Official VR Headset discussion

[Nagorak]

Reverb doesn't seem to use lighthouse tracking so it might be a big pain in the butt getting the knuckles to work with it. I don't really know though, so we'll see.

I tried using Vive Wands with WMR in the past and it didn't work that well. There is tracking drift between the two systems: they don't seem to track movement with exactly the same scale, so at least in a larger room they don't stay synced (my play space is 3x4m and at either end the controllers are like 8 inches off their actual position). I suppose, in a smaller room the drift may be small enough to be less obvious.

Still, based on my poor experience and the overall clunkiness of trying to set it up, I would honestly not recommend trying to mix tracking systems, at least not until some sort of official system is devised (which probably won't happen).

That being said, if these WMR controllers have been redesigned to be closer to Oculus Touch then I don't know that they'd be that big of a step down from the Knuckles. I've honestly been rather underwhelmed by my Knuckles. Not saying they're bad (other than having poor durability) but they also weren't as great as they were hyped up to be. The finger tracking is cool, but the ergonomics of the button layout isn't that good due to the inclusion of the unnecessary vestigial touch pad (which is too small to really work that well).

[SirBaron]

It's a miracle!

I've tested and it's true works on 1660ti and updwards, (anything that has the Turing decoding/encoding hardware).

Dark scenes etc no longer have the compression artifacts, and everything looks much better now .

(copied and pasted for those who don't read the other thread )

[Mangler]

The g2 is really tempting, **** is immersive as **** on a rift s, but some extra sharpness would be really nice.

[SirBaron]

I will wait for a Quest 2, and not that rumoured white quest which looks like a cheaper version.

[AllexxisF1]

I'm going to wait for the Quest 2, but the quality of that Reverb G2 is amazeballz.

That is a whopping increase in clarity.

[Shapeshifter]

https://www.reddit.com/r/HPReverb/comments/hy64ez/new_german_video/

Dot of the VR-Legion (German site) was able to test the G2 (and many other headsets) at Sebastian’s place. As not everybody is able to speak German, I thought I could write down some of his impressions. I will focus on the G2 stuff for obvious reasons, the vid is over 2 hours long, so I probably missed something, as I will skip parts I personally find boring.



For my English speaking friends:

Dot is also writing over VR Stuff on Gamestar, which is the biggest German gaming site. Personally he is playing on an index right now but has tried a lot of VR headsets.

If you want to watch it on you own, may be with subtitles: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0Ph8Hdmplc



Sorry this is not perfect formatted; English is not my native language and I am writing this down while watching the video, so I will definitely repeat myself.



First impression / comfort:

- As comfortable as the index but lighter (and smaller), which is great

- The “knob” for adjusting the headset is missed by both.

- The speakers are located a little higher (sound is still great)





Controller (just haptics obviously):

- Still “meh” compared too index

- Not impressed, but should work

- Way better than the old wmr controller (which get trashed a few times during the video)





Picture quality / in game:

- Some quirks because of it being a “pre production modell”

- Super sharp picture, sharpest he has tried yet (he had a pimax 5k+ and many others before)

- Great colours (very impressive for LCD). First impression: Better than index, but not OLED. Blacks are still clearly better on the quest.

- Great for reading (“like printed”)! He says he would be able to read books with this.

- Was not seeing SDE in his first game (In death), after looking carefully he found it, nothing to worry about anymore.

- Good for looking in the distance.

- You recognize bad textures.

- You see details you didn’t recognize before

- Clearly better than index. Colours, black levels and sharpness (also better than cosmos).

- He is generally very impressed by the picture quality.

- FOV a little smaller than index when dialed in. He called it “index niveau”. Both say they don’t really recognize a difference while playing, for both the index is/was their daily driver.

- Alyx looks great on the G2: “Index -> G2 = 720p -> WQHD”

- First time he feels like a VR-headset is like a good monitor (regarding picture quality in the beatsaber menu)





Index comparison summary:

- Better colours

- Better sharpness

- Should be same sound (final drivers were missing)

- Same FOV (what really surprised him…and me too to be honest)

- Same comfort (but sadly for him no adjustment knob). Not a problem if you are using it alone, but if you are sharing a lot.



Comparisons with pimax 8kx (preproduction modell):

- He was underwhelmed by the (preproduction modell of the) pimax 8kx

- Worse colours than G2

- Distortions

- Something is off, like wearing wrong glasses

- Picture quality of the G2 is better

- G2 is sharper, way better for reading.

- A lot more complains. Summary: Would not buy it



Final discussion:

- After testing all headsets, he was very impressed with the G2, better all Pimax headsets (including 8kx preproduction and 8k+)and STARVR 1.

- Tracking is okay (he does not like WMR tracking), improved a lot, still obviously not on lighthouse level.

- Long cable (6 m).

- Everything worked great on a nvidia 2070 and looked great.

- Both say “best VR-hardware 2020” if the preproduction quirks are solved (which should not be too hard)

- Both say “go for preorder” (Dot is more of a careful guy)

- Rift S is no competition

- G2 is better than index (picture quality), but index tracking is supreme and the knuckles are the best controllers. Customers have to choose, what is more important too them.

- Pimax 8kx (preproduction) was underwhelming. Was also not happy with 8k+



Greetings from Germany

Chris

german write up as well

https://vr-legion.de/hot/unser-erster-blick-auf-die-hp-reverb-g2-preview-bei-mrtv/

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[Nagorak]

The only thing about the G2 is it's unfortunate it's still only 4 cameras. The tracking on the Rift S was amazing. It was almost impossible to lose tracking on the controllers except obviously if they were behind you. But the poor quality screen on the S really held it back.

The two big minuses of the G2 in my eyes are not enough cameras to get 100% frontal coverage (WMR tracking works well as long as you don't move the controller out of the camera FOV), and no wireless adapter. Granted with those high res screens wireless would be a challenge, but I'll accept a worse screen to not be wired in room scale games. For seated it doesn't matter since the cord isn't really a problem there. I'm thinking about getting the G2 for seated games but I'm on the fence about it. I'm not sure that I have enough use for it to justify the purchase, especially since I already have an O+ for those situations.

[AllexxisF1]

There have been more leaked pictures of the Oculus 2 or the Oculus Lite, whatever it's going to be.

Looks like we'll know on September 15th.

[Exposed]

Unfortunately I don't think the September 15th reveal will be for a "Rift 2", it'll be another self contained headset with a mobile SOC. For PC games a G2 still seems the way to go.

https://uploadvr.com/oculus-quest-2-everything-we-know/

[Shapeshifter]

The only thing about the G2 is it's unfortunate it's still only 4 cameras. The tracking on the Rift S was amazing. It was almost impossible to lose tracking on the controllers except obviously if they were behind you. But the poor quality screen on the S really held it back.

The two big minuses of the G2 in my eyes are not enough cameras to get 100% frontal coverage (WMR tracking works well as long as you don't move the controller out of the camera FOV), and no wireless adapter. Granted with those high res screens wireless would be a challenge, but I'll accept a worse screen to not be wired in room scale games. For seated it doesn't matter since the cord isn't really a problem there. I'm thinking about getting the G2 for seated games but I'm on the fence about it. I'm not sure that I have enough use for it to justify the purchase, especially since I already have an O+ for those situations.

if you have the $ I guess one could always do this.

[yt]r_SepHooREo[/yt]

[Exposed]

Direct visual comparison between the G2 and Rift S / Index.

Quite a difference in clarity.

Jump to 6:30 to see the direct comparisons.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPsIlim57DQ

[Nagorak]

Yeah the G2 is pretty impressive. It's still blurry compared to RL but it's a lot closer than the Rift S and Index. The Rift S looks pretty terrible. It's unfortunate Oculus went with that low res screen. The Valve Index actually isn't that bad, but not quite as clear (and that probably more or less goes for Vive Cosmos/Pro since they have similar resolution).

[Nagorak]

I went ahead and pre-ordered the G2. I'm still a little on the fence about it because it certainly isn't cheap. But I guess VR is one of my few expensive hobbies and there are some aspects of the O+ I am not satisfied with, namely that the comfort level is not that good. Even with a replacement face mask from VR Cover, which is a lot more comfortable, it's still a pretty heavy headset so wearing it for longer periods is not that fun.

I also discovered when playing Board Game Simulator in VR that you really notice the lack of resolution. So, I don't know, probably an extravagant purchase, but it's not like I spend money on too many other things, so it is what it is.

[Destroy]

I'd like to get a G2 but can't see it as enough of an upgrade from my Reverb.

[Shapeshifter]

[yt]QZvPnd_xTBs[/yt]

[Destroy]

Jeez, the Reverb G2 blows the other 2 headsets out of the water.

I didn't realize the G2 would be THAT much better.

Now I'd like to see a Reverb vs G2 comparison.

[OverclockN']

Yeah, that G2 is stunning. I think I'm sold...but...

It won't work with the Index knuckle controller things will it? I believe it's two different techs. Any headset not working with those controllers is an automatic no for me. Those things are amazing.

How is anyone going to be able to drive that headset? It would struggle to run even with an upcoming 3080Ti I'd bet, unless you turn down all the settings.

Anyone know if DLSS 2.0 is going to be a thing for VR games?

[CyanBlues]

you can probably hack the g2 to work with the index, but it probably won't work too well

[SirBaron]

Doesn't the G2 also use the same method as Oculus Camera built into headset for controller tracking? Not sure that'd work with Index controllers.

[Destroy]

It won't work with the Index knuckle controller things will it?

Supposedly, it easily works with the Index controllers!!!

HOW TO USE THE HP REVERB G2 WITH INDEX CONTROLLERS - It's SO Simple! The MRTV Tutorial!
[yt]r_SepHooREo[/yt]

[Shapeshifter]

perhaps one day another headset dev like samsung will have a new WMR headset with new even better controllers that are backwards compatible as well, much like the G2's will work with any old WMR headset.

[Trunks0]

Supposedly, it easily works with the Index controllers!!!

HOW TO USE THE HP REVERB G2 WITH INDEX CONTROLLERS - It's SO Simple! The MRTV Tutorial!
[yt]r_SepHooREo[/yt]

Yea but I've read it's a little glichy when you do that. I'd be hesitant to spend the amount of money needed to make a hybrid setup. If you already had it though, then why not.

[CyanBlues]

Looks like DLSS is coming to VR via the new Nvidia RTX 3k Series, if its implemented well enough, I think I'll upgrade my 1080ti for 3080

https://www.reddit.com/r/nvidia/comments/ilhao8/nvidia_rtx_30series_you_asked_we_answered/

What kind of advancements can we expect from DLSS? Most people were expecting a DLSS 3.0, or, at the very least, something like DLSS 2.1. Are you going to keep improving DLSS and offer support for more games while maintaining the same version?

DLSS SDK 2.1 is out and it includes three updates:
- New ultra performance mode for 8K gaming. Delivers 8K gaming on GeForce RTX 3090 with a new 9x scaling option.
- VR support. DLSS is now supported for VR titles.
- Dynamic resolution support. The input buffer can change dimensions from frame to frame while the output size remains fixed. If the rendering engine supports dynamic resolution, DLSS can be used to perform the required upscale to the display resolution.

[Nagorak]

That's good news. I guess the only issue is whether it has to be implemented by developers, because unfortunately that means any older titles aren't going to get it.

[Destroy]

That's good news. I guess the only issue is whether it has to be implemented by developers, because unfortunately that means any older titles aren't going to get it.

Yup. If it can"t be automatically applied to any game, its mostly useless.

[CyanBlues]

i do wonder how it will be done though since both images are slight different, will dllss look slightly different per image, if so it'll be jarring

[Nascar24]

Quest 2 up for preorder.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1590536-REG/oculus_301_00350_01_quest_2_all_in_one_vr.html

I wont be getting it because there is just plain out to many toys to buy this year and I have the original Quest already

[Nagorak]

i do wonder how it will be done though since both images are slight different, will dllss look slightly different per image, if so it'll be jarring

I think your eyes/brain will probably interpolate the two images so that it won't be that noticeable, presuming the implementation isn't severely flawed somehow.

[Trunks0]

Quest 2 up for preorder.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1590536-REG/oculus_301_00350_01_quest_2_all_in_one_vr.html

I wont be getting it because there is just plain out to many toys to buy this year and I have the original Quest already

I was kinda disappointed by it? I was expecting a bigger leap, but it is more powerful which is welcome and it got a minor resolution bump. But it's the same same controllers, same battery life, no "new" features revealed yet and it's cheaper. Not much to hate, just... I expected more? Like eye tracking, wider FOV, auto PID adjustment, controllers with some extra functionality or something *shrug*

[CyanBlues]

speaking of eye tracking, hp reverb 2 is suppose to have an eye tracking version. Still, hopefully eye tracking in vr will come sooner then later, would help a lot with graphics fidelity

[Exposed]

Review: We do not recommend the $299 Oculus Quest 2 as your next VR system

https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2020/09/review-we-do-not-recommend-the-299-oculus-quest-2-as-your-next-vr-system/

[Nascar24]

Well looks like they did a bang up job at making it worse, not sure how that happens when you know all the different issues of the first and it doesn’t sound like they fixed the biggest complaint, the weight and pressure on your face.

[Destroy]

Review: We do not recommend the $299 Oculus Quest 2 as your next VR system
https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2020/...ext-vr-system/

The masses won't care.
Cheap price and cordless is all Facebook thinks they will see and sadly they are right.

[AllexxisF1]

That writer eviscerated that new Oculus unit and it looks for good measure. That HP Reverb G2 is looking better and better (VR Sim flying).

[Arrowhead]

Anything on the horizon worthy of an upgrade from a Vive Pro paired with index controllers? All I see is garbage.

[Nagorak]

Anything on the horizon worthy of an upgrade from a Vive Pro paired with index controllers? All I see is garbage.

Reverb 2 has much higher res and the controllers are Rift-like. But I'd probably just grab a wireless adapter for your Pro if you haven't already. It improves play a lot in my experience. I'd take a wireless VR experience most times over higher res, except obviously with seated games.

[Arrowhead]

Reverb 2 has much higher res and the controllers are Rift-like. But I'd probably just grab a wireless adapter for your Pro if you haven't already. It improves play a lot in my experience. I'd take a wireless VR experience most times over higher res, except obviously with seated games.

I like some of what I see with the Reverb 2 except the no lighthouse tracking and the procedure to get the index controllers working with it seems like a PITA. So one step forward, two steps back is no deal for me. The wires don't bother me that much. I just hope someone comes up with a real upgrade in the foreseeable future which means higher res OLED display with a wider field of view. Preferably HTC or Valve since they'd certainly use the lighthouse tracking method which is still superior.

[Trunks0]

I like some of what I see with the Reverb 2 except the no lighthouse tracking and the procedure to get the index controllers working with it seems like a PITA. So one step forward, two steps back is no deal for me. The wires don't bother me that much. I just hope someone comes up with a real upgrade in the foreseeable future which means higher res OLED display with a wider field of view. Preferably HTC or Valve since they'd certainly use the lighthouse tracking method which is still superior.

I'm betting the next Index will nail it. Right now it's two biggest problems are Durability and Price. If they can bring the reliability of the hardware up and the price down I would be all over it.

Also External and Inside-out tracking would be ideal. Get the finer control of the inside-out and the 360 degree's of tracking from external.

[CyanBlues]

Official Information for HP Reverb 2, found on reddit.

https://old.reddit.com/r/HPReverb/comments/iz3jj9/amaship_date/

Hi folks,
Happy 3rd day of Fall!
Firstly a quick note on why we have been quiet on giving an official release date outside of “Fall 2020”. Our priority is delivering the best immersive experience, a high-quality product, and giving you information that can be trusted. As we go through development ship dates can shift by a few days and sometimes weeks, and nothing is more frustrating than being told the wrong date! We have been focusing on testing and verifying the quality of the devices, and I am happy that today we have reached the point where we feel confident in our ship date. Devices will begin shipping to preorder resellers the second half of October, and we expect units to begin reaching your hands the beginning of November.
One reason there has been such a long period between previews and product ship, is that those units were very early prototypes. Normally we would never send out such early prototypes, the goal with this choice was to get feedback from you and press on what we should change. As such, here are some of the changes that came directly from your feedback:
· Updated lenses
o Contrary to the rumors on here of us cheapening the lenses, we have not found a way to make the lenses cheaper, we all wish we had of course!
o To pull back the curtain a bit, we start out with a theoretical goal for how the lenses should perform, and then we work on getting mass production methods to match that theoretical goal. No one public saw the first version of the lenses as they were terrible, the second version held major improvements and we felt were good enough to show press in order to give you confidence to preorder.
o We then had to make a decision, spend time and money to go after a third revision of the lenses or ship what was already getting great feedback. We love VR and our first priority is giving you the best immersive experience, so of course we chose to spend the time and money (yes, this new revision of lenses cost us money). Boy are we glad we did! Big reduction in Fresnel ring reflections and improved clarity.
· Controllers
o Feedback was mostly positive with one big issue, no one could tell the menu and windows button apart by feel. The menu button is now domed so that you can tell by feel. It makes for a great button to use for changing weapons in Half Life Alyx.
· USB-C to A adapter
o After we did wide distributions of test units internally, the biggest out of box blocker was our cable terminating in type-c.
o Too many people were forced to purchase type-A to type-C adapters, a customer shouldn’t have to buy an adapter to make their new device work.
o In addition to the full size to mini DisplayPort adapter we are also including a type-a to type-c adapter in box. This costs us money, but it is the right choice.
· Brightness
o Some of the loudest feedback has been about brightness. Key to this discussion is the topic of backlight persistence, which is a measure of what % of each frame the backlight is turned on for. The brightness for a set pair of optics comes down to how long your backlight persistence is, and how bright you can drive your panel during that time.
o Additionally the lower your persistence, the less display smear you get when you move your head.
o The choice came down to longer persistence and a brighter image, or lower persistence and a dimmer image. We did not like this choice and went back to the drawing board to improve how bright we can drive the backlight.
o The tradeoff is increased power draw; the device can no longer draw enough power over USB-C alone. Reverb G2 will require the included power adapter to be plugged in to the wall to function, and in return you get the best visual experience we can deliver.
· Non-motherboard USB
o This will not be a surprise to VR veterans, we have found a significant number of USB ports that aren’t direct from the CPU/motherboard to cause USB issues on VR headsets. Think PCI add in cards or USB ports on graphics cards. Whatever VR headset you use, we highly suggest using the ports on your motherboard that come from the CPU USB controller.
I want to thank all of our partners, testers, customers, and press for their outspoken feedback during Reverb G2’s public development. We run a lean operation and this feedback provides invaluable ammo for us to correctly allocate our resources and time on improving the product.
If I had to give a personal favorite feature of Reverb G2 that I am excited for you all to try, I would have to highlight comfort. With previous devices I wanted them off my face after about two hours, my eyes and face would be tired. With Reverb G2 I knock out 4 hour sessions and come out feeling fresh! The Valve designed optics, mechanical IPD, new headband and face gasket truly spoil when it comes to comfort.
And we will stick around for an hour or so answering questions.

[Nagorak]

· Brightness
o Some of the loudest feedback has been about brightness. Key to this discussion is the topic of backlight persistence, which is a measure of what % of each frame the backlight is turned on for. The brightness for a set pair of optics comes down to how long your backlight persistence is, and how bright you can drive your panel during that time.
o Additionally the lower your persistence, the less display smear you get when you move your head.
o The choice came down to longer persistence and a brighter image, or lower persistence and a dimmer image. We did not like this choice and went back to the drawing board to improve how bright we can drive the backlight.
o The tradeoff is increased power draw; the device can no longer draw enough power over USB-C alone. Reverb G2 will require the included power adapter to be plugged in to the wall to function, and in return you get the best visual experience we can deliver.

Erm...it requires an external power connection?!! That seems bad to me. I hope it's running 5v so we can possibly convert back to USB and just use a second USB port.

I guess it's not a deal breaker, but having to plug in external power in addition to USB and DP is certainly an added annoyance. There are some situations where a computer's USB and video ports are easily accessible, but where you have to crawl under the desk to plug in power. Power outlets often can be quite a few feet away from the computer's ports. And it's going to be an added hassle to move the headset from one computer/room to another if we have to pull out a power adapter in addition.