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-   -   Nvidia RTX DLSS/Ray Tracing Discussion (http://www.rage3d.com/board/showthread.php?t=34049038)

acroig Apr 9, 2020 02:45 PM

DLSS 2.0 tested: why you should finally turn on Nvidia's AI-powered upscaling
 
https://www.pcgamer.com/nvidia-dlss-...in-youngblood/

The results of DLSS 2.0 in Quality mode are something quite spectacular in Control. Strong detail emerges from even the background of the scene, such as the tent guy lines in the rear of the frame, or the cracks in Jesse's leather jacket that add a few more months of wear and tear to her outfit. Hair's still a sticking point, however, and aliasing where the AI has struggled to upscale the source material shows there's room to deliver more computer smarts per pixel in the future.

Yet with a performance boost in the 60% range between DLSS 2.0 Quality and Native 1440p rendering, some foibles can be ignored. It's the difference between sub-60fps and resoundingly smooth gameplay even in the worst case scenario: native 1440p at 57fps average, and 47fps minimum; DLSS 2.0 quality at 91fps average, and 74fps minimum.

SSXeon Apr 10, 2020 10:19 AM

Finally fixed it! Control was blurry AF with DLSS 1.0, I couldn't have it on. Ill have to try it later. :)

gamefoo21 Apr 15, 2020 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by acroig (Post 1338186969)
https://www.pcgamer.com/nvidia-dlss-...in-youngblood/

The results of DLSS 2.0 in Quality mode are something quite spectacular in Control. Strong detail emerges from even the background of the scene, such as the tent guy lines in the rear of the frame, or the cracks in Jesse's leather jacket that add a few more months of wear and tear to her outfit. Hair's still a sticking point, however, and aliasing where the AI has struggled to upscale the source material shows there's room to deliver more computer smarts per pixel in the future.

Yet with a performance boost in the 60% range between DLSS 2.0 Quality and Native 1440p rendering, some foibles can be ignored. It's the difference between sub-60fps and resoundingly smooth gameplay even in the worst case scenario: native 1440p at 57fps average, and 47fps minimum; DLSS 2.0 quality at 91fps average, and 74fps minimum.


Quote:

In Control the DLSS signage doesn't shine quite so bright. The three tiers still exist, they're just down as three render resolutions, which is far from intuitive. With an output resolution of 1440p (this will depend on your monitor resolution), we can select between three presets: 1280x720, 1484x835, and 1706x960. These are then upscaled to your output resolution through the magic of AI and DLSS. Each value effectively represents one of the tiers: 1280x720 is equal to Performance, 1484x835 is Balanced, and 1706x960 is Quality. The lower the resolution, the worse the fidelity of the final image—but also the lower the load on the GPU, ergo greater performance.
Quote:

Control DLSS 2.0 performance using driver version 445.75

Setting (Resolution) - Avg (fps) - Min (fps / 99th percentile)
Native (1440p) 57 - 47
DLSS 2.0 (Upscaler Resolution)
Quality (1706x960) 91 - 74
Balanced (1484x835) 107 - 78
Performance (1280x720) 124 - 99
Quote:

For comparison the number of pixels at each resolution: (Percent of original)
1440p: 3,691,520
960p: 1,637,760 (44.37%)
835p: 1,239,140 (33.57%)
720p: 921,600 (24.97%)

For shits and giggles
1920x1080: 2,073,600 (56.17%) = FHD or 1080p
3840x2160: 8,294,400 (224.69%) = UHD or 4K

I still think it's a little ironic that performance of the silicon has plateaued so much that we see tech meant to boost low/mid range hardware being used to market and push the high end kit.

It's a really impressive upscaling algorithm, it does a surprisingly good job considering the loss of pixels compared to the original. Though I think AMD's system of letting the image kick to native resolution when you aren't making movement inputs is a little better, so you can stare at full res textures, while it drops the resolution when you move the mouse. It's like a fancy version of motion blur, and we all know how much we love the blur... :lol:

I actually don't like either to be honest, but if you need the performance gain because your GPU can't maintain the performance needed, both are a far superior option to 'display' scaling.

NV's option is handy because it's not user input dependent. Though I think my biggest gripe is how they are using 'super-sampling' because I remember when that meant the card was rendering a higher resolution image that it then scaled down to your display resolution.

I think the reviews of DLSS need to bench natively at the DLSS resolutions, to see what the performance impact of using it is. It's fine to say look how much faster 960p upscaled is than 1440p, but what about native 960p vs DLSS 2.0 applied 960p. I haven't seen any reviews that actually compare that point, because there's something of a performance hit there. Considering the requirement for tensor cores, DLSS performance is definitely tied to those cores, the number of them and their capabilities. :sherlock:

SIrPauly Apr 15, 2020 02:02 PM

Digital Foundry raised the Dlss 2.0 performance impact a bit, I think it was 11 percent with a 2080ti and 15 percent with lesser Rtx derivatives.

OverclockN' Apr 15, 2020 02:48 PM

Quote:

I still think it's a little ironic that performance of the silicon has plateaued so much that we see tech meant to boost low/mid range hardware being used to market and push the high end kit.
I don't think it's plateaued at all. The percentage of performance increase is the same as other generations. The difference is a lot of folks jumped to 4k resolution, and it's just brutal to try and run anything at that. There is going to be a bit of time for hardware to catch up.

SIrPauly Apr 15, 2020 03:11 PM

I think raw performance is getting tougher and Moore's Law is getting to be something from the past; and silicon and transistor budgets may be used for efficiency and reality fidelity features.

Exposed Apr 16, 2020 06:37 PM

RTX and DLSS 2.0 released for mine craft. All the usual tech sites have taken a look, even more this time around because its well.... mine craft. They are all blown away by the rtx enhancements and equally with dlss 2.0 for the cards that needs it. Digital foundry especially had some fun with their own built level.





Exposed Apr 16, 2020 08:10 PM


bill dennison Apr 18, 2020 03:34 PM



gee lets have some RTX pong :p
or maybe Zork

SIrPauly Apr 18, 2020 05:30 PM

My constructive nit-pick is denoising, which i believe there is a lot to innovate here from a quality and efficiency stand-point; and curious to see how much tensor cores may help here moving forward.

bill dennison May 13, 2020 12:40 PM

not RTX Unreal Engine 5 demo

running on PS5

https://wccftech.com/unreal-engine-5...tation-5-demo/


Quote:

Unreal Engine 5 Demoed on PlayStation 5, Amazing New Lighting and Modeling Tech Shown


looks good


Nascar24 May 13, 2020 02:12 PM

Nice, all new RDNA2 tech which will be in all games due to the consoles and carry over to Big Navi and maybe not Nvidia.:eek: :hmm: Or is this just specific to the Unreal engine and will carry over to both?

bill dennison May 13, 2020 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nascar24 (Post 1338193169)
Nice, all new RDNA2 tech which will be in all games due to the consoles and carry over to Big Navi and maybe not Nvidia.:eek: :hmm: Or is this just specific to the Unreal engine and will carry over to both?

they said it would work on RTX also

and for now it is specific to the Unreal engine but a lot will copy it

Exposed May 13, 2020 03:40 PM

The newest Unreal engine 4 build has RTX tools built in, UE5 will have it too. This doesn't show any ray tracing effects but wasn't meant to. An UE5 demo running actual ray tracing effects will be considerably more impressive, this was just meant to be a PS5 showcase. The demo was also running dynamically between 1080p and 1440p at 30fps on PC dev kits, not actual PS5 hardware. I doubt they were using 2080Ti's in the dev kits, probably the Radeon 7 workstation equivalent.

Trunks0 May 13, 2020 09:21 PM

This demo was more about "look how quickly you can work with UE5" and less about "Look how insanely pretty things can be". Everything in the demo is talking about how quickly you can assets in, edit in real time and build your worlds. Using raw art assets, pre-calculated/sampled 3D-Audio effects, Fully dynamic lighting with real-time GI that adapts immediately, Dynamic animations that are automatically aware of the environments you build etc etc etc.

OverclockN' May 14, 2020 02:32 PM

I wasn't terribly impressed by the visuals side of it. I mean, obviously it looks great...but nothing too far from what we already have in some games if not on par.

What I got from that video was supposedly how easy it is to create it along with how well it performs. We'll see...

bill dennison May 24, 2020 01:31 PM

Quote:

NVIDIA Researchers Demonstrate New Raytracing Algorithm That Can Render Direct Lighting from Millions of Dynamic Light Sources


https://wccftech.com/nvidia-research...light-sources/

SIrPauly May 24, 2020 04:20 PM

That's interesting also from a denoising standpoint and doesn't need post processing as much.

Exposed Jul 13, 2020 02:54 PM


Riptide Jul 16, 2020 08:03 AM

Kind of a dumb question here. How does DLSS support actually work? I can't find any way to enable it in the options for TD2. Is it automatic? Or do some games just not have support for it?

Exposed Jul 16, 2020 08:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riptide (Post 1338206373)
Kind of a dumb question here. How does DLSS support actually work? I can't find any way to enable it in the options for TD2. Is it automatic? Or do some games just not have support for it?

What's TD2?

It's game specific support. Games that support it have the option to turn it on in game, like in Death Stranding. It's not something you can enable in the control panel.

Exposed Jul 16, 2020 08:17 AM

Also, a note about Death Stranding. This game looks better than native 4k (when using DLSS quality in 4k mode). This is coming from pretty much every major tech site, and you can see in the PC gaming thread here people are noticing that too.

I just started playing this and can't explain why, but unlike Wolfenstein Youngblood and Control, there's a noticeable difference in visual quality between native 4k (with and without TAA) and DLSS 2.0. I think it's because DLSS has higher quality assets to work with compared to prior DLSS supported games. Death Stranding is definitely one of the better looking games out there, better than many AAA Unreal Engine/Unity/Cryengine games we've seen thus far.


We'll be talking in more depth about native rendering vs DLSS vs console checkerboarding in a later piece but suffice to say, if you aren't using DLSS, you're not seeing the game at its best


bill dennison Jul 16, 2020 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Exposed (Post 1338206376)
Also, a note about Death Stranding. This game looks better than native 4k (when using DLSS quality in 4k mode). This is coming from pretty much every major tech site, and you can see in the PC gaming thread here people are noticing that too.

I just started playing this and can't explain why, but unlike Wolfenstein Youngblood and Control, there's a noticeable difference in visual quality between native 4k (with and without TAA) and DLSS 2.0. I think it's because DLSS has higher quality assets to work with compared to prior DLSS supported games. Death Stranding is definitely one of the better looking games out there, better than many AAA Unreal Engine/Unity/Cryengine games we've seen thus far.


We'll be talking in more depth about native rendering vs DLSS vs console checkerboarding in a later piece but suffice to say, if you aren't using DLSS, you're not seeing the game at its best


i don't believe it but ok

as i am not buying this POS ...UPS game to find out

acroig Jul 16, 2020 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bill dennison (Post 1338206421)
i don't believe it but ok

as i am not buying this POS ...UPS game to find out

:lol: , I keep thinking I'm missing something but so far this does not seem like my kind of game.

SirBaron Jul 16, 2020 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bill dennison (Post 1338206421)
i don't believe it but ok

as i am not buying this POS ...UPS game to find out

You wouldn't believe it ;).

However 2 games so far look better with DLSS 2.0 at 4K than running it native.

It's not like Digital Foundry have no idea what they're talking about.

If Nvidia becomes hyper aggressive with implementing DLSS into all the big games, then AMD is going to have a huge problem unless they can come up with a similar solution, otherwise they'll be playing catch up on 2 fronts, raw power, and AI upscaling.

bill dennison Jul 16, 2020 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by acroig (Post 1338206423)
:lol: , I keep thinking I'm missing something but so far this does not seem like my kind of game.

:yep:

the fun in that game

and believability come on i used to backpack a lot and there is no way in hell you could walk with 10 to 15 foot of packages on your backpack :lol:

Seyiji Jul 16, 2020 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bill dennison (Post 1338206428)
:yep:

the fun in that game

and believability come on i used to backpack a lot and there is no way in hell you could walk with 10 to 15 foot of packages on your backpack :lol:

Grasping at straws their billy.

Especially in a game where you jack into a test tube baby so you can see the killer predator dust trying to murder you.

DLSS 2.0 seems legit as frig. Anything to get rid of the jaggy hair and **** that's in games these days !__!

bill dennison Jul 16, 2020 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SirBaron (Post 1338206427)
You wouldn't believe it ;).

However 2 games so far look better with DLSS 2.0 at 4K than running it native.

It's not like Digital Foundry have no idea what they're talking about.

If Nvidia becomes hyper aggressive with implementing DLSS into all the big games, then AMD is going to have a huge problem unless they can come up with a similar solution, otherwise they'll be playing catch up on 2 fronts, raw power, and AI upscaling.

:lol:

RTX in games after almost 2 years is a ****ing joke so far

DLSS 2.0 looks good from what i have seen in what 3 or 4 games and 3.0 is coming with the 3000's
wonder if it will work with the 2000's ?

and as for AMD i am sure they will have it also with the new cards
as DLSS doesn't work on a GTX cards AMD needs the new ones also i think

bill dennison Jul 16, 2020 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seyiji (Post 1338206432)
Grasping at straws their billy.

Especially in a game where you jack into a test tube baby so you can see the killer predator dust trying to murder you.

DLSS 2.0 seems legit as frig. Anything to get rid of the jaggy hair and **** that's in games these days !__!

if horizon zero dawn comes with it i will use it but have not seen that it does

seems sometimes the worse the game the more RTX stuff they tack on :hmm:

acroig Jul 16, 2020 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bill dennison (Post 1338206440)
if horizon zero dawn comes with it i will use it but have not seen that it does

seems sometimes the worse the game the more RTX stuff they tack on :hmm:

You should try Deliver us the Moon.


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