Official AMD Radeon RX 7000 Series (RDNA 3) Thread

[acroig]

i think MCM chiplets will require HBM .

How come?

[bill dennison]

How come?

because no infinity cache will be big enough for MCM chiplets

i think they will need memory as close as posable and that means on die HBM, and where I think they have been going with HBM and infinity cache from the start steeping stones to MCM

think 2 or 4 or more chiplets all working on a frame at the same time off die memory will be too slow add too much latency

[Nunz]

I truly hope they make infinity cache something that works then, because right now it's useless.

Bill you're obsessed with MCM

[bill dennison]

I truly hope they make infinity cache something that works then, because right now it's useless.

Bill you're obsessed with MCM

yep

we all should be

we are at 5nm and GPU's chips are getting bigger every gen
how much longer before they run out of nodes that work ?

or GPU's that are so big they cost 2000+ bucks

[Nunz]

I don't think MCM will make costs go down. If there's one thing that's been a constant in the world, it's that things don't get cheaper. AMD/NV will just take the extra profit margin. Look at the costs of the 5000 series; AMD seen that Intel doesn't have a 12-core or 16-core direct comparison chip, so they jacked the prices up by a nice chunk. The only thing that keeps prices reasonable is competition, but if both companies jack it up, then we're all screwed.

I don't think it'll get cheaper. We've seen prices on the low and mid-range chips go up every year, to the point where people think the 3070 and 6800 are good values.

[bill dennison]

I don't think MCM will make costs go down. If there's one thing that's been a constant in the world, it's that things don't get cheaper. AMD/NV will just take the extra profit margin. Look at the costs of the 5000 series; AMD seen that Intel doesn't have a 12-core or 16-core direct comparison chip, so they jacked the prices up by a nice chunk. The only thing that keeps prices reasonable is competition, but if both companies jack it up, then we're all screwed.

I don't think it'll get cheaper. We've seen prices on the low and mid-range chips go up every year, to the point where people think the 3070 and 6800 are good values.

50 bucks is "jacked the prices up by a nice chunk"
16-core from 3950x for 749 to 799 for a 5950X


before Ryzen Intel was charging 1000+ for 4, 6 and 8 core CPU's
and if Intel had Ryzen instead of AMD that 5950X would be 1500 to 2000+


I think it will get a little cheaper but it will more slow the rise in prices

[bill dennison]

AMD made a billion dollars more in Q4, and multiple billions in 2020

All of that can translate to eye-popping dollar signs: the chipmaker just announced its Q4 and full-year 2020 earnings, and it’s adding billions of dollars wherever you look:

$3.2 billion in revenue this quarter, up 53 percent from $2.1 billion last quarter
$1.78 billion in profit this quarter, up 948 percent from $170 million last quarter*
$9.76 billion in revenue this past year, up 45 percent from $6.7 billion in 2019
$2.49 billion in profit this past year, up 630 percent from $341 million in 2019*
*Those profits include “a fourth quarter income tax benefit of $1.30 billion associated with a valuation allowance release,” according to the company.

https://www.theverge.com/2021/1/26/2...-earnings-2021

yea i think we will see RDNA 3 in 10 to 14 months
they got the cash to do it now and they need to get the jump on NV

[LordHawkwind]

https://www.theverge.com/2021/1/26/2...-earnings-2021

yea i think we will see RDNA 3 in 10 to 14 months
they got the cash to do it now and they need to get the jump on NV

Bill this a comment from the article you posted.

And while AMD CEO Lisa Su did claim that the new Radeon 6000 cards had “launch quarter shipments three times larger than any prior AMD gaming GPU priced above $549,” that’s not much of a claim. The company’s Vega cards were also insanely hard to find, and to our knowledge AMD never previously sold a single gaming GPU above $550. The Radeon HD 7970 launched at $549, excluding it from AMD’s claim, and though the 6990 and 7990 cost $700 and $1,000 respectively, they were niche cards that had two GPUs each.

And before anyone shouts Radeon VII that was a failed Instinct card that only got launched because of the stupid prices of the RTX20 series. All the profit has come from console sales, EPYC ,Ryzen and mobile chips.

It's also interesting to note that the ASP on desktop processors dropped due to the mix of sales. Which translates to people like me who ended up buying a 3800X Zen 2 because I couldn't buy a 5800X. Also don't forget the fiasco surrounding Zen 3 not working on X470 M/B's and they needed a new bios which is only now being released.

If AMD want to keep making money all they need to do is release the 6700XT, 6700 and any mid-range card below because that is where the big sales and money are. They don't need an enthusiast 4K card. Lisa Su is a very intelligent business person and not a 4K enthusiast like you I'm afraid.

[bill dennison]

fact of life the top high end cards sell the midrange cards

if AMD can't come out with a winning high end card to beat NV their midrange won't sell well


flat out they need to beat the 3090 and smoke the 3080 soon or what ever NV's top cards are at the time
to get market buzz and sell the midrange money makers


take last time as AMD doesn't have 6000 midrange out yet

most people didn't say to themselves hay NV has the best fastest card in the 2080 ti but i can't afford that 1200 bucks monster so i'll buy a midrange RX 5700 that is slower than NV's last top card the 1080 ti
no they went for the 2060/70/80 that they could afford and why AMD lost a crap ton of market share

the masses may not buy the wining top card but the tend to buy the winning brand name of that top card .

and AMD needs to get there soon

[SuperGeil]

Overclocking the memory won't fix an issue with the bus width not being wide enough to handle more throughput.

If the buswidth is 128bit and the memory clock is 10ghz, it's still the same memory bandwidth as a 256bit bus with 5ghz memory, so I'm not sure what you mean by handling throughput better. If RDNA2 is bandwidth constrained, it would reflect it with near linear performance increase at 4k by overclocking the memory. But that is not what is happening. A 7% boost in memory clocks is fetching one or two frames per second.


The better way to look at it is that the 6800 is scaling better than the 3000 series at lower resolutions because of the ''garbage'' infinity cache. Not because it is memory bandwidth constrained at 4k, but because at resolutions below 4k, much less data has to leave the package. If the 3080 had a 128mb cache, it would probably show a similar delta between 1440p and 4k.

A deeper dive and investigation is needed. But there is no evidence to suggest RDNA2 is bandwidth bottlenecked.

[Gandalfthewhite]

HBM is just another money sink that has nose-dived AMD before. They don't need it. GDDR6 puts out very good bandwidth, especially if they use Samsung memory chips instead of Hynix/Micron. If they had used a 384-bit bus, or maybe a 352-bit bus, we wouldn't be talking about HBM. Look at GDDR6X and the bandwidth it's putting out; I don't care for HBM at all.

HBM seemed genius when GDDR4 AND GDDR5 were slow as piss, but GDDR6 and 6X dramatically increased memory throughput and I think it shows that the memory bandwidth is not the limiting factor right now. Combine the raster performance of the 6900XT with a good sized bus instead of the gimped garbage AMD put on the card and it likely changes much of what we see in 4K performance.

HBM2 is cheaper at this point then gddr6x. Rumors are starting to make the rounds that NV cards are getting another price bump because of gddr6x production woes. At this point the HBM2 is too expensive rhetoric is out of date, especially with HBM2e being a thing. The real question is can production of HBM keep up with demand?

I don't disagree about the bus width being the downside of the current 6x00 cards.

[Flyordie]

I don't typically chime in on "rumor" threads like this because my friend works on the CPU side.. but..

There is a reason RDNA2's IMC supports HBM2. Its the same IMC used in their CDNA arch. Don't count HBM2 out just yet.

[Nagorak]

fact of life the top high end cards sell the midrange cards

if AMD can't come out with a winning high end card to beat NV their midrange won't sell well


flat out they need to beat the 3090 and smoke the 3080 soon or what ever NV's top cards are at the time
to get market buzz and sell the midrange money makers


take last time as AMD doesn't have 6000 midrange out yet

most people didn't say to themselves hay NV has the best fastest card in the 2080 ti but i can't afford that 1200 bucks monster so i'll buy a midrange RX 5700 that is slower than NV's last top card the 1080 ti
no they went for the 2060/70/80 that they could afford and why AMD lost a crap ton of market share

the masses may not buy the wining top card but the tend to buy the winning brand name of that top card .

and AMD needs to get there soon

Another way of putting this is the masses barely know what they are doing and just buy whatever company name they recognize.

[pax]

AMD should highlight its main brand name over that of Radeon at this point. People know AMD for cpus they wont hesitate as much over a gpu if they see that main brand on the box.

But honestly 2 main gpu makers doesnt cut it. If we want out of the perenial crazy banana pants prices we'll need intel and some chinese maker Ive read about at some point in there.

[bill dennison]

AMD should highlight its main brand name over that of Radeon at this point. People know AMD for cpus they wont hesitate as much over a gpu if they see that main brand on the box.

But honestly 2 main gpu makers doesnt cut it. If we want out of the perenial crazy banana pants prices we'll need intel and some chinese maker Ive read about at some point in there.

we don't need anything from china .

the prices are more the fabs at this point i think we need lots more fabs and most in north America

[LordHawkwind]

fact of life the top high end cards sell the midrange cards

if AMD can't come out with a winning high end card to beat NV their midrange won't sell well

flat out they need to beat the 3090 and smoke the 3080 soon or what ever NV's top cards are at the time
to get market buzz and sell the midrange money makers

take last time as AMD doesn't have 6000 midrange out yet

most people didn't say to themselves hay NV has the best fastest card in the 2080 ti but i can't afford that 1200 bucks monster so i'll buy a midrange RX 5700 that is slower than NV's last top card the 1080 ti
no they went for the 2060/70/80 that they could afford and why AMD lost a crap ton of market share

the masses may not buy the wining top card but the tend to buy the winning brand name of that top card .

and AMD needs to get there soon

TBH I'm not convinced with that argument that having a halo 4k card sells more mid-range their is far more to it than that. I agree (and you've mentioned numerous times ) my last three GPU's were mid-range AMD cards in the scheme of things. During that time Nvidia always had the halo card but that never bothered me. There were a couple of things that made me stick with AMD.

Firstly I had a freesync monitor so I was in the AMD ecosystem. Plus at the time Nvidia didn't support it. Secondly I looked at price/performance ratio and AMD's cards always seemed better in that respect. We're all individuals so lumping us all together as a homogeneous mass, as Nagorak mentions you're making the assumption we don't know what we're doing which is a bit disingenuous and sounds like you're looking down on people who buy mid-range cards as stupid.

Two other things you ignore are if you already own an Nvidia card it's simply a plug and play upgrade whereas buying a new AMD card means getting used to newer things and driver settings. This is quite off putting for a lot of people who are not used to it.

TBH I'm still finding my way around the Nvidia driver panel, it's a lot different to AMD's Adrenalin software. You shouldn't underestimate that as its a steep learning curve. I'm replicating the optimal settings in Geforce Experience because I haven't used an Nvidia card for a decade so any help I can get is welcome.

The other thing you're ignoring is AMD's (justified or not) reputation for drivers. Whether it's true or not people just believe it and use it as a reason not to buy an AMD card. I've had my issues to be sure and I agree that Nvidia have their own issues but the myth that AMD drivers are bad has become a fact people believe without questioning.

There's a lot of things AMD need to do and just releasing a halo card is not going to fix them.

[bill dennison]

TBH I'm not convinced with that argument that having a halo 4k card sells more mid-range their is far more to it than that. I agree (and you've mentioned numerous times ) my last three GPU's were mid-range AMD cards in the scheme of things. During that time Nvidia always had the halo card but that never bothered me. There were a couple of things that made me stick with AMD.

Firstly I had a freesync monitor so I was in the AMD ecosystem. Plus at the time Nvidia didn't support it. Secondly I looked at price/performance ratio and AMD's cards always seemed better in that respect. We're all individuals so lumping us all together as a homogeneous mass, as Nagorak mentions you're making the assumption we don't know what we're doing which is a bit disingenuous and sounds like you're looking down on people who buy mid-range cards as stupid.

Two other things you ignore are if you already own an Nvidia card it's simply a plug and play upgrade whereas buying a new AMD card means getting used to newer things and driver settings. This is quite off putting for a lot of people who are not used to it.

TBH I'm still finding my way around the Nvidia driver panel, it's a lot different to AMD's Adrenalin software. You shouldn't underestimate that as its a steep learning curve. I'm replicating the optimal settings in Geforce Experience because I haven't used an Nvidia card for a decade so any help I can get is welcome.

The other thing you're ignoring is AMD's (justified or not) reputation for drivers. Whether it's true or not people just believe it and use it as a reason not to buy an AMD card. I've had my issues to be sure and I agree that Nvidia have their own issues but the myth that AMD drivers are bad has become a fact people believe without questioning.

There's a lot of things AMD need to do and just releasing a halo card is not going to fix them.

it is the same as CPU's it took 3 years of top CPU's to get people to start dropping intel
and it will be the same with GPU's
the 6800 xt is a good start but they need more now with RT

I would take either a 3080 Strix or a 6800 xt Strix at this point as i don't really care about RT it just not ready for prime time even after 2+ years
and without RT they are about the same at 4k but the 6800 xt uses less watts
but they will both only be about 25% to 30% at 4k over what i have

but RT is all the buzz even if it will take 4 years to be ready for prime time so AMD needs it




i wish NVidia control panel was like Adrenalin software and that POS Geforce Experience was gone

the hole lot of that ATI/AMD bad driver thing started with Nvidia Focus Group pushing it around the net
some of it was deserved at times but mostly it was NV had better SLI drivers in more games than Crossfire up till the 290x
single card is about the same and always has been they both have problems now and then with some games

[SuperGeil]

I remember the ugly CP on my 1060. Do not miss it. Nor the Linux hell I went through.

[bill dennison]

I remember the ugly CP on my 1060. Do not miss it. Nor the Linux hell I went through.

it's the same one it has not changed since windows 3.0

[SuperGeil]

Infinity cache with AI acceleration?

This confirms they are going all in on memory on chip, but the patent indicates they don't just want memory to function as superfast cache - they want memory modules to also accelerate AI.

CDNA 2? RDNA 3?

[acroig]

I remember the ugly CP on my 1060. Do not miss it. Nor the Linux hell I went through.

it's the same one it has not changed since windows 3.0

FPS with RTX/DLSS > Cute CP.

[SuperGeil]

Im not interested in turning a pretty good Radeon architecture thread this into another Nv marketing circus show.

[acroig]

Im not interested in turning a pretty good Radeon architecture thread this into another Nv marketing circus show.

This is a forum, you make a statement, someone refutes it. That's how it works, verstehen?

[SuperGeil]

This is a forum, you make a statement, someone refutes it. That's how it works, verstehen?

That is an interesting way to refute a statement about a CP being ugly. You should not be cognitively bothered by it.

EDIT: you get a moderator to ban me from speaking German to another German and you proceed to condescend me with German. I know you don't like me, but trust me, I'm not going to affect Nvidia's sales too much

[acroig]

That is an interesting way to refute a statement about a CP being ugly. You should not be cognitively bothered by it.

The fact that I disagree with you and explained the reasoning behind it is not nV marketing circus, it's an opinion.

Have the last word on this.

[bill dennison]

FPS with RTX/DLSS > Cute CP.

preparation DLSS sucks KAC's hairy ass

[acroig]

preparation DLSS sucks KAC's hairy ass

Maybe.... but the FPS are still up there.

Stop arguing or I'll ask Exposed to chime in about DLSS.

[SuperGeil]

The fact that I disagree with you and explained the reasoning behind it is not nV marketing circus, it's an opinion.

Have the last word on this.

But it's not a disagreement about the CP being ugly because you would have said otherwise. It's cleverly ambiguous in that regard. Did you mean, ''you are right, the CP is ugly, but we have Ray tracing and DLSS'' or did you mean ''no, you are wrong, the control panel is pretty because we have Ray tracing and DLSS.''? either way, it makes no sense.

I think you know what you are doing.

[bill dennison]

Maybe.... but the FPS are still up there.

Stop arguing or I'll ask Exposed to chime in about DLSS.

i like RT for the most part when it in not turning clear glass into a funhouse mirror like is 2077


but if i have to turn on more preparation DLSS than quality at 4k i will turn RT off also and run without both .

and i get better FPS in 2077 at 4k without RT & preparation DLSS quality than with both on
and i have been playing 2077 with both off

and performance & balanced are just bad .
if i wanted to play at 1080p i wouldn't have paid 2000+ bucks for this 4K OLED 55" LG CX

hell lets go back to a CGA CRT to get FPS for RT

what i really need a new card for is HDMI 2.1

[acroig]

i like RT for the most part when it in not turning clear glass into a funhouse mirror like is 2077


but if i have to turn on more preparation DLSS than quality at 4k i will turn RT off also and run without both .

Not to beat a dead horse but DLSS is quite good on Cyberpunk.

[bill dennison]

Not to beat a dead horse but DLSS is quite good on Cyberpunk.

quality is ok at 4k but is not much of a FPS boost over DLSS off

and being 36 inches away from a 4K OLED 55" LG CX i don't like performance & balanced .

[LordHawkwind]

preparation DLSS sucks KAC's hairy ass

All the games I play with Ray tracing don't offer DLSS. Only Ultra RT. OK not 4K but 1440p but if it comes with the card why not use it? TBH 1440p native with Ultra RT looks pretty good to me.

Do you really think AMD's version of DLSS is going to be any better? I think the jury might be out on that one. Let's see I guess.

[bill dennison]

All the games I play with Ray tracing don't offer DLSS. Only Ultra RT. OK not 4K but 1440p but if it comes with the card why not use it? TBH 1440p native with Ultra RT looks pretty good to me.

Do you really think AMD's version of DLSS is going to be any better? I think the jury might be out on that one. Let's see I guess.

no and i won't use AMD's either if it's not

and 1440p is less than the 30 inch 2560x1600 i started using in 2007
i can deal with

in 4 years 2 to 3 generation RT will be great when GPU's can do it without preparation DLSS

till then it is great to look at for a bit then turn off and play the game if it is like 2077 and even that you can play at 30 to 35 FPS RT on and with G-sync or 35 to 40 FPS without RT
DLSS quality splits the difference

[LordHawkwind]

quality is ok at 4k but is not much of a FPS boost over DLSS off

and being 36 inches away from a 4K OLED 55" LG CX i don't like performance & balanced .

Wow you sit three feet away form a 55" screen wow. I sit a few feet away from my 27" monitor and it seems big

I have a 2018 LG 4K 50" HDR TV in the living room and sit maybe 8 to 10 feet away and it's difficult to tell the difference when watching 4K output. Now HDR I can tell the difference straight away very nice indeed. The Xbone X looks good with HDR content but again I'm up to 10 feet away.

Good for Sports sims and racing but need my 1440p monitor for first person shooters and keyboard.

[Nascar24]

preparation DLSS sucks KAC's hairy ass

Billy and his non sense posts. I see no issues while using DLSS. No reason to be so upset about it Billy!

[bill dennison]

Billy and his non sense posts. I see no issues while using DLSS. No reason to be so upset about it Billy!

i don't like it sorry if that offends you but i don't really give a Sh*t

and i wasn't the one that brought NV DLSS into a RDNA 3 Rumor Discussion thread







..............

Could AMD build its next RDNA graphics card out of chiplets?

https://www.pcgamer.com/amd-mcm-gpu-...s-card-rdna-3/


.........

AMD Files Patent for Chiplet Machine Learning Accelerator to be Paired With GPU, Cache Chiplets

This could give AMD a modular way to add machine-learning capabilities to several of their designs through the inclusion of such a chiplet, and might be AMD's way of achieving hardware acceleration of a DLSS-like feature.

https://www.techpowerup.com/277856/a...e-chiplets?amp

and if it is not better than DLSS 2 Q i won't use it either

[acroig]

i don't like it sorry if that offends you but i don't really give a Sh*t

and i wasn't the one that brought NV DLSS into....

My bad, let's move on, the CP argument seemed silly so I brought up other points.

[Exposed]

Maybe.... but the FPS are still up there.

Stop arguing or I'll ask Exposed to chime in about DLSS.

[acroig]

, I'll do the same.

[SuperGeil]

My bad, let's move on, the CP argument seemed silly so I brought up other points.

You knew what you were doing and what was going to happen You were not that insecure about ugly CP comments.

Im not interested in turning a pretty good Radeon architecture thread this into another Nv marketing circus show.

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