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Old Oct 13, 2005, 06:10 PM   #1
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Murmillo
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Default Victory for the Sony PS3 looking more unlikely as support for Kutaragi drops?

The industry insider went on to say, “Kutaragi has said, ‘Please develop suitable software for PS3 - this software must not be of the same standard as PS2 software.’ Developing software for the PS3 from scratch will require an initial investment of at least 2 billion yen [US $17.6 million] [not including development costs]. There are not many software companies that can easily afford that kind of money.”


This seem to be the popular PS3 rumor.
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Old Oct 13, 2005, 07:12 PM   #2
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What is the current initial cost?
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Old Oct 13, 2005, 07:27 PM   #3
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about $2.50 worth of texture work to start..
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Old Oct 13, 2005, 07:34 PM   #4
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they should pay MS to make a good software suit for them
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Old Oct 13, 2005, 10:33 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamar
*Waits for _leech_ to come in and bash Microsoft...
TOO LATE!!

(note, I respect said person quite a bit... just find this funny)
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Old Oct 13, 2005, 11:11 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Night Fisher
TOO LATE!!

(note, I respect said person quite a bit... just find this funny)
Peter Moore said it, i just posted it
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Old Oct 14, 2005, 12:14 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Murmillo
The industry insider went on to say, “Kutaragi has said, ‘Please develop suitable software for PS3 - this software must not be of the same standard as PS2 software.’ Developing software for the PS3 from scratch will require an initial investment of at least 2 billion yen [US $17.6 million] [not including development costs]. There are not many software companies that can easily afford that kind of money.”


This seem to be the popular PS3 rumor.
I would have sworn I read that over a month ago. Again, I often generate news posts in my head.

Any, if there was such a 'mass desertion' from the PS3 and landing on the X360 (oh, the development costs are different because of higher-quality peanut butter...), there would be stronger support for the X360 in the Japanese dev community (I'm assuming it's Japanese, as they refer to budgets in yen). Now, there is more support for the X360 than the XBox, especially from smaller companies like Q Entertainment, but it's not the ideal level of support.

Can anyone comment on the X360/PS3 budgets anyway? Or is this based solely on Kuturagi wanting the best visuals/games of his system?
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Old Oct 14, 2005, 06:49 AM   #8
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I think the devs are up in arms because sony took too far a leap into the future. Cell CPU is great but pretty much everything needs to be rewritten to accomidate this CPU. in other words they can't use a generic tool library and just optomize per CPU like they have in the past. The cell is capible of some great stuff but when they dev houses have to rework there entire way of doing things it costs them money. IT won't be a concern for the big dev houses like EA, capcom, square, etc. But those are usaually the houses that put out for all consols. the PS3 is going to have good games regardless and downward compatibility is also going to be awesome, however, this time around I think MS has a better rounded console. there CPU is quite powerfull yet developer friendly, and microsoft being a software company has the software backbone to back it up. Sony i believe leave the most of the software portion up to the developers. not to mention MS has live LIVE. that is there killer feature. I don't think th ePS3 is dead in the water, I just think things will be more evenly matched this time around. I'm rooting for XBOX 360 this time around so far. Not a fanboy really but Lets face facts, graphics are going to be better on all next gen systems. all next gen systems are goign to have graphics better then we are seeing on the xbox now and the xbox continues to impress graphics wise. Sony dosn't have anything to compete with LIVE and if they are planning it they better get moving. Also Standard DVD is going to be a heck of alot cheaper to manufacture or produce then blueray OR hd-dvd, again in a year it will reduce manufacturing costs not only for MS but it's devs to. we have yet to hear anything else on unified shaders. in theory devs could mix and match utilizing all pipes all the time, handle physics through the GPU and take much of the burden off the CPU. also with the GPU also acting as the norhbridge it could seriously use memory more efficently. I think microsoft is holding back till the PS3 launch. when the PS3 launces I expect HALO 3 to come out and show off even more of the systems power. in the end I think the PS3 will be able to pull off a little bit better frame rates in the end because of CELL, but really it's going to be so close it's not even going to matter, and with double the dev costs MS should see more support. just my 2cents.
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Old Oct 14, 2005, 07:00 AM   #9
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wtf? so what about those quirky low budget 2d rpg games like disgaea on the ps2. they have to spend a minimum of $17million taking advantage of all the power of the ps3 just because kutaragi says so?
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Old Oct 14, 2005, 08:46 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vazel
wtf? so what about those quirky low budget 2d rpg games like disgaea on the ps2. they have to spend a minimum of $17million taking advantage of all the power of the ps3 just because kutaragi says so?
That's why I think the quote is a little 'wonky'. I would assume Kutaragi would want the best software for his system, but low-budget games still have some space in the PS3 world. In case of RPGs like Disgaea, I would imagine Sony would prefer high-resolution sprites (enough for 1080i/p) compared to PS2-resolution sprites.

A lot of this is wait and see. The PS2 was supposed to be the final nail in the coffin for 2D with its complex hardware and push for 3D graphics, but obviously 2D games are still being released.
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Old Oct 14, 2005, 11:26 AM   #11
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sony needs to have put in their own 2billion to create a comprehensive developement suite.
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Old Oct 14, 2005, 11:38 AM   #12
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Lets see here...17.6 million for development costs

Sell 10 million copies...say roughly $20 dollar profit per game...god damn, 200 million dollars??

Jeez...not worth that initial investmet!




Pick your posion, either an expensive PS3 or an expensive development cost. Sony has to make it up somewhere...
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Old Oct 14, 2005, 12:30 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkPretender
Lets see here...17.6 million for development costs

Sell 10 million copies...say roughly $20 dollar profit per game...god damn, 200 million dollars??

Jeez...not worth that initial investmet!


Pick your posion, either an expensive PS3 or an expensive development cost. Sony has to make it up somewhere...
I would agree with you if you could prove if a developer gets $20 profit per game sold, and also prove how often a game selles 10+ million copies?
If you can prove this, you might have an arguement, if not, you're just another mindless troll pulling out random numbers out of your butt.

But wait, you are a mindless troll, because if you did read the quote with clarity, you would see that Kutaragi states [rumor] the start up initial investmet would be 17.6 million NOT including the including development costs! How much $$ does go in development costs? Depends on the game.

One would imagine that a big game could easily be double that of the initial investmet. Developer rumors are that big budget games cost as much as your average movie to make. Which these days is around $25-$40 million.

If you are a little developer who can put 2 million in making a simple little game and return 5 million in profit, how easy does that 17.6 million initial investmet look to swallow now?

I'll admit I don't know much, and rely on the information posted by developers (and insiders), but I do know that for the past 10 years developers have been dreading the rising costs it takes in making a game. This is also why a lot more developers are taking the easy sure-deal road by making easier more port friendlier games.



Just as a question, if you think the 17.6 million investment and 200 million dollars profit was as easy as you make it out to be, then why is the issue of a huge cost for the PS3 such a huge issue/large source of rumors? Could it be its not as easy as you think it is?
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Old Oct 14, 2005, 12:50 PM   #14
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Developers don't make most of the profits... Most of the money stays at the stores. The publisher has to pretty much buy space at the major stores. Computer Games had a good article about this.
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Old Oct 14, 2005, 12:55 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamar
Developers don't make most of the profits... Most of the money stays at the stores. The publisher has to pretty much buy space at the major stores. Computer Games had a good article about this.
Was this a magazine? Remember the issue or time frame?
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Old Oct 16, 2005, 05:07 AM   #16
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Quote:
The industry insider went on to say, “Kutaragi has said, ‘Please develop suitable software for PS3 - this software must not be of the same standard as PS2 software.’ Developing software for the PS3 from scratch will require an initial investment of at least 2 billion yen [US $17.6 million] [not including development costs]. There are not many software companies that can easily afford that kind of money.”
Finaly some one admits the major flaw on next gen consoles. This applys to both MS and Sony. Writer for the article misunderstood what Kutaragi was implying. The PS2 is hard to program for, the PS3 is not. However to acheive the capabilities of the PS3, companies will have to spend top dollar (at least 17.6 Million) on development. Better graphics need more Artists, programers, high tech equipment, staff, longer delopment time to produce a decent game ( graphics wise). This is why many companies will stick to a tried and true formula, therefore all money can be used for graphics. Innovation in gameplay will not exist in MS and Sony's graphics utopia.

Look at it in this light. MS and Sony are going to loose 800+ dollars on each console manufactured. The only get $400 back on each sold. Games are intended to make up for that. Stores buy these games for 30 bucks, then sell it for $50. take the 30 bucks that the game gets, subtract manufacturing and licenseing fees can reduce the actual revenue to $10 per each game or even less. So if you get 1 million sales, you get only 10 million to pay a game that costs 7 to 15 milion to make. Big companies can aford this, and it works only if you use a tried and true formula. Since the game mechanics are the same as a very successfull game, you can save a lot of money on development and rake in the dough. This is the reason why the next gen systems will be littered with remakes, clones, and sequels of successful game franchises. Basicaly all the games you can play today, but with better graphics.
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