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Official AMD Radeon RX 7000 Series (RDNA 3) Thread
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AMD Flagship RDNA 3 Navi 31 GPU Allegedly Codenamed ‘Plum Bonito’ & Uses ‘Gemini’ Board, Next-Gen RDNA 4 May Land As ‘GFX1200’ Series
https://wccftech.com/amd-rdna-3-navi...gfx1200-rumor/
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Oh so no separate MCD and GCD?I talked to the tree. Thats why they put me away!..." Peter Sellers, The Goon Show
Only superficial people cant be superficial... Oscar Wilde
Piledriver Rig 2016: Gigabyte G1 gaming 990fx. FX 8350 cpu. XFX RX 480 GTR Cats 22.7.1, SoundBlaster ZXR, 2 x 8 gig ddr3 1866 Kingston. 1 x 2tb Firecuda seagate with 8 gig mlc SSHD. Sharp 60" 4k 60 hz tv. Win 10 home.
Ryzen Rig 2017: Gigabyte X370 K7 F50d bios. Ryzen 5800X3D :). 2 x 8 ddr4 3600 (@3200) Cas 16 Gskill. Sapphire Vega 64 Reference Cooler Cats 22.4.1. 1700 mhz @1.1v. Soundblaster X Ae5, 32" Dell S3220DGF 1440p Freesync Premium Pro monitor, Kingston A2000 1TB NVME. 4 TB HGST NAS HD. Win 11 pro.
Ignore List: Keystone, Andino... -My Baron, he wishes to inform you that vendetta, as he puts it in the ancient tongue, the art of kanlee is still alive... He does not wish to meet or speak with you...-
"Either half my colleagues are enormously stupid, or else the science of darwinism is fully compatible with conventional religious beliefs and equally compatible with atheism." -Stephen Jay Gould, Rock of Ages.
"The Intelligibility of the Universe itself needs explanation. It is not the gaps of understanding of the world that points to God but rather the very comprehensibility of scientific and other forms of understanding that requires an explanation." -Richard Swinburne
www.realitysandwich.com
www.plasma-universe.com/pseudoskepticism/
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Originally posted by bill dennison View Post------Squachbox 2022------
Gigabyte 3D Aurora 570 full size aluminum chassis
Thermaltake Toughpower GF1 750watt PSU
AMD Ryzen 5 2600X @ 3.6ghz
Asus Prime B450M A/CSM
2 x 8GB G-Skill DDR4 2666
BenQ Mobiuz EX2710S 27" FHD monitor + Asus Dual Radeon RX 6600
Seagate Barracuda 500gb 7200.12 SATA
Seagate Barracuda 2TB SATA
Samsung EVO 970 1TB NVMe
HyperX Cloud Stinger wired headset
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Oh wait the mem cache die are also MCD... multiple MCD chips hmm... I just hope it works well.I talked to the tree. Thats why they put me away!..." Peter Sellers, The Goon Show
Only superficial people cant be superficial... Oscar Wilde
Piledriver Rig 2016: Gigabyte G1 gaming 990fx. FX 8350 cpu. XFX RX 480 GTR Cats 22.7.1, SoundBlaster ZXR, 2 x 8 gig ddr3 1866 Kingston. 1 x 2tb Firecuda seagate with 8 gig mlc SSHD. Sharp 60" 4k 60 hz tv. Win 10 home.
Ryzen Rig 2017: Gigabyte X370 K7 F50d bios. Ryzen 5800X3D :). 2 x 8 ddr4 3600 (@3200) Cas 16 Gskill. Sapphire Vega 64 Reference Cooler Cats 22.4.1. 1700 mhz @1.1v. Soundblaster X Ae5, 32" Dell S3220DGF 1440p Freesync Premium Pro monitor, Kingston A2000 1TB NVME. 4 TB HGST NAS HD. Win 11 pro.
Ignore List: Keystone, Andino... -My Baron, he wishes to inform you that vendetta, as he puts it in the ancient tongue, the art of kanlee is still alive... He does not wish to meet or speak with you...-
"Either half my colleagues are enormously stupid, or else the science of darwinism is fully compatible with conventional religious beliefs and equally compatible with atheism." -Stephen Jay Gould, Rock of Ages.
"The Intelligibility of the Universe itself needs explanation. It is not the gaps of understanding of the world that points to God but rather the very comprehensibility of scientific and other forms of understanding that requires an explanation." -Richard Swinburne
www.realitysandwich.com
www.plasma-universe.com/pseudoskepticism/
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Initially, the Navi 31 GPU configuration featured two GCDs (Graphics Core Die) and a single MCD (Multi-Cache Die). Each GCD has 3 Shader Engines (6 in total) and each Shader Engine has 2 Shader Arrays (2 per SE / 6 per GCD / 12 in total). Each Shader Array is composed of 5 WGPs (10 per SE / 30 per GCD / 60 in total) and each WGP features 8 SIMD32 units with 32 ALUs (40 SIMD32 per SA / 80 per SE / 240 per GCD / 480 in total). These SIMD32 units combine to make up 7,680 cores per GCD and 15,360 cores in total.
But that specification has since been toned down and as per the latest rumors, the AMD Navi 31 GPU with RDNA 3 architecture is now expected to offer 48 WGPs, 12 SAs, and 6 SEs. This will give out a total of 12,288 stream processors which is lower than the previous count. This will also drop the overall compute performance unless AMD goes crazy with over 3.0 GHz clock frequencies on its flagship part.
more than likely both 15,360 and 12,288 are true just different cards
15,360 maybe a pro card to start and a 7950 XTX later
they have done this before with the 4870 all kind of SP count rumors
ended in NV dropping the GTX 280 & 260 prices a good bit
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Ya I bet they will get more working dies with the 12k shader figure at first and the 15k one is probably perfect dies that might take time to harvest and get better yields.
Kind the way we dont see many 6800's anymore.I talked to the tree. Thats why they put me away!..." Peter Sellers, The Goon Show
Only superficial people cant be superficial... Oscar Wilde
Piledriver Rig 2016: Gigabyte G1 gaming 990fx. FX 8350 cpu. XFX RX 480 GTR Cats 22.7.1, SoundBlaster ZXR, 2 x 8 gig ddr3 1866 Kingston. 1 x 2tb Firecuda seagate with 8 gig mlc SSHD. Sharp 60" 4k 60 hz tv. Win 10 home.
Ryzen Rig 2017: Gigabyte X370 K7 F50d bios. Ryzen 5800X3D :). 2 x 8 ddr4 3600 (@3200) Cas 16 Gskill. Sapphire Vega 64 Reference Cooler Cats 22.4.1. 1700 mhz @1.1v. Soundblaster X Ae5, 32" Dell S3220DGF 1440p Freesync Premium Pro monitor, Kingston A2000 1TB NVME. 4 TB HGST NAS HD. Win 11 pro.
Ignore List: Keystone, Andino... -My Baron, he wishes to inform you that vendetta, as he puts it in the ancient tongue, the art of kanlee is still alive... He does not wish to meet or speak with you...-
"Either half my colleagues are enormously stupid, or else the science of darwinism is fully compatible with conventional religious beliefs and equally compatible with atheism." -Stephen Jay Gould, Rock of Ages.
"The Intelligibility of the Universe itself needs explanation. It is not the gaps of understanding of the world that points to God but rather the very comprehensibility of scientific and other forms of understanding that requires an explanation." -Richard Swinburne
www.realitysandwich.com
www.plasma-universe.com/pseudoskepticism/
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AMD RDNA 3 Flagship, Navi 31 GPU Rumored To Offer Up To 384-bit Bus & 24 GB GDDR6 Memory, Navi 32 Gets 256-bit For Up To 16 GB Memory
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Still stuck on GDDR6.. sigh. At least they're fixing the bus width; that was my biggest criticism of the 6000 series.
24gb of vram is a waste. Rather have 16gb of gddr6xOriginally posted by curioEat this protein bar, for it is of my body. And drink this creatine shake, for it is my blood.
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This kind of increase in the memory bus translates to a considerable boost in the memory bandwidth. Assuming that the AMD Navi 31 GPU comes with 24GB of GDDR6 memory, we could expect around 846GB/s of memory bandwidth for that model, while the Navi 32 would offer 576GB/s. The Navi 33 GPU doesn’t seem to have had any changes and still features a 128-bit memory bus alongside 288GB/s bandwidth. These numbers are expected to go up when Infinity Cache is taken into account.
wish it was HBM 3
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if we dont see anything about RDNA3 by the end of July I will agree its not coming this year. AMDs focus last night was platform whether it be notebook or desktop it was all about the platform.Main rig: look at system spec tab
Storage Server: Dual AMD Opteron 6120 CPUs, 64Gigs ECC Ram 50TB usable space across 3 zfs2 pools
HOURGLASS = most appropriate named ICON/CURSOR in the Windows world :-)
In a dank corner of ATI central, the carpet covered with corn flakes, the faint sound of clicking can be heard........Click......click, click............as the fate of the graphics world and the future of the human race hangs in the balance.
I know....I know........Keep my day job :-)- catcather
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seems like both have cards in the hands of AIBs right now so I don't know how true that is.Main rig: look at system spec tab
Storage Server: Dual AMD Opteron 6120 CPUs, 64Gigs ECC Ram 50TB usable space across 3 zfs2 pools
HOURGLASS = most appropriate named ICON/CURSOR in the Windows world :-)
In a dank corner of ATI central, the carpet covered with corn flakes, the faint sound of clicking can be heard........Click......click, click............as the fate of the graphics world and the future of the human race hangs in the balance.
I know....I know........Keep my day job :-)- catcather
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AMD's RDNA 3 Will Support DisplayPort 2.0 and UHBR20
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Dual 8k 120hz awesome... I just want it to run one 8k 165-240 hz.I talked to the tree. Thats why they put me away!..." Peter Sellers, The Goon Show
Only superficial people cant be superficial... Oscar Wilde
Piledriver Rig 2016: Gigabyte G1 gaming 990fx. FX 8350 cpu. XFX RX 480 GTR Cats 22.7.1, SoundBlaster ZXR, 2 x 8 gig ddr3 1866 Kingston. 1 x 2tb Firecuda seagate with 8 gig mlc SSHD. Sharp 60" 4k 60 hz tv. Win 10 home.
Ryzen Rig 2017: Gigabyte X370 K7 F50d bios. Ryzen 5800X3D :). 2 x 8 ddr4 3600 (@3200) Cas 16 Gskill. Sapphire Vega 64 Reference Cooler Cats 22.4.1. 1700 mhz @1.1v. Soundblaster X Ae5, 32" Dell S3220DGF 1440p Freesync Premium Pro monitor, Kingston A2000 1TB NVME. 4 TB HGST NAS HD. Win 11 pro.
Ignore List: Keystone, Andino... -My Baron, he wishes to inform you that vendetta, as he puts it in the ancient tongue, the art of kanlee is still alive... He does not wish to meet or speak with you...-
"Either half my colleagues are enormously stupid, or else the science of darwinism is fully compatible with conventional religious beliefs and equally compatible with atheism." -Stephen Jay Gould, Rock of Ages.
"The Intelligibility of the Universe itself needs explanation. It is not the gaps of understanding of the world that points to God but rather the very comprehensibility of scientific and other forms of understanding that requires an explanation." -Richard Swinburne
www.realitysandwich.com
www.plasma-universe.com/pseudoskepticism/
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Originally posted by bill dennison View Postwill settle for 4k/120 with ray tracing and no FSR or FSR 2.0 ultra quality from a 7900 or 7950Ryzen 7 3800X, ASUS Prime X470 Pro, KFA2 RTX 3090 SG, 16GB Crucial DDR4 LPX 3000 Ram, iiyama G-Master GB3466WQSU 3440x1440 freesync 144hz, 250gb Samsung SSD, 750mb Seagate SSHD, 2TB Seagate Barracuda H/D, 1 TB Samsung H/D, 850w PSU, Windows 10
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the two top tier 7900/7800 or 30900/3080 cards aren't going below 1000 USD for a long time
not with the inflation we got going now
it will help that few will be buying cards (or anything not needed ) with gas 6 USD dollars a gallon and going to 10 maybeLast edited by bill dennison; May 29, 2022, 12:16 AM.
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Originally posted by bill dennison View Postwill settle for 4k/120 with ray tracing and no FSR or FSR 2.0 ultra quality from a 7900 or 7950Really enjoy 3d gaming flexibility; a gamer's best friend!
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Originally posted by SIrPauly View PostFSR 2.0 in DeathLoop looks subjectively nicer than native + Taa due to the Taa implementation. And you still have VSR to try.
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Originally posted by Nagorak View PostWhat we really need is more implementation of DLAA or "FSR-AA". That way we can get the benefits of the tech without having to upsample.-Trunks0
not speaking for all and if I am wrong I never said it.
(plz note that is meant as a joke)
System:
Asus TUF Gaming X570-Pro - AMD Ryzen 7 5800x - Noctua NH-D15S chromax.Black - 32gb of G.Skill Trident Z NEO - Asus DRW-24F1ST DVD±RW - Samsung 850 Evo 250Gib - 4TiB Seagate - PowerColor RedDevil Radeon RX 7900XTX - Creative AE-5 Plus - Windows 10 64-bit
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Originally posted by Nagorak View PostWhat we really need is more implementation of DLAA or "FSR-AA". That way we can get the benefits of the tech without having to upsample.Really enjoy 3d gaming flexibility; a gamer's best friend!
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Same power requirements as the current 6000 gen. I find it odd they do a power scale that shows only gpu and then a gpu plus cpu instead of just whole system...I talked to the tree. Thats why they put me away!..." Peter Sellers, The Goon Show
Only superficial people cant be superficial... Oscar Wilde
Piledriver Rig 2016: Gigabyte G1 gaming 990fx. FX 8350 cpu. XFX RX 480 GTR Cats 22.7.1, SoundBlaster ZXR, 2 x 8 gig ddr3 1866 Kingston. 1 x 2tb Firecuda seagate with 8 gig mlc SSHD. Sharp 60" 4k 60 hz tv. Win 10 home.
Ryzen Rig 2017: Gigabyte X370 K7 F50d bios. Ryzen 5800X3D :). 2 x 8 ddr4 3600 (@3200) Cas 16 Gskill. Sapphire Vega 64 Reference Cooler Cats 22.4.1. 1700 mhz @1.1v. Soundblaster X Ae5, 32" Dell S3220DGF 1440p Freesync Premium Pro monitor, Kingston A2000 1TB NVME. 4 TB HGST NAS HD. Win 11 pro.
Ignore List: Keystone, Andino... -My Baron, he wishes to inform you that vendetta, as he puts it in the ancient tongue, the art of kanlee is still alive... He does not wish to meet or speak with you...-
"Either half my colleagues are enormously stupid, or else the science of darwinism is fully compatible with conventional religious beliefs and equally compatible with atheism." -Stephen Jay Gould, Rock of Ages.
"The Intelligibility of the Universe itself needs explanation. It is not the gaps of understanding of the world that points to God but rather the very comprehensibility of scientific and other forms of understanding that requires an explanation." -Richard Swinburne
www.realitysandwich.com
www.plasma-universe.com/pseudoskepticism/
Comment
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AMD: next-gen RDNA 3 GPU has +50% performance-per-watt over RDNA 2
AMD receives several RadeonSI RDNA NGG fixes prior to enablement of RDNA 3 GPU architecture
https://wccftech.com/amd-receives-se...-architecture/
AMD's next-next-gen RDNA 4 GPUs confirmed for 2024 on 'advanced node'
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bS3O5zg290k
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Free game bundle with new graphics card bolds well for prices for the next gen at this rate.
https://www.amd.com/en/gaming/raise-...l&utm_term=btnI talked to the tree. Thats why they put me away!..." Peter Sellers, The Goon Show
Only superficial people cant be superficial... Oscar Wilde
Piledriver Rig 2016: Gigabyte G1 gaming 990fx. FX 8350 cpu. XFX RX 480 GTR Cats 22.7.1, SoundBlaster ZXR, 2 x 8 gig ddr3 1866 Kingston. 1 x 2tb Firecuda seagate with 8 gig mlc SSHD. Sharp 60" 4k 60 hz tv. Win 10 home.
Ryzen Rig 2017: Gigabyte X370 K7 F50d bios. Ryzen 5800X3D :). 2 x 8 ddr4 3600 (@3200) Cas 16 Gskill. Sapphire Vega 64 Reference Cooler Cats 22.4.1. 1700 mhz @1.1v. Soundblaster X Ae5, 32" Dell S3220DGF 1440p Freesync Premium Pro monitor, Kingston A2000 1TB NVME. 4 TB HGST NAS HD. Win 11 pro.
Ignore List: Keystone, Andino... -My Baron, he wishes to inform you that vendetta, as he puts it in the ancient tongue, the art of kanlee is still alive... He does not wish to meet or speak with you...-
"Either half my colleagues are enormously stupid, or else the science of darwinism is fully compatible with conventional religious beliefs and equally compatible with atheism." -Stephen Jay Gould, Rock of Ages.
"The Intelligibility of the Universe itself needs explanation. It is not the gaps of understanding of the world that points to God but rather the very comprehensibility of scientific and other forms of understanding that requires an explanation." -Richard Swinburne
www.realitysandwich.com
www.plasma-universe.com/pseudoskepticism/
Comment
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AMD Radeon RX 7000 ‘RDNA 3’ Graphics Cards Rumored For Q4 2022 Launch As Early As October
Don’t buy a new GPU — AMD’s RDNA 3 could be right around the corner
AMD’s RDNA 3 GPUs are closer than ever with the many leaks pointing towards incredible performance uplifts over RDNA 2 boards with a similar power budget. For instance, we previously reported that AMD’s entry-level RDNA 3-based Navi 33 chip allegedly packs more power than the RDNA 2-based Navi 21 featured in the RX 6900 XT while only consuming between 220-250 W.
AMD’s David Wang confirmed these efficiency claims about RDNA 3 cards at the Financial Analyst Day 2022 briefing. Per Wang, RDNA 3 GPUs will provide more than 50% better performance-per-watt than the current RDNA 2 chips. Remember, AMD already claims that RDNA 2 has much better performance-per-watt than Nvidia RTX 30-series cards. With Nvidia’s RTX 40-series rumored to be more power-hungry than ever, RX 7000 series boards are looking set to keep the efficiency crown.
How is AMD getting a more than 50% jump in performance-per-watt? According to the company, it is achieving this using a 5 nm process node, advanced chiplet packaging, rearchitected Compute Units, an optimized graphics pipeline, and the new AMD Infinity Cache.
[yt]XVWzvmp2FMk[/yt]
Last edited by bill dennison; Jun 14, 2022, 03:43 PM.
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AMD's RDNA 3 series is rumored to launch sooner than expected
https://www.pcgamer.com/amds-rdna-3-...than-expected/
if they say October they should try to be in September or even August and try to beet NV to market
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AMD Rumored To Launch Its Fastest RDNA 3 GPU With Dual Graphics Dies In 2023, Up To 16,384 Cores Expected
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Wouldnt be surprised to see as many skus as what nvidia does. Even a dual gpu die with 30 000 shaders is probably doable.
If they show the package with room for another chiplet like they did for ryzen way before they announced the 12 and 16 core cpus we'll know.I talked to the tree. Thats why they put me away!..." Peter Sellers, The Goon Show
Only superficial people cant be superficial... Oscar Wilde
Piledriver Rig 2016: Gigabyte G1 gaming 990fx. FX 8350 cpu. XFX RX 480 GTR Cats 22.7.1, SoundBlaster ZXR, 2 x 8 gig ddr3 1866 Kingston. 1 x 2tb Firecuda seagate with 8 gig mlc SSHD. Sharp 60" 4k 60 hz tv. Win 10 home.
Ryzen Rig 2017: Gigabyte X370 K7 F50d bios. Ryzen 5800X3D :). 2 x 8 ddr4 3600 (@3200) Cas 16 Gskill. Sapphire Vega 64 Reference Cooler Cats 22.4.1. 1700 mhz @1.1v. Soundblaster X Ae5, 32" Dell S3220DGF 1440p Freesync Premium Pro monitor, Kingston A2000 1TB NVME. 4 TB HGST NAS HD. Win 11 pro.
Ignore List: Keystone, Andino... -My Baron, he wishes to inform you that vendetta, as he puts it in the ancient tongue, the art of kanlee is still alive... He does not wish to meet or speak with you...-
"Either half my colleagues are enormously stupid, or else the science of darwinism is fully compatible with conventional religious beliefs and equally compatible with atheism." -Stephen Jay Gould, Rock of Ages.
"The Intelligibility of the Universe itself needs explanation. It is not the gaps of understanding of the world that points to God but rather the very comprehensibility of scientific and other forms of understanding that requires an explanation." -Richard Swinburne
www.realitysandwich.com
www.plasma-universe.com/pseudoskepticism/
Comment
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Originally posted by pax View PostWouldnt be surprised to see as many skus as what nvidia does. Even a dual gpu die with 30 000 shaders is probably doable.
If they show the package with room for another chiplet like they did for ryzen way before they announced the 12 and 16 core cpus we'll know.
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wouldnt that be a pickle!
I talked to the tree. Thats why they put me away!..." Peter Sellers, The Goon Show
Only superficial people cant be superficial... Oscar Wilde
Piledriver Rig 2016: Gigabyte G1 gaming 990fx. FX 8350 cpu. XFX RX 480 GTR Cats 22.7.1, SoundBlaster ZXR, 2 x 8 gig ddr3 1866 Kingston. 1 x 2tb Firecuda seagate with 8 gig mlc SSHD. Sharp 60" 4k 60 hz tv. Win 10 home.
Ryzen Rig 2017: Gigabyte X370 K7 F50d bios. Ryzen 5800X3D :). 2 x 8 ddr4 3600 (@3200) Cas 16 Gskill. Sapphire Vega 64 Reference Cooler Cats 22.4.1. 1700 mhz @1.1v. Soundblaster X Ae5, 32" Dell S3220DGF 1440p Freesync Premium Pro monitor, Kingston A2000 1TB NVME. 4 TB HGST NAS HD. Win 11 pro.
Ignore List: Keystone, Andino... -My Baron, he wishes to inform you that vendetta, as he puts it in the ancient tongue, the art of kanlee is still alive... He does not wish to meet or speak with you...-
"Either half my colleagues are enormously stupid, or else the science of darwinism is fully compatible with conventional religious beliefs and equally compatible with atheism." -Stephen Jay Gould, Rock of Ages.
"The Intelligibility of the Universe itself needs explanation. It is not the gaps of understanding of the world that points to God but rather the very comprehensibility of scientific and other forms of understanding that requires an explanation." -Richard Swinburne
www.realitysandwich.com
www.plasma-universe.com/pseudoskepticism/
Comment
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AMD Radeon RX 7000 Graphics Cards With Rearchitected RDNA 3 GPU Compute Units To Deliver Enhanced Ray Tracing Capabilities & Even Higher Clock SpeedsBesides raytracing, David also mentioned that the Optimized Graphics Pipeline for RDNA 3 GPUs will allow for even higher clock speeds than RDNA 2 GPUs. The AMD Radeon RX 6000 cards already run close to 3 GHz so, with an improved 5nm process node, we can expect AMD to breach past the 3 GHz clock limit. This is essential for AMD as their competitor isn't holding back either with RTX 40 series rumors also hinting at up to 3 GHz clock speeds utilizing the more efficient 4N (optimized 5nm process node).
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I want to see more RT info tho. Cant just catch up to ampere when Nvidia will have updated its own RT substantially and on a smaller 4nm node.I talked to the tree. Thats why they put me away!..." Peter Sellers, The Goon Show
Only superficial people cant be superficial... Oscar Wilde
Piledriver Rig 2016: Gigabyte G1 gaming 990fx. FX 8350 cpu. XFX RX 480 GTR Cats 22.7.1, SoundBlaster ZXR, 2 x 8 gig ddr3 1866 Kingston. 1 x 2tb Firecuda seagate with 8 gig mlc SSHD. Sharp 60" 4k 60 hz tv. Win 10 home.
Ryzen Rig 2017: Gigabyte X370 K7 F50d bios. Ryzen 5800X3D :). 2 x 8 ddr4 3600 (@3200) Cas 16 Gskill. Sapphire Vega 64 Reference Cooler Cats 22.4.1. 1700 mhz @1.1v. Soundblaster X Ae5, 32" Dell S3220DGF 1440p Freesync Premium Pro monitor, Kingston A2000 1TB NVME. 4 TB HGST NAS HD. Win 11 pro.
Ignore List: Keystone, Andino... -My Baron, he wishes to inform you that vendetta, as he puts it in the ancient tongue, the art of kanlee is still alive... He does not wish to meet or speak with you...-
"Either half my colleagues are enormously stupid, or else the science of darwinism is fully compatible with conventional religious beliefs and equally compatible with atheism." -Stephen Jay Gould, Rock of Ages.
"The Intelligibility of the Universe itself needs explanation. It is not the gaps of understanding of the world that points to God but rather the very comprehensibility of scientific and other forms of understanding that requires an explanation." -Richard Swinburne
www.realitysandwich.com
www.plasma-universe.com/pseudoskepticism/
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