Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice (rel. 22nd March)

[Lazy8s]

I understand both your points, but I don't think they are objective criticisms. I think a lot of people are going to prefer the changes, since the game has been getting a lot of praise overall. But of course a lot of people will also be disappointed with the changes, because that's the nature of gamers.

I just see it as a different type of FS game, and I think its great they didn't want to just keep remaking the exact same type of game. I'm really enjoying the fresh new spin on the old formulas, and especially I think I prefer the set character and removal of the more RPG elements from Souls for a more refined and focused game. I think they will just never be able to make a game like this without people comparing it to their other games, unless they made something totally different or genre breaking. So yeah, as games Souls/bourne are probably objectively better overall since they are more robust, and Sekiro is tighter and more refined but limited. Unfortunately it will not be able to escape the comparison and will be knocked down because of it.

I'm OK with the easily missable areas since I know I will be replaying this game to explore everything I missed. However it would be nice if somewhere there are hints for the player to what they could miss.

The combat in past FS games was certainly more freeform in that you could tailor your build in so many different ways to get your preferred playstyle, and was great for replayabilty too. That's definitely not the case here and understandably people will be disappointed. But on the other hand, I think this allows FS to design a more refined combat system since they can put all their development focus on a specific character build. The results speak for themselves, the combat in this game is head and shoulders above their past games and to me that's what its all about. My favorite thing to do is Souls games is to parry everything, and this game feels like it was made for me.

As for spirit emblems, I haven't yet found it to be an annoyance but admittedly I am not a huge user of the prosthetic tools, yet anyway. So I'm hardly ever running out of them, and when I do run out seems they are plentiful enough either in enemy drops or just found in the environment. But I don't think you could make those prosthetic tool uses infinite, would just destroy gameplay balance especially when upgraded.

I honestly don't think it's fair to lay it all on the nature of gamers lol. Fromsoft made some decisions in the game that take away rather than add. Part of the big sell was the verticallity, yet I'm in a massively vertical area right now with next to no grapple points.

Being almost finished with the game I've earned the right to criticize (and praise) without being lumped in with disillusioned souls players

An advantage this game has is the tight, focused story line and brand new combat system as you mentioned, but those are also the games biggest disadvantages. I seriously doubt I'll replay this any time soon. There's no reason to as it will play out exactly the same way.

If I were a professional reviewer I would give the game very high marks, but I would also state very clearly that what the game offers is fairly limited as far as replayability.

You asked early on which I preferred between this and Nioh, and that call is much easier at this point - Sekiro for the novelty, but Nioh for the pure gaming enjoyment.

I just finished two more mini bosses - way more frustrating than a miniboss ought to be. It just sucks the enjoyment out of the moment.

[Lazy8s]

I think that change happens after you collect all three items, for me **** went down after I got the quest item from a certain underground village.

I'm not sure what else I had collected already, so possibly. I'd have to play through again and track what I picked up - probably not going to happen any time soon lol.

[Meteor_of_War]

I honestly don't think it's fair to lay it all on the nature of gamers lol. Fromsoft made some decisions in the game that take away rather than add. Part of the big sell was the verticallity, yet I'm in a massively vertical area right now with next to no grapple points.

Being almost finished with the game I've earned the right to criticize (and praise) without being lumped in with disillusioned souls players

An advantage this game has is the tight, focused story line and brand new combat system as you mentioned, but those are also the games biggest disadvantages. I seriously doubt I'll replay this any time soon. There's no reason to as it will play out exactly the same way.

If I were a professional reviewer I would give the game very high marks, but I would also state very clearly that what the game offers is fairly limited as far as replayability.

You asked early on which I preferred between this and Nioh, and that call is much easier at this point - Sekiro for the novelty, but Nioh for the pure gaming enjoyment.

I just finished two more mini bosses - way more frustrating than a miniboss ought to be. It just sucks the enjoyment out of the moment.

The part you bolded is not supposed to be meant in any derogatory way. Its just how it is, when enthusiastic fans follow a game studio, movie franchise, or anything like that, etc., its always going to be under a microscope and any change is always going to be deeply criticized. But its understandable because I'm that way too, but I try to see that and judge things on their own.

Sorry if my point came across too generalizing. I'm just trying to say I think FS is in a situation where because they basically created a beloved genre, and make fairly formulaic games even when they try to do new things, everything they make is going to be compared to their previous titles. But they clearly were trying to go in a different direction here and I respect that. Its one thing to just not like certain things they did in Sekiro, but it just always seems its being compared to Souls rather than being judged on its own and that's not entirely fair.

On the replayability thing, no doubt its nowhere near to Souls games in that area but also I cant see players doing everything in one playthrough. Things like finding all areas and items, doing every NPC quest line, trying out every prosthetic and skill, and all the upgrades. There's certainly lots to do here if you're enjoying it and want more.

Not trying to change anyone's mind, just discussing!

[Brainstew]

Bloodborne was pretty much universally loved, despite being a pretty big departure from Souls.

[Mangler]

Was it really though?

[Lazy8s]

The part you bolded is not supposed to be meant in any derogatory way. Its just how it is, when enthusiastic fans follow a game studio, movie franchise, or anything like that, etc., its always going to be under a microscope and any change is always going to be deeply criticized. But its understandable because I'm that way too, but I try to see that and judge things on their own.

Sorry if my point came across too generalizing. I'm just trying to say I think FS is in a situation where because they basically created a beloved genre, and make fairly formulaic games even when they try to do new things, everything they make is going to be compared to their previous titles. But they clearly were trying to go in a different direction here and I respect that. Its one thing to just not like certain things they did in Sekiro, but it just always seems its being compared to Souls rather than being judged on its own and that's not entirely fair.

On the replayability thing, no doubt its nowhere near to Souls games in that area but also I cant see players doing everything in one playthrough. Things like finding all areas and items, doing every NPC quest line, trying out every prosthetic and skill, and all the upgrades. There's certainly lots to do here if you're enjoying it and want more.

Not trying to change anyone's mind, just discussing!

oh same here! I apologize if I cam across as argumentative - not intended at all. I just love chatting about these games, and I completely agree. FS did sort of paint themselves into a corner... I mean, how do you really follow up something like the Soulsborne universe and keep everyone basically happy? I'm not sure that's possible. We really can be a critical bunch lol.

As far as comparing it to souls games I'm trying hard to keep it narrowed to certain principles such as difficulty and whether FS nailed that line between difficulty and available player resources, and there's a lot to be said in either direction.

For me personally this goes a bit beyond what I really enjoy combat wise, even though the wins are satisfying.

All that said, I am still loving the game, I just have to grit my teeth in certain areas and against certain enemy types, and there's still a couple of design decisions that really do take away from the experience later...

[Lazy8s]

Bloodborne was pretty much universally loved, despite being a pretty big departure from Souls.

Bloodborne is my overall favorite out of all of them at this point, for a number of reasons. Hard to do that gothic/horror/soulsy type combat any better than that imo.

[Meteor_of_War]

Bloodborne was pretty much universally loved, despite being a pretty big departure from Souls.

Trying to remember back, and I think it was received much like how Sekiro is being received.

People were enjoying the hell out of it, but also there were lots of complaints and let downs about its lack of content and features compared to previous FS games which is detrimental to replayability.

[Meteor_of_War]

oh same here! I apologize if I cam across as argumentative - not intended at all. I just love chatting about these games, and I completely agree. FS did sort of paint themselves into a corner... I mean, how do you really follow up something like the Soulsborne universe and keep everyone basically happy? I'm not sure that's possible. We really can be a critical bunch lol.

As far as comparing it to souls games I'm trying hard to keep it narrowed to certain principles such as difficulty and whether FS nailed that line between difficulty and available player resources, and there's a lot to be said in either direction.

For me personally this goes a bit beyond what I really enjoy combat wise, even though the wins are satisfying.

All that said, I am still loving the game, I just have to grit my teeth in certain areas and against certain enemy types, and there's still a couple of design decisions that really do take away from the experience later...

All good man. We've been discussing these games for the better part of 5-6 years at this point I think.

I think I mentioned it sometime last week, but I'll say again. The game is still new. We're on our first playthroughs. I'd bet if we restarted a new playthrough today I'm sure we would blow through in a few hours what probably took days the first go around. Wouldn't be surprised if our feelings change (good and bad) about a lot of the game after we've played through and digested it all for a while.

[Lazy8s]

All good man. We've been discussing these games for the better part of 5-6 years at this point I think.

I think I mentioned it sometime last week, but I'll say again. The game is still new. We're on our first playthroughs. I'd bet if we restarted a new playthrough today I'm sure we would blow through in a few hours what probably took days the first go around. Wouldn't be surprised if our feelings change (good and bad) about a lot of the game after we've played through and digested it all for a while.

Oh I'm sure. I wouldn't be surprised at all to hear of DLC for this title too. Old Japan is so rich in history (bloody as hell ) and lore I'm sure FS would have no problems finding a way to extend this IP a good bit more if they chose.

[Lazy8s]

Well, down to a boss, some general cleanup and then the final boss. I don't think I'll be doing NG+ lol.

[Lurk]

I hate you guys
Now to see if I can pass the two-hour refund mark

[Lazy8s]

I hate you guys
Now to see if I can pass the two-hour refund mark

Well, you certainly have me beat in the 'glutton for punishment' department

You never know, the combat in this just might suit you.

edit: Make sure you find Hanbei at the temple when you get there. Penalty free practice for as long as you want.

[Lurk]

Well, you certainly have me beat in the 'glutton for punishment' department

You never know, the combat in this just might suit you.

edit: Make sure you find Hanbei at the temple when you get there. Penalty free practice for as long as you want.

I followed your conversations and some of the things you guys said just made it click for me
This is the type of mature gameplay I'm looking for in this phase (ok, I bought Wet Girl on Steam for 0,47 Euros, but that doesn't count )

Anyhow, I'm almost through with my DS3 experience and I need a change of setting and pace.

Now on to see if I can handle the level of brutality.

thanks for your tip

[Lazy8s]

I followed your conversations and some of the things you guys said just made it click for me
This is the type of mature gameplay I'm looking for in this phase (ok, I bought Wet Girl on Steam for 0,47 Euros, but that doesn't count )

Anyhow, I'm almost through with my DS3 experience and I need a change of setting and pace.

Now on to see if I can handle the level of brutality.

thanks for your tip

Enjoy

I think I screwed up an ending I wanted. The game apparently locked me out of a sequence of events I needed.

Not worried about it. I'll still get a good ending, just shy a prayer bead for another upgrade.

[Lurk]

Just started and I know this is going to be intense.
Love the fluidity.
please tell me if I should keep settings down a notch, as I'm running everything maxed at 3200x1800. Would hate to see the game slow down when things get busy.
Only gripe so far running through bodies and going back to see some are sticking in the ground in funny ways.
Had to force myself to stop as the desire to explore is already strong

[Lazy8s]

Ok more Fromsoftware rant incoming.

What BS - I actually think I'm done. FS has gone so hardcore "Lets make the player miserable" that they've forgotten what makes a title good. I'm tired of the tedious, completely needless crap they've loaded this game with.
Difficult I can do. Hardcore I can do. Needless "just cuz we can" ?

Nope, done.

[Meteor_of_War]

Only had a quick play session tonight but made some progress:

Beat the Guardian Ape on my 3rd attempt. He talked a good talk but was a pushover. Truthfully, I think the size of the boss room helped immensely in that fight. It was easy to keep my distance and study his tells. Funny enough, it was the monkey poop throw move that proved to be his weakness. Wait for him to reach back then charge in. He'll jump right over you then you can turn around and attack him from behind with 3 or 4 slashes. Throw some firecrackers for a couple more. Second phase is all just deflections, jump his unblockable swipe attack and watch out for the terror build up. Done.

After that I took out the Armored Warrior across from the demon bell. That was a cool fight! Couldn't figure out what to do as I deathblowed him like 4 times, until I finally did one near the edge lol.

Just started and I know this is going to be intense.
Love the fluidity.
please tell me if I should keep settings down a notch, as I'm running everything maxed at 3200x1800. Would hate to see the game slow down when things get busy.
Only gripe so far running through bodies and going back to see some are sticking in the ground in funny ways.
Had to force myself to stop as the desire to explore is already strong

Well the game runs at a solid 60 fps for me most of the time at 2560x1440 with a 980 Ti. I get occasional dips to the low 50's but that's about it. From Software has learned how to make a good PC port since Dark Souls 2. I think you'll be OK with a 1080.

[Meteor_of_War]

Ok more Fromsoftware rant incoming.

What BS - I actually think I'm done. FS has gone so hardcore "Lets make the player miserable" that they've forgotten what makes a title good. I'm tired of the tedious, completely needless crap they've loaded this game with.
Difficult I can do. Hardcore I can do. Needless "just cuz we can" ?

Nope, done.

You're going to quit it before finishing? Just take a break man, might be all you need.

[KAC]

Ok more Fromsoftware rant incoming.

What BS - I actually think I'm done. FS has gone so hardcore "Lets make the player miserable" that they've forgotten what makes a title good. I'm tired of the tedious, completely needless crap they've loaded this game with.
Difficult I can do. Hardcore I can do. Needless "just cuz we can" ?

Nope, done.

Wow didn’t see this coming.

[Lazy8s]

You're going to quit it before finishing? Just take a break man, might be all you need.

Maybe after the game is patched. No major spoilers below.
I have an entire area I can't clear. Certain enemies with ranged attacks are able to see me through a hundred feet of solid rock and one shot me while other smaller enemies also see me and are able to run me down with their own ranged attacks.

It's one half of a certain area, and it's the direction I need to go. I checked youtube players to see if this is how it's supposed to be and it's not. I've tried at least 10 times to get through.

So I went another direction and was immediately set upon by two OP mini-bosses within 100' of each other.

Frustrating, to say the least.

[Lazy8s]

Only had a quick play session tonight but made some progress:

Beat the Guardian Ape on my 3rd attempt. He talked a good talk but was a pushover. Truthfully, I think the size of the boss room helped immensely in that fight. It was easy to keep my distance and study his tells. Funny enough, it was the monkey poop throw move that proved to be his weakness. Wait for him to reach back then charge in. He'll jump right over you then you can turn around and attack him from behind with 3 or 4 slashes. Throw some firecrackers for a couple more. Second phase is all just deflections, jump his unblockable swipe attack and watch out for the terror build up. Done.

After that I took out the Armored Warrior across from the demon bell. That was a cool fight! Couldn't figure out what to do as I deathblowed him like 4 times, until I finally did one near the edge lol.

edit: 1440p


Well the game runs at a solid 60 fps for me most of the time at 2560x1440 with a 980 Ti. I get occasional dips to the low 50's but that's about it. From Software has learned how to make a good PC port since Dark Souls 2. I think you'll be OK with a 1080.

I get slow downs to single digits on occasion with a 1070. It could be my proc or ram acting up maybe? It's been hanging on start up (the PC) on occasion - the single digit fps only lasts for a few seconds, and it's rare...

[Lazy8s]

Wow didn’t see this coming.

Well, I enjoy challenges, but couple a nasty bug with game play that goes way beyond just challenging the player and it gets old. I've never completed a game I can think just to say I did.

I'll get back to this eventually, maybe just farm materials in the meantime. Meh..

[Meteor_of_War]

Maybe after the game is patched. No major spoilers below.
I have an entire area I can't clear. Certain enemies with ranged attacks are able to see me through a hundred feet of solid rock and one shot me while other smaller enemies also see me and are able to run me down with their own ranged attacks.

It's one half of a certain area, and it's the direction I need to go. I checked youtube players to see if this is how it's supposed to be and it's not. I've tried at least 10 times to get through.

So I went another direction and was immediately set upon by two OP mini-bosses within 100' of each other.

Frustrating, to say the least.

Damn, well maybe your game save is glitched somehow? That absolutely sucks.

I get slow downs to single digits on occasion with a 1070. It could be my proc or ram acting up maybe? It's been hanging on start up (the PC) on occasion - the single digit fps only lasts for a few seconds, and it's rare...

Actually now that I think of it I've gotten than too a couple of times. Happened early on in my playthrough in the Ashina Outskirts area. Game nearly halted to a freeze for 2 seconds. I chocked it up to something loading in the background. Other than that the game crashed to the desktop once during a mini-boss fight. But for a new game though without any patches released yet I'd say its performed admirably so far.

[Lazy8s]

Damn, well maybe your game save is glitched somehow? That absolutely sucks.

I wonder, because a certain questline is closed off too. I double checked and met all the requirements, but the expected events aren't happening. I never made any earlier saves as I haven't hit that last point where I could reuse them to see all the endings. Man..81 hours lol.

I can still get to both of the last two bosses though, but I can't fully upgrade my prosthetic without clearing that one area. My inner completionist is crying right now lol.

Actually now that I think of it I've gotten than too a couple of times. Happened early on in my playthrough in the Ashina Outskirts area. Game nearly halted to a freeze for 2 seconds. I chocked it up to something loading in the background. Other than that the game crashed to the desktop once during a mini-boss fight. But for a new game though without any patches released yet I'd say its performed admirably so far.

It really is. There's one other issue, again repeatable and somewhat costly...there's a ledge hang texture that needs patching in one area in particular. You may have already run into it, but it leads to some very desirable loot. And it's an area that needs to be revisited later, so I hope they fix that. Fightincowboy on YT ran into it as well, couple of different areas.

[Meteor_of_War]

Fightincowboy on YT

Kind of OT and is not relevant at all but that dude sucks at games. It is painful to watch his playthroughs, but I do get the occasional laugh from them.

[Lurk]

maybe game needs patching?
Didn't obviously read the spoiler tag, so I don't know what this is all about, but DS3 has received quite a many patches after release.

The dead bodies in Sekiro's intro are already glitching on me, with some half buried into the ground in funny ways.

On a side note, anyone playing in Japanese with English subtitles?

[Mangler]

The game basically told me to do it, so yes, I'm playing it that way.

[Meteor_of_War]

On a side note, anyone playing in Japanese with English subtitles?

Yes.

On day one I tried both ways to see which I'd prefer and the Japanese with English subs just seems so much more fitting and authentic.

[Lurk]

will play again tomorrow. switching to Japanese as you suggested

anyone else noticing dead bodies behaving weird? I kinda miss DS3's ragdoll physics after enemies are killed

[Meteor_of_War]

Yeah dead bodies act weird at times. Usually if you walk from that area then go back and the game has to reload them. I'm too busy worrying about the living to care about the dead in this game though lol.

[Lurk]

I'm too busy worrying about the living to care about the dead in this game though lol.

hard times await me, then

p.s. from the little I've seen, I really like how FS is now forcing the player to parry vs Dark Souls where you can avoid parrying altogether (i.e. terrible players like me) and only use block

[SD-[Inc]]

hard times await me, then

p.s. from the little I've seen, I really like how FS is now forcing the player to parry vs Dark Souls where you can avoid parrying altogether (i.e. terrible players like me) and only use block

I got too good stealthing normal enemies that it hurt me when it comes to Boss encounters . So, I went back to farming a few areas and taking on all enemies by posture reduction only. Man, I now see why I suck. My parry, even on normal enemies is really off. I think I need to go back to Sekiro 101 and practice more

[Meteor_of_War]

hard times await me, then

p.s. from the little I've seen, I really like how FS is now forcing the player to parry vs Dark Souls where you can avoid parrying altogether (i.e. terrible players like me) and only use block

Yeah, my guess is they loved the parry/riposte mechanic so much they decided to make a game where it's the focus of the combat, rather than just an advanced technique like in the other games.

Parrying and visceral attacks really are the best thing about From Soft games and apparently they know that.

[Lazy8s]

Yeah, my guess is they loved the parry/riposte mechanic so much they decided to make a game where it's the focus of the combat, rather than just an advanced technique like in the other games.

Parrying and visceral attacks really are the best thing about From Soft games and apparently they know that.

Froms visceral attacks are just wicked. I'm not a huge fan of the mikiri counter in the game, but other than that I've got this down pretty tight. There's a good bit more than deflects too. A nice unblockable thrust of your own followed by a kick to the head is just satisfying as all heck.

So, I started a second game to fart around in while I decide if I want to complete the other minus some completed quest lines, and I'm having no glitches in this one. I do not have any idea why one would glitch (camera) and one does not. I've collected the first 8 prayer beads in no time at all and am at the temple in one direction, halfway through Hirata in the other, all with just one death.

Feels good

[Lazy8s]

hard times await me, then

p.s. from the little I've seen, I really like how FS is now forcing the player to parry vs Dark Souls where you can avoid parrying altogether (i.e. terrible players like me) and only use block

After learning it the deflect/slash mechanic feels more natural than Souls parry/riposte to me. Much easier. Just make sure you tap l1 on a deflects as opposed to holding it down. Light tap or two/slash/tap/slash wreck lol.

[Meteor_of_War]

Froms visceral attacks are just wicked. I'm not a huge fan of the mikiri counter in the game, but other than that I've got this down pretty tight. There's a good bit more than deflects too. A nice unblockable thrust of your own followed by a kick to the head is just satisfying as all heck.

So, I started a second game to fart around in while I decide if I want to complete the other minus some completed quest lines, and I'm having no glitches in this one. I do not have any idea why one would glitch (camera) and one does not. I've collected the first 8 prayer beads in no time at all and am at the temple in one direction, halfway through Hirata in the other, all with just one death.

Feels good

Told you man. There will also be a point, if you so choose to practice the game enough, that endgame enemies will be that easy to blow through as well.

And oh man, I am a HUGE fan of Mikiri counter. It is absolutely vital to master that move in this game.

[Meteor_of_War]

Just thought I would post this for any new players that might be confused about how to do combat in this game, or just need some fast tips. I'll try to embed the video to start at the point with the tips, but if it doesn't work just fast forward to about 8:13.

[yt]1-6lPER-QjI?t=493[/yt]

[Lazy8s]

Told you man. There will also be a point, if you so choose to practice the game enough, that endgame enemies will be that easy to blow through as well.

And oh man, I am a HUGE fan of Mikiri counter. It is absolutely vital to master that move in this game.

It isn't the combat

I thought the new game was 'clean' but just faced the camera monster twice in rapid succession, only one death from it though. Unlocked, got spun like crazy and lost the enemy, died.

No biggy I guess. It's a fairly common issue, the 180 degree turn and loss of lock on. None of the fixes I've found online work, so apparently, unless I want to chance reinstalling the game, I just have to live with it.

It is better than the first play though, at least there's that.

[SD-[Inc]]

It isn't the combat

I thought the new game was 'clean' but just faced the camera monster twice in rapid succession, only one death from it though. Unlocked, got spun like crazy and lost the enemy, died.

No biggy I guess. It's a fairly common issue, the 180 degree turn and loss of lock on. None of the fixes I've found online work, so apparently, unless I want to chance reinstalling the game, I just have to live with it.

It is better than the first play though, at least there's that.

I have a glitch where half the time I block they still hit me