Chris Roberts Space Garage Simulator: Star Citizen

[Arrowhead]

Derek Smart vindicated? He should just quit trying to be a programmer and go into investigative journalism. He actually seems good at that.

[Eisberg]

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jasoneva...n-is-to-blame/

Almost out of cash lol. Nine independent and "verified" sources are saying there are troubles.

Here are the comments from sources

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/arti...of-the-Company

Chris Robert's reply makes some good points though, points out some fishy stuff that really shows Derek "Duckface" Smart is behind all of this still, who most likely got these disgruntled ex-employees to his side to start putting out rubish.

[Eisberg]

I like this comment on the Escapist article and matches exactly how I feel. I am not a backer either. But everything about this Escapist article just reeks of Derek "Duckface" Smart.

If Derek Smart is right then it will be the first time in his life that has ever happened. Derek Smart has been trolling the space sim genre nearly since its inception. You can only cry wolf so many times.

If he is right then no loss for me. I'm not a backer and have no dog in this fight. However I'm more inclined to believe the man who made Wing Commander over the guy who has been griefing the industry for over 20 years now.

[aviphysics]

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jasoneva...n-is-to-blame/

Almost out of cash lol. Nine independent and "verified" sources are saying there are troubles.

Here are the comments from sources

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/arti...of-the-Company

I firmly believe that if some of their more severe allegations were true, there would be videos of CR and Sandi spouting racial slurs and obscenities all over the internet. Basically everyone at CIG probably has a smartphone and you constantly see them out in videos, so it wouldn't be that hard to capture a recording or a picture of an e-mail.

I just have a very hard time buying their allegations.

As for income, this is the best YTD earning CIG has ever had.
Jan-Sep 2013 = $13,253,162
Jan-Sep 2013 = $19,733,211
Jan-Sep 2013 = $21,108,920

Source

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1tMAP0fg-AKScI3S3VjrDW3OaLO4zgBA1RSYoQOQoNSI/edit#gid=1694467207

[Saggypoo]

Chris Robert's reply makes some good points though, points out some fishy stuff that really shows Derek "Duckface" Smart is behind all of this still, who most likely got these disgruntled ex-employees to his side to start putting out rubish.

There's a few posts on Reddit that points to the article possibly quoting people on Glassdoor. Some of the quotes even being word for word as what was posted in the article, and only posted up to 5 days before the article was published. So unless they read their review during the interview or they were able reproduce their interview when they posted to Glassdoor, it starts to make the article suspect. Yeah the Escapist posted a rebuttal to all these claims, but it's hard to deny how vague and unsubstantiated the claims are.

Granted, I only have $20 invested in this game. If it never sees the light of day, I'm not going to throw some huge hissy fit.

[Greasy]

I hope they can kill it with the game, because I LOVE space games, but I just wanted Squadron 42.

Volition - Please make a new free space game!

[Eisberg]

I hope they can kill it with the game, because I LOVE space games, but I just wanted Squadron 42.

Volition - Please make a new free space game!

If Volition put out a Kickstarter to do another Freespace game, I would help fund that.

[FoxBat]

I firmly believe that if some of their more sever alligations were true, there would be videos of CR and Sandi spouting racial slurs and obscenities all over the internet. Basically everyone at CIG probably has a smartphone and you constantly see them out in videos, so it wouldn't be that hard to capture a recording or a picture of an e-mail.

Good luck not getting the person who took or posted those videos personally identified.

Yes industry is messed up enough to not hire people that tell on such practices.

It also isn't something that has to be an everyday occurrence for it to stick in the minds of the most disgruntled employees. Someone in power saying (and meaning) just once "we aren't hiring a black girl" is enough to earn a well deserved racist label and to make for a tense work environment for some.

[aviphysics]

Good luck not getting the person who took or posted those videos personally identified.

Yes industry is messed up enough to not hire people that tell on such practices.

It also isn't something that has to be an everyday occurrence for it to stick in the minds of the most disgruntled employees. Someone in power saying (and meaning) just once "we aren't hiring a black girl" is enough to earn a well deserved racist label and to make for a tense work environment for some.

Some people might not hire them and others would consider them a hero.

Besides, I think you could release an audio recording without identifying yourself.

As for that statement, as best as I can tell, only one source made that claim and there isn't any proof to back it up. Even if they really did think they heard that statement, it could have been something they miss heard. For example, the statement "we are not hiring THAT black girl" sounds very similar, but is more of a dangerous way of identifying a person without knowing there name then an outright racial slur. I say dangerous, because it is so easy to read that as racist, even if it isn't intended.

Finally the source seems to be indicating that the racist and profain behavior happened a lot, which is why I say it is surprising that no one has made a candid audio or video recording and released it on-line.

[theshadowcult]

Good luck not getting the person who took or posted those videos personally identified.

Yes industry is messed up enough to not hire people that tell on such practices.

It also isn't something that has to be an everyday occurrence for it to stick in the minds of the most disgruntled employees. Someone in power saying (and meaning) just once "we aren't hiring a black girl" is enough to earn a well deserved racist label and to make for a tense work environment for some.

"we aren't hiring a black girl" is racist. we aren't hiring THE black girl, would be a sentence that could get you flag as racist, but isn't racist in it's self.

[aviphysics]

A formal response letter was sent by the Co-Founder and Vice Chairman of CIG to John Keefer, the managing editor of The Escapist magazine. He informs Keefer about one of their sources he verified by seeing a photo of a company ID card with the name blocked out. He writes, "You might be interested to know that CIG does not issue any company ID cards at any of its studios."

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/c...o-The-Escapist

-ripped from a post by an orgmate.

The letter also describes how several of the allegations are provably false, such as Sandi having personally hired African Americans and CIG employing several people above or near the age of 40 (given that they don't pay very well and the long hours, it makes sense that the staff would generally be younger.)

It then goes on to demand an apology, retraction, and third party investigation and threatens legal action if the magazine fails to comply.

[Eisberg]

Ouch, that is not good for Escapist magazine at all. Hopefully they feel a good enough punishment for what they did, as in at the very least a lot less revenue and the embarrasment of such shoddy journalism.

[logical]

Escapist replied to that awhile ago too:

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/video-games/14727-The-Escapist-Explains-Its-Star-Citizen-Sources-Vetting-and-Respo

CR reply is retarded half of the **** is about Derek Smart and none of the article written by Escapist has to do with him. Its pretty plain to see that CR has pissed away most of that money and they have missed many deadlines for the game. Nepotism is in place as well as he hired his wife(who he finally confirmed is his wife) to head marketing and she doesnt have any marketing experience. He hired his brother to head one of the studios as well. They have some convention coming up and if they dont show some finshed part of the game instead of some new ships they are going to get a crazy **** storm.

[Mangler]

Considering how successful the marketing for space garage has been, it would seem that she was the right person for the job.

[Arrowhead]

Considering how successful the marketing for space garage has been, it would seem that she was the right person for the job.

A multimillion dollar project with the promise of a be all end all space sim? This **** sold itself.

No doubt these guys can sell. What remains to be seen though is if they can deliver.

[logical]

Considering how successful the marketing for space garage has been, it would seem that she was the right person for the job.

Thats what CR would have you believe but like Arrow said it sold itself through the power of the internet and word of mouth.

[|MaguS|]

I don't think there will ever be a final product that meets what was promised. The fact that they are outsourcing development to other studios with very little connection to the core development of the game means assets are going to vary and people will get partial products as "modules" which is total bullshit.

You do not expand or change roadmaps and scope of the game on the fly, its a sign of no actual plan or organization in the project.

Maybe this is why no publisher or studio has worked with Roberts for years...

[aviphysics]

Escapist replied to that awhile ago too:

...

Follow the link again. The letter I am referring to is a recent update to that post. BTW, the new letter was written by John Keefer (CIG's co-founder and resident lawyer.)

[logical]

Follow the link again. The letter I am referring to is a recent update to that post. BTW, the new letter was written by John Keefer (CIG's co-founder and resident lawyer.)

Didnt see the update with the letter. Makes no difference though, no amount of letters are going to help them finish the game that they promised.

[aviphysics]

I don't think there will ever be a final product that meets what was promised. The fact that they are outsourcing development to other studios with very little connection to the core development of the game means assets are going to vary and people will get partial products as "modules" which is total bullshit.

You do not expand or change roadmaps and scope of the game on the fly, its a sign of no actual plan or organization in the project. If CR has one thing going for him, it is a good enough attention to detail to keep a unified design language across the game.

Maybe this is why no publisher or studio has worked with Roberts for years...

Gameplay is currently represented as different modules, but everything runs in the same engine. The art style doesn't look fragmented and neither is the software.

Development has not gone as smoothly as anyone would have liked, but I think your judgement that the final product will be fragmented is baseless.

[aviphysics]

Didnt see the update with the letter. Makes no difference though, no amount of letters are going to help them finish the game that they promised.

There is a difference between a company failing because they can't do the job and a company failing because a campaign of BS to undermine the integrity of its staff. The Escapist article seems to be clearly part of the latter.

Personally, I don't see improvements as often as I like, but I do see progress and it seems to me like it will eventually get there.

If you expect them to suddenly release a game with all the promised features and content all at once, you will be disappointed.

If you expect a Minecraft like development process, with the gradual addition of features over many many years, I think you will find them able to deliver.

[logical]

There is a difference between a company failing because they can't do the job and a company failing because a campaign of BS to undermine the integrity of its staff.

Personally, I don't see improvements as often as I like, but I do see progress and it seems to me like it will eventually get there.

If you expect them to suddenly release a game with all the promised features and content all at once, you will be disappointed.

If you expect a Minecraft like development process, with the gradual addition of features over many many years, I think you will find them able to deliver.

Im not a backer, but if I were I would expect them to deliver the game they promised in the timeline they stated themselves with the kickstarter. I would be pretty pissed if I put money into it and got what they have out right now (little "modules" that dont really amount to anything)... man Id be super pissed if I were one of those whales they have who bought hundreds of dollars worth of ships.

[aviphysics]

Thats what CR would have you believe but like Arrow said it sold itself through the power of the internet and word of mouth.

I don't know what is better, recognizing that Sandi is good at her job or attributing the success of the campaign to the quality of the vision.

I don't really see a problem with either.

[aviphysics]

Im not a backer, but if I were I would expect them to deliver the game they promised in the timeline they stated themselves with the kickstarter. I would be pretty pissed if I put money into it and got what they have out right now (little "modules" that dont really amount to anything)... man Id be super pissed if I were one of those whales they have who bought hundreds of dollars worth of ships.

I play regularly, so I feel in a descent position to say that the modules don't just do nothing (I have gone over those details in the past, so feel free to search my posts in this thread for more info.)

There are AAA multi player games these days that, IMO, offer less gameplay value (I am especially looking at all those multi-player only FPS's that are becoming a thing.)

BTW, anyone who joins a Kickstarter and expects the product to be delivered on schedule is a fool.

[Mangler]

I'd say that a company that is able to sell virtual ships for thousands of dollars are doing a pretty good job in the marketing department.

[logical]

I play regularly, so I feel in a descent position to say that the modules don't just do nothing (I have gone over those details in the past, so feel free to search my posts in this thread for more info.)

There are AAA multi player games these days that, IMO, offer less gameplay value (I am especially looking at all those multi-player only FPS's that seem to becoming a thing.)

BTW, anyone who joins a Kickstarter and expects the product to be delivered on schedule is a fool.

What triple A game has less gameplay value than this?

I'd say that a company that is able to sell virtual ships for thousands of dollars are doing a pretty good job in the marketing department.

Id say they have some rabid fans that will eat up anything. As far as marketing for the ships I havent seen one advert for any of the ships only when websites post news for the ships costing so damn much. That wouldnt be attributed to Sandi doing her job but just how ridiculous it is for them to be offering more ships(at ridiculous prices) without even finishing the core game.

[Eisberg]

Escapist replied to that awhile ago too:

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/video-games/14727-The-Escapist-Explains-Its-Star-Citizen-Sources-Vetting-and-Respo

CR reply is retarded half of the **** is about Derek Smart and none of the article written by Escapist has to do with him. Its pretty plain to see that CR has pissed away most of that money and they have missed many deadlines for the game. Nepotism is in place as well as he hired his wife(who he finally confirmed is his wife) to head marketing and she doesnt have any marketing experience. He hired his brother to head one of the studios as well. They have some convention coming up and if they dont show some finshed part of the game instead of some new ships they are going to get a crazy **** storm.

That link is not a response to the new letter sent to Escapist. You need to read the new letter, it gives some pretty damning evidence against what the Escapist said and show that the Escapists published an article with no real evidence at all. Like how can they vet these ex employees by seeing the name badges from CIG when there are no badges exist from CIG in the first place? Right now it looks like Escapist either needs retract the article and give a public apology, or face litgation for publishing a slanderous article with no proof at all, in which CIG stated they would pursue if they do not retract/apology.

[logical]

That link is not a response to the new letter sent to Escapist. You need to read the new letter, it gives some pretty damning evidence against what the Escapist said and show that the Escapists published an article with no real evidence at all. Like how can they vet these ex employees by seeing the name badges from CIG when there are no badges exist from CIG in the first place? Right now it looks like Escapist either needs retract the article and give a public apology, or face litgation for publishing a slanderous article with no proof at all, in which CIG stated they would pursue if they do not retract/apology.

Already addressed that. I didnt see the update to the update. Again no amount of letters or retractions are going to help them get this game out.

[Eisberg]

Already addressed that. I didnt see the update to the update. Again no amount of letters or retractions are going to help them get this game out.

Yeah, neither would a slanderous article that can potentially cost them all kinds of money since the article makes accusations of them breaking federal and state laws. makes other accusations that could also cost them money. So yeah, in fact these letters and getting retractions would help them get the game out because it wouldn't potentially take money away from them for development.

[logical]

Yeah, neither would a slanderous article that can potentially cost them all kinds of money since the article makes accusations of them breaking federal and state laws. makes other accusations that could also cost them money. So yeah, in fact these letters and getting retractions would help them get the game out because it wouldn't potentially take money away from them for development.

Nah, they got 90 million from funding and counting one lawyer isnt going to make or break this game. Not to mention they are already years into development. So if they dont have a near complete or complete game this still doesnt matter. Besides they are choosing to fight the escapist.

You know what would silence the critics? Finish the game in a timely manner and release what you promised and then everyone will stfu.

Just release another ship for pre-order to pay for the lawyer.

[aviphysics]

Nah, they got 90 million from funding and counting one lawyer isnt going to make or break this game. Not to mention they are already years into development. So if they dont have a near complete or complete game this still doesnt matter. Besides they are choosing to fight the escapist.

You know what would silence the critics? Finish the game in a timely manner and release what you promised and then everyone will stfu.

Just release another ship for pre-order to pay for the lawyer.

The defamation of character of the founders and company is pretty damaging. When the article was first released, you could see the impact from the dip in the gray market ship prices. If some of these claims were actually true and could really be backed by evidence, I would surely expect the company to collapse just from a lack of funding.

Getting this BS taken care of is important for the company to be able to continue operations and continue to deliver progress.

[Eisberg]

Nah, they got 90 million from funding and counting one lawyer isnt going to make or break this game. Not to mention they are already years into development. So if they dont have a near complete or complete game this still doesnt matter. Besides they are choosing to fight the escapist.

You know what would silence the critics? Finish the game in a timely manner and release what you promised and then everyone will stfu.

Just release another ship for pre-order to pay for the lawyer.

They should not fight the Escapist that printed a slanderous article that can cause legal and finacial problems? I am not a backer either, but if i was I wouldn't want to them to spend a ton of the backer money to fight against this slanderous article. What they are doing is protecting themselves and making sure this doesn't cost them more money and into legal issues with the government.

[logical]

The defamation of character of the founders and company is pretty damaging. When the article was first released, you could see the impact from the dip in the gray market ship prices.

Getting this BS taken care of is important for the company to be able to continue operations and continue to deliver progress.

Finishing the game is more important. I dont even know why they are still taking funds even though they got damn near 100 million already. No one will give a **** about an escapist article or Derek Smart making accusations about a company if the real deal game is released.

People are probably starting to see the writing on the wall and started to stop pre-ordering **** for a game they dont even have yet.

[Eisberg]

Finishing the game is more important. I dont even know why they are still taking funds even though they got damn near 100 million already. No one will give a **** about an escapist article or Derek Smart making accusations about a company if the real deal game is released.

People are probably starting to see the writing on the wall and started to stop pre-ordering **** for a game they dont even have yet.

Goverment agencies are not going to care if the game is released or not. The article accuses them of breaking federal and state laws, that is serious, and the proper agencies are not going to care if the game is done or not.

Being slanderous about where the money is going and saying they are not actually making a game can cause the backers to want their money back, can cause them financial problems, but if they can assure them that the article is false, then the backers would be less likely to want money back.

They already addressed the release of the game a long time ago. The backers should already know that it is a huge ambitious game that is going to take time to finish beyond the stated release date on Kickstarter.

it wouldn't take long for this article to turn things for an extreme worse, faster than they can get the game out, and if they do not address it then they can lose thier money and time in actually finishing the game.

So this is very important for them to address, because if they don't it could cause them to not finish the game.

[logical]

Im sure CR will get the best, most expensive, lawyer to fight it.

[Eisberg]

Im sure CR will get the best, most expensive, lawyer to fight it.

Which takes money away from development. But what they are doing now can make it so it is a whole lot cheaper and doesn't take anywhere near as much money away from development.

[nutcrackr]

The letter just says we don't issue id cards and Sandi has hired two black people.

Wow, they completely refuted that one! Especially when they just go ahead and say that it's a bunch of staff members that have ganged up together to spread "lies" so which is it? Real former staff, or fake former staff?

The guy who wrote the letter founded the company with Chris btw.

[Cyko]

Dude, don't try and argue with the fanatics in this thread. You could literally post a video of Sandi looking straight into the camera and calling the viewer a n****r and they would say it's fake / false / taken out of context.

[Eisberg]

The letter just says we don't issue id cards and Sandi has hired two black people.

Wow, they completely refuted that one! Especially when they just go ahead and say that it's a bunch of staff members that have ganged up together to spread "lies" so which is it? Real former staff, or fake former staff?

The guy who wrote the letter founded the company with Chris btw.

Which means that the article has been automatically debunked, that everything else said in that article is also most likely a lie as well. If these ex employees went through the trouble to create their own ID badges as proof, then that brings into question the validity of what they are saying. If they are willing to lie about the validity of the badges, then what else are they willing to lie about? If Sandi has 2 black people working with her, that again brings into question the validity of what has been said.

Also they are prepared to go into litigation with all their proof that Escapists has published a slanderous article, and they would not do that if they actually do have proof.

So the answer is, real former staff who went through the trouble of creating fake badges for themselves to help give some validity during vetting.

[nutcrackr]

Which means that the article has been automatically debunked, that everything else said in that article is also most likely a lie as well. If these ex employees went through the trouble to create their own ID badges as proof, then that brings into question the validity of what they are saying. If they are willing to lie about the validity of the badges, then what else are they willing to lie about? If Sandi has 2 black people working with her, that again brings into question the validity of what has been said.

Also they are prepared to go into litigation with all their proof that Escapists has published a slanderous article, and they would not do that if they actually do have proof.

So the answer is, real former staff who went through the trouble of creating fake badges for themselves to help give some validity during vetting.

According to some sources / pictures. The id cards are basically security cards into the building of CIG.

I think ultimately I just want this whole process to be opened. Be nice if they shared financials. Anyway, come end of Monday it looks like something will happen.

I also read somewhere else that Sandi's claim of a degree at UCLA was proven false, and possibly other degrees she claimed to have. Not being used for anything...yet