Chris Roberts Space Garage Simulator: Star Citizen

[acroig]

I deal with crap similar to this at work. It's hard to be productive when you're being told what to do by people that don't know WTF they're doing.

Careful there, some of your recent posts suggest you're picking up bad habits.

[logical]

Can someone quote the exact post we are supposed to be reading I dont have an account there.

I also wouldnt put TOO MUCH stock in glassdoor because thats where a lot of people go to voice their negative concerns about a place after they got let go or something similar. The post in question(which I havent read) is probably half true and half not.

[Eisberg]

Glassdoor seems to be popular lately to be used against a developer. Glassdoor has been coming up a lot against CD Projekt, people trying to get others to change thier positive attitude towards CD Projekt. CIG and CDP have the same overall score, even a lot of the same kind of complaints and compliments even talking about the kitchen of both places.

[Eisberg]

Can someone quote the exact post we are supposed to be reading I dont have an account there.

I also wouldnt put TOO MUCH stock in glassdoor because thats where a lot of people go to voice their negative concerns about a place after they got let go or something similar. The post in question(which I havent read) is probably half true and half not.

There is no exact post, Napoleonic is just pointing towards the glass door reviews in general for CIG. There are 36 reviews posted since 2015, with an overall score of 3.6.

[nutcrackr]

Looks like they got through another year without anything major happening. Late year funding spike will hold them for a while too. I guess we won't see any big revelations for 3-6 months.

[Eisberg]

Looks like they got through another year without anything major happening. Late year funding spike will hold them for a while too. I guess we won't see any big revelations for 3-6 months.

There is still one more event this year, supposed to show and talk about something related to Squadron 42.

[Napoleonic]

Have I posted this here?

http://gameranx.com/updates/id/70033...of-everything/

Connect the dots yourself.

[acroig]

Have I posted this here?

http://gameranx.com/updates/id/70033...of-everything/

Connect the dots yourself.

Wow....

[bill dennison]

Have I posted this here?

http://gameranx.com/updates/id/70033...of-everything/

Connect the dots yourself.

the great wall of text

[acroig]

the great wall of text

Indeed but a good read on the subject.

[Cynicalking]

The article mentions Derek Smart somewhere so you know it's automatically null.

(Not kidding, go ahead and read some of the comments in the page)

[acroig]

The article mentions Derek Smart somewhere so you know it's automatically null.

(Not kidding, go ahead and read some of the comments in the page)

Of course as it covers the entire history of the project.

[Napoleonic]

the great wall of text

Tldr

1. Chris Roberts as a good game dev is a myth, he overpromised and under delivered freelancer before, just like he about to do with sc.
2. Star citizen = freelancer 2.0, squadron 42 = wing commander the movie 2.0; this crowdfunding project mess has happened before.
3. Indication that CR scammed people's money has happened before (he scammed microsoft money, by using freelancer development money to fund his Hollywood projects)
4. Indication that CR and one of his cronies have used multi companies to manipulate money before (CIG has more than a dozen sub companies now, what for?)





Add and combine that article with the reality we have in sc today, I don't think it's unfair to say this project is indeed a scam due to how much money involved and where did the money come from.

[Eisberg]

Tldr

1. Chris Roberts as a good game dev is a myth, he overpromised and under delivered freelancer before, just like he about to do with sc.
2. Star citizen = freelancer 2.0, squadron 42 = wing commander the movie 2.0; this crowdfunding project mess has happened before.
3. Indication that CR scammed people's money has happened before (he scammed microsoft money, by using freelancer development money to fund his Hollywood projects)
4. Indication that CR and one of his cronies have used multi companies to manipulate money before (CIG has more than a dozen sub companies now, what for?)

Add and combine that article with the reality we have in sc today, I don't think it's unfair to say this project is indeed a scam due to how much money involved and where did the money come from.

Got to love your Guilty Until Proven Innocent approach you and the article author got there.

[abdecken5]

Have I posted this here?

http://gameranx.com/updates/id/70033...of-everything/

Connect the dots yourself.

There is no evidence of anything untoward in the article, just conspiracy theory levels of speculation

[acroig]

Got to love your Guilty Until Proven Innocent approach you and the article author got there.

You keep making the same mistake over and over, attacking the messenger instead on focusing on the facts. The fact is that it's been 5 years and there's still no game after millions being spent.

Again, you do not need to defend this with religious fervor, just acknowledge there are serious issues and move on.

[acroig]

There is no evidence of anything untoward in the article, just conspiracy theory levels of speculation

No, there's lots more than that. See my previous post.

[Eisberg]

You keep making the same mistake over and over, attacking the messenger instead on focusing on the facts. The fact is that it's been 5 years and there's still no game after millions being spent.

Again, you do not need to defend this with religious fervor, just acknowledge there are serious issues and move on.

So you are just going to ignore the allegations of scamming and fraud since the Freelancer days in that article, and how Napoleonic and the author basically state them in a way of guilty until proven innocent?

You are rather being hypocritical as well, you should be saying something similar to Napoleonic.

[Eisberg]

No, there's lots more than that. See my previous post.

Read my previous post.

[acroig]

So you are just going to ignore the allegations of scamming and fraud since the Freelancer days in that article, and how Napoleonic and the author basically state them in a way of guilty until proven innocent?

You are rather being hypocritical as well, you should be saying something similar to Napoleonic.

Read my previous post.

See? Attacking the messenger again. There is a pattern that is being demonstrated here of how Roberts works, delays, overpromises, etc. that you simply refuse to see. I have no horse in this race but I'm trying to point out that there is cause for concern here and people should stop throwing money at this.

Instead of calling me names why don't you take the time to refute the well presented allegations on that article?

[Eisberg]

See? Attacking the messenger again. There is a pattern that is being demonstrated here of how Roberts works, delays, overpromises, etc. that you simply refuse to see. I have no horse in this race but I'm trying to point out that there is cause for concern here and people should stop throwing money at this.

Instead of calling me names why don't you take the time to refute the well presented allegations on that article?

So you are still ignoring the allegations of scamming and fraud since the freelancer days, And how they are stated in such away of looking guilty until proven innocent? That is the conspiracy level sprculstuon that abdecken5 is talking sbout, that you seem all to happy to ignore.

So how about telling Napoleonic he needs to leave out the conspiracy level speculation BS out and that he doesn't need to fight against this game like some religious fanatic?

[Eisberg]

And the only real problem for the games is Chris Roberts is bad with release dates. Everything else is related to normal for in development game, there will be a ton of bugs, there will be performance issues for everyone while the game is in development.

It being 5 years is irrelevent. Many extremely less ambitious games took more than 5 years for example Dragon Age Origins at 7 years and Diablo 3 at 11 years, GTA 5 was 5 years with a 1000 man team. I wonder how long it would have taken Rockstar to make GTA5 if they had less than half that amount of people?

[logical]

And the only real problem for the games is Chris Roberts is bad with release dates. Everything else is related to normal for in development game, there will be a ton of bugs, there will be performance issues for everyone while the game is in development.

It being 5 years is irrelevent. Many extremely less ambitious games took more than 5 years for example Dragon Age Origins at 7 years and Diablo 3 at 11 years, GTA 5 was 5 years with a 1000 man team. I wonder how long it would have taken Rockstar to make GTA5 if they had less than half that amount of people?

Time frame is very relevant. Especially when he misses his own dates constantly over and over. Lets not even talk about dates given on the kickstarter page.

[andino]

And the only real problem for the games is Chris Roberts is bad with release dates. Everything else is related to normal for in development game, there will be a ton of bugs, there will be performance issues for everyone while the game is in development.

It being 5 years is irrelevent. Many extremely less ambitious games took more than 5 years for example Dragon Age Origins at 7 years and Diablo 3 at 11 years, GTA 5 was 5 years with a 1000 man team. I wonder how long it would have taken Rockstar to make GTA5 if they had less than half that amount of people?

While there was a long time between Diablo 2 and Diablo 3 I don't believe that entire time was spent in development. I have read that the team that wrote Diablo 2 was Blizzard North. Blizzard didn't want them to write Diablo 3 as a MMO because it would compete with another MMO that they had out. So Blizzard and Blizzard North parted ways. After that the Blizzard North team went on to become Runic Games and also went on to write Tourchlight 1 and 2. Plus Blizzard was busy with this little game called World of Warcraft. You may have heard of it.

It's rumored that the entire build time for Diablo 3 was somewhere in the neighborhood of 3~4 years.

[logical]

I dont know why he keeps bringing up other games development time. They have no relevance to SC. They are game developers but nowhere in the same world in terms of management and responsibility. None of those companies took any money from people before they even had anything viable to show and play. Besides its not like SC is going to hit anywhere near the features promised in the time promised for the kickstarter. They promised all these planets and systems and people are only getting a fraction of a fraction if it ever comes out.

[Eisberg]

I dont know why he keeps bringing up other games development time. They have no relevance to SC. They are game developers but nowhere in the same world in terms of management and responsibility. None of those companies took any money from people before they even had anything viable to show and play. Besides its not like SC is going to hit anywhere near the features promised in the time promised for the kickstarter. They promised all these planets and systems and people are only getting a fraction of a fraction if it ever comes out.

You only want to say it is not relevant because you have no valid rebuttal for it. It does not matter where the money comes from, development takes time, features takes time. If other developers making much smaller games in ambition and scope take 7+ years to make a game, then how can you expect someone else to make something bigger in ambition and in scope in less time? It is not like that where the money comes from has magical powers to spend time and space. It being crowd funded doesn't mean all of sudden a game can be made faster, there there is no logical sense in that unless you believe crowd funding has the power to bend time and space

[logical]

You only want to say it is not relevant because you have no valid rebuttal for it. It does not matter where the money comes from, development takes time, features takes time. If other developers making much smaller games in ambition and scope take 7+ years to make a game, then how can you expect someone else to make something bigger in ambition and in scope in less time? It is not like that where the money comes from has magical powers to spend time and space. It being crowd funded doesn't mean all of sudden a game can be made faster, there there is no logical sense in that unless you believe crowd funding has the power to bend time and space

Where the money comes from absolutely matters. Development money comes with rules if you get it from someone/publisher/company. Scope of the game really doesnt matter in the eyes of an investor or a publisher. They know they gave you money to make a game and there is a finite amount of time for that money so they can make their money back.

This is where other game development is different from SC. They have someone at the top to whip them into shape and say "alright you guys had 5 years its time to wrap this **** up" Pressure comes down and they start to put an end to development of the game and start polishing what they have even if it doesnt come close to the original vision.

In SCs case the top guy doesnt know how to manage himself to do that. Instead of stopping at the original scope they keep adding feature on feature which adds more bugs on more bugs. They keep adding features to a game when they havent even hit the original goals for the game. Its a never ending loop of adding and fixing because the guy at the top doesnt know how to put a lid on it and push a game out. Hell most people would be happy if we had some semblance of a completed product(with limited content) and they pushed it out and saved all that promised stuff for DLC. Everyone knows the fans of the game will pay for it even if they already paid for it.

CR has a history of not being able to finish things and thats fact not Derek Smart swayed opinions. If there were some legal ramifications or CR actually had to account for the money that he has received you damn well know hes going to cut that **** short and focus on the core of the game to push it out. Again, if the core gameplay and systems were in place solid they could build around that but even the main meat of the game isnt finished.

[Eisberg]

Where the money comes from absolutely matters. Development money comes with rules if you get it from someone/publisher/company. Scope of the game really doesnt matter in the eyes of an investor or a publisher. They know they gave you money to make a game and there is a finite amount of time for that money so they can make their money back.

This is where other game development is different from SC. They have someone at the top to whip them into shape and say "alright you guys had 5 years its time to wrap this **** up" Pressure comes down and they start to put an end to development of the game and start polishing what they have even if it doesnt come close to the original vision.

In SCs case the top guy doesnt know how to manage himself to do that. Instead of stopping at the original scope they keep adding feature on feature which adds more bugs on more bugs. They keep adding features to a game when they havent even hit the original goals for the game. Its a never ending loop of adding and fixing because the guy at the top doesnt know how to put a lid on it and push a game out. Hell most people would be happy if we had some semblance of a completed product(with limited content) and they pushed it out and saved all that promised stuff for DLC. Everyone knows the fans of the game will pay for it even if they already paid for it.

CR has a history of not being able to finish things and thats fact not Derek Smart swayed opinions. If there were some legal ramifications or CR actually had to account for the money that he has received you damn well know hes going to cut that **** short and focus on the core of the game to push it out. Again, if the core gameplay and systems were in place solid they could build around that but even the main meat of the game isnt finished.

Then you have completely missed the point of crowd funding games. It is about making the developer free from the publishers and not being bound by publishers time line and schedule. It is about doing something that the publisher do not want to do. It is about letting the developers to actually realize their vision for a game.

If you cannot understand the point of crowd funding, then it is best to stop commenting on it.

And the only reason why Chris had to stop the 1 and only game in his life early, Freelancer, is because of the lack of money. Money doesn't seem to be an issue right now.

[Fuku2]

I don't think the point is about the point of crowdfunding games as intended.
I think it's about the misuse of it. The misdirection that this platform has incurred since its inception was to be expected.

Some people are greedy liars. It is those who hide themselves glaringly.
People that don't ask for much of anything might go unnoticed even though they have something more to give. Not always...

Not saying this applies to this game. I pledged the bottom amount
for the base game. I also invested in Interstellar Marines.

[logical]

Then you have completely missed the point of crowd funding games. It is about making the developer free from the publishers and not being bound by publishers time line and schedule. It is about doing something that the publisher do not want to do. It is about letting the developers to actually realize their vision for a game.

If you cannot understand the point of crowd funding, then it is best to stop commenting on it.

And the only reason why Chris had to stop the 1 and only game in his life early, Freelancer, is because of the lack of money. Money doesn't seem to be an issue right now.

I understand what crowdfunding is. Who he is part of the reason he had to go there cause pretty much no one would give him money to make his vision cause they knew it would be a cash sink. CR needs someone over him or at least someone in his ear to reign back his incessant need to want to add stuff when the base stuff isnt finished.

[nutcrackr]

only 889 bugs left https://onedrive.live.com/view.aspx?...JUTE-WqhBgAr_0

SQ42 stream on DEC 21

[Eisberg]

only 889 bugs left https://onedrive.live.com/view.aspx?...JUTE-WqhBgAr_0

SQ42 stream on DEC 21

The link you gave says "bug fixed by category" so that means there has been 889 bugs fixed.

[nutcrackr]

true enough, guess they don't do total bugs anymore

[Eisberg]

true enough, guess they don't do total bugs anymore

I think that is because of the new direction they are going with updates after 3.0.

No longer will updates be feature based releases, they are going to time based releases, so they don't need to show how many bugs need to be fixed before they release the next update, they will simply release what ever they have finished.

[Napoleonic]

http://dereksmart.com/forums/reply/6078/

You know **** get real when derek actually giving CIG some serious advice

[Eisberg]

http://dereksmart.com/forums/reply/6078/

You know **** get real when derek actually giving CIG some serious advice

Right, the guy that is trying to make a Planet Side clone since 2009 and was supposed to be finished in 2012 and failing hard at it and can't even get more than 2 people on his maps that have nothing going on in them is the one to give advice.

It is funny that you automatically assume Derek Smart is right, despite the very fact that he hasn't been right about anything of real value.

it is also pretty bad when Derek Smart can't even get something as simple as figuring out why CIG got 3 Million in 4 days before making a tweet about it and making himself look even more of a fool again. Then you decide to believe him about something as complex as game design, when he can't even get the more simple stuff? wow.

[Napoleonic]

Right, the guy that is trying to make a Planet Side clone since 2009 and was supposed to be finished in 2012 and failing hard at it and can't even get more than 2 people on his maps that have nothing going on in them is the one to give advice.

It is funny that you automatically assume Derek Smart is right, despite the very fact that he hasn't been right about anything of real value.

it is also pretty bad when Derek Smart can't even get something as simple as figuring out why CIG got 3 Million in 4 days before making a tweet about it and making himself look even more of a fool again. Then you decide to believe him about something as complex as game design, when he can't even get the more simple stuff? wow.

Where is star citizen and squadron 42 now? In your head only?

[Napoleonic]

https://www.pcpowerplay.com.au/featu...madness,479658

Oh look DS is mentioned there

[Eisberg]

Crytek suing CIG.
https://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comm...st_starcitizen
Defendants Are Developing a Separate Game Using CryEngine Without Permission (how so? They are using lumberyard licensed by Amazon)

Defendants Removed Crytek Trademarks and Copyright Notices from Their Games and Marketing Materials Without Permission (Well they are using lumberyard now, so why would they keep on showing crytek logos when they are not using thier engine)

Defendants Broke Its Promise to Exclusively Use CryEngine for the Game( Maybe? Possible Crytek broke contract first because they are a failing business and couldn't do thief end if the deal. Since we don't know the contract we don't know if this will actually stick or not.)

Defendants Disclosed CryEngine Technology to Third Parties Without Permission ( what evidence do they have?)

[nutcrackr]

Wonder why CIG don't just settle out of court. Should be able to rustle up a few million.