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Other Graphics Cards and 3D Technologies Discussion forum for any graphics hardware not provided by AMD/ATI. Also place to discuss 3D technologies such as 3D Stereo, PhysX and other interesting developments/rumours in the 3D industry.

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Old Sep 22, 2022, 08:13 AM   #1351
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Originally Posted by Nunz View Post
PCB length is shorter afaik, it's the height that's bigger. The cooler design is a different story; seems like AIBs are using a lot of the 3000 series designs because the 4080/4090 design is very, very close to 3080/3090 PCB with slight changes.
Yeah, I had read Ada GPU is pin compatible to 3000 series so boards like 3090Ti and 3080Ti were Ada compatible.
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Old Sep 22, 2022, 09:25 AM   #1352
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already are they are all mining cards

i think a lot more gamers than they think will be keeping their 3000 cards and skipping the 4000's
A bunch of people who don't upgrade very often decided to upgrade last time because of the lockdowns. The 4000 series won't sell as well as the 3000 series even if mining was going strong. I'm sure Nvidia is prepared for a loss. The stock market loss already shows that the average investor is aware that it's coming. Used market might see some movement but that's the way these things go. They couldn't possibly sustain that level of sales annually.
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Old Sep 22, 2022, 09:36 AM   #1353
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Old Sep 22, 2022, 09:47 AM   #1354
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Perf per dollar is a worse comparison imo. For 1080ti like perf you are paying 1080ti dollars 5 years later...
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Old Sep 22, 2022, 09:54 AM   #1355
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Old Sep 22, 2022, 10:05 AM   #1356
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We're quickly moving to a GPU "rental" model. The last step is 5G rollout to the last mile customer base.
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Old Sep 22, 2022, 10:20 AM   #1357
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Thanks DK!
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Old Sep 22, 2022, 11:13 AM   #1358
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i hope AMD doesn't get those coolers
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Old Sep 22, 2022, 11:23 AM   #1359
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It was kind of funny seeing those tiny inno3d cards with pre-installed waterblocks vs the humongous Air-cooled cards.

And jebus, you know things have gone too far when companies ships their cards with anti-sag brackets that can support weights up to 5 KG, or with notes like these cards will work just fine with our 1200W psu.
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Old Sep 22, 2022, 11:28 AM   #1360
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scram the reactors

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Old Sep 22, 2022, 12:01 PM   #1361
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Yeah, I'm never spending $900 on a video card. I suspect they're leaving out the 4070 and 4060 for now so that they can bring them out at a more reasonable price point once they sell out their 30xx stock.


If not, maybe my next card will be AMD. Hopefully with some coolers that don't sound like a jet engine. That was the main reason I didn't do it last time.
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Old Sep 22, 2022, 12:14 PM   #1362
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I'm still curious about DLSS 3.0, I could see that frame smoothing tech working in games like Flight Simulator, but can it really handle games with rapid camera movement?
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Old Sep 22, 2022, 12:22 PM   #1363
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I'm still curious about DLSS 3.0, I could see that frame smoothing tech working in games like Flight Simulator, but can it really handle games with rapid camera movement?
if you are getting two of every frame isn't that going to add lag and delay in a lot of games ?

so it will be like seeing every frame twice as long just for fooling your frame counter

frame counter says you are at 80 FPS but the GPU is only generating 40 new frames
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Old Sep 22, 2022, 12:33 PM   #1364
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That's not how that works bill lol

Fast moving games should have any additional latency negated by NV REFLEX, but who knows. Seems like we don't know all the facts about DLSS3.0 yet, and the slides we were shown did not seem to give the full picture.

DLSS2.x works fantastic right now. I can't see them introducing a different method that causes latency spikes. It would make DLSS useless.
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Old Sep 22, 2022, 12:39 PM   #1365
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That's not how that works bill lol

Fast moving games should have any additional latency negated by NV REFLEX, but who knows. Seems like we don't know all the facts about DLSS3.0 yet, and the slides we were shown did not seem to give the full picture.

DLSS2.x works fantastic right now. I can't see them introducing a different method that causes latency spikes. It would make DLSS useless.
you hope

i'll wait for full reviews
but i'm sure there will be drama in the first few months
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Old Sep 22, 2022, 01:13 PM   #1366
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That is a good illustration, thanks. I understand Nvidia's point about not to cannibalize the excessive Ampere inventories but curious to see how the market will react.
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Old Sep 22, 2022, 01:20 PM   #1367
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I'm still curious about DLSS 3.0, I could see that frame smoothing tech working in games like Flight Simulator, but can it really handle games with rapid camera movement?
There was one site that analyzed Spiderman with it and saw a lot of image issues. Little blurs and odd shapes but maybe its invisible to the naked eye if its on just the ai frames. We'll see with reviews could be just early drivers.
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Old Sep 22, 2022, 01:20 PM   #1368
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That is a good illustration, thanks. I understand Nvidia's point about not to cannibalize the excessive Ampere inventories but curious to see how the market will react.
makes even the 2000's look cheap
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Old Sep 22, 2022, 01:23 PM   #1369
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There was one site that analyzed Spiderman with it and saw a lot of image issues. Little blurs and odd shapes but maybe its invisible to the naked eye if its on just the ai frames. We'll see with reviews could be just early drivers.
OR maybe not at lower 4k w/RT frame rates
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Old Sep 22, 2022, 01:23 PM   #1370
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Bill,

Also curious to see how the market reacts to higher prices without the crypto demand.
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Old Sep 22, 2022, 01:40 PM   #1371
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They seem less focused on selling the new stuff vs. clearing the channel of ampere overstock. You want a new expensive one it'll be there but bargains not gonna be out there for a while.
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Old Sep 22, 2022, 01:46 PM   #1372
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They seem less focused on selling the new stuff vs. clearing the channel of ampere overstock. You want a new expensive one it'll be there but bargains not gonna be out there for a while.
the fun crap will hit the fan is if AMD comes out with a card as fast or faster than a 4090 and cheaper than a 4080 16gb
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Old Sep 22, 2022, 01:53 PM   #1373
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I think they will end up between a 4080 16GB and 4090.. but the 4090 will be quite a bit faster than anything else. I don't know about power since they're on a larger node.
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Old Sep 22, 2022, 01:57 PM   #1374
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the fun crap will hit the fan is if AMD comes out with a card as fast or faster than a 4090 and cheaper than a 4080 16gb


They didn't have much competition when Nvidia launched Turing when they had excessive Pascal inventories but AMD has improved very much so and may have a real opportunity here with this Ada launch.
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Old Sep 22, 2022, 02:26 PM   #1375
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if im AMD

7900xt 1299 trades blows with 4090
7800xt 899 trades blows with 4080 16gig
7800 649 trades blows with 4080 12gig

obviously AMD will lose once DLSS3.0 is factored in even in cases wheere FSR2.0 and dlss are both implemented. Will likely be comparable (within 10%) of current RT but fall behind of new "enhanced RT" that NV will be pushing now.

If AMD can do that they can get much needed mindshare and some marketshare.
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Old Sep 22, 2022, 02:28 PM   #1376
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I would consider AMD if they match the 4090 @ $1299.
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Old Sep 22, 2022, 02:32 PM   #1377
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Originally Posted by bill dennison View Post
the fun crap will hit the fan is if AMD comes out with a card as fast or faster than a 4090 and cheaper than a 4080 16gb
I like your positive attitude.

Wishful thinking though.
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Old Sep 22, 2022, 02:37 PM   #1378
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I think they will end up between a 4080 16GB and 4090.. but the 4090 will be quite a bit faster than anything else. I don't know about power since they're on a larger node.
maybe but NV's node is more expensive and that die size will have lower yields
i think if they move up the RX 7050 xt with two GCD's it could be top dog

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NVIDIA RTX 4090 Doesn't Max-Out AD102, Ample Room Left for Future RTX 4090 Ti
https://www.techpowerup.com/299091/n...re-rtx-4090-ti

or maybe they got room above the 4090 for a 4080 ti and a 4090 ti
if i remember right they topped a titan with a x080 ti and a new titan before

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Old Sep 22, 2022, 02:43 PM   #1379
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nVidia NVIDIA Adds AI Frame Generation Capability to Video Encoding and Decoding

This functionality will only be supported by the GeForce RTX 40 Series.

The defining feature of DLSS 3 is AI frame-generation, the ability of NVIDIA GeForce RTX 40-series "Ada" GPUs to predict the next frame to one that's rendered by the GPU, and generate the frame without any involvement of the graphics rendering pipeline. NVIDIA is taking this concept to video encoding, too, letting you increase the frame-rate of your videos through the "magic" of frame generation. NVIDIA Ada GPUs' Optical Flow Accelerator (NVOFA) component can apply the same Optical Flow logic for videos as it does for graphics rendering, predict the next frame, and increase frame-rate through AI generation of that frame. NVIDIA refers to this as Engine-assisted Frame-rate Up Conversion (FRUC).

There's more to FRUC than the "smooth motion" features your TV comes with; NVENC compares two real frames from a video, determines motion vectors, and sets up an optical flow stage, so the generated frames that are interpolated with real frames are accurate. NVIDIA will be releasing FRUC as a library, so it can be integrated with popular content-creation and media-consumption applications on NVIDIA Ada GPUs. It allows people with Ada to create higher frame-rate videos; as well as those with Ada GPUs to consume media at higher frame-rates.


Sources: techPowerUp, NVIDIA
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Old Sep 22, 2022, 03:14 PM   #1380
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I have a feeling that's the real target of DLSS 3... content creators. Imagine having to render only 1/3 of the frames for Game of Thrones and let the AI do an ok job at the other two that are in between time-intensive raytraced frames. HUGE productivity boost and cost savings. If it's every other frame, or you render 3/4s of the frames and let the AI fill in the 4th, it's still big.

If it happens to help gamers, bonus.
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