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    things will get very interesting if if the only way the 4090 wins over AMD is with fake frames

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      Originally posted by OverclockN' View Post
      I have a talented eye. DF should probably hire me on the side.

      If it turns out to be youtube compressions that oddly seems to only appear in DF's one particular video, I'm ok with that. I'm not exactly going to complain about great image quality at 120fps.

      We'll see what's what soon. It'll be exciting either way. I'm all for this tech and not exactly going to argue against it, but I'm not going to pretend I don't see downsides as well.
      You're right, this is too much like the DLSS discussion of the past.

      We'll just have to see for ourselves in the end. Hopefully it proves to be a worthwhile feature to have on rather than off.

      Comment


        Originally posted by bill dennison View Post
        things will get very interesting if if the only way the 4090 wins over AMD is with fake frames
        1. A 4090 will likely be king of the hill over whatever AMD brings.

        2. You said the same thing about DLSS 2.0 when AMD didn't have it, turns out you were wrong about that too and it proved to be very valuable, delivering 2x the performance of competing AMD products with very little loss/often better image quality. Now AMD has their own version because the underlying technology is sound.

        3. Don't make the same mistake with frame generation. Seems like this will deliver smooth gameplay at 4k with everything maxed. So you'll be suffering with cyberpunk and other future games on your 3080ti while 4080 and 4090 gamers enjoy a much better gameplay experience with everything maxed.

        Comment


          I just hope more games support all this stuff. It's a damn shame all games don't have DLSS. I have a big library of games of all types, and it's a teeny tiny amount of them that use DLSS.

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            Originally posted by Exposed View Post
            1. A 4090 will likely be king of the hill over whatever AMD brings.

            2. You said the same thing about DLSS 2.0 when AMD didn't have it, turns out you were wrong about that too and it proved to be very valuable, delivering 2x the performance of competing AMD products with very little loss/often better image quality. Now AMD has their own version because the underlying technology is sound.

            3. Don't make the same mistake with frame generation. Seems like this will deliver smooth gameplay at 4k with everything maxed. So you'll be suffering with cyberpunk and other future games on your 3080ti while 4080 and 4090 gamers enjoy a much better gameplay experience with everything maxed.


            not likely if it does work well as you think or maybe if not
            AMD will most likely have it working on my gtx 980, 1080 ti, 2080 ti and 3080 ti and most AMD cards in 6 months or less

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              Midrange for 1000$ equiv, you couldn't make that up.

              Fun part is, I'd buy it if it was 256 bit, principles be damned. It's too ridiculous though.

              I'm considering a boycott of my own, no nV laptops for my company, no nV recomendations, no 2nd hand buy etc. Sure it's worthless but hey, it's fun until AMD does the same, they don't have it anymore to stick it to nV anyway.

              I will go AMD though, 1st time in 10 years or sth, have enough nV cards for HBAO in old titles, and modern nV is all about optimizations instead of quality anyway. In few years, you turn on all the VRS DLSS 7 AF- at once and it's a soup heh.
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              Comment


                It does seem like the motion vectors help improve interpolation a lot.

                However, is the strange blur on the sidewalk and street in line with Spiderman's right hand a normal glitch (feature?) of the game's rendering, or is that created by the interpolation? Either way it looks weird to me.

                Judging from the comparison shots around the 27 minute mark, I'd say that it suffers from the same type of artifacts present with other frame interpolation methods (mostly related to things being occluded, so the algorithm doesn't know what to fill in with), they are just reduced by the motion vectors. That is not to say the feature is not useful--hell I like video frame interpolation even despite the not-so-uncommon artifacts--but I think it's overly optimistic to believe there will never be visible artifacts during game play. Especially in situations where the base frame rate is low so the frames are displayed longer, you're going to end up seeing them, even if it may still be worth the trade off.

                Also 30 FPS base is still going to be a miserable experience due to sluggish responsiveness, even if everything looks smoother. In the latency tests you can see that latency is never improved relative to standard DLSS2, even though the frame rate is "higher" with frame interpolation enabled. I think that is the biggest flaw in the concept, because in my mind the feature is only really useful in a small frame rate range. If you're already getting 120 FPS then things are smooth enough already, so why enable it? It just costs performance and introduces the possibility of artifacts (albeit probably not that noticeable at high frame rates) for no appreciable gain in smoothness. If you're only getting 30-45 FPS then game input is going to be too sluggish, and I'd rather turn down settings or get a faster card in order to get 60 FPS+. So, I see the feature only being really beneficial somewhere in the ~60-100 FPS range.

                Comment


                  How many frames ahead is a common game rendering these days? I would have thought none due to latency issues and fast refresh rate monitors.

                  But that would mean no second frame to interpolate between.
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                    Popping up on newegg.

                    https://www.newegg.com/p/pl?N=100007...eries&Tpk=4090

                    Of course no pre-orders.

                    Wonder if that MSI watercooled version is a good reliable version to get.

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by Exposed View Post
                      Wonder if that MSI watercooled version is a good reliable version to get.
                      Will try and make a play for it on Best Buy.

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by acroig View Post
                        Will try and make a play for it on Best Buy.
                        Founders edition?

                        What do people think of MSI in general? I know Gigabyte had a bad rap for GPU's in the past. ASUS is overpriced as always lol.

                        Comment


                          MSI is pretty solid. Typically their top end models are equivalent to other brands top end.
                          Originally posted by curio
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                            I'm leaning towards the air cooled MSI Suprim. Though I'm wondering where/how I would mount that water cooled version since it's just $50 more for a quieter, more cooled, potentially higher performing variant.

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by Exposed View Post
                              I'm leaning towards the air cooled MSI Suprim. Though I'm wondering where/how I would mount that water cooled version since it's just $50 more for a quieter, more cooled, potentially higher performing variant.
                              MSI Suppim bank

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by Exposed View Post
                                Founders edition?
                                The MSI Suprim Water.

                                Comment


                                  $2000 for the Asus ROG?
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                                  Comment


                                    Originally posted by DeathKnight View Post
                                    $2000 for the Asus ROG?
                                    and it looks like a boxcar

                                    Comment


                                      Originally posted by Exposed View Post
                                      I'm leaning towards the air cooled MSI Suprim. Though I'm wondering where/how I would mount that water cooled version since it's just $50 more for a quieter, more cooled, potentially higher performing variant.
                                      I got a 3090 Suprim last go around. The build quality was great on the board.

                                      I put a EKWB water block on the front and an EKWB active water cooled backplate on the back.

                                      The card ran at 75c~80c without the water cooling. It maxes out at 55c now.

                                      EDIT: That 55c is with benchmarking. Gaming usually stays below 50c.
                                      Last edited by andino; Sep 30, 2022, 06:15 PM.

                                      Comment


                                        Originally posted by andino View Post
                                        I got a 3090 Suprim last go around. The build quality was great on the board.

                                        I put a EKWB water block on the front and an EKWB active water cooled backplate on the back.

                                        The card ran at 75c~80c without the water cooling. It maxes out at 55c now.

                                        EDIT: That 55c is with benchmarking. Gaming usually stays below 50c.
                                        I'll admit I don't know too much about water cooling, I'll have to take a dive into these water cooled GPU's to see if it's worth the hassle over a simpler air cooled card.

                                        Comment


                                          4090 is ~60% faster than 3090 raw which kind of wonders how they calculate their Tflops

                                          https://videocardz.com/newz/geforce-...ench-cuda-test

                                          Reviewers should now have access to the press driver for RTX 4090 GPU, the soon-to-be-released Ada Lovelace flagship graphics card. This upgraded architecture brings 16384 CUDA cores (52% more than RTX 3090 Ti) and much higher clocks.

                                          NVIDIA was reluctant to share any raster workload performance, or any gaming benchmark that would not involve DLSS. As a result, we still do not know how much faster RTX 4090 can be than RTX 3090 Ti in normal synthetic tests. As it turns out, somebody has already tested the card with Geekbench CUDA benchmark, where the GPU scores 417713 points (Update: there is a new score with 424332 points as well).
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                                          Comment


                                            Originally posted by pax View Post
                                            4090 is ~60% faster than 3090 raw which kind of wonders how they calculate their Tflops

                                            https://videocardz.com/newz/geforce-...ench-cuda-test
                                            If that is true then it's 10% faster than the 3090 was vs the 2080TI. Pretty good raster performance and on par with the 1080TI performance leap while having 2X RT and DLSS throughput over last gen on top of it all.

                                            Comment


                                              Originally posted by SIrPauly View Post
                                              It's not perfect but in many games it is a fidelity jump over 4k native+Taa due to how good or poor the Taa implementation is. I really checked out Dlss in conjunction with DLDSR and really helps minimize remaining artifacts but one needs powerful hardware.
                                              I'm trying the DLDSR plus DLSS in Rise of the Tomb Raider. Impressive so far.

                                              Good results in the benchmark so maybe I can push the setting for DLSS from Balanced to Quality?
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                                                Originally posted by NIGELG View Post
                                                I'm trying the DLDSR plus DLSS in Rise of the Tomb Raider. Impressive so far.

                                                Good results in the benchmark so maybe I can push the setting for DLSS from Balanced to Quality?
                                                Yeah, try it! Do you notice IQ issues with balanced?

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                                                  Originally posted by acroig View Post
                                                  Yeah, try it! Do you notice IQ issues with balanced?
                                                  Not too much. Some odd shimmering in places or texture pop in.
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                                                    Originally posted by NIGELG View Post
                                                    Not too much. Some odd shimmering in places or texture pop in.
                                                    Ok, got it.

                                                    Comment


                                                      Originally posted by Exposed View Post
                                                      I'll admit I don't know too much about water cooling, I'll have to take a dive into these water cooled GPU's to see if it's worth the hassle over a simpler air cooled card.
                                                      Do you like a quiet and cool card?

                                                      I did the AIO hybrid cards from EVGA since the 980ti's. Had 980ti's, 1080ti's, and 2080 super hybrids. They are all pretty good at cooling. The 2080's needed a bigger rad but you get what you get. They still have some fan noise though.

                                                      With the 3090 I went full custom loop. It's much quieter and cools a whole lot better than the AIOs. The downside is that you have to get new water blocks after every update. IMO, it's not that bad of a price to pay as you get near quiet gaming. I don't like playing video games when my computer sounds like a hair dryer.

                                                      Comment


                                                        Considering most AIO systems for GPUs are still stuck on a single 360rad, I'd pass. Thin 360 rad with a weak pump is just not enough for 450watts.

                                                        Custom loop >>>>>
                                                        Originally posted by curio
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                                                          4090 Strix Mother Card

                                                          Comment


                                                            Yeah, ppl with SFF builds will have a rough time with this gen.

                                                            I guess you technically can do an sff build with watercooling, but it won't be a quiet one.

                                                            Comment


                                                              Originally posted by NIGELG View Post
                                                              I'm trying the DLDSR plus DLSS in Rise of the Tomb Raider. Impressive so far.

                                                              Good results in the benchmark so maybe I can push the setting for DLSS from Balanced to Quality?
                                                              Trying will not hurt -- give it a try! Where DLDSR shines is with a 4K monitor from a fidelity point of view -- really helps to minimize the remaining artifacts.


                                                              Edit:

                                                              Here is Rise of the Tomb Raider with DLDSR/Dlss at 5K

                                                              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yC9pk1kx0OA&t=189s
                                                              Last edited by SIrPauly; Oct 1, 2022, 03:33 PM.
                                                              Really enjoy 3d gaming flexibility; a gamer's best friend!

                                                              Comment


                                                                Really enjoy reading the White Papers:

                                                                https://images.nvidia.com/aem-dam/So...chitecture.pdf
                                                                Really enjoy 3d gaming flexibility; a gamer's best friend!

                                                                Comment


                                                                  NVIDIA Updates Hopper H100 Datacenter GPU FP32 Performance from 60 to 67 TFLOPS

                                                                  That’s a 11.7% jump (rounded to the nearest tenth).

                                                                  NVIDIA is now displaying more accurate single-precision and double precision performance for its newest H100 GPU. The FP64 has increased from 30 TFLOPS to 34, while FP32 has been updated from 60 to 67 TFLOPs.

                                                                  What this essentially means that the GPU equipped with 16896 CUDA cores will have higher GPU clock than previously reported. Not 1775 MHz, but at least 1982 MHz. The GH100 GPU features the same TSMC N4 custom process that Ada Lovelace architecture does, so there was definitely some room for improvement.

                                                                  The Tensor Core accelerated compute numbers, for INT8, FP8, FP16, BFLOT16 have been updated as well, showing slightly lower estimates. Just a reminder that those are not raw compute performance numbers, but boosted through sparsity.


                                                                  Sources: VideoCardz.com, NVIDIA

                                                                  Comment


                                                                    Some benchmarks (real/fake ??)
                                                                    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQRm...=MikeBenchmark

                                                                    (vs = 3090 Ti); most benchies at 1440p

                                                                    Cyberpunk 92 vs 60
                                                                    AC Valhalla 112 vs 71
                                                                    RDR 2 123 vs 89
                                                                    WD Legion 92 vs 68
                                                                    God of war 119 vs 79 (4K)

                                                                    so about 50% as fast in most cases
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                                                                      That would suggest that raster performance is up there.

                                                                      Posted the link on Discord Rage, TY.

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                                                                        Is this expected to be a paper launch? I've got $1600 just burning a hole in my pocket.

                                                                        Comment


                                                                          Originally posted by Dungeoncrawler View Post
                                                                          Is this expected to be a paper launch? I've got $1600 just burning a hole in my pocket.
                                                                          Nascar has the same problem you do.

                                                                          Comment


                                                                            Originally posted by Dungeoncrawler View Post
                                                                            Is this expected to be a paper launch? I've got $1600 just burning a hole in my pocket.
                                                                            Do you even 4k, brah?
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                                                                            Comment


                                                                              hope i can get 5 to 10 for resale

                                                                              Comment


                                                                                Originally posted by Dungeoncrawler View Post
                                                                                Is this expected to be a paper launch? I've got $1600 just burning a hole in my pocket.
                                                                                I don't think so. Local dealers (zotac and palit) are all set to ship cards and are only held back by Nvidia stipulated shipping dates. And I am talking about a really, really small market for high end cards that number in 100s. Asus and GB (again local) are promising early November shipping.

                                                                                I am sure things are bound to be better in larger markets.

                                                                                ...zotac cards do look interesting...
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                                                                                  Assuming nV has been racking up cards since August and GPU mining is dead then the outlook is much better.

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