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    Removing Drivers the Hard Way

    So, I'm pretty anal about keeping my systems free of unneeded drivers. I am running Windows 7 Ultimate 64Bit on everything in the house now. I just upgraded the Office PC after replacing the motherboard, processor and RAM and adding a new HDD. See sig for specs of all systems.

    One driver that I've had difficulty removing on all the systems is the "HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Enum\Root\LEGACY_MSAHCI" entry.

    If you install Windows with AHCI enabled and don't provide 3rd Party Drivers using F6 during the install, you get the msahci.sys driver installed. After you update to your chipset manufacturer's specific AHCI/SATA drivers, msahci.sys still loads and you can find it in Device Manager under the "Non-Plug and Play Drivers" section when you choose to Show Hidden Devices.

    Uninstalling it from there does not work because it comes back on the next boot, nor does disabling the msahci Service located at "HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\services\msahci". In order to disable it, you need to set the "Start" value to "3", Hex or Decimal, as both are the same for that particular value.

    You have to delete the Enum/Root/LEGACY_MSAHCI key to get rid of it AND disable the Service. However, you cannot simply fire up regedit and delete the entry. You have to right-click the entry, select Permissions, click Advanced, select the Owner tab, select your name, click "Replace owner on subcontainers and objects", then click Ok, then select the Everyone group and then check the Full Control checkbox and then finally click Ok. Sheesh!

    Once you've done all that, you can empty or delete the Key, reboot and msahci.sys no longer loads. If you ever need to re-enable the msahci driver, you can simply enable the msahci Service entry again in the registry and the Legacy key will get recreated. To enable the msahci service, set the "Start" value to "0".

    Why am I telling you all of this? Well, since disabling the msachi driver, I've noticed quantifiable performance improvements with disk operations. Copying disk-to-disk is faster with measurable performance differences using Resource Monitor. The Disk spends more Active time at 80-100% than before and throughput is greatly increased. When doing disk-to-disk xfers, Explorer wouldn't always show the correct number of files or the actual size of the folder(s) being copied. This is no longer an issue.

    Boot times are shorter as well, with the system being "ready to go", more quickly and programs launch faster after a fresh boot than they used to. The disk seems to spend less time "getting ready" than before. I tested this on 3 systems here at the house, all of them AMD based with either the SB750 or SB850 Southbridges. I am using the AMD Sata drivers from Catalyst 10.7.

    A way to avoid this scenario possibly is to use the "F6" method during the installation of Windows. However, if you aren't using the "Standard AHCI 1.0 Serial ATA Controller" driver and for some reason msahci.sys is still loading, you should consider disabling it.

    Hope you find this useful.

    Peace.

    IMPORTANT: For those reading this, make SURE you are using 3rd Party AHCI/SATA drivers BEFORE you remove or disable the msahci driver and Service!!! If you aren't absolutely sure, DON'T DO THIS! Removing these entries will make your system NON-BOOTABLE AND WILL CAUSE A BSOD ERROR OF 0X0000007b. Here is detailed information and troubleshooting for that error: Link
    Last edited by Dr. Zhivago; Aug 9, 2010, 08:24 AM. Reason: Clarification

    #2
    Originally posted by Dr. Zhivago View Post
    So, I'm pretty anal


    Thanks for the post. Excellent stuff!

    Comment


      #3

      Comment


        #4
        Noted and I'll check my system and see if it still loads. I went from the msahci to the AMD driver. If anything, loading less drivers will speed up booting.

        Comment


          #5
          Hey Figgy, I'd wager a large amount of money that you'll find it still there. Can you please post back with your experience after removing it. I know I didn't clarify how to disable the msahci Service entry. In case you don't know, you need to set the "Start" value to "3". Hex or Decimal, doesn't matter.

          Peace.

          Original post will be updated with this information.

          Comment


            #6
            I have an intel system and tried this and Windows just blue screened on startup.
            I couldn't find the legacy_msahci but i did find the msahci service and changed the value from 0 to 3.
            JOIN #RAGE3D ON GAMESNET! talk, tech support, and to fill the channel!!!

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              #7
              Was the BSOD Error code 0x0000007b? It blue screened because you are using the msahci driver most likely and disabling the service causes the Inaccessible_boot_device error. Did you ever install Intel AHCI/SATA Drivers?

              I will need to add some caveats to the original post. For those reading this, make SURE you are using 3rd Party AHCI/SATA drivers BEFORE you remove or disable the msahci driver and Service!!!

              Comment


                #8
                Im using the latest Intel driver, I'll try it again and see what the error is. It would start the cool logo thing then quick flash of blue then restart.

                edit: yup error code 7b, so maybe the Intel driver is reliant on the MSahci service?

                Edit2: after looking at the driver, it is dependent on the MSAHCI service, so this might just be a AMD only tweak.

                Last edited by Hippo; Aug 9, 2010, 12:16 PM.
                JOIN #RAGE3D ON GAMESNET! talk, tech support, and to fill the channel!!!

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                  #9
                  I checked and I also had msahci still loading. Followed your steps and rebooted with no problems. msahci is gone from the non-pnp list now in the device manager My system is AMD also.

                  I'll do some stuff and post back later with my findings.

                  Thanks man

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Ahhh good old AMD southbridges...



                    /Runs off with his superior Intel chipsets...
                    "Curiosity is the very basis of education and if you tell me that curiosity killed the cat, I say only that the cat died nobly." - Arnold Edinborough

                    Heatware

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by gamefoo21 View Post
                      Ahhh good old AMD southbridges...



                      /Runs off with his superior Intel chipsets...
                      Superior because it depends on the MS AHCI driver how?

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by Dr. Zhivago View Post
                        Hey Figgy, I'd wager a large amount of money that you'll find it still there. Can you please post back with your experience after removing it. I know I didn't clarify how to disable the msahci Service entry. In case you don't know, you need to set the "Start" value to "3". Hex or Decimal, doesn't matter.

                        Peace.

                        Original post will be updated with this information.
                        You're right, it was there. I removed it with your instructions and rebooted. Now I wish that I had ran some benchmarks before I did, because I ran hdtune 2.55 and got pretty much the same performance as always, but it showed -1% cpu usage. Then I ran a custom benchmark in Passmark on the hard drive and cpu usage was at 2% read and 3% write. I'm gonna throw around some large files between drives and see if anything different crops up and also test out write performance.
                        Last edited by FiggyG; Aug 9, 2010, 02:51 PM.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by Hippo View Post
                          Im using the latest Intel driver, I'll try it again and see what the error is. It would start the cool logo thing then quick flash of blue then restart.

                          edit: yup error code 7b, so maybe the Intel driver is reliant on the MSahci service?

                          Edit2: after looking at the driver, it is dependent on the MSAHCI service, so this might just be a AMD only tweak.

                          The driver files shown are stock to a Windows 7 install. You have not loaded any from Intel. That's why disabling the msahci Service caused your problem. Are you SURE you installed AHCI/SATA drivers or just the Chipset Drivers? You would need the Intel Matrix Storage Drivers most likely.

                          EDIT: The Chipset *.inf file is what is responsible for the verbose labeling of the Intel ICH9 description and NOT because any driver files were loaded that were written by Intel.
                          Last edited by Dr. Zhivago; Aug 9, 2010, 03:31 PM.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by gamefoo21 View Post
                            Ahhh good old AMD southbridges...



                            /Runs off with his superior Intel chipsets...
                            This has NOTHING to do with AMD OR Intel. It is strictly to do with the way Windows handles migrating from one type of IDE/ATA/SATA Controller driver to another. Hippo is incorrect in assuming that Intel Drivers are dependent on a STOCK WINDOWS DRIVER.

                            This isn't the only case of drivers being left in purgatory in the Registry. It happens all the time. Maybe I'll write an article of how to remove "Ghosts" and then you'll understand. In the meantime, please keep your negative, non-relevant, ignorant comments to yourself please.

                            Peace.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              I installed the drivers that are in the .inf package from Intel. I dont think my board has support for the intel matrix storage but ill try installing them.

                              EDIT: So your mostly right Zhivago. For intel chipsets the Intel(R) Rapid Storage Technology driver needs to be installed and then the MS service can be turned off. But this driver only applies to people with ICH southbridges that support RAID or is a mobile chipset. In my case, mine doesn't support those things. For example mine is ICH9, what i need is ICH9R or 9m.

                              this is from the latest .inf from the chipset installer:


                              From the RST driver:
                              Last edited by Hippo; Aug 9, 2010, 04:58 PM.
                              JOIN #RAGE3D ON GAMESNET! talk, tech support, and to fill the channel!!!

                              Comment


                                #16
                                So, as I said the Chipset *.inf just gives a verbose name the the ICH. It doesn't "load" drivers, it only points to the msahci service.. I did not research what board you had.

                                Do you remember if the "Standard AHCI 1.0 Serial ATA Controller" was listed in the IDE ATA/ATAPI Controllers section before you installed the Intel Chipset Drivers?

                                Thanks for the feedback.

                                Comment


                                  #17
                                  most likely, but no i don't remember.
                                  JOIN #RAGE3D ON GAMESNET! talk, tech support, and to fill the channel!!!

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                                    #18
                                    Alright, copy that. Thanks again.

                                    Sorry you had difficulties.

                                    Comment


                                      #19
                                      Intel board owners should install the RST drivers. Chipset drivers should be installed first, from elevated command line using /overall switch, then the RST driver and toolbox can be installed. reboot between both is not necessary, but should be done after the RST.

                                      Comment


                                        #20
                                        Originally posted by FiggyG View Post
                                        You're right, it was there. I removed it with your instructions and rebooted. Now I wish that I had ran some benchmarks before I did, because I ran hdtune 2.55 and got pretty much the same performance as always, but it showed -1% cpu usage. Then I ran a custom benchmark in Passmark on the hard drive and cpu usage was at 2% read and 3% write. I'm gonna throw around some large files between drives and see if anything different crops up and also test out write performance.
                                        Copy that Figgy. Let us know what you find!

                                        Peace.

                                        Comment


                                          #21
                                          So many testy people... Geepers...

                                          I was just teasing, I've had my fair share of both systems, and I have nightmares on both sides, mind you almost all the deal breaker boards were Asus or Biostar...

                                          I actually owned an Nforce 1 + Athlon system... *shudders*
                                          "Curiosity is the very basis of education and if you tell me that curiosity killed the cat, I say only that the cat died nobly." - Arnold Edinborough

                                          Heatware

                                          Comment


                                            #22
                                            I checked on two systems of mine tonight, an 890FX and a 790G. Both running Windows 7, both had AMD drivers loaded at install time. The 890 rig didn't have the MSAHCI service or driver installed, but the 790 did, presumably because it includes info on the 785/750 chipsets and saw the disks and raid array before the AMD drivers were loaded.

                                            EDIT - No, it was loading the MSAHCI driver because the board has a JMicron JMB361 eSATA port. As soon as I installed the latest drivers for that, no more MSAHCI.
                                            Last edited by caveman-jim; Aug 19, 2010, 08:18 PM.

                                            Comment


                                              #23
                                              Intewesting. Thanks for the update Jimbo!

                                              Comment


                                                #24
                                                I don't see the point of deleting the Enum/Root/LEGACY_MSAHCI key, all that does is stop the msahci driver showing up under non plug and play devices it doesn't do anything extra, you'd get the same benefit from just setting the start type to 3.

                                                See, driver is stopped, meaning it hasn't been loaded, it really doesn't matter that it's visible.

                                                Intel Core i5 [email protected]|8GB DDR3|MSI Z68A GD65(G3)
                                                ATI Radeon HD 5870 1GB|Asus Xonar D2X|Crucial 128GB M4
                                                Intel X-25M 80GB|Corsair AX750|Corsair 650D

                                                Comment


                                                  #25
                                                  Well, that is also true. But, I like a clean registry.

                                                  Comment


                                                    #26
                                                    Originally posted by Dr. Zhivago View Post
                                                    Well, that is also true. But, I like a clean registry.
                                                    Any chance on the guide for cleaning out the ghost devices, been a sys admin for years and need to learn something new.

                                                    Comment


                                                      #27
                                                      Originally posted by NemesisUK View Post
                                                      Any chance on the guide for cleaning out the ghost devices, been a sys admin for years and need to learn something new.
                                                      Done. And Done.

                                                      Cheers!

                                                      Comment


                                                        #28
                                                        Originally posted by Dr. Zhivago View Post
                                                        Done. And Done.

                                                        Cheers!
                                                        Excellent, cheers

                                                        Comment


                                                          #29
                                                          OP you are correct on this for AMD boards.
                                                          Mine was msahci in the devices too and what I was seeing was when defragmenting with win7 defrag my C drive it would take a long time to analyze and if I clicked defrag D and or E of the same DISK while it was working on C, it would buzz and lag real bad, I thought that cant be right wtf is it buzzing so bad for? not crunching like drives do but actual buzzing like a tattoo gun maybe worse.

                                                          After doing this, its like night and day, no buzzing and lagging.
                                                          I dont really see a increase in winrar benchmark but the multitasking different programs and multiple disk access is much smoother, not the bottleneck it was before.

                                                          Highly recommend.


                                                          thanks !!



                                                          PS
                                                          dont accidently set msisadrv to disabled like I did...my PS2 keyboard and numerous system devices were like, "wtf!!".
                                                          Luckily I noticed that I, for some reason, set the wrong one to disabled...I think my CRT use for 10+ years is making me go blind.
                                                          Last edited by Cartel; Jul 6, 2015, 04:58 AM.
                                                          CPU validated GPU validated

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