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AMD's Radeon version of DLSS is called FSR and due out this year

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  • SubCog
    replied
    After playing more with FSR/RSR more, I really think this line of spatial-upscaling tech is immensely useful for a bunch of stuff... just not necessarily what people immediately think of. It's clear that new games are going to be using high-end temporal upscaling moving forward, and that will be superior to any kind of upscaling. If you're on a reasonably powerful desktop computer, you'll be able to use temporal upscaling for new games that will challenge your GPU... whereas your GPU will probably run most older games at native-res anyway, negating the need for upscaling at all.

    But there's still tons of areas that I think RSR/FSR/spatial upscaling is really going to be great for.
    1. Playing older games on mobile devices like laptops or steam deck. Games that will never support temporal upscaling, and it probably wouldn't be necessary on a desktop-class gaming PC anyway. Especially for upscaling Steam Deck games to a gaming monitor, for example.

    2. VR. There's a variety of toolkits that allow you to add FSR into VR games already, and that's neat and useful. But the ultimate solution will be embedded into the headset itself. For native Quest apps, building in an RSR implementation will be very beneficial. For PC apps running on Quest (via Link or Virtual Desktop), rendering a lower-res image and streaming it at high bit-rates to the headset, and then performing FSR on the headset itself, will be massively beneficial.

    3. Any kind of game streaming, where you can stream a lower-res screen and upscale with FSR.

    4. Embedded into portable devices like Nintendo Switch.

    5. Might have some benefits for emulating old console games, compared to other upscaling filters.

    6. HDMI upscaling devices similar to Mclassic or Retrotink. Built to upscale anything from old devices to 4k. Might be interesting to combine with scanline filters, etc. (?)



    Additional thoughts:
    • One of the biggest challenges for an RSR-style use case is going to be handling dynamic resolutions. Especially for that last bullet, where an HDMI upscaler could be amazing for a Switch or xbone, to make an image more presentable on a 4k screen. Problem is, many games on those platforms utilize dynamic resolutions. You'd really need a spatial upscaler that was more resilient against that. I still think a spatial upscaler could do the job, but it might need a more robust algorithm.

    • I've been playing with running RSR at custom resolutions, especially low resolutions, and getting a feel for what it's good for. Many people say they would never run FSR/RSR except at the ultra quality setting, but I think that's missing the point a bit. Upscaling from lower resolutions won't give you a high-detail image that looks 4k, but it will give you a low-detail image that is presentable on a 4k screen. I've been running Far Cry 3 at 600p with RSR, for example, and I find myself saying "I would totally play this and love it if I were playing on a mid-range laptop GPU", for example... of course I wouldn't actually play that way on my desktop computer, except just to experiment with it.

    • As for VR, I've been playing MSFS with OpenXR Toolkit over Virtual Desktop, and it's really great. By far the best image quality & performance I've gotten on MSFS out of my mid-range system. I'd love to be able to apply FSR/RSR to everything in VR, and I'd actually play that way. There's at least 3 toolkits available, but they're still a bit primitive, and you can't just have it work on everything. Also, running FSR on your computer is sub-optimal, because then you have to stream a much higher-res image to your headset... Quest has a limited bandwidth for streaming video, so some of the advantages of FSR are undone from the compression artifacting. It would be far better to stream the low-res image to the headset at higher quality, and then apply FSR on the headset itself.

    • Although at first glance it seems like RSR might be a perfect blanket solution for upscaling VR games, actually VR really exposes the limitations of RSR. Because RSR upscales to your monitor's native resolution, what does that mean when you're wanting to display on your headset? The VR rendering pipeline is just different. Games must use OpenVR, OpenXR, or OculusVR to determine many aspects of their rendering, including the render target, and then many games allow you to adjust resolution as a % of that target within the game itself. Then consider game streaming over Virtual Desktop, which has its own render target. I don't think its possible to implement RSR at a driver level that can work with with VR... it has to be worked into the VR pipeline itself.
    Last edited by SubCog; Apr 4, 2022, 10:36 AM.

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  • bill dennison
    replied
    AMD's new FSR 2.0 upscaling tech boosts perf by huge 147% in DEATHLOOP
    Read more: https://www.tweaktown.com/news/85269...oop/index.html

    Leave a comment:


  • Trunks0
    replied
    God of Wars updated with FSR 2.0!

    [yt]X5Qa8we5484[/yt]

    That was fast o_o

    *update*
    NOPE! Typo!

    https://steamcommunity.com/app/15935...3459031689725/

    Patch 1.0.9] FSR Typo in UI
    Hi All –

    We’ve seen comments from players asking about the presence of FSR 2.0 in the UI since we released Patch 1.0.9. We wanted to clarify that it was a mistake on our end and that FSR 2.0 is not currently included in God of War.

    We apologize for any confusion and will amend it in the UI as soon as possible.

    Thank you!
    - God of War Team
    https://updatecrazy.com/god-of-war-p...otes-official/

    God of War Patch 1.0.10 Notes – March 24, 2022
    Fixed typo in UI regarding the FSR version.
    Implemented retries for missing Steam achievements.

    Leave a comment:


  • Trunks0
    replied
    Originally posted by Mangler View Post
    It might also just be CAS.
    Possible it's just FSR 1.0 in use for PS5 given it does say FSR 2.0 in development.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mangler
    replied
    It might also just be CAS.

    Leave a comment:


  • Trunks0
    replied
    The Technologies of FORSPOKEN

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bq_eXMA5KqM

    The Technologies of FORSPOKEN
    [yt]Bq_eXMA5KqM[/yt]

    *screen cap*

    May already be in use PS5 side.

    Leave a comment:


  • pax
    replied
    Having it on Xbox helps adoption greatly no doubt. Theres no info on PS5 yet but hard to see them ignore it. Seems like an easy form of upscaling to implement. Especially if a game is already using dlss apparently. Really happy to see something so close to dlss have such wide gpu coverage. Probably work on intel gpus as well I bet.

    Leave a comment:


  • SubCog
    replied
    Fascinating stuff. Will be interesting to see it in action once it launches.

    I still think there's a place for high quality spatial-only upscaling though. It's a great fall-back for games that don't support temporal vectors. Especially for a driver-level implemented like RSR, it really is the ultimate fall-back for everything. Hopefully they'll continue to update FSR 1.0 as well?

    Good to see xbox support for FSR 2.0... I assume it'll also work on PS5, right?

    Leave a comment:


  • pax
    replied
    Looks like FSR 2.0 will come to lower end HW after all:


    https://twitter.com/Radeon/status/1506696898085892099


    Radeon RX
    @Radeon
    ·
    58m
    Broad hardware support remains a focus of #FSR 2.0, despite the higher demand of advanced temporal upscaling. While we're not constraining compatibility, we do have some recommendations for hardware and target upscaling resolutions.

    Let us know how FSR works on your system!
    Shows RX 590 and Vega series supported nice.

    https://community.amd.com/t5/gaming/...unread-message

    FidelityFX Super Resolution 2.0 Optimal Starting Level Hardware*

    Target Upscaling Resolution AMD Graphics Cards NVIDIA® Graphics Cards

    4K
    Radeon™ RX 6700 XT​
    Radeon™ RX 5700​
    (And above)

    GeForce RTX™ 3070​
    GeForce RTX™ 2070​
    (And above)

    1440P
    Radeon™ RX 6600​
    Radeon™ RX 5600​
    Radeon™ RX Vega Series​
    (And above)

    GeForce RTX™ 3060​
    GeForce RTX™ 2060 ​
    GeForce® GTX 1080
    (And above)

    1080P
    Radeon™ RX 6500 XT​
    Radeon™ RX 590​
    (And above)

    GeForce® GTX 16 Series​
    GeForce® GTX 1070​
    (And above)

    *Recommendations may change.

    Leave a comment:


  • Trunks0
    replied
    I think I might end up using RSR @ 3200x900 to 3840x1080p with Apex Legends. The frame rate boost seems to be helping me stay fluid... although I just might be having a good night . Further testing needed, as I wasn't paying attention to frame rates closely.

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  • SubCog
    replied
    So far the only game I've really found RSR to be useful for (beyond just checking out) on my system is Far Cry 3. Far Cry 3 is still strangely demanding at high resolutions, and bumping down the res a bit allows me to push all other settings to ultra and maintain high framerates. RSR adds a bit of crispness that was sorely missing when I bumped the resolution down without it. Maybe I'll finally give it a play-through?

    I'm running a mid-range AMD gpu (6700xt) on a 144hz 1440p ultra-widescreen. It's plenty powerful enough for most everything I throw at it... although I admit I rarely buy new games, so I haven't tried Elden Ring or God of War or anything like that.

    Doom Eternal can definitely chug with RT enabled, but it already has really great dynamic scaling built in, and RSR isn't really much of an improvement. I think I prefer just turning RT down low and running at full resolution.

    I've been playing with RSR for VR, and I think there's alot of potential there, but definitely needs a bit more testing.

    So RSR is a good feature, I'm glad to have it, but honestly has limited functionality unless you're running on a low-end GPU or trying to run cutting-edge games. I imagine this kind of stuff is going to be amazing for people playing on laptops though.

    Leave a comment:


  • Trunks0
    replied
    Personal fav with the Lossless Scaling App was to upscale from 900p to 1080p. Was a nice little boost with very small drop in quality

    Leave a comment:


  • SubCog
    replied
    I've been playing with RSR this morning. It's neat. Some of my observations:
    • Not as good as native (duh)

    • Can look really good, scaling from 2560p to 1440p (I'm on a 1440p monitor). Definitely works best when scaling from higher resolutions.

    • Still looks ok-ish scaling from 1080p to 1440p... maybe a bit better than having RSR turned off... but still pretty blurry.

    • For best results, you should restart the game any time you change resolution. The scaling seems to be tied to whatever res the game boots at.

    • In Doom Eternal, I had to disable "Present from compute", as that was adding significant input lag when running RSR.

    • RSR works poorly with dynamic resolution scaling, or really any kind of in-game scaling. It really works best when you just stick to whatever resolution the game boots at. Too bad, 'cause I actually think FSR/RSR could be a killer feature if it worked great with dynamic scaling. Imagine running at native res, until you start dropping frames, at which point you drop resolution but turn on FSR, perfectly tuned for that lower resolution, and FSR dynamically adjusts along with the dynamic resolutions. I actually think that's the ultimate use-case for this kind of scaling tech. But no, it can't do anything like that in it's current form.

    • Does not respect your aspect ratio settings. If you play a 4:3 game, it'll stretch it to fill your widescreen monitor. They'll definitely need to fix this in a later update.

    • I tried some super-low resolutions in UT2004, just for giggles. It's actually a neat low-res filter.


    This afternoon I'll try some VR stuff. I want to see if it plays nice with MSFS over Virtual Desktop, and also see if I can pump up the resolution in Robo Recall.

    Leave a comment:


  • Trunks0
    replied
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oKD98lTqilQ
    [yt]oKD98lTqilQ[/yt]

    One of our first looks at FSR 2.0 in DeathLoop. 2.0 is temporal like DLSS 2.x, but doesn't use a pre-trained AI.

    Leave a comment:


  • SubCog
    replied
    Looks like the update is out now, so that's neat. I'll have to play with it later today, after my morning meetings.

    Leave a comment:


  • SubCog
    replied
    "Privacy View" seems like a neat feature. Looks like it uses a webcam to black/blur out parts of the screen that you're not looking at.

    I wonder if they could leverage this capability into a foveated rendering solution? Theoretically you could bump up FPS alot by doubling down on this. We'll be seeing more foveated rendering happening in VR headsets this year, so it seems like this should eventually trickle down to PC gaming too. This, plus FSR, could be amazing at increasing battery life on gaming laptops.

    https://youtu.be/OrJp1CPRJJE?t=18

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  • Trunks0
    replied
    If you want an idea of what it will look like YouTube for vids of using FSR in Linux via the "proton fullscreen hack". Or vids using "Magpie" &/or "Lossless Scaling App". All these methods produce results that are going to be highly similar to what AMD is bringing driver side.

    It works like a charm basically. I've had pretty great results in a few games using the lossless scaling app

    Leave a comment:


  • SubCog
    replied
    Originally posted by pax View Post
    They say its not as fast and slightly lower IQ then FSR due to doing it fullscreen. I cant imagine UQ mode will be much changed.
    From what I've gathered, the quality should be identical, except that FSR allows the devs to choose when & what layers to apply the upscaling too... So devs can apply FSR before they apply any noise effects (which FSR will just smear), and also keep FSR separate from UI elements.

    RSR will upscale everything, including UI elements and distortion effects, which may be sub-optimal for those components.

    Otherwise FSR & RSR should be the same.
    Last edited by SubCog; Mar 14, 2022, 03:41 PM.

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  • pax
    replied
    They say its not as fast and slightly lower IQ then FSR due to doing it fullscreen. I cant imagine UQ mode will be much changed.

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  • SubCog
    replied
    Originally posted by pax View Post
    Cool, I'm excited to see if this lets me get to native-res in MSFS on my Quest2. I'm nearly there already (with spacewarp), but just need a bit of a fps boost.

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  • pax
    replied
    https://videocardz.com/newz/amd-fsr-...hes-march-17th

    OK RSR in 3 days...

    The information in this post is based on official slides, hence we will only report on what is confirmed thus far. AMD is announcing its FSR 2.0 technology on March 17th. This announcement comes 6 days ahead of the official GDC 2022 showcase where next-generation upscaling technology will be discussed.

    As it turns out, the tip we received a few days ago about new upscaling tech in Deathloop is actually FSR 2.0. This title specifically is mentioned in the official slides, with a few side-by-side comparisons that we cannot share yet.

    Leave a comment:


  • SubCog
    replied
    Well they're definitely going to show something this month, their presentation is titled "We're showing off our next generation upscaling", so it'd be embarrassing if they come with blank slides. That being said, they may not be announcing a 2.0 release date, or even anything branded "FSR" at all. It's totally conceivable that they'll just say "here's some stuff our researchers have been poking around with in our labs".

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  • bill dennison
    replied
    Those expecting demos or even teasers of the FSR 2.0 (FidelityFX Super Resolution) should probably lower their expectations. While AMD did mention that FSR will evolve and at some point we should expect a new version, we are now half-a-year away from AMD RDNA3 launch. This architecture should have dedicated GPU units for more sophisticated image upscaling acceleration.

    AMD FSR 1.0 launch was rather successful and has seen implementation in a large number of games, mainly because AMD open-sourced the code for all game developers to use. However, AMD now feels pressure not only from NVIDIA whose AI-based DLSS 2.0 is still better at lower resolutions, but also from Intel who are to launch its XeSS upscaling later this year.


    https://videocardz.com/newz/amd-to-d...ng-at-gdc-2022

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  • SIrPauly
    replied
    May receive more info at GDC 22:

    https://schedule.gdconf.com/speaker/...n-andrew/29643


    https://schedule.gdconf.com/speaker/riley-colin/28321


    https://schedule.gdconf.com/speaker/arcila-thomas/64925

    Leave a comment:


  • SubCog
    replied
    Well there's lots of other stuff that a DLSS 3.0 could address, beyond just graphics quality:
    • Reduce the time/difficulty of implementation in games. That would help alot, and this is an area where AMD currently has a large advantage.
    • Move toward a single AI model based on a single training set for everything, rather than individual models for each game. A universal model would be gold here.
    • Implement at the driver level, make it available for every game regardless of specific implementations... of course this relies on the previous bullet.
    • Improve overall performance, especially for mobile devices. FSR is a good deal more performant than DLSS, making it ideal for portable devices like SteamPad, Switch, or Quest2.
    • Include DLSS fall-backs for older graphics cards and non-Nvidia hardware. That's what intel is doing, and likely what AMD is going to end up doing eventually. Sure you'll probably get the best quality & performance on newer nvidia cards, but it would be smart to get a DLSS-branded solution that can run on everything, especially xbox & playstation.

    Leave a comment:


  • pax
    replied
    Now that would be interesting... God knows RT needs all the acceleration it can use.

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  • Trunks0
    replied
    Originally posted by pax View Post
    Cool! I wonder what else they can do upscale wise with 3.0... I thought DLSS 2.3 was about as good as it can get.
    Current rumour is it maybe addressing the raytracing element more directly. In which case I could see them doing something like... using an AI model to guesstimate rays instead of calculating them all based on a smaller number of jittered previous rays or something else. Who knows

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  • pax
    replied
    Cool! I wonder what else they can do upscale wise with 3.0... I thought DLSS 2.3 was about as good as it can get.

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  • SubCog
    replied
    Originally posted by pax View Post
    Some tidbits are coming out about it now. Sounds interesting:


    https://twitter.com/CapFrameX/status...75332829188097





    Story is its about as good as DLSS 2.0.
    Of course FSR is going to improve alot with the next iteration. Keep in mind though, that DLSS 3.0 is right around the corner. It's highly unlikely that DLSS will be leap-frogged by a competitor. I guarantee that nvidia is investing ALOT more $$ and has ALOT more top-talent working on this than AMD. I've mentioned it before, but actually the lead architect of DLSS is a friend of mine.

    Although I also think that we'll get to a point where all of the upscaling technologies are great and most people can't tell the difference. I already can't tell much difference between FSR and DLSS, unless somebody zooms way in and points out exactly which feature to pay attention to. I doubt I'd notice during actual gameplay.

    So far it appears that DLSS will maintain it's lead as the best-of-the-best option, while FSR will become the ubiquitous democratized good-enough option. We'll see where intel's stuff falls in after that.

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  • pax
    replied
    Some tidbits are coming out about it now. Sounds interesting:


    https://twitter.com/CapFrameX/status...75332829188097



    CapFrameX
    @CapFrameX
    FSR 2.0 to come/announced soon. Saw some footage today. Very impressive. 😮

    ▶️ Temporal upscaling + optimized AA
    ▶️ Does not need AI
    ▶️ Runs on GPUs from all vendors
    ▶️ Impressive performance and image quality

    AMD even claims that it can be better than native. ^^

    #FSRGen2
    4:06 PM · Mar 11, 2022·Twitter Web App
    Story is its about as good as DLSS 2.0.

    Leave a comment:


  • Trunks0
    replied
    https://videocardz.com/newz/amd-to-d...ng-at-gdc-2022

    Originally posted by Videocardz - AMD presenting its latest research results for image upscaling for games
    During one of the sessions titled “Next-Generation Image Upscaling for Games” will present AMD’s latest research results in image upscaling technology and explain how this improves gaming experience. It should be noted though, that nowhere does AMD mention FSR or machine learning.

    Those expecting demos or even teasers of the FSR 2.0 (FidelityFX Super Resolution) should probably lower their expectations. While AMD did mention that FSR will evolve and at some point we should expect a new version, we are now half-a-year away from AMD RDNA3 launch. This architecture should have dedicated GPU units for more sophisticated image upscaling acceleration.

    Leave a comment:


  • Kombatant
    replied
    Yup. Q1.

    Leave a comment:


  • pax
    replied
    Ya Im sure theres some regular driver updates coming out before the big one but they mentioned the adrenaline big one with RSR would be out quarter one.

    [yt]OrJp1CPRJJE[/yt]
    Last edited by pax; Jan 10, 2022, 08:57 PM.

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  • bill dennison
    replied
    isn't there alway a big driver release in january or first part of february ?

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  • Trunks0
    replied
    Originally posted by pax View Post
    yea about that the various video presentations talked 1st quarter 2022 so sounds like a bit delayed... by end of march at the latest I hope
    Well lets see here. Whats coming out this month that AMD might want to release a driver for to ensure everything is good? God of War and Rainbow Six Extraction both come out on the 20th, so AMD will likely release a driver right around then.

    Leave a comment:


  • pax
    replied
    Originally posted by bill dennison View Post
    when any word ??
    yea about that the various video presentations talked 1st quarter 2022 so sounds like a bit delayed... by end of march at the latest I hope

    Leave a comment:


  • bill dennison
    replied
    Originally posted by pax View Post
    https://videocardz.com/newz/amd-to-i...s-in-all-games




    Driver is due out in January apparently.

    when any word ??

    Leave a comment:


  • pax
    replied
    I would suspect an upgrade with FSR 2.0 that would be navi on up only and FSR 1.0 hopefully polaris on up but you called it man. Itd be an awesome thing to have it near universal and user tweakable.

    Even makes the sting of high prices a bit less all around...

    Leave a comment:


  • Trunks0
    replied
    Originally posted by pax View Post
    I hope they do it Polaris on up at least. Rumor has it its navi1 and 2 only.
    We might see that change with later driver versions like we did with Radeon Image Sharpening. Or at least I hope we do

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  • pax
    replied
    I hope they do it Polaris on up at least. Rumor has it its navi1 and 2 only.

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