Nvidia RTX DLSS/Ray Tracing Discussion

[Nunz]

Bill you keep saying GSync is dead but I've literally showed you it isn't multiple times. You're wrong. Stop being wrong.

[bill dennison]

Originally Posted by Nunz

Bill you keep saying GSync is dead but I've literally showed you it isn't multiple times. You're wrong. Stop being wrong.

it's just freesync now for the most part few screens add the chip now

[Sound_Card]

Originally Posted by demo

If you say so:

Originally Posted by SIrPauly

Much better with Taa:

The poetry writes itself.

We will be zooming in 500% when FSR 2 comes out.

[Sound_Card]

Originally Posted by SIrPauly

What that proved to me is if there are noticeable artifacts or limitations with the AA, Fsr may make things worse because of the sharpening.

the sharpening filter is probably a tad over aggressive. I do wonder if they can bring back MLAA.

[Exposed]

That's the first time I've heard them admit DLSS 2.0 does in fact can provide a better than native image quality.

Also, they find like alot of others have that Necromunda is way oversharpened with FSR. But some people like oversharpening artifacts I suppose.

[Megaman]

471.41 WHQL drivers adds support for Red Dead Redemption if you want to retry the DLSS.

[demo]

Originally Posted by Sound_Card

The poetry writes itself.

We will be zooming in 500% when FSR 2 comes out.

Fair play, it does look a lot better with TAA but still has issues. It wasn't zoomed in 500% either.

[SubCog]

Originally Posted by demo

If you say so:

Yup. DLSS is clearly superior. It's offering a smoother image, with less shimmering, especially on elements like hair, fabric, etc.

Although FSR is surprisingly good-enough, especially for a 1.0 release.

I think they both look amazing, especially in motion, and I think people have to really pixel-peep to really tell the difference. I doubt most people could tell any difference at all, unless you were zoom way in and point out specific elements.

[Trunks0]

Originally Posted by Exposed

That's the first time I've heard them admit DLSS 2.0 does in fact can provide a better than native image quality.

Also, they find like alot of others have that Necromunda is way oversharpened with FSR. But some people like oversharpening artifacts I suppose.

That's because it's not always the case 100% of the time. There are situation's where it does. Term is getting loaded, because it doesn't just blanket provide 100% better than native.

[Nagorak]

So, just some short thoughts on my first experience with Ray Tracing and DLSS in Control.

Starting with ray tracing, the game did look moderately better with ray tracing on, however the performance hit was extreme. I went back and forth, but ultimately decided to run with ray tracing since performance seemed borderline OK at 1440P with DLSS. That being said, I am glad I waited to play any ray traced games until I had a 3080 because if I had anything less I would have just disabled it based on the performance hit. Doing some comparisons here and there in the game, while moderately better with ray tracing on, I didn't feel like the overall experience would be that different if you played with ray tracing off.

As for DLSS, after all the hype I was pretty underwhelmed. Even running the newest DLSS DLL from Techpowerup, it was immediately clear to me that the image was much softer, with text in particular being noticeably more blurry. Worse than that when used with ray tracing DLSS introduced a weird shifting static pattern on ray traced surfaces, which was quite annoying. I didn't really notice any ghosting issues outside of those already present from my monitor's dark level overshoot when running around 100 Hz.

Ultimately I did run with DLSS enabled since I decided it was "good enough" and I could just ignore the artifacts. But really, all the arguing here about how great DLSS is vs FSR, comes across as a bit laughable to me based on the implementation in Control. It was not anywhere near native quality.

Maybe my opinion will change after playing more games, but at this point, my feelings are: 1) I'd never even think of using DLSS unless I was desperate for more performance. 2) The real solution to the large ray tracing performance hit is the cards need more (a lot more) ray tracing units, not an upsampling technique to try to cover up the deficit. 3) Long term I think ray tracing has potential, once the hardware finally catches up, but upscaling I am less convinced about.

[demo]

Both DLSS and FSR seem to shine at higher resolutions where they have more information to work with. At 1440p you're upscaling from either 960p (quality) or 720p (performance). With that in mind, it's doing a pretty good job.

I have Control but never bothered to install it so can't comment on how it compares to other games.

As for Raytracing, reflections are a nice addition but I feel Global Illumination is where it's at. Metro EE, Cyberpunk, and Quake2 support this.

GI in Metro EE:

[Nagorak]

Yeah, I can see DLSS might be more impressive at higher resolution where it has more data to work with. Maybe the new Ultra Quality setting will also help at 1440P. Even 960P clearly wasn't quite enough to work with, and any of the lower settings were just terrible.

I did end up playing with DLSS so I don't want to make it out like it was unusable. I decided the reduction in image quality was worth the extra 20-30 FPS, but it definitely was a trade off. I guess I was just expecting more considering all of the hype around it.

I'll probably move on to Metro: Exodus as one of my next games, so we'll see how it fares there.

Outside of consideration of graphics, Control was a pretty good game, so if you haven't played I recommend giving it a shot.

[demo]

This is very noticeable in Doom Eternal with DLSS. RT reflections are half the DLSS render res, not output res. For example if you run 4k with DLSS at a render res of 1440p, RT reflections are at 720p. Combined with RT noise the low resolution is very noticeable. Extremely shimmery and full of artefacts.

In Doom Eternal you can at least adjust reflection resolution via console command.

[Trunks0]

About sums it up imho.

[KAC]

So which is better. I haven’t followed DLSS vs. FSR debates and have no intention of watching long videos by Gamers Nexus or some crap.

[Trunks0]

Originally Posted by KAC

So which is better. I haven’t followed DLSS vs. FSR debates and have no intention of watching long videos by Gamers Nexus or some crap.

DLSS 2.0.

DLSS 2.0 can use it's pre-trained generalized AI to ID and re-construct distant object from the temporal data(that would otherwise just be an aliased mess). Plus it also uses the AI to correct that same Temporal info for the TAA. Leading to one of the best looking versions of TAA we are likely to see. Downside? It can loose fine details and streak particle details in some games. So depending on the game and what you want framerate wise, it's worth it.

FSR is simpler. It's a good scaler and it can look close to the native image. But it doesn't really enhance or try to reconstruct things like the aliased parts of the image. So for instance if a game has bad AA, FSR isn't going to help like DLSS 2.0 will.

Sort of a twist though... people are now figuring out how to use FSR even in games without FSR support and without having to mod the games. Letting you use FSR in more places if you needed that frame rate boost.

[SirBaron]

The best part of DLSS is that it can make games with heavy Shader aliasing look very clean.

Games like Mass Effect for example would benefit hugely from it just for that.

[demo]

Certainly does. Also have a look at how well it cleans up the shimmering tall grass compared to native+TAA.

[Trunks0]

It also introduces streaking/trails to particles (those rising rock particles and birds are not supposed to have trails), removes particles detail entirely in a scene or two, can over blur water at lower resolutions and adds what looks like macro blocking in the grey areas of the sky and heavy depth blurs when still and ... that about it. You can also fix most/all? of that by swapping out the DLSS 2.0 version built in with a newer DLSS 2.X dll

[KAC]

Originally Posted by Trunks0

DLSS 2.0.

DLSS 2.0 can use it's pre-trained generalized AI to ID and re-construct distant object from the temporal data(that would otherwise just be an aliased mess). Plus it also uses the AI to correct that same Temporal info for the TAA. Leading to one of the best looking versions of TAA we are likely to see. Downside? It can loose fine details and streak particle details in some games. So depending on the game and what you want framerate wise, it's worth it.

FSR is simpler. It's a good scaler and it can look close to the native image. But it doesn't really enhance or try to reconstruct things like the aliased parts of the image. So for instance if a game has bad AA, FSR isn't going to help like DLSS 2.0 will.

Sort of a twist though... people are now figuring out how to use FSR even in games without FSR support and without having to mod the games. Letting you use FSR in more places if you needed that frame rate boost.

Thanks

[KAC]

Originally Posted by SIrPauly

The 2.2.6 Dll cleans that up. Really looks nice.

Link to download and how do I install this?

[KAC]

Originally Posted by SIrPauly

Kac,


Download here from TechPowerUp and look for the 2.2.6 DLL.

https://www.techpowerup.com/download/nvidia-dlss-dll/

If you use Steam, go to Program Files(X86)> Steam > steamapps > common > Death Stranding and look for the file nvngx_dlss.dll and back up the older version and replace with 2.2.6.

Many thanks

[Exposed]

Originally Posted by KAC

Link to download and how do I install this?

There you go:
https://bit.ly/3CeQ4t9

[acroig]

https://www.techradar.com/amp/news/n...l-for-rtx-gpus

[Trunks0]

NICE! This is kinda what we where hoping they would do. This will likely essentially be as good as TAA is ever going to get. Awesome, can't wait to see it

[demo]

Sounds great. Would be nice to have a downsampled version too, IE- opposite of DLSS, for DLAA+SSAA.

[jimjobob]

Originally Posted by demo

Sounds great. Would be nice to have a downsampled version too, IE- opposite of DLSS, for DLAA+SSAA.

Most games these days have negative resolution scaling built in.

[acroig]

https://www.pcgamer.com/dlss-is-nvid...t-ray-tracing/

"As much as AMD and Intel might want to suggest otherwise, I struggle to believe that either FSR or XeSS would have come about without DLSS."

[acroig]

https://wccftech.com/nvidia-invites-...supercomputer/

[NIGELG]

I started AMID EVIL. It has nice Ray Tracing effects for a pixelated looking game.

DLSS enables smooth edges and fast gameplay.