Chris Roberts Space Garage Simulator: Star Citizen

[aviphysics]

Which means that the article has been automatically debunked, that everything else said in that article is also most likely a lie as well. If these ex employees went through the trouble to create their own ID badges as proof, then that brings into question the validity of what they are saying. If they are willing to lie about the validity of the badges, then what else are they willing to lie about? If Sandi has 2 black people working with her, that again brings into question the validity of what has been said.

Also they are prepared to go into litigation with all their proof that Escapists has published a slanderous article, and they would not do that if they actually do have proof.

So the answer is, real former staff who went through the trouble of creating fake badges for themselves to help give some validity during vetting.

Basically this. However, if they are faking badges and lying about hiring discrimination, I don't see any reason to believe that some or all of them weren't even CIG employees.

Of course this is the internet, where the accused are guilty until proven innocent and it is impossible for anyone to prove what they didn't say. Wish I realized that a decade ago so I could have gotten on the money side of that internet rag journalism deal.

[aviphysics]

Dude, don't try and argue with the fanatics in this thread. You could literally post a video of Sandi looking straight into the camera and calling the viewer a n****r and they would say it's fake / false / taken out of context.

Personally, I would demand proof of those accusations against anyone.

Peoples' lives shouldn't be ruined because someone went online and called them a racist without evidence to back it up.

Hell, they don't even have to mass release whatever hard evidence they have, if they are at least willing to show it to a real trusted journalist that will vouch for its veracity.

[BababooeyHTJ]

So, there has been so little to show for this game that stuff like this so easily overshadows the game itself?

Every bit of news about this game for quite a while now has very little to do with the game itself.

FFS, this game has damn near the development budget of gta v.

[Arrowhead]

100 million dollars acquired and they get extremely defensive about negative press which tells me that they still need people to preorder $900 ships in order to keep this project afloat.

If things are so good over there financially wise, they wouldn't over react to crap people like Smart and anonymous sources spew on the internet. CR themselves are feeding the negative publicity for one reason or another. My gut tells me that they are still desperate for funding from fans and that's a very bad sign at this stage.

[Eisberg]

100 million dollars acquired and they get extremely defensive about negative press which tells me that they still need people to preorder $900 ships in order to keep this project afloat.

If things are so good over there financially wise, they wouldn't over react to crap people like Smart and anonymous sources spew on the internet. CR themselves are feeding the negative publicity for one reason or another. My gut tells me that they are still desperate for funding from fans and that's a very bad sign at this stage.

When they are being accused of federal and state crimes you bet they would want to respond to that.

[Arrowhead]

When they are being accused of federal and state crimes you bet they would want to respond to that.

No, unless being accused by an actual authority, the better approach remains to answer something like 'Derek who?' if they are ever seriously asked about anything related to what is said. The less said, the more confidence portrayed. It's basic crisis management.

[nutcrackr]

Back in early july one of the devs posted that the space marine module would be done in weeks (not months+).

Early Oct and it's delayed again (with no estimate)

lels

Reading up on the BabyPU (persistent universe) they were originaly going to do 5 systems with 1 landing point each. Now they are going to do one fully complete system with 4 landing points. Basically considered the best system so it will give them an idea on how long it takes etc.

[Woodgypsy]

The whole saga has been more entertaining than many games....

I firmly believe that if some of their more severe allegations were true, there would be videos of CR and Sandi spouting racial slurs and obscenities all over the internet. Basically everyone at CIG probably has a smartphone and you constantly see them out in videos, so it wouldn't be that hard to capture a recording or a picture of an e-mail.

I just have a very hard time buying their allegations.

Well, it is a "gaming journalism" website, so we cannot expect it to practice quality journalism. That being said, no current employee will raise this kind of allegation with their name attached -- doing so will surely jeopardize their job, and will likely put them into legal ramifications. Good luck fighting against these CIG lawyers. Similarly, no former employees who wish to stay in the gaming industry would do so, neither -- no corporation will hire a whistle-blower, however justifiable whistle-blowing is. There are reasons why no employee blows whistle against their employers (remember VW?). It sucks, but it is the way it is -- though I do believe whistle-blowers should have much better legal protection. I wouldn't blame Escapist for not releasing the names of their contacts.

I don't think there will ever be a final product that meets what was promised. The fact that they are outsourcing development to other studios with very little connection to the core development of the game means assets are going to vary and people will get partial products as "modules" which is total bullshit.

You do not expand or change roadmaps and scope of the game on the fly, its a sign of no actual plan or organization in the project.

Maybe this is why no publisher or studio has worked with Roberts for years...

The logistics of managing a large-scale, geographically-dispersed project is no joke. This is especially the case when the said project is run by people who are inexperienced at running such a project, and everyone who works for the project are new employees/contracts. There's a good reason that all successfully released Kickstarter games came from small, tight-knit teams or medium-sized corporations with established track records. If anything, I would be surprised if CR manage to pull it off.

When they are being accused of federal and state crimes you bet they would want to respond to that.

I know that the Internet likes to accuse of crimes -- the thing is, the govt is not going to go after everything that might be a whitecollar crime. If CIG evaded the tax or siphoned some of that "100 million" to Roberts's personal bank account, sure. But we aren't having that kind of accusations just yet.

That being said, I had been skeptical about the amount of funds which CIG claims that it has raised. Even accounting for the humanity's collective stupidity, it seems implausibly high. This is my speculation, but I wouldn't be too surprised if they are inflating the number, most likely by using the black market trades; this, of course, would be a serious crime....

Finally, when the whole thing implodes, I bet that CR is going to blame Escapist and Derek Smart.

[badboy]

http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2015/10/04/star-citizen-drama-continues-as-cig-threatens-legal-action-over-recent-article.aspx?

Star Citizen Drama Continues As CIG Threatens Legal Action Over Recent Article

Fight fight fight!

[SoCalMX70]

Eh, pretty glad I haven't put anything into this, BUT I am still hoping that at a good chunk of Chris' promises come to fruition! PC gaming needs games like this to be successful imo.

I won't judge until there is a game out or CIG folds. Hopefully is the former.

[bittermann]

I understand being passionate about a game. I also understand investing money in a kick-starter game if that is your thing. I also understand it takes quite a bit of time to program such a game and that there will be delays. What I don't understand is some people are paying $1000 for a digital picture of a ship on a promise of someday being able to digitally command/fly it in a game that hasn't even been released yet??? Its not even in an alpha stage from what I understand. As well as these are digital pictures, i.e., reproducible infinitely so not one of a kind. Is their common sense and fan boy blinder's so far out of whack that it allows them to lose all self control? So much drama around something not even out yet....wow

[BababooeyHTJ]

Not even in alpha? Wow, this is no small budget title.

[Mangler]

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/pledge/Combos/The-Completionist-Digital

I'm sure it will move out of alpha faster if you guys buy a couple of these packs.

[bittermann]

The completionist pack...separating all your money from your bank account. That is the highest $$ amount I've ever seen for "gaming" anything.

[daPhoenix]

I swear this will be the biggest flop in gaming since the Atari crash of '83.

[Arrowhead]

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/p...ionist-Digital

I'm sure it will move out of alpha faster if you guys buy a couple of these packs.

That's a tad over my credit limit. Sorry Chris Robber...

[aviphysics]

So, there has been so little to show for this game that stuff like this so easily overshadows the game itself?

Every bit of news about this game for quite a while now has very little to do with the game itself.

FFS, this game has damn near the development budget of gta v.

Accusations of sexism and racism can over shadow any achievement. If those accusations were true, I think it would be well deserved. In this case, I just don't see the evidence to back up those accusations. There is even a certain amount of evidence to prove at least a minimum degree of deception from the so called sources.

[aviphysics]

No, unless being accused by an actual authority, the better approach remains to answer something like 'Derek who?' if they are ever seriously asked about anything related to what is said. The less said, the more confidence portrayed. It's basic crisis management.

DS is employing a serious attorney to file a case against CIG that these sorts of allegations could have an effect on, so whether or not they are true matters from a legal perspective.

[bittermann]

DS is employing a serious attorney to file a case against CIG that these sorts of allegations could have an effect on, so whether or not they are true matters from a legal perspective.

So is he counter suing now that they've threatened a law suit?

[aviphysics]

Back in early july one of the devs posted that the space marine module would be done in weeks (not months+).

Early Oct and it's delayed again (with no estimate)

lels

Believe me that this is definitely an issue that backers have been really bothered by, not that we don't regularly see these kinds of unexpected delays in the gaming industry.

For me, as long as CIG keeps up the communication and appears to be making progress, I am reasonably happy okay.

Reading up on the BabyPU (persistent universe) they were originaly going to do 5 systems with 1 landing point each. Now they are going to do one fully complete system with 4 landing points. Basically considered the best system so it will give them an idea on how long it takes etc.

Releasing 1 more fully fleshed out system to start instead of 5 half baked systems sounds like a good idea to me. I would use the term "Baseline" instead of "Best". They have indicated their long term plans are to add more to each system. For example, using procedural generation to create explorable terrain.

[aviphysics]

So is he counter suing now that they've threatened a law suit?

DS started putting together a law suit after CIG issued him an involuntary refund.

It basically demands that CIG offer everyone refunds, disclose all their financial documents and turn over control of the business. My understanding is that the main point the case argues is that failing to make certain deadlines has caused CIG to breach its contract with backers. I expect the Guard Frequency podcast to have some coverage of this in this week's release. They seem to be taking the issue pretty seriously, but don't think DS has a strong enough argument to actually win the case.

At the very least, the suit has the potential to be a serious pain in the rear.

[Arrowhead]

DS started putting together a law suit after CIG issued him an involuntary refund.

What did CIG gain by issuing him a refund? Why did they acknowledge him in the first place? That's where this thing started snowballing.

[aviphysics]

What did CIG gain by issuing him a refund? Why did they acknowledge him in the first place? That's where this thing started snowballing.

That could be true, but it doesn't change the fact that DS is a giant troll.

The reason they refunded him the money was that DS was running a campaign to make it appear like a large percentage of backers were demanding refunds. Basically, the guy was trying to convince others to create a run on the bank scenario.

DS did things like
* misusing a list of backers that had signed up with an organisation by re-branding it as a list of backers that had signed a petition to demand refunds.
* misrepresenting the results of internet poll that asked "should CIG make refunds available" as the percentage of backers that are demanding refunds (wanting the option for a refund isn't the same as demanding a refund.)

Based on what I know about the history between DS and CR, this seems to go back to the success of Wing Commander and the failure of Battlecruiser 3000AD. Apparently back then DS felt strongly enough to sue CR/Origin with the claim that Wing Commander was a ripoff of BC3000AD (they had originally been in development at the same time, but BC3000AD suffered massive delays.) I haven't played BC3000AD, but I can't even imagine what his argument was, as they seem to be totally different.
Edit:Still searching for a solid reference for the Wing Commander suit. From what I have found so far, it looks like it was throne out. I fear the internet might just not be old enough to have really solid information on it.

[logical]

Not of all this matters - Derek Smart, The Escapist, negative press

The only thing that matters is they barely have a shell of a game to show. Like I said, no one would care about Derek Smart or even Sandi hating black people and being completely unqualified for the job she has if they had an amazing game delivered in the time frame stated. No one wants to hear that you need to push it back more, or need to scale back what you initially stated would be in the game, or anything else for that matter. All people care about is that you got more then an ample amount of money for funding, you have had two years to work on it now deliver the goods plain and simple.

The reason the negative press continues is probably because there is some truth to them. They have the money now give the backers a tangible product they can play. Not updates showing what your working on, not updates showing whats coming, not promises of whats to come but the damn product. Hell, just give people 35% of what they game is supposed to be so they know they didnt just really donate to your California mansion.

Bottom line - Release what you got and if its good no one will say **** at all.

[aviphysics]

Not of all this matters - Derek Smart, The Escapist, negative press

The only thing that matters is they barely have a shell of a game to show. Like I said, no one would care about Derek Smart or even Sandi hating black people and being completely unqualified for the job she has if they had an amazing game delivered in the time frame stated. No one wants to hear that you need to push it back more, or need to scale back what you initially stated would be in the game, or anything else for that matter. All people care about is that you got more then an ample amount of money for funding, you have had two years to work on it now deliver the goods plain and simple.

The reason the negative press continues is probably because there is some truth to them. They have the money now give the backers a tangible product they can play. Not updates showing what your working on, not updates showing whats coming, not promises of whats to come but the damn product. Hell, just give people 35% of what they game is supposed to be so they know they didnt just really donate to your California mansion.

Bottom line - Release what you got and if its good no one will say **** at all.

People care about racist and sexist BS.

Just look at what happened to Bill Cosby as soon as those rape allegation started to surface (before there was even solid evidence)

BTW, 2 years really isn't that long. Project Cars took 3 and a half years from the release of their first semi-playable alpha to final product. The first release of Arena Commander was just a little more than a year ago.

[bittermann]

I'd imagine this type game takes at least 5-7 years for a good base game then another 3-5 for adding content/patches...space simulators are monster games.

[mavman]

And here we are, playing right into Mr.DS's little plan (whatever that may be, I have long since given up trying to understand that person's logic)
My recommendation is to avoid this whole deal, stay away from the inter-trolls, and have a nice little laugh and giggle next year when we are all playing SC.

In the interim, I wish CR&co. good luck, and hope they don't fumble the ball. Because, seriously, ask yourself if you would rather be playing Line of Defence...seriously. Think hard.

[logical]

People care about racist and sexist BS.

Just look at what happened to Bill Cosby as soon as those rape allegation started to surface (before there was even solid evidence)

BTW, 2 years really isn't that long. Project Cars took 3 and a half years from the release of their first semi-playable alpha to final product. The first release of Arena Commander was just a little more than a year ago.

How much finding did PCars have? How many employees working on it? 260+?

No one cares about all that racist and sexist bs. Its only a story cause the game isnt out.

[BababooeyHTJ]

How much finding did PCars have? How many employees working on it? 260+?

No one cares about all that racist and sexist bs. Its only a story cause the game isnt out.

Well, this game has damn near the development funding of GTA V. That is nuts. How could there be so little to show for it?

[logical]

Well, this game has damn near the development funding of GTA V. That is nuts. How could there be so little to show for it?

Exactly my point.

[nutcrackr]

CitizenCon is coming in days, so I guess they'll have stuff to show.

Like ship concepts.

[Napoleonic]

How much finding did PCars have? How many employees working on it? 260+?

No one cares about all that racist and sexist bs. Its only a story cause the game isnt out.

Well, this game has damn near the development funding of GTA V. That is nuts. How could there be so little to show for it?

Idiots like you are the reason of this nonexistant issue that turned out to be something fueled by derek smart assholey

Pcars and gta v are nothing compared to qhat SC trying to be, it's like comparing a supercar with a space shuttle

CR said it the best, had CIG stick to simple WC style game with only squadron 42 to boot, by now the game would be near complete; but there would be nothing special with such a game

[logical]

Tone down the personal name calling. We are not the reason the game hasn't been released or why development is slow.

Again the game not being near complete or worth anything at this point has nothing to do with Derek Smart. CiG Fans keep clinging to Derek Smart being the issue. The issue is the game not being as far along as it should be and deadlines and release dates being pushed back.

[Eisberg]

Logical, I think you are being unreasonable. They have only been in deveopment for a little over 2 years, what they are trying to make is obvisiouly going to take longer than that.

And no, this is all happening because of Derek Smart the troll because of his jealousy that has lasted for 20 or more years. If Derek Smart has not started this nobody would care.

[BababooeyHTJ]

It's like a lot of these rap stars or sports figures that make a killing and blow it all. You have to wonder if a guy like this can run a project that large. He's gotten the funding that many aaa titles don't see. What is there to show for it?

I'm not invested in this title. I don't care what happens. I'm just skeptical. I could easily be proven wrong. Just like many skeptics.

I still think that ftl is the best game to come from a kickstarter. A game which I didn't back. Most of the higher budget titles have failed to impress.

[andino]

At this point though, I'd be shocked if there were not a multitude of lawsuits tossed around.

[nutcrackr]

Logical, I think you are being unreasonable. They have only been in deveopment for a little over 2 years, what they are trying to make is obvisiouly going to take longer than that.

"The development of the game started in 2011 with building a demo on a modified version of the CryEngine 3 game engine,"

4 years.

3 years since crowdfunding was successful.

[Eisberg]

"The development of the game started in 2011 with building a demo on a modified version of the CryEngine 3 game engine,"

4 years.

3 years since crowdfunding was successful.

Didn't the kickstarted end in April of 2013?

[nutcrackr]

Didn't the kickstarted end in April of 2013?

November 20, 2012
Successfully raised $2,134,375 USD with 34,397 backers
(it was 5.5 million when you include money from their own site)

Their last kickstarter update was in April.

[SirBaron]

Man it's been 3 years already, crap what happened to all that time