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Old Aug 30, 2022, 12:35 AM   #121
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It looks to me that the 12900KS is about 20% faster than the 5950X and AMD is claiming 30% performance advantage over the 5950X with it's new 7950X. So Intel has to improve gaming performance 10% beyond the 12900Ks with raptor lake to match the 7950X. If they have a 5% IPC improvement combined with a 300Mhz clock increase like it is rumored then I think it's going to be close.

Concerning multithreading, I've seen leaked benchmarks from Intel that show impressive gains that eek out past the 7950X by a little but these are benchmarks that favor Intel. It looks to me that AMD is going to outperform Intel when it comes to blender and V-ray If last gen comparisons are anything to go by which seems likely.

I don't see how Intel can compete when it comes to efficiency even with the E-cores. They have double the E-cores and the inefficient P cores going up against 16 very efficient P cores from AMD and multithread performance doesn't look to favor them by much if any.

Price could play a factor but with AMD clamping down at $700 for the 7950X it doesn't leave alot of room for Intel to play with unless they want to take major losses to profit.

I have no doubt that Intel will push past AMD in gaming at any cost to efficiency but even that advantage may disappear towards the end of the system life when games start to need more power and AMD's additional 8 P cores start to flex their muscle. Add in AMD's promise to support AM5 till 2025 and expected lower operating temps, it's looking pretty grim for Intel in my opinion. I intend to wait and see what they have to offer but I'm not optimistic at the moment. If Intel pulls off an unexpected miracle IPC gain with insane thermal improvements somehow then it could pull off a win but it doesn't seem likely considering the 10nm limitations and the size and age of their P core design.

It does look like Intel will be competitive regarding single and multithread performance and most likely price. It's just the power and heat combined with it's limited long-term performance of both the chip and the platform that I think will sink it for people who pay attention. I don't think it's going to be a disaster, it will be a competitive chip but X3D early next year might really put Intel down for the count if they can't react quickly with some serious improvements to the P cores. Meteor lake keeps getting delayed as well so things could get pretty rough for Intel in the near future.

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Old Aug 30, 2022, 03:17 PM   #122
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Intel Intel 13th-Gen Core "Raptor Lake" Launch and Availability Dates Confirmed

Announcement on September 27; availability on October 20.

A leaked Intel company document detailing the "go to market" (GTM) plan for its 13th Gen Core "Raptor Lake" desktop processors, reveals key dates associated with it. Intel will likely hold a launch event for the 13th Gen Core "Raptor Lake" processors on September 27, 2022 (when it's September 28 in Taiwan). This happens to be the same day AMD's Ryzen 7000 "Zen 4" processors go on sale. Pre-orders for these processors will open on October 13, 2022 (or October 14 in Taiwan). This is when you'll be able to order one online. October 20 is when the processors will be available to purchase off the shelf (October 21 in Taiwan). This document does not deal with review NDAs, so we'll have to guess that reviews go live somewhere between September 27 and October 13.


Sources: techPowerUp!, wxnod (Twitter), VideoCardz.com
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Old Aug 30, 2022, 03:52 PM   #123
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Thanks Chris, gonna be a long wait but I'm not buying until I see what 13700K can do.
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Old Aug 30, 2022, 05:11 PM   #124
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Thanks Chris, gonna be a long wait but I'm not buying until I see what 13700K can do.
You’re welcome! That’s a good idea. Are you considering AMD as well?
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Old Aug 30, 2022, 08:52 PM   #125
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Will wait for Intel as well. The 7000 series is a weak showing.
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Old Aug 31, 2022, 09:06 PM   #126
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You’re welcome! That’s a good idea. Are you considering AMD as well?
Of course!
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Old Aug 31, 2022, 09:09 PM   #127
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Will wait for Intel as well. The 7000 series is a weak showing.
It looks pretty good to me. If AMD can beat Intel on TDP, it will be even better.
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Old Aug 31, 2022, 10:08 PM   #128
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It looks pretty good to me. If AMD can beat Intel on TDP, it will be even better.
It's really not impressive considering it's a 50% transistor increase and they're talking about 230w with an even higher thermal density. I'm also hearing rumors that the DDR5 support is struggling worse than AlderLake did at release - lots of talk of Zen4 being stuck in the ~5000Mhz frequency range due to weak IMC's.. again.
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Old Aug 31, 2022, 10:16 PM   #129
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It's really not impressive considering it's a 50% transistor increase and they're talking about 230w with an even higher thermal density. I'm also hearing rumors that the DDR5 support is struggling worse than AlderLake did at release - lots of talk of Zen4 being stuck in the ~5000Mhz frequency range due to weak IMC's.. again.
Hmm, good point on the transistors. Is the 230 W number for the 7950X?
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Old Sep 1, 2022, 02:26 PM   #130
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It's really not impressive considering it's a 50% transistor increase and they're talking about 230w with an even higher thermal density. I'm also hearing rumors that the DDR5 support is struggling worse than AlderLake did at release - lots of talk of Zen4 being stuck in the ~5000Mhz frequency range due to weak IMC's.. again.
They are claiming 6000 is the sweet spot for price/performance

3600 was the sweet spot on price/performance for the ryzen 5000 according to amd, but most of them manage 3800 just fine.
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Old Sep 1, 2022, 04:43 PM   #131
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I'm not sure I believe that just yet. When they showcased the chip, it wasn't running 6000. Just be aware, DDR5 is much more motherboard dependent; we found out with AlderLake that 2DPC (aka, 4 DIMM slot boards) struggle horrendously to run any sort of decent frequency, and also have a hard time tightening timings. Most people with 6000Mhz+ kits have a very hard time running XMP with kits in that speed range. They either require much higher voltages than what XMP calls for, or simply won't be stable regardless of voltages.
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Old Sep 1, 2022, 04:47 PM   #132
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Most people with 6000Mhz+ kits have a very hard time running XMP with kits in that speed range. They either require much higher voltages than what XMP calls for, or simply won't be stable regardless of voltages.
Shite! Even now?
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Old Sep 1, 2022, 06:12 PM   #133
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Shite! Even now?
Yes, on 4 DIMM slot boards.

My best suggestion is to buy a 2 DIMM slot board. There's no point for a 4 slot board imo. If you need higher capacity, buy 2x32gb sticks. If you need 4x32gb, have fun running 4800 JEDEC lol
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Old Sep 1, 2022, 06:16 PM   #134
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Yes, on 4 DIMM slot boards.

My best suggestion is to buy a 2 DIMM slot board. There's no point for a 4 slot board imo. If you need higher capacity, buy 2x32gb sticks. If you need 4x32gb, have fun running 4800 JEDEC lol
Wow! Is the problem with Intel or the board manufacturers?
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Old Sep 1, 2022, 06:39 PM   #135
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Yes, on 4 DIMM slot boards.

My best suggestion is to buy a 2 DIMM slot board. There's no point for a 4 slot board imo. If you need higher capacity, buy 2x32gb sticks. If you need 4x32gb, have fun running 4800 JEDEC lol
Great tip, many thanks.
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Old Sep 1, 2022, 09:11 PM   #136
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When Intel showing us their stuff?
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Old Sep 1, 2022, 09:32 PM   #137
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When Intel showing us their stuff?
Probably September 27 or 28. Those are the days on which their upcoming event will take place.
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Old Sep 4, 2022, 10:00 AM   #138
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Old Sep 4, 2022, 12:48 PM   #139
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Looks like they had some instability, or the ES sample they have is missing instruction sets.

RPL looks like it's doing what Intel wanted, though. Reduce power consumption, maximize efficiency, and simultaneously raise clock speeds. It's not revolutionary, but it's a nice bump. If they manage to make the 13900K scale DDR5 clocks even better than it already does, this thing will crush Zen4 when fully tweaked.
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Old Sep 8, 2022, 11:58 AM   #140
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Intel Key Slides from Intel 13th Gen "Raptor Lake" Launch Presentation Leak

If you wish to view the full set of leaked slides, you can do so by clicking the link to Igor’s Lab below.

The most juicy bits of the Intel 13th Gen Core "Raptor Lake" launch press-deck just leaked, courtesy of Igor's Lab. They reveal the six SKUs Intel will debut the 13th Gen Core desktop processor series with, highlight key differences with the previous-gen "Alder Lake," and also detail what the new Intel Z790 chipset brings to the table. To begin with, the first-wave of 13th Gen Core processors will include six SKUs—the Core i9-13900K, i9-13900KF, i7-13700K, i7-13700KF, i5-13600K, and the i5-13600KF. The -K and -KF parts are identical to each other, spare for the lack of integrated graphics with the -KF ones.

Many of the key specs of these six SKUs were already leaked to the web along with those of several SKUs from future waves of 13th Gen SKUs, but this slide confirms a handful interesting specs related to power. The slide confirms 125 W as the Processor Base Power value for all six SKUs, 253 W as the Maximum Turbo Power value for the Core i9 and Core i7 K/KF SKUs; and 181 W as the Maximum Turbo Power for the Core i5 K/KF SKUs. This is a definite step up from the 241 W MTP for the previous-gen Core i9, 190 W MTP for the Core i7, and 150 W MTP for the Core i5. Of course, these limits are like a hedge blocking your path, you can relax them in the motherboard BIOS.


Sources: techPowerUp!, Igor’s Lab
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Old Sep 8, 2022, 12:25 PM   #141
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Intel Intel Core i9-13900K "Raptor Lake" Overclocked to 8 GHz Frequency with LN2

With even higher frequencies to come, according to the unnamed overclocker. Could Intel take the clock speed crown away from AMD?

It's been more than a decade since Intel achieved an overclocked frequency record beyond 8 GHz. The only Intel chips that show up in the 8 GHz+ lists at HWBOT are the old Celeron and Pentium 4 parts dating back to the early 2000s. However, Intel is going to change this next month with its 13th Generation Raptor Lake CPUs.

Currently, the highest frequency record still belongs to AMD's FX-8370 which sits at an insane 8.72 GHz. Intel's Celeron D352 takes up the fifth spot with an overclocked frequency of 8.61 GHz. So far, there have been no modern Core or Ryzen CPUs that have managed to break past the 8 GHz clock barrier. The Intel Core i9-10900K was the last modern chip to achieve a high clock rating of 7.7 GHz a few years back. Overclockers are now gearing up to once again achieve overclocks beyond 8 GHz with the Raptor Lake chips such as the Core i9-13900K.

We managed to secure an overclocked result of the Intel Core i9-13900K Raptor Lake CPU from an overclocker whose currently testing the chip on an unreleased Z790 motherboard. We can't say the name or model of the manufacturer or brand that the board is from but it is going to be a real high end variant. The overclocker stated that he was easily able to push the 13900K Raptor Lake up to 8 GHz using LN2 cooling and with a voltage of 1.792V.


Source: Wccftech

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Old Sep 8, 2022, 01:48 PM   #142
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They may. But will they burn your house down doing it?

EDIT:
Wow, not a lot of reason to upgrade from Z690-->Z790 it seems.
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Old Sep 8, 2022, 04:29 PM   #143
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They may. But will they burn your house down doing it?

EDIT:
Wow, not a lot of reason to upgrade from Z690-->Z790 it seems.
There will be. I suspect lots of OC potential and the IMC for DDR5 is expected to take much higher frequencies. Tied with the new Hynix memory chips (code A-DIE) that are hitting 7800CL32 with low voltage, this will absolutely murder DDR4.

People with good AlderLake IMC's are hitting crazy numbers on Hynix A-Die. There's a few guys testing max frequencies and someone has validations at over 9000Mhz on the RAM. Crazy!
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Old Sep 8, 2022, 05:44 PM   #144
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I wonder if the Kingston Renegade CL32 6400 stuff I just got is A-Die. Hmmm...

If I do end up going with a 13th gen Intel setup over AM5 looks like the Z690 might be a great option to save some money over vs. Z790.
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Old Sep 8, 2022, 05:54 PM   #145
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I wonder if the Kingston Renegade CL32 6400 stuff I just got is A-Die. Hmmm...

If I do end up going with a 13th gen Intel setup over AM5 looks like the Z690 might be a great option to save some money over vs. Z790.
The Kingston kit is M-Die. A-Die is not out in mainstream kits right now; most are ordering it direct from Taiwan. It's not out for "normies" just yet.

I would hold out. Z690 boards and the CPU IMC seem to be the limitations for DDR5 frequency. A-Die seems to require much less voltage, which is easing the motherboard requirements, but it's not the entire problem.

I suspect Z790 boards and RPL chips will break 8000 stable for many overclockers.
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Old Sep 9, 2022, 02:38 PM   #146
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Intel Non-K 13th-Gen Core i5 CPUs Based on Older "Alder Lake" Architecture?

This is another case of confusing and misleading nomenclature from a major company.

Remember how 12th Gen Core i5 non-K was vastly different in performance from the Core i5 K/KF on account of being 6P+0E processors in comparison to more L3 cache and a 6P+4E core-count of the i5-12600K/KF? Intel is doubling down on creating architectural confusion in the mid-range, according to a 3DCenter.org article citing a leaked slide from Intel's 13th Gen Core launch press-deck.

We had earlier thought that the 13th Gen non-K Core i5 will have a 6P+4E core-config, but still be based on "Raptor Lake" (i.e. "Raptor Cove" P-cores + "Gracemont" E-cores), in comparison to the i5-13600K/KF, which are confirmed "Raptor Lake" chips with 6P+8E configuration; but it turns out that Intel is basing the non-K 13th Gen Core i5 on the older "Alder Lake" microarchitecture. These chips will be 6P+4E (that's six "Golden Cove" P-cores + four "Gracemont" E-cores), which make them essentially identical to the i5-12600K, but without the unlocked multiplier, and a lower 65 W processor base power.


Sources: techPowerUp!, 3DCenter.org
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Old Sep 13, 2022, 04:54 PM   #147
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Intel Intel Canada Leaks First Wave of Core "Raptor Lake" Desktop Processors

The official launch of the thirteenth generation of Intel’s Core CPUs is only two weeks away.

In an article explaining how to choose the right desktop processor with examples, Intel Canada accidentally leaked the Core i9-13900K, i7-13700K, and i5-13600K processors. The article has since been corrected with their 12th Gen predecessors, but not before screenshots made it to social media. The screenshots confirm the core-count of the i5-13600K to be 14-core/20-thread (6P+8E), the i7-13700K to be 16-core/24-thread (8P+8E), and the flagship i9-13900K to be 20-core/32-thread (8P+16E). It also mentions their clock speeds to be 5.10 GHz P-core boost for the i5-13600K, 5.30 GHz for the i7-13700K, and 5.40 GHz for the i9-13900K; however leaked press-deck slides list these as maximum Turbo Boost 2.0 frequencies. The Boost Max 3.0 and Thermal Velocity Boost frequencies are much higher. In case of the i9-13900K, it can be as high as 5.80 GHz. Intel is expected to launch its 13th Gen Core desktop processor series on September 27.


Sources: techPowerUp!, Intel Canada, momomo_us (Twitter), VideoCardz.com
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Old Sep 13, 2022, 06:03 PM   #148
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Old Sep 19, 2022, 03:14 PM   #149
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Intel Early Core i9-13900K Review Hints That It Holds Up to the "20-40" Claim

Unfortunately, the review on Billibilli, the original source of the benchmarks, appears to have been taken down.

An early review of a retail Intel Core i9-13900K "Raptor Lake" 8P+16E processor shows it holding up to the rumored "20-40" claim, the idea that the processor can be up to 20% faster in gaming, and up to 40% faster in productivity, compared to the current i9-12900K. Much of the gaming performance increase is attributed to the higher IPC of the new "Raptor Cove" P-cores, and the much higher boost clocks they run at (up to 5.80 GHz); whereas the multi-threaded performance boost comes from not just the faster P-cores, but a doubling in the E-core count to 16, and improved E-core cache structures, besides higher clock speeds that they run on. For tests that scale across P-cores and E-cores, the i9-13900K behaves like a 24-core/32-thread processor, which is what it is. Among the tests included are CSGO, AIDA64, 7-Zip, WinRAR, Cinebench R15, R20, and R23; and their average, in comparison to the i9-12900K.


Sources: techPowerUp!, ECSM_Official (Bilibili), VideoCardz.com
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