Official VR Headset discussion

[Exposed]

I'm disappointed with Skyrim VR. Everything looks flat. There is absolutely no kind of parallax occlusion mapping. That means road textures and walls look flat like wallpaper in VR.

Huge immersion drawback. I don't remember it being this bad when playing original Skyrim in 3d Vision.

[jjjayb]

Facebook showed some pretty cool stuff from their prototype Rift today. 140° FOV and variable focus display.

[yt]FM7aviAhxG4[/yt]

[Destroy]

^^^^About time, yay for eye glass wearers!!

[Exposed]

The Samsung Odyssey I have already fits glasses perfectly. I no longer have to rely on contacts like I did with the Rift. It's also strange I never experienced that focus issue they're talking about. Playing games I can bring notes and clipboards close to my face and read them fine. It seems they are inventing problems to find a solution for, when they should just get their next gen out ASAP with a higher resolution display. They're already behind Vive and Samsung in this regard.

[logical]

^^^^About time, yay for eye glass wearers!!

Thats not going to help people who need glasses. If you cant see through the thing now you wont be able to see after this varial focus thing. This is just lens blur If you need glasses youre probably still going to need a glasses kit.

[Exposed]

That variable focus might be beneficial for people with Presbyopia.

Seems like a waste of resources though and just adds unneeded complexity and moving parts on an already heft headset. The Rift with a 4k pixel density headset (games don't need to run at 4k, just needs the pixel density to elliminate the screen door effect, visible wall of pixels) is a much more needed product than this feature they're trying to peddle. It's as if Facebook doesn't have a clue on how to take Rift to the next level.

[andino]

I'm disappointed with Skyrim VR. Everything looks flat. There is absolutely no kind of parallax occlusion mapping. That means road textures and walls look flat like wallpaper in VR.

Huge immersion drawback. I don't remember it being this bad when playing original Skyrim in 3d Vision.

Skyrim in 3D Vision had some pretty bad shader issues.

Also, I am not having that problem at all. Wood grain even pops out. What VR are you using and what are your settings? Are you using any mods?

[Exposed]

I started with plain vanilla, but installed a set of mods I listed in the Skyrim VR PC Gaming thread. Game looks much better now. SMIM helped alot.

There's no parallex occlusion mapping which is what gives 2D textures a sense of depth. The original Skyrim had it with ENB and it worked well with 3D Vision. Those shader problems you mentioned were fixed by the 3D Vision community (Helix Mod) to where original Skyrim with 3D Vision was perfect. The road textures in 3D Vision looked like they had actual cobblestones on them, with incredible depth even though they were flat 2d textures. Without parallax occlusion mapping in 3D, the road/wall textures look flat....like wallpaper.

I made a thread on reddit in the VR section, they knew what I was talking about. There's no 3d friendly parallax occlusion mapping since Skyrim SE.

https://www.reddit.com/r/skyrimvr/comments/8gbxvv/why_is_everything_so_flat_like_wallpaper_no/

Playing on a Samsung Odyssey.

[Exposed]

What I'm talking about. Before/after parallax occlusion mapping. Keep in mind these are the SAME textures.









You can imagine how much better this looks in 3D (3D Vision), and now you should understand why I was disappointed with plain Skyrim VR (and what you've been missing).

[Nagorak]

- Had to uninstall Oculus Home. It kept trying to start up when using any Steam VR game.

You don't have to uninstall Oculus Home, instead just go into your Services and set the Oculus stuff to only start up manually. Then when you want to use the Rift, just start the service (you can create a batch file to do it). Otherwise it's disabled and won't fire up.

[andino]

I was going to suggest SMIM.

I see what you mean too. It does look a lot nicer.

[Exposed]

I was going to suggest SMIM.

I see what you mean too. It does look a lot nicer.

Yeah SMIM made the biggest difference just by itelf.

In plain vanilla Skyrim VR, the wooden posts with ropes around them are flat single textures. Really ruins immersion in 3D.

SMIM makes the ropes their own mesh, so in VR it actually looks like a rope tied around a post, not a flat texture of it. One of many examples.

There's more mods I need to check out.

[andino]

I bought the game and spent the next 3 days adding mods.

Then I restarted from my save and play about an hour or two a night.

It's a great game.

[CyanBlues]

I bought the game and spent the next 3 days adding mods.

Then I restarted from my save and play about an hour or two a night.

It's a great game.

lol i played about an hour, holding off till i have time to add mods

[delirium121]

skyrim killed this thread......

[OverclockN']

skyrim killed this thread......

Pretty sure lack of anything new killed this thread.


Anyone seen any new info on upcoming 4k headsets? Waiting for another major resolution bump before diving in.

[delirium121]

Pretty sure lack of anything new killed this thread.


Anyone seen any new info on upcoming 4k headsets? Waiting for another major resolution bump before diving in.

unless your running 2x 1180ti's you probably want to steer clear of a 4k set for anything but videos.

[OverclockN']

unless your running 2x 1180ti's you probably want to steer clear of a 4k set for anything but videos.

Well sure, everyone knows what it takes to run it at this point. But that's still the point where I'll jump in...a good resolution bump. So it doesn't change anything.

[delirium121]

actually upscaling would be useful though via the headset itself, e.g. 4K TV upscaling DVD.

Fingers crossed Oculus pulls out all the stops and announces CV2 (with inside out tracking & improved lenses and higher resolution screens).

[Nagorak]

unless your running 2x 1180ti's you probably want to steer clear of a 4k set for anything but videos.

You could actually just run it at less than native resolution. In theory it would still be an improvement in that case since it would almost eliminate the screen door effect. Even with the Vive Pro the SDE is a lot better than with the Vive. It's still there but much less noticeable.

Personally I'm not interested in any headset that doesn't have wireless capability though. Having gone back to dealing with the wire again due to the Vive Pro and also when using my Oculus Rift (my Vive has a TP Cast), I now find it extremely annoying. Even in slow-paced games the wire eventually ends up wrapping around your leg and getting hooked and then you have to try to untangle yourself. In fast paced games where you're moving around a lot (Space Pirate Trainer), or games where you spin around a lot I don't even consider using anything other than the Vive, despite its lower resolution.

I actually thought about trying out the Samsung Odyssey since it is so much cheaper than the Vive Pro, for basically the same resolution. But once I discovered that no wireless option was going to be available for it, I promptly lost interest. That being said, those looking into getting their first HMD and don't care about being wired might want to consider the Odyssey. It's basically the same price as the Vive but has the resolution of the Vive Pro. Controller tracking is reportedly not quite as good, but in reviews it seems like it still works pretty well.

[Nagorak]

On another note, I am really eager for the Valve Knuckles controllers to come out. Since they appear to be a lot more comparable with the Oculus Touch controllers, I might just ditch the Rift once I have the Knuckles and simply play Oculus exclusives using Revive on the Vive Pro. That way I get the benefit of wireless, higher resolution and also light ergonomic controllers.

[delirium121]

On another note, I am really eager for the Valve Knuckles controllers to come out. Since they appear to be a lot more comparable with the Oculus Touch controllers, I might just ditch the Rift once I have the Knuckles and simply play Oculus exclusives using Revive on the Vive Pro. That way I get the benefit of wireless, higher resolution and also light ergonomic controllers.

I had high hopes for knuckles, but the single trigger?!? Just why.

[Nagorak]

I had high hopes for knuckles, but the single trigger?!? Just why.

I'm not sure I exactly understand what you mean? Do you mean that it has no "grip button"? If so, I think might be because the capacitive sensors are supposed to be able to sense if you've "gripped" the controller, since with the knuckles you can literally open your hand when you want to "drop" something.

Either way, it has to be a decent step up from the heavy and bulky Vive wands.

[delirium121]

I'm not sure I exactly understand what you mean? Do you mean that it has no "grip button"? If so, I think might be because the capacitive sensors are supposed to be able to sense if you've "gripped" the controller, since with the knuckles you can literally open your hand when you want to "drop" something.

Either way, it has to be a decent step up from the heavy and bulky Vive wands.

I meant it's missing a second trigger function button, e.g. xbox and PS controllers shoulder buttons.

a.The twin trigger function works extremely well on touch controllers.
b. Bear in mind how many controls (functions) are available on xbox and PS controller.

these things just need to be handed and a full set of functions added (which production wise would be a minimal cost, not mention leftie's would rejoice).

C. lack of function limits creative options for dev's.

[Seyiji]

I meant it's missing a second trigger function button, e.g. xbox and PS controllers shoulder buttons.

a.The twin trigger function works extremely well on touch controllers.
b. Bear in mind how many controls (functions) are available on xbox and PS controller.

these things just need to be handed and a full set of functions added (which production wise would be a minimal cost, not mention leftie's would rejoice).

C. lack of function limits creative options for dev's.

Wouldn't this solve some of those problems?

https://steamcommunity.com/games/250820/announcements/detail/3809361199426010680

[delirium121]

Wouldn't this solve some of those problems?

https://steamcommunity.com/games/250...61199426010680

no, because you need the physical inputs to be available in the first place...which is what i'm whinging about.

[Seyiji]

no, because you need the physical inputs to be available in the first place...which is what i'm whinging about.

!

I never thought of that !_!

[Nagorak]

I can understand the criticism, but at the same time I think the general premise behind VR controls is to limit artificial inputs like buttons in favor of having you interact with things in the game. With a console controller having a ton of buttons is obviously important because that is your only interface with the game. For example, you hit a button on a console controller to pop up a scanner; in VR maybe I tap something on my wrist to bring up a scanner, like in Lone Echo. The specific button just isn't needed in that case.

I wouldn't be surprised if Valve specifically limited the number of buttons to encourage in-VR interaction, rather than button pushing. There's also the trade off between having a controller with more buttons, and having it slimmer/lighter/more ergonomic. No doubt an argument can be made for having more buttons, but I think I can understand why they made the choices they did.

[Nagorak]

Revised Opinion:

As part of the "deal" at the Microsoft store recently I bought a Lenovo Explorer to try it out.

At first I didn't like it much at all. My original review is at the bottom if you want to read it. A lot of my original criticisms are still valid, but I think my conclusion was too harsh. I've decided that for the price the headset is actually decent. Hell, it only cost $50 than what you have to pay for the Vive DAS, yet it's a fully functional headset!

The screen is noticeably not as vibrant as the OLED display on the Vive/Vive Pro/Rift and presumably Samsung Odyssey. But while it's definitely a step down, it gets the job done. When I first put it on I just couldn't get over how more washed out everything was, but after a while I got used to it. If you've never used another HMD for any length of time you won't notice it.

Headset tracking is good, with some quirks during setup (can't trace the room too close to the wall or it loses tracking). Controller tracking is basically the same as the display: definitely a step down, but it works for the most part. That being said, the controller tracking is actually a bit of a disappointment because the headset tracking works so well. They skimped on having enough tracking cameras (they really need down facing camera, up facing camera and side/rear cameras). I imagine with more cameras you could make the headset tracking more robust too (it could still work in a room with fewer objects and recognize the room at startup even if you're facing the wrong way)

That's really the main flaw with the WMR tech they cut too many corners to save costs: cheap display, no headphones, no rechargeable batteries in the controllers. However they certainly have hit a low price point with them (I wonder if the manufacturers are actually making money though).

So, is it worth $150?

It depends.

If you were planning on getting a Vive or Rift, then don't get a Lenovo Explorer (or really any WMR headset) instead. The displays will be better on the Vive/Rift (exception being the Samsung Odyssey), and the tracking will be definitely more stable and less glitchy.

However, if you really can't afford to get a Vive or Rift, or can't justify the expense, but you want to get into VR then the Lenovo Explorer is a decent buy. I wouldn't pay more than $200 for it maximum, though.

Also expect to spend at least $15 on buying a battery recharger and rechargeable batteries. The controller battery life is terrible. You'll be going through AAs like they're going out of style if you can't recharge them. You'll also need to buy a cheap set of ear buds for the Explorer, since it comes with nothing--not even some cheap junk (I used the cheap buds that came with the Vive). You can try using another set of headphones but I found it very awkward to wear solid band headphones over the headset.

I also don't recommend any of the more expensive WMR headsets, sans Samsung Odyssey. They all have the same not-so-great display, and there's nothing technically better about any of them over the Lenovo. So, in this case it makes sense to just buy the Explorer (or another one if it's cheaper). Samsung Odyssey I'm on the fence about...it should have a great display, but if you're spending $400 I wonder whether it wouldn't be a better idea to get the Rift or Vive for better tracking, albeit slightly lower res.

Another plus about the Lenovo Explorer is it's cheap enough that I might even buy one for a friend as a gift, whereas I would never even consider buying a $300+ HMD for anyone besides a close family member. I can also lend the Explorer out to anyone with a decent PC and they should be able to set it up without much hassle, and also if they break it it's not the end of the world.


Original Negative Review: Let me just get this out of the way first: Is it worth $150? Absolutely not.

The only reason I'd ever recommend this headset is if money is so tight that you will never be able to save up more than $150 (in that case, sorry to say, but what the hell are you thinking getting into VR?). For everyone else, save up the extra $200 for an Oculus Rift, or if you really want to go the WMR route then at least get a Samsung Odyssey which actually has a good display.

Display- Absolutely Atrocious
Starting from the top, the display is absolutely terrible. As soon as I put it on I felt like I was looking at a TV where someone had turned the color saturation down to 5 or 10 (there's still color, but not vibrant at all). On top of the muted colors, or maybe it's the same thing, the contrast is also lacking. Black isn't really black. White isn't really white. It's all just lackluster.

It's amazing how badly this detracts from immersion. I loaded up Star Trek: Bridge Crew in the intro where you're flying around the ship, which normally is pretty impressive, and all I could feel was how "meh" everything looked. It was so washed out that it just didn't feel like I was there at all.

I'm not even going to mention anything else about the screen because the lack of vibrant colors and contrast pretty much ruin it from the start. I've seen other people on Reddit, etc, saying "it's not that bad", so maybe some people just have poor vision? But if you have normal vision, it certainly is that bad.

Moral of the story: Don't ever buy an HMD that doesn't have an OLED screen. Based on this I now also expect the PIMAX 8K is going to suck.

No Included Headphones- Sucks
Don't EVER buy an HMD without built in headphones. That includes the Vive--get the DAS immediately. There's nothing more infuriating than having to take the headphones and HMD off separately. You have to do awkward things like set the headphones down on the floor, etc. Even ear buds you have to pull them out of your ears and then they're going to be hanging there annoyingly. It really just sucks.

HMD Tracking- Basically flawless.
The inside out tracking of the headset is actually pretty impressive. I didn't notice any tracking issues at all with the HMD.

Controller Tracking- Works "ok" but noticeably not as good as Rift or Vive.
The infamous WMR controller tracking. It actually works "ok", but that's about the best I can say for it. If we'd never seen another HMD before, maybe it would be fine, but it's definitely a step down from the Rift or Vive. I'd say that even an "unofficial" Rift two corner setup is probably going to be better.

Without even trying I had controllers glitching out pretty frequently. It was especially noticeable on menus where your laser pointer suddenly goes wonky. In Beat Saber I had my sabers just fly all over the place a couple of times (hadn't realized I'd mastered Force Throw). But for the most part the controllers worked fine for Beat Saber. The worst thing was actually Space Pirate Trainer, because that is where I discovered that the controllers are jittery even when they're in your view. The tracking simply isn't 100% stable like with the Vive or Rift.

Overall I'd put the controller tracking at maybe 75% as good as the Vive or Rift. It's functional but there's significant room for improvement. They need to include a lot more cameras for better coverage. Still, this isn't an absolute deal breaker like the display.

Controller Design / HMD comfort- OK
Actual controller design was alright. Maybe a bit better than the Vive wands. Definitely not as good as the Touch controllers. Compared to the other issues the controller design themselves didn't really stand out one way or the other. The same goes for the HMD comfort. It was comfortable enough. I won't say it's better/worse than Vive/Vive Pro/Rift, it's just different. Comfort won't be why I end up returning this.

Setup- Not so good
The whole point of WMR is that it's supposed to be easier to setup than a Vive or Rift. I'm not sure I agree with it. Yes, I didn't have to place any sensors/base stations, but the actual software setup didn't go well. Trying to trace my room failed probably half a dozen times. You can't go too close to the wall or it loses its ability to track. For some reason once it "froze up", I could never get it to come back again, I just had to start from scratch. To be fair, I was trying to trace out a very large play space.

When I loaded up WMR it consistently "didn't recognize" my area and I had to setup again. I don't know if that was just a bug (maybe it didn't save properly?), or whether it just can't reliable recognize the room.

By default there's no way to natively start Steam VR from in the Cliff House, and I couldn't figure out how to access the desktop. There's probably some way to add it, but Microsoft clearly didn't go out of their way to make it easy. I should note that at this point I'd already dealt with a bunch of failed setups and was already a bit irritated about the whole thing, but having to take the HMD off several times to try to "jump start" Steam VR didn't improve my mood.

Once in Steam VR I discovered that my facing was set to be toward my cord, which was unplayable since I would keep hitting it (cord was annoyingly short). So, of course, I had to go redo the setup in reverse so I was facing away from the computer. Maybe that's more Valve's fault (happens with the Rift too), but it's annoying. Overall the integration between WMR and Steam could be better, although once I finally got into SteamVR it worked fine.

Other Minor Complaints
Cord is too short. Doesn't work when plugged into Vive Linkbox unlike both Vive and Rift.

Conclusion- Three thumbs down (two normal thumbs and one glitched out thumb from behind my back.)

The display is just a deal breaker for me. Non-OLED displays are just not good enough for VR. Washed out colors and poor blacks just kill the experience for me. Maybe if you've never experienced either the Vive or the Rift the display will seem OK, but if you have it just pales in comparison (pun intended).

I think the Samsung Odyssey might be OK since it has an OLED. I would say the other aspects of WMR tech weren't absolute deal breakers, though the controller tracking on the Rift or Vive is noticeably better.

[OverclockN']

Anyone here following the Pimax 5k+ and 8k units? I'm really interested in the Pimax 5k+ and waiting for more reviews and cost. Thinking at this point I'd be all in if it had OLED displays.

What do you guys think?

[Nunz]

Cards aren’t fast enough yet, not even the 2080TI. Maybe 2080TI SLI? But now you have to worry about scaling and mGPU support.

4K is, IMO, just finally becoming usable. 5k will be next gen I think

[Arrowhead]

Even my Vive Pro chokes in some games. I have no interest in upgrading the res for a number of years because poor performance in VR is a killer. I can't wait until my 2080 ti arrives to smooth things just a little more and maybe up the SS. For now I'm very satisfied with the res on the Pro compared to the original Vive. Seeing stuff at a distance is much better and I can live with this res for a few more years no problem. Also, I wouldn't want a headset without a camera on the front. I use it constantly to swig drinks and talk to the wife when she comes in the room. The Vive Pro is a fine unit all around.

[OverclockN']

Cards aren’t fast enough yet, not even the 2080TI. Maybe 2080TI SLI? But now you have to worry about scaling and mGPU support.

4K is, IMO, just finally becoming usable. 5k will be next gen I think

It's not REALLY 5k. That's just the name of the thing because it has two displays that run at 2560x1440. I don't agree with it, but that's what it is.

The 8k is 1920x2160 per eye, and then upscaled to 4k. They then add them together to get 8k.

So yes...both units run OK on current hardware (1080Ti's). The 8k doesn't run at a constant 80fps (it's 80Hz), but reviewers say it's fast and smooth enough to use it.

[Nagorak]

I don't know. I'd say they "run", not really OK. The reports I've read of the FPS with a 1080 Ti were a bit lackluster, IMO. You're going to have a decent amount of reprojection. I'd almost say that a 2080 Ti is a must for a 5K+ (or 8K, same input res), and this is where Nvidia really let us VR users down by not providing more traditional rendering performance. We don't have enough power for VR yet, so sacrificing part of the die for other crap like ray tracing just ends up hurting us.

I also wish the 5K+ had OLED panels. The fact they're running on LCDs is one of the major things that makes me want to hold back (the other thing is the wire). The LCDs I've seen on the WMR headsets are way worse than OLEDs. Of course, there is some difference in LCD quality (ie TN vs IPS), so it's possible the one in the 5K+ is better color-wise, but still black levels won't be good.

For myself, I'd say I'm "following" the 5K+ but I probably won't be getting one until the middle of the next year. It sounds like they won't be available from non-backers until the very end of this year, or the beginning of the next and it looks like I may be going out of the country for several months next February. There's just no point on spending the money on it and potentially also a 2080 Ti just so both can sit collecting dust. I also don't really want to go back to being wired, even if the FOV is wider.

To be honest, I actually don't really mind the Vive FOV that much either. I think there's a bit of exaggeration going on about how bad the Vive FOV is. Yes, you lose your peripheral vision, but it doesn't feel like looking through binoculars or something like that. It's not that bad. All things equal, wider FOV is certainly better, but right now it's not the only consideration.

Maybe by mid-next year they'll have an OLED version (5K++?) and also a wireless adapter available. And maybe the 2000 series pricing will have come down from the stratosphere by then. In that case I'll be much more likely to buy one.

[aviphysics]

It's not REALLY 5k. That's just the name of the thing because it has two displays that run at 2560x1440. I don't agree with it, but that's what it is.

The 8k is 1920x2160 per eye, and then upscaled to 4k. They then add them together to get 8k.

So yes...both units run OK on current hardware (1080Ti's). The 8k doesn't run at a constant 80fps (it's 80Hz), but reviewers say it's fast and smooth enough to use it.

I am pretty sure the 8k is 2560x1440 per an eye upscaled to 4k per an eye. At least, that is what RoadtoVR says (I also recall seeing it buried somewhere on Pimax's website)

https://www.roadtovr.com/pimax-8k-m1-preview-backer-reviews/

From reviews, it looks like you would want at least a 1080ti or a 2080ti for either the 5k or 8k versions.

Both the Pimax 5k and Pimax 8k let you lower the field of view, to reduce the work for the graphics card. Even at the lowest setting, the FOV is still wider than Vive and Rift and the resolution is higher.

For me, needing to buy a full Vive kit in addition to the Pimax makes it a non-starter, even before the GPU becomes a factor. For now, I will just wait for next gen Vive or Rift.

[Destroy]

Shame the Pimax 5k isn't available yet. Maybe next Christmas. Thing is, by then there will be something better probably.

[OverclockN']

Shame the Pimax 5k isn't available yet. Maybe next Christmas. Thing is, by then there will be something better probably.

I think you're right. I'm also holding off because of the games... There doesn't really seem to be any AAA games releasing for these things. I'm likely going to hold off on purchasing until I see that start to happen. I don't see VR taking off unless they start developing more games around it.

Getting my racing sim rig back up and running would be the only other way I'd buy in. I'm not putting up another TV for it (moved my sim rig TV into the garage).

[Nagorak]

You can get the Samsung Odyssey+ right now for $300 at the Microsoft Store, Samsung's site or B&H Photo. For the price it's a pretty good deal.

[Exposed]

Yup, and the Odyssey has the same high resolution screen as the Vive Pro and works with all Steam VR games.

Also, VR adds a whole new dimension to porn.

[andino]