Nvidia RTX DLSS/Ray Tracing Discussion - Page 31

Sound_Card · Jul 11, 2021, 07:31 PM

the image on the left is garbage. But the image on the right has an overly unrealistic reflection.

Sound_Card · Jul 11, 2021, 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SIrPauly

One can tweak to your subjective taste.

like by pressing the 'off' button.

**Trunks0** · Jul 11, 2021, 08:56 PM

I love it when game engines let you tweak like that. Just pull down the console and flip switches

Sound_Card · Jul 12, 2021, 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SIrPauly

Sure!

It's just nice to know one can add more Ray Tracing detail and on more surfaces, if one desires it -- considering how efficient this engine is.

That would be like putting lipstick on a pig though based on those pictures. Lipstick is also subjective because half of these games are so so looking with Ray tracing. Though to be fair, Doom is pretty nice with RT.

**Exposed** · Jul 12, 2021, 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sound_Card

That would be like putting lipstick on a pig though based on those pictures. Lipstick is also subjective because half of these games are so so looking with Ray tracing. Though to be fair, Doom is pretty nice with RT.

If you think adding ray tracing is "so so" for half these games then I wonder what games you've been playing. Makes a big difference for example in Watch Dogs Legion (reflections only, makes a big visual difference walking through the streets), Metro Exodus (everything looks better since the last RTX update).

Sound_Card · Jul 12, 2021, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Exposed

If you think adding ray tracing is "so so" for half these games then I wonder what games you've been playing. Makes a big difference for example in Watch Dogs Legion (reflections only, makes a big visual difference walking through the streets), Metro Exodus (everything looks better since the last RTX update).

yah so so. Sometimes it looks overly done. Sometimes it looks like a cheap HDR effect. Sometimes it looks just right. I'm not that drunk off the marketing buzz. The Nvidia shield on my post gives me protection.

Sound_Card · Jul 12, 2021, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SIrPauly

That's a fair view, depends how it is implemented and subjective tastes differ. How many would utilize Ray Tracing without Dlss?

I probably would not use Ray Tracing on any form of FSR(DLSS) other than max setting 4k. This is a weird prelude to what is going to come in less than 10 years time (maybe 5), where we will have advanced FSR tech that would allow for real time bidirectional tracing.

Ray tracing in its current form is not impressive. No where near enough to buy graphics cards for how much they cost right now.

OverclockN' · Jul 12, 2021, 04:09 PM

I don't know why anyone would buy a card right now just for Ray Tracing. Or buying one just for DLSS. There aren't enough games that support it. I mean...if someone wants to play with the latest/greatest features, then yeah...I get that.

**Exposed** · Jul 12, 2021, 05:03 PM

Well, you can't buy a new card now WITHOUT ray tracing support in hardware, so it's a moot point. All new cards have them from low end to high end. It would be your decision to turn it on or not.

**Trunks0** · Jul 12, 2021, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Exposed

Well, you can't buy a new card now WITHOUT ray tracing support in hardware, so it's a moot point. All new cards have them from low end to high end. It would be your decision to turn it on or not.

And they should or else the tech won't catch on. It's the obvious next place to go. Even if it's only to drive effects for now in what is mostly still rasterization.

**Exposed** · Jul 12, 2021, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trunks0

And they should or else the tech won't catch on. It's the obvious next place to go. Even if it's only to drive effects for now in what is mostly still rasterization.

Exactly. It's basically just the next level of eye candy, so if you're the type that likes to crank up the detail settings then ray tracing is just like any other graphic option to turn on/crank up. It's standard hardware support on basically anything you can buy now be it AMD or Nvidia.

Ray tracing reminds me alot of pixel shading / bumpmapping back in the day. The early games supported the appropriate hardware like the Geforce / Savage 3D etc and those games looked amazing with it (think Giants Citizen Kabuto, Evolve, etc..) It wasn't much games at first but it eventually caught on. Same thing is happening now with ray tracing. The difference now though is that alot of AAA games support ray tracing or will support it on release, so that will help drive the move towards wider adoption in the long run.

**acroig** · Jul 12, 2021, 08:15 PM

Great points Exposed.

**Exposed** · Jul 13, 2021, 07:22 AM

Great points indeed.

**acroig** · Jul 13, 2021, 07:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Exposed

Great points indeed.

Your points are so big.....

**acroig** · Jul 13, 2021, 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SIrPauly

Dlss update for Red Redemption 2 is out.

Nice....

**Nunz** · Jul 17, 2021, 10:16 AM

Necromunda is the finest showing of FSR I've seen. The images are nearly indistinguishable aside from very small differences in shading that would not be noticeable during real gameplay.

If that's what we'll see standard from FSR, then that is excellent.

demo · Jul 17, 2021, 10:59 AM

It's good but there are minor sharpening artefacts

Sound_Card · Jul 17, 2021, 12:37 PM

Nvidia:
1080p DLSS vs FSR -

1440p DLSS vs FSR -

4K DLSS vs FSR -

**Exposed** · Jul 18, 2021, 12:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sound_Card

Nvidia:
1080p DLSS vs FSR -

1440p DLSS vs FSR -

4K DLSS vs FSR -

They must be screaming at the sharpening artifacts with FSR, because that's what it is...1600p upscaled plus sharpening.

DLSS still retains better detail at 4k than FSR. There's literally a ton of resources on this.

demo · Jul 18, 2021, 01:45 AM

I noticed even at 4K, FSR has some broken or missing detail like the mesh on her boobs in the video. With DLSS it looks like super sampled fishnet

but with FSR there are whole chunks of fishnet missing and all pixelated. Youtube compression hides it a bit, I imagine it would be more noticeable in real time. Aside from that there are other sharpening artefacts like faint outlines and shimmering, but overall it's pretty minor and probably looks fine on TV at those sort of viewing distances.

The great thing about these techniques is that 4k+ is becoming a reality for everyone going forward.

**SirBaron** · Jul 18, 2021, 03:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sound_Card

Nvidia:
1080p DLSS vs FSR -

1440p DLSS vs FSR -

4K DLSS vs FSR -

"I don't care if I don't get unbanned on Rage3D I don't have time or care anymore for silly GPU Wars."

Sound_Card · Jul 18, 2021, 07:31 AM

Well I am unbanned now, and it's a joke post mate. You can quit following me around (and talking about me) like my one of my ex's. : )

As for the other comments, I don't see fish boobs. Everything looks nearly identical besides DLSS being more faded and FSR being more sharp. Probably could be easily adjusted in future FSR upates.

demo · Jul 18, 2021, 08:07 AM

It's like FSR is missing information where as DLSS has super sampled and reconstructed it. Along with shimmering it's all through the video but youtube compression hides it well.

demo · Jul 18, 2021, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SIrPauly

Nvidia DLSS vs AMD FSR (SMAA) // Graphics & Performance Comparison

https://youtu.be/8ML1jyUrhfc

You can tell the stark differences when zoomed in.

The artifacts or instability will shimmer while in motion.

Talk about shimmery. Look at the hair comparison at 0:42 and foliage at 2:42.

Another thing that bothers me is the over sharpening artefacts around objects, like a faint white line. Once you see it you cannot un-see it. Does AMD offer a way to adjust sharpening filter?

Sound_Card · Jul 18, 2021, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SIrPauly

Nvidia DLSS vs AMD FSR (SMAA) // Graphics & Performance Comparison

https://youtu.be/8ML1jyUrhfc

You can tell the stark differences when zoomed in.

The artifacts or instability will shimmer while in motion.

That's not an FSR issue, that's a SMAA issue.

demo · Jul 18, 2021, 10:44 AM

If you say so:

Mangler · Jul 18, 2021, 11:17 AM

Is TAA+FSR not an option in avengers?

Going by the hair/beard in the native 4k+smaa sections, avengers is probably one of those games that relies on taa to render those effects properly, so using SMAA will always look wrong.

NIGELG · Jul 18, 2021, 05:38 PM

DLSS could be in trouble like so much of Nvidia's proprietary stuff that came before it.

I think the fact that FSR could work on ALL modern cards with not too much visual difference will be the strong point in it's potential adoption especially if AMD could improve it further.

Let's see how it plays out.

**Exposed** · Jul 18, 2021, 09:18 PM

DLSS will only be in trouble if AMD implements a similar AI restructuring approach. There's too many limitations and IQ drawbacks from just a spatial upscaler and sharpening function to claim it's going to best DLSS in the long term, while it still falls behind in IQ. Doesn't matter if it can work on any hardware, there's only so much a spatial upscaler can do and there's not going to be a future update that suddenly puts it on par with DLSS. AI image upscaling has proven its worth well outside the game segment and is only natural it will follow into gaming as well. So far Nvidia is the only one implementing this technology but that I believe will change in the next 3-5 years. Consoles won't get significantly faster and more demanding games will require better solutions to keep up.

bill dennison · Jul 19, 2021, 01:17 AM

DLSS is dead .

just like G-Sync and like almost every other nvidia proprietary technology they have come up with
DLSS is even worse as it only works on RTX card that are still a minority in NV's own user base the 2000's cost too much for most and the 3000's are too hard to get and bots killed the better pricing

even if DLSS is a little better than Fsr
Fsr will be baked in at the console level before the games are ported to PC and game dev's hate extra work or SLI/CFX would still work (two 3080's in SLI working well would almost eliminate the need for DLSS also )

i would much more have good working SLI/CFX than DLSS or Fsr

Jul 11, 2021, 07:31 PM	#901	Advertisement (Guests Only) Login or Register to remove this ad
Sound_Card Banned Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Constantinople Posts: 14,631	the image on the left is garbage. But the image on the right has an overly unrealistic reflection.

Jul 11, 2021, 08:56 PM	#903
Trunks0 Keeping an open mind Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Vancouver, B.C., Canada Posts: 21,405	I love it when game engines let you tweak like that. Just pull down the console and flip switches __________________ -Trunks0 not speaking for all and if I am wrong I never said it. (plz note that is meant as a joke) System: Asus TUF Gaming X570-Pro - AMD Ryzen 7 5800x - Noctua NH-D15S chromax.Black - 32gb of G.Skill Trident Z NEO - Asus DRW-24F1ST DVD±RW - Samsung 850 Evo 250Gib - 4TiB Seagate - XFX MERC 308 Radeon RX 6600XT - Creative AE-5 Plus - Windows 10 64-bit

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Jul 12, 2021, 04:09 PM	#908
OverclockN' Radeon Arctic Islands Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Iowa Posts: 24,729	I don't know why anyone would buy a card right now just for Ray Tracing. Or buying one just for DLSS. There aren't enough games that support it. I mean...if someone wants to play with the latest/greatest features, then yeah...I get that. __________________

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Jul 12, 2021, 05:03 PM	#909
Exposed ESB Sports Bookie Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Orlando, FL Posts: 7,263	Well, you can't buy a new card now WITHOUT ray tracing support in hardware, so it's a moot point. All new cards have them from low end to high end. It would be your decision to turn it on or not.

Jul 12, 2021, 08:15 PM	#912
acroig Troll SMod Join Date: May 2004 Location: Troll Master of Manchesville Posts: 58,213	Great points Exposed.

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Jul 13, 2021, 07:22 AM	#913
Exposed ESB Sports Bookie Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Orlando, FL Posts: 7,263	Great points indeed.

Jul 17, 2021, 10:59 AM	#917
demo space cadet Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Melbourne Posts: 28,155	It's good but there are minor sharpening artefacts __________________ ____________________

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Jul 17, 2021, 12:37 PM	#918
Sound_Card Banned Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Constantinople Posts: 14,631	Nvidia: 1080p DLSS vs FSR - 1440p DLSS vs FSR - 4K DLSS vs FSR -

Jul 18, 2021, 01:45 AM	#920
demo space cadet Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Melbourne Posts: 28,155	I noticed even at 4K, FSR has some broken or missing detail like the mesh on her boobs in the video. With DLSS it looks like super sampled fishnet but with FSR there are whole chunks of fishnet missing and all pixelated. Youtube compression hides it a bit, I imagine it would be more noticeable in real time. Aside from that there are other sharpening artefacts like faint outlines and shimmering, but overall it's pretty minor and probably looks fine on TV at those sort of viewing distances. The great thing about these techniques is that 4k+ is becoming a reality for everyone going forward. __________________ ____________________

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Jul 18, 2021, 07:31 AM	#922
Sound_Card Banned Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Constantinople Posts: 14,631	Well I am unbanned now, and it's a joke post mate. You can quit following me around (and talking about me) like my one of my ex's. : ) As for the other comments, I don't see fish boobs. Everything looks nearly identical besides DLSS being more faded and FSR being more sharp. Probably could be easily adjusted in future FSR upates.

Jul 18, 2021, 08:07 AM	#923
demo space cadet Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Melbourne Posts: 28,155	It's like FSR is missing information where as DLSS has super sampled and reconstructed it. Along with shimmering it's all through the video but youtube compression hides it well. __________________ ____________________

Jul 18, 2021, 10:44 AM	#926
demo space cadet Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Melbourne Posts: 28,155	If you say so: __________________ ____________________

Jul 18, 2021, 11:17 AM	#927
Mangler PC Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 21,681	Is TAA+FSR not an option in avengers? Going by the hair/beard in the native 4k+smaa sections, avengers is probably one of those games that relies on taa to render those effects properly, so using SMAA will always look wrong.

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Jul 18, 2021, 05:38 PM	#928
NIGELG Fire of Unknown Origin Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Trinidad Posts: 2,428	DLSS could be in trouble like so much of Nvidia's proprietary stuff that came before it. I think the fact that FSR could work on ALL modern cards with not too much visual difference will be the strong point in it's potential adoption especially if AMD could improve it further. Let's see how it plays out. __________________ Intel 10600K @5.0GHz,Nvidia RTX 3070(ZOTAC Twin Edge),MSI MPG 490 Gaming Edge, Corsair Vengeance 16GB 3200MHZ,LG 27GL850-B.

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Jul 18, 2021, 09:18 PM	#929
Exposed ESB Sports Bookie Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Orlando, FL Posts: 7,263	DLSS will only be in trouble if AMD implements a similar AI restructuring approach. There's too many limitations and IQ drawbacks from just a spatial upscaler and sharpening function to claim it's going to best DLSS in the long term, while it still falls behind in IQ. Doesn't matter if it can work on any hardware, there's only so much a spatial upscaler can do and there's not going to be a future update that suddenly puts it on par with DLSS. AI image upscaling has proven its worth well outside the game segment and is only natural it will follow into gaming as well. So far Nvidia is the only one implementing this technology but that I believe will change in the next 3-5 years. Consoles won't get significantly faster and more demanding games will require better solutions to keep up.

Jul 19, 2021, 01:17 AM	#930
bill dennison Rage3D Spammer Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: phoenix Posts: 25,474	DLSS is dead . just like G-Sync and like almost every other nvidia proprietary technology they have come up with DLSS is even worse as it only works on RTX card that are still a minority in NV's own user base the 2000's cost too much for most and the 3000's are too hard to get and bots killed the better pricing even if DLSS is a little better than Fsr Fsr will be baked in at the console level before the games are ported to PC and game dev's hate extra work or SLI/CFX would still work (two 3080's in SLI working well would almost eliminate the need for DLSS also ) i would much more have good working SLI/CFX than DLSS or Fsr

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