The new HD 750 PCI-E cards have arrived ....but

D

DA1745

The Big Cheese
Diamond unleashes ( :cry: ) the first HD 750 PCI-E card but...
they appear (visual inspection of pictures ) to be
==> SINGLE hybrid tuners (just like the USB version ) - there is only one F-type connection - at least from what i can tell (unless ATI has miniturized things to where dual tuners fit inside of what was a single tuner case) - the card does appear to be smaller so... possible, (kidding here o'pining). SO far though NO data spelling that out on Diamond's site or ATIs.
==>OMG it says its SOFTWARE ENCODED? WTF? I mean it's not a huge deal, i never had any issues with old All-In-Wonders doing the software encoding because i think the decoders etc. did / do a better job than many hardware encoders....and todays pcs are much faster but Still that's back to TV wonder 600 Days.
==>No FM tuner.
Diamond appears to be the only one making these (so far)?

Unfortunately, Reading Diamonds & ATI's site doesn't provide the infomation and I can't find the old TV tuner matrix to check that way... GRR
I find this one but it's not the one i wanted and it doesn't have HD 750 on it.
http://www.amd.com/us/products/pctv/tv-wonder-tuners/Pages/tv-wonder-product-matrix.aspx
Ok i found another matrix but can't even find the old one that listed the USB 750... Anyone have that. I tried google but can't find it that way either.

=> no list of the software package (if any) that comes with it.


It's a bit like we just stepped back in time 4 years!
They do have the new 750 chip, and "Receive world wide broadcast signal support for NTSC, PAL/SECAM, ATSC, ClearQAM and DVB-T." so if you are world traveler there's some improvements in being able to play other contries formats.

Also says "Capture and convert your home videos, recorded TV shows, and movies into popular video formats such as H.264, AVI, MPEG, DivX, WMV, MPEG4"
I wonder if that just means it's capable of that... or they are actually including some NEW software with it.
 
Last edited:
Debello said:
Who listens to FM radio?
Click to expand...
Of all this things wrong, missing or lacking in the card and that's what you key in on? :hmm: While I don't use it a lot, FM tuning via the capture card allows for instant digitizing and programmable recording: Here is one that i do so love. Example: Have a monthly car or Computer program that you would like to hear but seem to miss it more often than not, checked the website but they want a few bucks for each mp3 of the show :evil: , checked P2p & bit torrent and nothing there. Well hello radio P.A.R. - All the functions of a PVR for audio. :)

But back to the focus of the posting this card is a rebadged ATI TV Wonder 600. WTF where they thinking? :o
The natural progression dictated as many other makers have put out, a duet style or dual hybrid card. One that uses ONE, or begrudgingly still TWO inputs but either is set up for two ATSC/Clear QAM imputs or two Hybrid NTSC or ATSC/Clear QAM... We've already been to this dance and at $10+ (*cheapest newegg $49 + s/h) versus a superior bargain in the TV Wonder 650 for LESS. This item has no obvious niche in the market except those who like to waste money for wasting monies' sake.
 
Last edited:
The problem is, what more did you want? It isn't like there are any need for new features. just get the 650 or get a hauppauge, because the 750 is worse than the 650. but still, there was no reason for the 750, because what more did we really need
 
Lkr721993 said:
The problem is, what more did you want? It isn't like there are any need for new features. just get the 650 or get a hauppauge, because the 750 is worse than the 650. but still, there was no reason for the 750, because what more did we really need
Click to expand...
Well, I just listed it in the post above yours ...quite simply (a DUAL - Hybrid Tuner Card)
so like the TV Wonder 650 PCI-Express (combo - Dual tuner card) it would have TWO TUNERs that operate independently.
But sometimes you don't want to have to choose between 1 SD & 1 HD you want both to be recorded in HD - when you have to choose between (1)NTSC & (1)ATSC/Clear QAM (WHY NOT BOTH options ON BOTH TUNERS)? -

I have two TV Wonder 650 PCI-E running because sometimes I want to record (2) Clear QAM programs at once... so that's what I would like. Hauppauge has had that a (Dual - Hybrid card) for over a year now. Avermedia (went too early to a Dual - ATSC/CLEAR QAM card (it's buggy) but I still need/want NTSC. The the perfect solution as I see it, is again a Dual Hybrid Tuner.

-And absolutely on the NTSC there should be good Hardware encoding. IDK? I actually think the ALL-IN-Wonders do / did a better job with NTSC analog than the hardware on these cards but anyway, for 98% of the buyers this will be seen as a negative, despite it being fine back in the P4 days and now CPUs are leaps and bounds more powerful...
-And a new software suite!!!
 
Last edited:
The HD750, which unusually, not include the advanced video processing beats with a card brings some advantages. It is especially if you have a / AMD ATI Radeon HD that it be used for transcoding is. Having the best support platforms to the well branded motherboards. It is unique in it and well with the component. Take all the aspects in the mind before purchasing it as it has some drawback too. The HD750 is a 2D/3D comb filter and noise reduction, such as intelligent deinterlacing has all the usual improvements. Its functionality TV Tuner SS2-750 proposals in addition to FM radio and even you with your PC audio / video sources allows to add. The only drawback is that there is no component input, just S-Video and composite. </span>
 
I have a homerun dual tuner coming for digital stuff in my home but I wanted a portable NTSC/ATSC tuner because 1)Canada has another year before we leave analog, 2) I wanted a simple solution for my laptop . That's why I bought my 750 usb.

So....

I posted questions about my 750 usb before I read this post. Is my diamond usb 750 functionally the same thing as the pcie 750? A hybrid single tuner?

From what I read elsewhere here there's issues having both NTSC *and* ATSC channels available when using the dual tuner 650 pci? Is that right?

So only the 650 pciE can show NTSC/ATSC in the same channel list?

What about the usb 650 combo? It has two inputs so can a guy get both NTSC/ATSC channels showing and tunable? Is the 650 USB combo the equivalent of the 650 pci or 650 pciE?

But...I've read the usb 650 combo runs really hot and has poorer pic quality than the 750 series.

This is all so confusing...I've had many AIW cards (working well I'll add) over the years and gave up when I got the crud TV Wonder USB 2.0 and it melted on me.
 
DA1745: I wonder if you may have a point about new software? As I've posted in other threads there has been no new TV Tuner drivers for the last two months. Mayhaps they were working in a different direction? Time will tell.
 
ubern000b said:
I have a homerun dual tuner coming for digital stuff in my home but I wanted a portable NTSC/ATSC tuner because 1)Canada has another year before we leave analog, 2) I wanted a simple solution for my laptop . That's why I bought my 750 usb.

So....

I posted questions about my 750 usb before I read this post. Is my diamond usb 750 functionally the same thing as the pcie 750? A hybrid single tuner? - YES - the cards are more a kin to the TV Wonder 600 than the ( Tv Wonder 650's).

From what I read elsewhere here there's issues having both NTSC *and* ATSC channels available when using the dual tuner 650 pci? Is that right?
Well, before I start an answer to that, lets make sure we mean the same card. Things were bad enough before Diamond started calling it's old TV Wonder 650 PCI a " Dual card " when it was nothing more than than a Single hybrid tuner. I even got fooled and i should have known better. :mad:

ANYWAY, so that other thread was talking about the TV Wonder 650 (PCI) that is a single hybrid. In Vista Media Center (found in Premium or Ultimate) that hasn't been altered or had the TV Media Pack added - It can only find one (1) ATSC OTA, or 2) NTSC Analog Cable/or\OTA - if you live in Canada) you might still have both analog & OTA analog unlike the U.S.
- See here: with a hybrid card it's one or the other.
http://www.hdtvtunerinfo.com/vistahdtvfaq.html

However, IF you don't plan to or cant' get Clear QAM, they link to the OLD work around listed on this page that MIGHT allow you to get Vista Media Center to see BOTH tuners... just be carefull since windows won't be able to detect conflicts in the tuners using this method. ( you shouldn't actually need KRAM drivers) and ?? this was written for orignally the ATI HDTV Wonder & then changed for the TV wonder 650 (PCI). So it maybe worth a shot to see if it will work on the TV Wonder 750? - you could email the website and ask them to confirm / update the site or just try it here's the direct link:
http://www.hdtvtunerinfo.com/vistahdtvinstall.html

IF you have VISTA (premium, Ultimate OS's ) and you have or are going to install the VISTA TV MEDIA PACK 2008 - A.K.A. Fiji - to enable Clear QAM then that work around WILL NOT WORK no matter what, and you will have to choose to either use the NTSC or ATSC/ClearQAM tuner but not both in Vista Media Center

- Another loop hole though is if you were to INSTALL two of these single hybrid tuners at the same time. Then 1) could be NTSC and the 2) ATSC OTA/or\Clear QAM.
So the answer is technically YES or NO Depends on the OS. THAT PROBLEM IS WITH VISTA MEDIA CENTER.
"Windows 7 Media Center does NOT need this routine as it recognizes both of the hybrid tuners."
So if you plan to use Windows 7 Media Center then it's not a problem it will see & detect both tuners... and will switch between one or the other as only one works at a time.



And maybe the software package CHANGES this BX. I never tried CMC - Catalyst Media Center with it or ? any of the other software, which DOES make a difference many times in these things.
For example I just tested and plan to post a review of an ASUS PHC-150 PCI (actual PCI dual tuner 1) NTSC & 1) ATSC / Clear Qam card that uses Arc Soft's Total Media 3.5 and can actually detect and display Clear QAM in XP, VISTA, & Windows 7... something that XP's MCE can't do & CMC Can't do in XP...
So who knows what would happen in vista if you used different software??

===============================================

So only the 650 pciE can show NTSC/ATSC in the same channel list?
Well no, that only applied to (VISTA and a hybrid tuner.) In Windows 7 Media Center for example since under W7 MCE it detects both the NTSC & ATSC /or\ Clear QAM parts of a Hybrid tuner like the TV Wonder 650 PCI, TV Wonder 600, or TV Wonder 750; it will display the listings for both together. You just can't record both at the same time. It will warn you if you try to. So if your laptop is Windows 7, you won't have a problem with it detecting both tuners of the 750..

((( Also one caveat ))) - If QAM comes to where you are in Canada.??
My cable company Charter just did another re-mapping of their Clear QAM line-up) so Windows 7 MCE & Windows Vista MCE w/ Vista TV Pack did not find any Clear QAM stations at first. Which presents a problem... So I had to use my HDTV which has a built In Clear QAM tuner to scan for the new channels. I then wrote them down on a piece of paper and manually used the Edit, add Clear QAM function to add in a few Clear QAM stations. Once i did that, then Windows displayed the ( via the Channel edit) all of the Clear QAM channels it had actually DETECTED but had not enabled because it could not match it to any Cable line up. ==> normally when I do a Clear QAM scan, Windows will match about 15 of my Clear QAM HD / SD Channels, all of my analog channels. Then i have to go in and remap about 10-15 more, plus the 40 digital music channels so things my channels all have names and guide lineups etc. There are usually one or two that don't have matching guide entry so I just leave them blank.

It took me a long time the first few times I did it. Then I learned shortcuts and I can do it in about a half an hour now. The hard part is figuring about what channel is what. Usually if you re-map / set the lineup during the news hours where stations show there number & identity it's pretty fast.

=============================================

What about the usb 650 combo? It has two inputs so can a guy get both NTSC/ATSC channels showing and tunable? Is the 650 USB combo the equivalent of the 650 pci or 650 pciE? Yes, the TV Wonder 650 USB (COMBO) is just the PCI-E board modified to run in an external enclosure. So it is in fact seperate 1) NTSC & 1) ATSC/Clear QAM tuners that run independently, so you can record two shows at once (one Analog SD & one Digital SD or HD), and you can watch either one or neither if you want to watch something else you've already recorded or a DVD etc.

Some have / had driver difficulties with it and you are no longer running off your PC's hopefully more stable & clean power supply you are using a power brick which can be unclean and vary widely in power outputs. Also ATI did a real $#1++y thing and dropped support altogether for it for Windows 7.
I'm not sure if ( like the TV WONDER 650 PCI-E you can simply use old Vista Drivers ...? or not I'm totally in the dark on that.
My 650 USB combo has been sitting on the shelf (again) for a long time. Maybe i'll bring it out... and try some more testing of W7 compatibility but I'm just too tired of this crap to right now.

===================================================


But...I've read the usb 650 combo runs really hot and has poorer pic quality than the 750 series.
Can you provide links to the second part. ( yes actually the PCI-E TV wonder 650's (internal) can get really hot at times too). But the heat is or CAN be an issue (since it's a small tight enclosure and not an open with fans blowing on it PC case) I think the biggest problem with the USB 650 Combos though, are it's drivers (finding the right ones) and that stinky external Power supply.

The reason I'd like to see the links about the picture quality is basically the 650 (USB, PCI, PCI-E all use the hardware encoding chip on the card).
However, it does make a difference in playback what / how you have your graphics card set up and what card you have. Windows Media center in Vista & W7 contstantly take over control of the color, brightness settings in my cards, and the picture on the same monitor coming from my system (same TV Wonder 650 PCI-E) with ATI X1950 XT is poorer than from my ATI HD3870. i'm not smart enough to know why? but it's NOT the settings or drivers... when they had the same drivers Catalyst 9.3 and the same color profile (standard) the HD 3870 dispayed a better more vibrant picture?

So why might the 750 be better? Well the 750 (usb & PCI-E), like the 600 relies on Software encoding which means it's offloaded to either your CPU or ?? Graphics card for processing. Other things come into play as well. Which DVD / Mpeg 2 encoder is being used? Microsoft Vista (premium & Ulimate) & W7 with MCE all have an Ok one built in, but others can be (aquired) or bought for about $15 (Nvidia, cyberlink, roxio...).

===============================================

This is all so confusing...I've had many AIW cards (working well I'll add) over the years and gave up when I got the crud TV Wonder USB 2.0 and it melted on me.
Click to expand...
I'm with you in spirit. This get's crazy confusing. I mean you used to be able to say NO Clear QAM in XP. But then HD Homerun came along & now that's not true...others followed suite. So Lots of things are possible with the right hardware & software.
=====================================================
Well, for your laptop... You need to answer some questions. What is your OS now ( or going to be?) IF you are running Windows 7 Then the 750 will be seen as capable of NTSC or ATSC/ClearQAM.

So then the next question is how many recordings at once is enough? Can you live with one? Then a 750 sounds good there. You might even be able to run TWO 750 USBs at the same time depending on your laptops processor (and depending on the Software encoding and whether you are recording NTSC or ATSC) It might actually be harder for it to record two NTSC shows at once because both would have to be encoding at the same time (but a fast modern processor should plow right through that & and IDK if any of that would / could be shifted off to the GPU or not? than to record two ATSC since ATSC will already be in Mpeg2 format in most cases.

Portablitily, you had asked about the TV wonder 650 USB. how portable do you want this set up to be?
The TV wonder 650 USB combo is meant to be used say on your desktop or if you want to take it with you and set it up in your hotel room, it's not as portable as the 750. In case that's another criteria. And the 650 Combo needs an outlet to power it vs the 750 is powered by (1) or in some cases you need a Y cable and (2) usb ports to run it, but still that means you are vastly more portible.

===================
I spent so much time typing i forgot that you wanted this for a laptop... so kind of disregard ... below as you already have the HD HOMERUN.
Basically, if i was spending my money all over again. I would still buy (especially when they are down around $30-40) a TV wonder 650. It has you covered in Canada & the U.S. for a while to come. It will get the ATSC over the air if you live near enough a city to pull that in.
For me, i use both Vista MCE (Ultimate - but premium would work too) with the TV Media Pack and Window 7 MCE to pull in Cable's Clear QAM and Analog on the other tuner. I have an embarrasing number of Media PCs (including some still running ATI All-In-Wonders when I want better recording options for file formats etc that Windows simply refuses to offer.
I live so far out of town & we are at the very end run of our cable so as much as it pains me to say it, i'm lucky we can afford cable, bc if OTA was all we had i'd be down to ABC, NBC, FOX, and PBS, no CBS and those saturday golf marathons make me want to kill myself!
 
Last edited:
cromwell said:
DA1745: I wonder if you may have a point about new software? As I've posted in other threads there has been no new TV Tuner drivers for the last two months. Mayhaps they were working in a different direction? Time will tell.
Click to expand...
I re-visited Diamond's website. it looks like once PCI-E version comes with the Crappy ole' CMC and the other version comes with ARC Soft's Total Media.

I got a chance to work with Total Media 3.5 with a new Asus card I bought so i'm going to try and post a little bit about it soon.
 
@da1745

Thanks for the comprehensive reply. I'm still digesting most of it.

At this point, my homerun is going to be my main (and future hd) tuner. I can record a hd channel while watching another hd so that suits me. I can't foresee a need to record 2 hd shows at the same time.

I have decided to install Win7 on my laptop to get both the media centre and the w7 advantages (there must be some, right?) over Vista. If have read things right w7 will detect all my tuners and let me choose from ntsc/atsc sources without rebooting or whatnot. The 750 usb came with a remote that I hope works with the w7 media center.

Again, if my interpretation is right, I will be able to record hd and sd at the same time. That situation should work on my lower end laptop and be of use to me.

We don't transition for another year so my 750 will be my ntsc solution till we switch. Even then it should prove useful for the road with a netbook and a decent antenna.

PER YOUR REQUEST, I'm going to fiddle a bit with the source menu choice to see what I get when using my 750 and post the results.

FWIW, I downloaded a copy of totalmedia for use with the homerun. I'll install it to see what's different from my diamond copy.

I was budgeting about $250 for my ota project (here, that's about the going price for a 1080p 24-26" tv) . The homerun and 750 and 4 bay bow tie have almost eaten that up so w7 is going to break the budget.

edit 10.07.24

Using the Diamond 750 and Diamond supplied TM3.5 and selecting source shows the different modes of the chosen tuner, ie. if the tuner is in NTSC mode, source only shows NTSC antenna/cable/composite as choices. If I run through the setup again and choose ATSC as the working tuner source only shows ATSC antenna or cable. It was either or for source, but not both.

I had to remove the Diamond TM3.5, as SiliconDust techs said only their version of TM had the HR support built in. The HR TM3.5 is newer? (3.5.40 vs Diamond 3.5.17) but I lost the "To Go" feature. Having said all this, I can now with the source menu choose between NTSC (the DiAMOND) or ATSC (the Homerun).

I didn't bother to try the HR TM3.5 using only the Diamond to see what choosing source would yeild. I had issues getting the HR to stream properly and after getting that working didn't feel like breaking anything. Nor have I yet to try watching one source while recording another.

In theory I should be able to record a NTSC and a ATSC program while watching a different ATSC program but my laptop is really struggling just to play one ATSC program.
 
Last edited:
ubern000b said:
@da1745

Thanks for the comprehensive reply. I'm still digesting most of it.

At this point, my homerun is going to be my main (and future hd) tuner. I can record a hd channel while watching another hd so that suits me. I can't foresee a need to record 2 hd shows at the same time.
...
Again, if my interpretation is right, I will be able to record hd and sd at the same time. That situation should work on my lower end laptop and be of use to me.
...
PER YOUR REQUEST, I'm going to fiddle a bit with the source menu choice to see what I get when using my 750 and post the results.

FWIW, I downloaded a copy of totalmedia for use with the homerun. I'll install it to see what's different from my diamond copy.

edit 10.07.24

Using the Diamond 750 and Diamond supplied TM3.5 and selecting source shows the different modes of the chosen tuner, ie. if the tuner is in NTSC mode, source only shows NTSC antenna/cable/composite as choices. If I run through the setup again and choose ATSC as the working tuner source only shows ATSC antenna or cable. It was either or for source, but not both.

I had to remove the Diamond TM3.5, as SiliconDust techs said only their version of TM had the HR support built in. The HR TM3.5 is newer? (3.5.40 vs Diamond 3.5.17) but I lost the "To Go" feature. Having said all this, I can now with the source menu choose between NTSC (the DiAMOND) or ATSC (the Homerun).

I didn't bother to try the HR TM3.5 using only the Diamond to see what choosing source would yeild. I had issues getting the HR to stream properly and after getting that working didn't feel like breaking anything. Nor have I yet to try watching one source while recording another.

In theory I should be able to record a NTSC and a ATSC program while watching a different ATSC program but my laptop is really struggling just to play one ATSC program.
Click to expand...
When I read the top part about your interpretation being you would be able to record both simultaneously from the 750... I got worried but as I read on I see that you meant 750 = for analog and HDHomerun for Digital which sounds just fine.

I have had a alot of time to play with my Asus PHC3-150 (NTSC/ATSC\QAM) PCI <-- yes PCI dual tuner. It too comes with a TotalMedia 3.5 version but as I found out and you have as well there is a lot of customization that goes into the TM3.5 software. For example I downloaded the full version (on a trial) from ArcSoft thinking it would have everything I wanted. Because in the Asus version of TM3.5 the EPG doesn't work, there is no Music, DVD, Or To Go modules and you have to enter every channel name MANUALLY all the analogs + digitals and then recording (without at EPG is all manual like an old VCR).
So I MISTAKENLY THOUGHT I'll go to the maker of it and get the most complete version. Well while it did have the DVD, Music and To Go modules - the version they sell for $79.99 on there website Doesn't tune in Clear QAM??? WHAT??? And at current, there is a Bug in the EPG - they told me after I sent screen shots that they are sending it off to their engineers but I likely won't care until the price drops $30 and they add Clear QAM support. It's pretty crazy to even consider BUYing the TotalMedia 3.5 TV software from them it's a sad cousin to the Windows Media Centers (even with there bugs and issues).
It has taken me 2 1/2 weeks of asking there customer service a question, then waiting 3-4 days to get a reply, then usually getting an un-helpful short or un-related to the question asked answer, then repeat, repeat, repeat, until finally they figured out that there version on the website doesn't do Clear QAM - that Asus and other OEM vendors add or have that functionality added in.

The rep said we haven't updated it in a long time... There must not be a lot of users of it either to have an EPG problem like that go unfixed!
BTW I tried the set up in XP MCE 2005, Vista W/ TV Pack, and Windows 7.
 
The Diamond MM Support site only offers drivers for their 750 cards dated 5/10 so they must be the ATI Cat 10-4 drivers or a close facsimile. Since ATI has not offered new drivers for TV Tuners since April, I doubt very much we will see any improvements in the near future. Personally, my next tuner (if I decide to get one) will probably be one of the Hauppage varieties. I do believe ATI TV Tuners will become yesterdays hardware. A crying shame. Hell, I've still got a working 8500DV AIW and a 9800 AIW that only work on XP, and 2 HD 650 PCI cards which will not display Analog and HD on the same frequency on any operating system. Designed obsolesence. The Beat Goes On!
 
Last edited:
cromwell said:
The Diamond MM Support site only offers drivers for their 750 cards dated 5/10 so they must be the ATI Cat 10-4 drivers or a close facsimile. Since ATI has not offered new drivers for TV Tuners since April, I doubt very much we will see any improvements in the near future. Personally, my next tuner (if I decide to get one) will probably be one of the Hauppage varieties. I do believe ATI TV Tuners will become yesterdays hardware. A crying shame. Hell, I've still got a working 8500DV AIW and a 9800 AIW that only work on XP, and 2 HD 650 PCI cards which will not display Analog and HD on the same frequency on any operating system. Designed obsolesence. The Beat Goes On!
Click to expand...
Just happened to catch this post. Catch me up are you still having trouble? I've forgotten whether you have/had the TV wonder 650 PCI or PCI-E? Or USB or ? Nevermind I went back and found your thread and refreshed my memory. You have the PCI card and Vista is unable to detect the second tuner (same card I bought two of at microcenter.) Are you hoping that you will be getting drivers for Vista that allow it to see both tuners? Because that is a problem with Vista not ATI unfortunately.

I've been very happy when using the Catalyst 9.3 Vista drivers with both Vista & Windows 7. I have to re-do my Vista system so I might try the latest TV wonder drivers when I do just to see if I can get dual tuning out of it using the TV Wonder 650 PCI-E card or whether I still need to use the 9.3 drivers.

I got side tracked away for last while (partly with summer) but since my W7 TV Wonder 650 PCI-e is working fine with the 9.3 TV wonder Vista drivers I've been playing with my ASUS PCI tuner card and my Diamond TV wonder 650 PCI cards with ArcSoft's TotalMedia 3.5... Not ready for primetime (UNLESS you are stuck using XP).

------
I still think that these cards have there place - for example in the following set up. I am MOST excited by the Ceton InfiniTV 4 MOCUR - I went off to see if anything had changed in the twice rollout dates and low & behold it's out, albeit in LIMITED numbers so far. It's $399.99 but for the equivalent of four Set Top Boxes. The HD homerun if it comes in with 3 cablecard tuners for $250 would steal the show.
So the current 650's or 750's can be used for NTSC / or to pick up something that's available in Clear QAM to keep the other tuners free. Though 4 tuners does seem to pretty much cover even the biggest tv nut like me 8-)
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top