Chris Roberts Space Garage Simulator: Star Citizen

[aop]

When Derek Smart **** talks you for not managing to deliver you should realize there is something terribly wrong with your product.

[nutcrackr]

It will be years before this game is out and disappoints people. I guess 2019 is probably a good estimate for completion. The project is just so huge. They should have stoped at $30 million and aimed to make a game for $20. Then we might have seen it 2016 or so.

VP of marketing being his wife is kinda funny though.

[acroig]

What does he care, really?

It's not his money, it's not his game, it's really none of his business.

He can make a long page and word vomit all over it, but it doesn't mean he is right, or even close to being right. Maybe he is right, but we won't know that until the games are released. And by then, this article will have been long forgotten.

He cares the same way we all do, we're gamers and want to play the game. Question is, will there ever be one. And he was an initial backer so in a way it was his money.

He did pledge 250 bucks.

Right, they just gave it back to him.

[vertual]

He pledged $250.......and got a refund.....and now he is talking to his legal department about it.



[edit: There is caring, and there is acting like a tool, starting investigations, taking everything as potentially criminal.

Any gamer who thinks "Legal Team" in terms of a customer angry at a game making company can no longer really call themselves a gamer. They are a troll at that point.

Really, you are going to sue? For what, breach of Kickstarter? Breach of what you thought they would do with money you threw at them? Making a bad game?

**** right off, Derek.

[acroig]

He pledged $250.......and got a refund.....and now he is talking to his legal department about it.

Did you read the article?

[_TiTaNiuM]

Man, some of you guys are really fired up about that article.

I seriously don't understand how anyone looked at the kickstarter and thought "these are realistic goals"

molyneux'd so hard.

[mavman]

Guys, this is the equivalent of the supreme leader of Best Korea coming out and saying there are unicorns and space monkeys and that North Korea is best Korea.

Come on, anyone that has been in gaming for years knows exactly the stunts Derek Smart pulls. I am not one pro or con Star Citizen, but this Derek Smart guy has a history of making a lot of noise about things...to drum up interest in his own business dealings. I am pretty sure he will get a lot of attention and then launch his own game/product.

If you want to read anything, read this - his magnup opus game Battlecruiser 3000AD took 7 years, and was an utter piece of garbage.

http://www.3000ad.com/press/ds_interview_cgw0401.jpg

[badboy]

Derek smart

Who the hell would listen to this guy anymore??

[acroig]

Come on, anyone that has been in gaming for years knows exactly the stunts Derek Smart pulls. I am not one pro or con Star Citizen, but this Derek Smart guy has a history of making a lot of noise about things...to drum up interest in his own business dealings. I am pretty sure he will get a lot of attention and then launch his own game/product.

All true, but I think he has made valid points nonetheless.

[acroig]

Dev response

"Hey guys!

I believe I can clarify this. We refunded Mr. Smart’s package because he was using Star Citizen as a platform to gain attention as part of a campaign to promote his ‘Line of Defense’ space game. Our ToS (or in this case, the Kickstarter ToS) allows us to refund troubled users who we would rather not have interacting with the community. The process lets us entirely disable their accounts, preventing them from playing the finished game. Think of it as the video game equivalent of a ‘we reserve the right to refuse service to anyone’ sign in a restaurant. We’ve used this ability a limited number of times in the past, always with the aim of improving the community (until today, the most famous example being our old friend jcrg99/Manzes/PonyMillar/he of many other alts.)

I do now want to stress that that is not to say you can get your money back by simply being as obnoxious as possible; we’re also able to ban accounts from the forums without requiring a refund. But sometimes we take a look at a user and decide that they’re so toxic or their intentions are so sinister that we simply don’t want them associated with Star Citizen.

As for refund requests working the other way: per the ToS, we’re not required to offer them. We do try and work with backers who are facing hardships, but the hard truth is that the money is by necessity being spent to develop a game rather than sitting unused somewhere (that being the significant difference with Steam; those refunds are taken out of their games’ profits rather than their development budgets.) "

https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/5304637/#Comment_5304637

[logical]

"Hey guys!

I believe I can clarify this. We refunded Mr. Smart’s package because he was using Star Citizen as a platform to gain attention as part of a campaign to promote his ‘Line of Defense’ space game. Our ToS (or in this case, the Kickstarter ToS) allows us to refund troubled users who we would rather not have interacting with the community. The process lets us entirely disable their accounts, preventing them from playing the finished game. Think of it as the video game equivalent of a ‘we reserve the right to refuse service to anyone’ sign in a restaurant. We’ve used this ability a limited number of times in the past, always with the aim of improving the community (until today, the most famous example being our old friend jcrg99/Manzes/PonyMillar/he of many other alts.)

I do now want to stress that that is not to say you can get your money back by simply being as obnoxious as possible; we’re also able to ban accounts from the forums without requiring a refund. But sometimes we take a look at a user and decide that they’re so toxic or their intentions are so sinister that we simply don’t want them associated with Star Citizen.

As for refund requests working the other way: per the ToS, we’re not required to offer them. We do try and work with backers who are facing hardships, but the hard truth is that the money is by necessity being spent to develop a game rather than sitting unused somewhere (that being the significant difference with Steam; those refunds are taken out of their games’ profits rather than their development budgets.) "

https://forums.robertsspaceindustrie...omment_5304637

No refunds suckers, we got youre money deal with it.

[Sundance Kid V2]

No refunds suckers, we got youre money deal with it.

[Eisberg]

All true, but I think he has made valid points nonetheless.

Anyone can make something sound "valid". Just for the fact that it is coming from Derek Smart, makes it all drivel anyways. He has no credibility, and he is nothing more than a joke in the games industry, again he is the equivalent to Eww Boll.

[acroig]

Anyone can make something sound "valid". Just for the fact that it is coming from Derek Smart, makes it all drivel anyways. He has no credibility, and he is nothing more than a joke in the games industry, again he is the equivalent to Eww Boll.

Speak for yourself. How many games have you made? Right, zilch. Despite of his personality he makes valid points and there's plenty of people of the RSI forums that are saying the same things he is.

[SirBaron]

Wonders if acroig is Derek Smart

[acroig]

Wonders if acroig is Derek Smart

Look, I know he's a douche but what he's saying here just makes sense to me. Call me crazy.

Happy f'ing b-day, BTW.

[Eisberg]

Speak for yourself. How many games have you made? Right, zilch. Despite of his personality he makes valid points and there's plenty of people of the RSI forums that are saying the same things he is.

I don't need to be a doctor to know if my doctor is a good one, I learn that over time dealing with my doctor. Just like I do not need to be a developer to know that Derek Smart has no credibility, and reading anything from him is just drivel.

Find someone with real credibility that is saying the same thing as he is, then I may listen.

[acroig]

Find someone with real credibility that is saying the same thing as he is, then I may listen.

It's your choice to do so or not, I have no agenda either way.

[ThirdEye]

So is this game done yet?

[daPhoenix]

So is this game done yet?

It sure is, you can download it from here:

[aviphysics]

So is this game done yet?

They have released a dog fighter mode (Arena Commander). When it works, it is pretty cool. IMO, dog fighting in SC is way more fun than Elite; however, it still has a number of bugs that interrupt gameplay.

Arena Commander curently has the following modes
-Death Match
-Team Death Match (though the current match maker doesn't place your friends on the same team)
-Racing
-Capture the flag (same match making problem as team death match)
-multiplayer/singleplayer free flight
-multi/single player vs progressively more difficult enemy waves (vandull swarm)

Number of maps
-2x (team) death match, vandul swarm, freeflight
-3x Racing
-1x capture the flag

Nearly all the single seat ships are flyable and there are a lot of them. There is also a decent weapon selection. Too much of this stuff to list here.

You can earn REC in game to rent most stuff relatively painlessly. For this reason , anyone that wants to try the game now shouldn't look any further than the base package. If you really like space dog-fighting and are willing to put up with the bugs, I think you can get your $45 worth of entertainment. I have easily logged way more hours in Arena Commander than Elite, which cost me $60.

I am obviously disappointed that FPS module is delayed, but I have already gotten a lot of fun out of the game and watching the dev process, so it isn't a huge deal to me. My main annoyance is what I imagine is likely the long delay for Squadron 42.

[theshadowcult]

Find someone with real credibility that is saying the same thing as he is, then I may listen.

That is not how wisdom works. It's the words that are important, not who they come from. It doesn't matter if he's a serial killer, a rapist, a 5 year old child or the president. Correct is correct and if it makes sense it makes sense.

[acroig]

That is not how wisdom works. It's the words that are important, not who they come from. It doesn't matter if he's a serial killer, a rapist, a 5 year old child or the president. Correct is correct and if it makes sense it makes sense.

Agreed and well said. +rep.

[GatsuTheBerserk]

That is not how wisdom works. It's the words that are important, not who they come from.

I don't want to get into this argument, but I just wanted to point out that words are meaningless, facts are important.


Anyway I just hope it doesn't come out same day as Half Life 3!

[SirBaron]

I just think for how long it's been in development and how much cash they have I was expecting more by now. They should have just worked on Squadron 42 first, screw the rest of the stuff, they can do all that after they release a game.

[aviphysics]

Well, I have been watching the dev process since the beginning. Some situations they have got into bug me, but it really doesn't seem like the sky is falling.

I haven't wanted to give that guy the click through, but everything I have read about him and from what he wrote that has been reposted elsewhere, he seems like a jack@&% that is spinning half truths to make it look like the facts fit his narrative.

[aviphysics]

I just think for how long it's been in development and how much cash they have I was expecting more by now. They should have just worked on Squadron 42 first, screw the rest of the stuff, they can do all that after they release a game.

Squadron 42 is being worked on in parallel. They don't publish much specifically from it because spoilers and stuff, but there was a pretty big leak not that long ago with a bunch of details from SQ42.

[SirBaron]

Squadron 42 is being worked on in parallel. They don't publish much specifically from it because spoilers and stuff, but there was a pretty big leak not that long ago with a bunch of details from SQ42.

I wants mah sp space.

[Greasy]

I wants mah sp space.

I'm actually more interested in that than star citizen. I hope it doesn't suck!

[aviphysics]

I pledged to play SQ42, but along the way found a really fun Org to play with. Also, a really good IRL friend got into it.

[logical]

I think a lot of people are focusing on who the message about Star Citizen is coming from rather than his message. If you just skip around the parts where its "me me me" he actually has some good information there. I feel like they gave him his money back not because he was using Star Citizen as a platform to promote his own game but he actually has valid points and he was a backer who paid with valid complaints.

The scope of the game has been(and was since day 1) too big for even a seasoned company with hundreds of people behind it. I am sure they will deliver on SOME of the stuff but never on ALL of the stuff. The thing here is the time frame... its been pushed back and there are no solid answers when to expect anything. Just that "we have enough funding to finish the game".. no **** you got 80 million+.

If they are really confident in their product living up to the standard the backers hold them to offer refunds. If people really believe you will finish in a timely manner then they will not get a refund. The poll on their forums shows a little less than 30%(last time I checked) want the option of having a refund. 30% is a lot of people and a lot of funding money.

They need to start showing the product and what it can do rather than telling people what it will do at some point and time and then offering more ships to buy.

[aviphysics]

I have been told by others that they have worked out refunds for people that have contacted customer service.

It makes sense that it is not an official policy, as they don't have the money to give a mass refund. It would to me seem morally questionable to make a commitment like that.

On top of that, they need their credit to look good so they can rent equipment/space. It might cause problems if they had an official guaranteed refund policy.

In short, you can probably get a refund if you ask for it, but they just dont guarantee that.

[acroig]

I don't want to get into this argument, but I just wanted to point out that words are meaningless, facts are important.


Anyway I just hope it doesn't come out same day as Half Life 3!

, right you are!

[acroig]

Squadron 42 is being worked on in parallel. They don't publish much specifically from it because spoilers and stuff, but there was a pretty big leak not that long ago with a bunch of details from SQ42.

I wants mah sp space.

I'm actually more interested in that than star citizen. I hope it doesn't suck!

+1

[acroig]

I think a lot of people are focusing on who the message about Star Citizen is coming from rather than his message. If you just skip around the parts where its "me me me" he actually has some good information there. I feel like they gave him his money back not because he was using Star Citizen as a platform to promote his own game but he actually has valid points and he was a backer who paid with valid complaints.

The scope of the game has been(and was since day 1) too big for even a seasoned company with hundreds of people behind it. I am sure they will deliver on SOME of the stuff but never on ALL of the stuff. The thing here is the time frame... its been pushed back and there are no solid answers when to expect anything. Just that "we have enough funding to finish the game".. no **** you got 80 million+.

If they are really confident in their product living up to the standard the backers hold them to offer refunds. If people really believe you will finish in a timely manner then they will not get a refund. The poll on their forums shows a little less than 30%(last time I checked) want the option of having a refund. 30% is a lot of people and a lot of funding money.

They need to start showing the product and what it can do rather than telling people what it will do at some point and time and then offering more ships to buy.

[aviphysics]

They are showing people what the product can do as things progress.

Anyone who doesn't think k that is the case is paying zero attention to the constant stream of information, sneak peaks and Arena Commander updates (well haven't been so many AC updates lately, but as they have admitted, there have been some blockers that needed to get fixed for the material they wanted to add.)

[SirBaron]

They are doing a lot of work no denying that, I just think one of the main problems is they chose the Cryengine 3.

I could have told them that it was a bad idea Damn thing requires a near total rewrite to work good with space sims.

[logical]

They are showing people what the product can do as things progress.

Anyone who doesn't think k that is the case is paying zero attention to the constant stream of information, sneak peaks and Arena Commander updates (well haven't been so many AC updates lately, but as they have admitted, there have been some blockers that needed to get fixed for the material they wanted to add.)

How much of the shown material is actually in the hands of the backers though? They can show all they want but if you cant play it the point is moot.

[aviphysics]

They are doing a lot of work no denying that, I just think one of the main problems is they chose the Cryengine 3.

I could have told them that it was a bad idea Damn thing requires a near total rewrite to work good with space sims.

Without being a game programmer, this does seem to be the case. I would be interested in reading a full explanation from CiG.

[Napoleonic]

problem is, back then in 2911 or 2012 around that time when CR had his idea, there was no other established engine that could compete with CE3, UE4 was not available yet and what was the other option? Unity4? while engines like space engine would have near zero 'support' for fps universe he wanted.

building their own engine would definitely make this game can only be released in 2020 or something