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Other Graphics Cards and 3D Technologies Discussion forum for any graphics hardware not provided by AMD/ATI. Also place to discuss 3D technologies such as 3D Stereo, PhysX and other interesting developments/rumours in the 3D industry.

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Old Feb 18, 2019, 06:40 AM   #1
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Seyiji
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Default Battlefield V DLSS Tested, The Biggest RTX Fail Of Them All




RTX and DLSS... 2019 is going to be a record BAD year...



Battlefield V DLSS Tests Trying to Find the Upside
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Old Feb 18, 2019, 07:10 AM   #2
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Swing and a miss. The summary he gives is spot on IMO. This was one of the features that people were really hyped about.
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Old Feb 18, 2019, 08:38 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by Greasy View Post
Swing and a miss. The summary he gives is spot on IMO. This was one of the features that people were really hyped about.
I know right. Coulda been a contender. Needed now more than ever with game engines getting to the point where even 4k isn't enough to get rid of jaggies !_!

Hopefully TAA continues to mature and become better implemented like what which the Hardware Unboxed says because relying on a sparky little robot shite to figure things out seems like a waste of resources. Especially with it being limited to certain resolutions or tied to other performance sapping effects.
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Old Feb 18, 2019, 10:26 AM   #4
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Nvidia has a lot work to do to change the minds of the unimpressed. Personally still impressed by the raw potential of Dlss and will wait for the teething issues to improve with maturity and hard work to buy rtx.
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Old Feb 18, 2019, 12:03 PM   #5
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Nvidia has a lot work to do to change the minds of the unimpressed. Personally still impressed by the raw potential of Dlss and will wait for the teething issues to improve with maturity and hard work to buy rtx.
What's impressive about DLSS? I mean, when the 3000 comes out, specifically the ti version, will it require 8k to use it, as it will be to fast to use DLSS at 4k? As it will render the native 4k image faster than DLSS per Nvidia's explanation of why lower resolutions are not available on the 2080Ti.

Then you add in that just simply upscaling the image from a lower resolution is a better, cleaner, sharper image. In other words DLSS isn't really doing crap but seriously blurring the image.

Nvidia's best move going forward is to ditch DLSS and focus only on Ray Tracing/TAA. The other option is to put all their R&D into focusing on the tensor cores, to improve DLSS image quality to be superior to even be better than a simple 1440P image upscale, as well as getting tensor core speed improvements so the cards can do lower resolutions as well, which is where AA is needed most. If that is even possible. The only option there might only be to increase the number of tensor cores, which means costs will sky rocket. If they choose to do that, then that means that raw performance of the card will most likely not improve since no R&D will be going into the actual core of the GPU, and that will be a non starter for most people.

Now we know why DLSS can't be performed on a native resolution frame (4k native), and has to do it on a lower resolution frame (1440p) and be upscaled (to 4k). Because it is way to slow to do it at the native resolution and speed would be inferior to TAA giving us lower frame rates. DLSS is appearing to be just trickery. Kind of like where smoke and mirrors are used to get people to believe in magic..
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Old Feb 18, 2019, 01:11 PM   #6
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The potential of more welcomed performance and it does help with aliasing. The downsides are some rendering issues, softness or lack of detail, over-all content, and resolution flexibility. Nvidia may have to roll up their sleeves, work harder to convince gamers that Dlss and hardware tensor cores are worth it by solving the downsides. To convince the unconvinced and impress the unimpressed.
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Old Feb 18, 2019, 03:00 PM   #7
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Why in the world would anyone go through the expense of moving to 4k and want to deal with image softness and lack of detail? No way in hell.
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Old Feb 18, 2019, 03:13 PM   #8
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I agree, the softness is a negative or downside and why IQ investigations are just as important as performance metrics. So, what do you do? Give up? Or work harder to improve upon the experience? The potential or foundation is there to build upon to mature.
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Old Feb 18, 2019, 03:43 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SIrPauly View Post
I agree, the softness is a negative or downside and why IQ investigations are just as important as performance metrics. So, what do you do? Give up? Or work harder to improve upon the experience? The potential or foundation is there to build upon to mature.
Put more R&D into gpu power or game engine tech so we can use superior AA methods again instead of upscaling a lower resolution and using super computers to churn out a robots idea of what's good enough looking. Also have Nvidia and AMD work with devs to implement said anti aliasing techniques in their engines instead of wasting time and money on meme tech to sell 1 generation of cards.

This **** is lipstick on a pig and always will be because you are upscaling a lower resolution to a higher resolution and letting a machine **** with the image. There also isn't enough money in the world to get humans to validate this **** and tell the machine to try again.
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Old Feb 18, 2019, 04:26 PM   #10
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The rtx architecture offers compelling performance and flexible aa methods already, many with efficiency. Since Nvidia is moving toward raytracing, it makes sense to continue to invent efficient aa methods.
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Old Feb 18, 2019, 04:35 PM   #11
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DLSS needs to vastly improve in terms of sharpness in order to make it worth it in my opinion. The added blur is pretty severe, even if the performance increase can be quite large.

Id rather see the performance increase cut in half in order for a sharper image. Possibly upscaling from a higher resolution?
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Old Feb 18, 2019, 04:52 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SIrPauly View Post
The rtx architecture offers compelling performance and flexible aa methods already, many with efficiency. Since Nvidia is moving toward raytracing, it makes sense to continue to invent efficient aa methods.
Doesnt mean squat when game engines are only including blur fest aa like FXAA, TAA and DLSS and maybe some times SMAA. TXAA is all but gone it seems as well which was the previous nvidia meme AA that was supposed to be spiffy.

Far be it from me for partaking in most "triple A" titles but the one I see AA like that suck ass. You couple this with the fact that raytracing needs to be involved for dlss to be enabled as far as i know from watching videos and we're gonna have a bad time and **** adoption. More coupling like I've been saying when game engines start needing multiple blurry ass AA methods even at 4k to make the jaggies go away (ReEngine) I have to say we're boned an no amount of upscaled machine learned tom ****ery is gonna help clear things up.

As per the video I linked with all that power why not just upscale how HW Unboxed did jam on some proper old school AA methods using them meme cores and pipe that **** out to a upscaled 4k res. Would no doubt blow the dlss shots away.
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Old Feb 18, 2019, 05:07 PM   #13
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I don't know, softness isn't the end with flexible tools for the gamer. Nvidia offers FreeStyle that offers filters that improve IQ with setting sliders like detail and clarity with Battlefield V supported. These settings may help address the softness. I don't know.

FreeStyle settings: https://images.nvidia.com/geforce-co...al-evolved.jpg
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Old Feb 18, 2019, 05:21 PM   #14
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I think ya'll are forgetting the early days of FXAA and MLAA and how crappy they were. Give DLSS some time...Fine wine

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Old Feb 18, 2019, 05:31 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave View Post
I think ya'll are forgetting the early days of FXAA and MLAA and how crappy they were. Give DLSS some time...Fine wine

FXAA needs TAA on top to do any good and last anybody heard from MLAA was like 2011/12 with Deus Ex Human revolution and Dishonored >:E

MLAA was yet another meme AA and a console abortion one at that from what I remember.

The end all be all alpha and omega is deferred rendering was a mistake and we're doomed. 4080Ti's and 4x SSAA at 8k for all or bust.

Also hai Dave I miss seeing you around but I understand why you don't come here often
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Old Feb 18, 2019, 06:02 PM   #16
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After a little investigation, FreeStyle helps address some of the softness with Raytracing and Dlss. Nice to know. FreeStyle supports final fantasy but no metro support at this time.

Man, do I miss Chris Ray, we would be having an in-depth conversation about these subjects
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Old Feb 18, 2019, 06:24 PM   #17
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May of spoke too soon on metro not having FreeStyle support:


Quote:
Originally Posted by HReissM
I myself am playing with 4k+DLSS on (which blurs the image a bit) but I then added sharpening and the hdr filter. Looks amazing
https://steamcommunity.com/app/41202...5990050712779/
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Old Feb 18, 2019, 06:28 PM   #18
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There's no need to run DLSS in Battlefield V, the game already gets 60 - 80 fps with RTX Ultra at 1440p from that performance patch a few months ago.

But it does sound like Nvidia is half assing their training. There's no reason for 4k DLSS to look worse than native 1440p, since it's 1440p supersampled to 64x. Regular 4x or 8x RGSS or OGSS required a sharpening filter back in the day so maybe 64x SS needs a similar filter in place.
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Old Feb 18, 2019, 06:47 PM   #19
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Nvidia back in the day, 5xxx to 7xxx series offered a global image sharpening setting that was incredible for flexibility, would be so welcomed to have that global setting again.
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Old Feb 18, 2019, 08:40 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SIrPauly View Post
After a little investigation, FreeStyle helps address some of the softness with Raytracing and Dlss. Nice to know. FreeStyle supports final fantasy but no metro support at this time.

Man, do I miss Chris Ray, we would be having an in-depth conversation about these subjects
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Old Feb 18, 2019, 08:52 PM   #21
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Sadly, no pics just subjectice views from posts found on Reddit. There are enough rtx owners here we can work together on an investigation with Dlss and FreeStyle and share our findings. Just like the old days.
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Old Feb 18, 2019, 09:53 PM   #22
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I think ya'll are forgetting the early days of FXAA and MLAA and how crappy they were. Give DLSS some time...Fine wine

Excellent point.
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Old Feb 18, 2019, 09:56 PM   #23
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Excellent point.
You guinea pig gai do that thingy what which the nvidia focus group member says and test freestyle with DLSS >:E
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Old Feb 18, 2019, 10:16 PM   #24
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Personally was asked to be part of the Nvidia focus group by two members but said, no. Was asked to be part of Ati's beta program but said, no. Amd's Dave Baumann asked me to replace him at 3dfx' Voodoo Lounge before he moved to Beyond3d. My point? My views are my own, not a company.
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Old Feb 18, 2019, 10:24 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seyiji View Post
You guinea pig gai do that thingy what which the nvidia focus group member says and test freestyle with DLSS >:E
In English?
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Old Feb 18, 2019, 10:45 PM   #26
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You can't investigate Dlss and raytracing anway based on the ti only enables with 4k with battlefield v . Desire to see findings with dlss and sharpen and clarity filters with FreeStyle; to see if it helps with the softness.
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Old Feb 18, 2019, 10:52 PM   #27
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Maybe you can by changing the resolution to 4k Dsr.
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Old Feb 19, 2019, 12:46 AM   #28
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I just sent a personal message to Blaire from Germany on Dlss+FreeStyle. Blaire has 2080ti sli and a very keen eye when it comes to fidelity. Hopefully responds soon.
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Old Feb 19, 2019, 07:50 AM   #29
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I think we need to see solid evidence that DLSS actually does something good before proclaiming it's potential. This could be one of those situations where something may be a good idea on paper but it just doesn't pan out in practice.

A potential problem I see is that game scenes could be so varied that feeding a bunch of data into a super computer simply results in everything averaging out, so what the computer spits out ends up being essentially identical to dumb upscaling with anti-aliasing applied on top of it.

Or, put another way, it's not possible to actually optimize the algorithm because the game's scenes have too little commonality, so you're basically trying to optimize for everything at once and the approach just fails.
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Old Feb 19, 2019, 07:53 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave View Post
I think ya'll are forgetting the early days of FXAA and MLAA and how crappy they were. Give DLSS some time...Fine wine

When did FXAA stop being crappy?
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