:35 AM   #1052
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The dev gave the oficial minimum requirements for RTX :P
One game sykes, you can't make broad generalizations over ONE game. Makes your argument look silly.
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Old Dec 17, 2021, 11:51 AM   #1053
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One game sykes, you can't make broad generalizations over ONE game. Makes your argument look silly.
It's not about one game.Nvidia has to push the RTX much harder otherwise there is no justification for next gen cards.The 3000 series can handle the non-RTX scenarios fine.Even my 5 year old Vega56 is still fine in 1080p at high and very high in latest games like RDR 2 and FC6.Nvidia is intersted in profit so there needs to be something that make the cards really kneel ... I feel the Dead by Deadlight 2 is opening a trend with 3080 to be an RTX 1080p 60fps card .. The next question is:
Ask yourself how many spent 2000$ to play at 1080p ? (except me ... of course) .... They may force your hand to upgrade.
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Old Dec 17, 2021, 12:06 PM   #1054
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1080p 60 is basically the same performance as 4k DLSS performance mode, so not too worried about it.

3080 owners with 4k displays won't need to run it at 1080p, it that's really the target then 4k DLSS performance mode will be just fine and look significantly better as well.
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Old Dec 17, 2021, 12:07 PM   #1055
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It's not about one game.Nvidia has to push the RTX much harder otherwise there is no justification for next gen cards.The 3000 series can handle the non-RTX scenarios fine.Even my 5 year old Vega56 is still fine in 1080p at high and very high in latest games like RDR 2 and FC6.Nvidia is intersted in profit so there needs to be something that make the cards really kneel ... I feel the Dead by Deadlight 2 is opening a trend with 3080 to be an RTX 1080p 60fps card .. The next question is:
Ask yourself how many spent 2000$ to play at 1080p ? (except me ... of course) .... They may force your hand to upgrade.
I really feel you are totally ignoring what DLSS can do for people that play at higher resolutions, as Exposed just mentioned.
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Old Dec 17, 2021, 12:13 PM   #1056
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Those recommended elements are without taking a scaler into consideration.
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Old Dec 17, 2021, 12:17 PM   #1057
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We will see. I still feel there is something fishy about this ...
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Old Dec 17, 2021, 12:23 PM   #1058
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It's not about one game.Nvidia has to push the RTX much harder otherwise there is no justification for next gen cards.The 3000 series can handle the non-RTX scenarios fine.Even my 5 year old Vega56 is still fine in 1080p at high and very high in latest games like RDR 2 and FC6.Nvidia is intersted in profit so there needs to be something that make the cards really kneel ... I feel the Dead by Deadlight 2 is opening a trend with 3080 to be an RTX 1080p 60fps card .. The next question is:
Ask yourself how many spent 2000$ to play at 1080p ? (except me ... of course) .... They may force your hand to upgrade.
I agree with some of this. Nvidia has to push resolution, features, differentiation and fidelity so gamers may desire to upgrade. NVidia isn't just selling Gpu's but also an ecosystem, imho.
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Old Dec 17, 2021, 12:33 PM   #1059
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Another note: in the HardWare UnBoxed video, I don't think I ever read or seen anyone zoom in 300 percent on a game loading screen to find a fidelity advantage.
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Old Dec 17, 2021, 01:40 PM   #1060
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Another note: in the HardWare UnBoxed video, I don't think I ever read or seen anyone zoom in 300 percent on a game loading screen to find a fidelity advantage.
And there would be a reason for that, no?

Exaggerated....
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Old Dec 17, 2021, 02:15 PM   #1061
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I can see the point raising that UI elements and load screens are Native quality with FSR but considering using NIS 85% and 77%, the differences are so slight, it did take a 300 percent zoomed in to point it out. And he blanketed there was no use of NIS if there is FSR implemented in the game; what if one has enough performance, one can use the 85% NIS scale? or thinks the FSR locked sharpener is too high or too less in a specific title, one can adjust the sharpener with NIS.
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Old Dec 18, 2021, 01:04 AM   #1062
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I'm fooling with the Icat image quality tool for the first time. Nifty tool and makes it so easy to compare. Haven't tried video yet.
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Old Dec 18, 2021, 01:45 AM   #1063
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You can see with near verticals and horizontals with strong color contrasts, the edge enhancement of Fsr. It's subtle but it does enhance over NIS.
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Old Dec 18, 2021, 03:52 AM   #1064
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Here I took some comparison shots in CS:Source, Map Italy from the CS spawn point @ 1920x1080, Maxed with 8x MSAA, using the lossless scaling app. Scaled from 900p and I also went all the way down to 720p with sharpening @ 5. I would never go that low, but differences are more extreme.

Used Flickr as it apppears to let you download the PNG's I uploaded.
https://flic.kr/s/aHBqjzvwmN

Points of interest.
- Lamp post and the window above it just off centre
- Power lines wires hanging down the far left ally
- Power lines handing down the right ally
- Tower/building far down the right ally

You can notice a brightening/hallowing(ringing) along allot of edges in the NIS images that are not there in FSR or Native. More noticeable of course with the 720p upscale with sharpening, but no one would go that low imho.

*edit* Hopefully i have some time to take some more tomorrow in a couple other games
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Old Dec 18, 2021, 06:19 AM   #1065
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I just tried the Italy map in the same area with no aa and with x8 aa scaling from 1440p to 4k and can't see any ringing artifacts, my sharpening was set to 15. I'll try 1080p scaled to 4k.
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Old Dec 18, 2021, 06:57 AM   #1066
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I may not be seeing it but the only artifacts noticeable is when the sharpening filter is set too high
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Old Dec 18, 2021, 02:13 PM   #1067
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Originally Posted by badsykes View Post
I feel the Dead by Deadlight 2 is opening a trend with 3080 to be an RTX 1080p 60fps card .. The next question is:
Ask yourself how many spent 2000$ to play at 1080p ? (except me ... of course) .... They may force your hand to upgrade.
badsykes why all the hating on the RTX3xxx series? Just ran a benchmark on Shadow of the Tomb Raider on ultra RTX (DLSS greyed out) at 3440x1440 and got average 85fps with minimum 61. Without ray tracing averaged 110 fps so enabling RT is a substantial hit but with my card very playable with ultra RT.

I know it's an old game but it's the only one I have with an in game benchmark that allows RT. I also have Metro Exodus which has a hidden benchmark and had similar scores. Those are very playable frame rates for Ray tracing enabled but it doesn't have to be enabled to enjoy the game.

If I need to use DLSS will I? Absolutely in a heart beat it's free, improves frame rates so what's not to like. Same goes for FSR if it's enabled for my card, I'll gratefully accept any help provided. In the future if I need to reduce some graphics settings I'll have no problem doing so whatsoever. TBH I left 1080p behind a long time ago and I would never spend $2,000 to play at that resolution.
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Old Dec 18, 2021, 02:45 PM   #1068
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badsykes why all the hating on the RTX3xxx series? Just ran a benchmark on Shadow of the Tomb Raider on ultra RTX (DLSS greyed out) at 3440x1440 and got average 85fps with minimum 61. Without ray tracing averaged 110 fps so enabling RT is a substantial hit but with my card very playable with ultra RT.

I know it's an old game but it's the only one I have with an in game benchmark that allows RT. I also have Metro Exodus which has a hidden benchmark and had similar scores. Those are very playable frame rates for Ray tracing enabled but it doesn't have to be enabled to enjoy the game.

If I need to use DLSS will I? Absolutely in a heart beat it's free, improves frame rates so what's not to like. Same goes for FSR if it's enabled for my card, I'll gratefully accept any help provided. In the future if I need to reduce some graphics settings I'll have no problem doing so whatsoever. TBH I left 1080p behind a long time ago and I would never spend $2,000 to play at that resolution.

I feel the RTX3080 level of performance should have been at 3060ti price to be entuziasthic over my vega56 for shader performance.The only card that i feel it's really worth for me is 3080.On the other hand the 3080 is too overpriced and underwhelming in RTX to be worth 2000$.Alsd instead of buying a 3060 ti for 830 euros is easier to just plug a 1080p monitor to my vega56...It feels underwhelming to buy a new gpu.Also i feel that nvidia is milking the situation and profit too much...


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Old Dec 18, 2021, 03:42 PM   #1069
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Not going to find anyone disgreeing that the price/performance ratio of the current cards is not utter garbage. Just a reality of the current world and yes it sucks
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Old Dec 18, 2021, 04:51 PM   #1070
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Not going to find anyone disgreeing that the price/performance ratio of the current cards is not utter garbage. Just a reality of the current world and yes it sucks
This!
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Old Dec 18, 2021, 06:35 PM   #1071
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I may not be seeing it but the only artifacts noticeable is when the sharpening filter is set too high
And that's fair. It relatively minor. But when people start going saying things like NIS is better, it comes down to the details. And when you break it down, NIS is not better quality than FSR.

So when it comes to the NIS SDK to implement gameside... it's utterly pointless as FSR does it better.
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Old Dec 18, 2021, 07:53 PM   #1072
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Imho,

Fsr offers more quality with edge enhancement and more seamless when added by the developer. Nis is more flexible and the 85 and 77 percent scaling settings offer good quality as long as there is a nice antii-aliasing foundation. They're both welcomed!
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Old Dec 18, 2021, 08:02 PM   #1073
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Imho,

Fsr offers more quality with edge enhancement and more seamless when added by the developer. Nis is more flexible and the 85 and 77 percent scaling settings offer good quality as long as there is a nice antii-aliasing foundation. They're both welcomed!
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Old Dec 19, 2021, 12:19 AM   #1074
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Not going to find anyone disgreeing that the price/performance ratio of the current cards is not utter garbage. Just a reality of the current world and yes it sucks
Even if it was at MSRP (400$) the 3060 ti still feels underwhelming card to upgrade my vega56..The thing is the 3060 ti is 50% better than my vega56 in 1440p on average.
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Old Dec 19, 2021, 01:11 AM   #1075
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It's faster than that. But sure, prices suck atm. Don't think it'll change soon.
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Old Dec 19, 2021, 06:57 AM   #1076
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It's faster than that. But sure, prices suck atm. Don't think it'll change soon.
Prices are insane.
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Old Dec 19, 2021, 09:19 AM   #1077
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I am curious for how much time people en mass are willing to pay this gpu prices.If people wouldn't pay them both companies would have to crash in some way or another.
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Old Dec 19, 2021, 10:57 AM   #1078
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Originally Posted by badsykes View Post
I am curious for how much time people en mass are willing to pay this gpu prices.If people wouldn't pay them both companies would have to crash in some way or another.
Demand has been sky high from both gamers and miners so prices will continue to stay high.
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Old Dec 20, 2021, 02:38 AM   #1079
Trunks0
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Demand has been sky high from both gamers and miners so prices will continue to stay high.
And the supply is crazy low right now. So it's kind of a perfect storm for high prices
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Old Dec 20, 2021, 07:10 AM   #1080
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And the supply is crazy low right now. So it's kind of a perfect storm for high prices
Indeed.
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