Intel 12x00 series Alder lake

[12Bass]

So far, I've been working on memory OC stability. I've got 4000 15-15-15-32 Gear1 stable which is pretty awesome. I seem to have a good IMC on this chip, so I might have a good overclocker on my hands - it's a V batch (vietnam) and those typically have good silicon from what I've seen in the 12900K binning threads. I'm running my RAM at settings that other people need 1.38v SA for. I'm at 1.31v and I may be able to go lower, I just set it to 1.31 for testing purposes to make sure my IMC isn't causing test failures.

FWIW, with my 8700K, XMP set VCCSA and VCCIO too high and I got more stable overclocks reducing them to stock levels, or just a little higher.

I'm curious to see some benchmarks with tweaked low latency, high speed DDR4 on Alder Lake. Most of the DDR4/DDR5 comparisons I've seen have used vanilla DDR4 3600 with XMP. Guessing that it would narrow the gap even further, perhaps even beating DDR5 in several applications, at least until we get higher rated DDR5....

[Nunz]

Tuned DDR4 is faster every time vs DDR5 4800 in real-world usage Anyone running Hynix DDR5 can easily OC and beat the best DDR4 on the market, though.

There are Samsung and Hynix chips in some of the DDR5 kits that are overclocking extremely well, especially Hynix.

There is no longer VCCIO with Alderlake. Now you have VDDQ and VCCSA as well as VDIMM. It's honestly a little less complicated since you don't necessarily HAVE to tune your RTL/IOL anymore to get decent results like you did with Comet Lake.

[Nagorak]

It's missing 4 E cores which I'm not really worried about.

The most important part is that you will not find good P cores on these chips - the 12900K gets all the best binned cores, for obvious reasons

Some of the 12700Ks could be 12900Ks with defective e-cores, although due to the size of the e-cores relative to the rest of the die that may not be all that common.

[badsykes]

There is a cashback campaign from Asus in my country.If you buy a ADL cpu + an ASUS board you get money back from Asus.The least amount of money you can receive is 55$.

[Nunz]

There is a cashback campaign from Asus in my country.If you buy a ADL cpu + an ASUS board you get money back from Asus.The least amount of money you can receive is 55$.

With the prices of boards this gen, they better be doing some cash-back

[badsykes]

With the prices of boards this gen, they better be doing some cash-back

For Asus z690 Extreme Glacial the cash-back is 300$

[Nunz]

Scores - will add as I continue going along here ..

5.1 P-Core / 3.7 E-Core / 3.6 Cache (testing vMIN for chip quality) - RAM set to XMP Gear1 for testing.

CB23: 24710 -

[acroig]

Scores - will add as I continue going along here ..

5.1 P-Core / 3.7 E-Core / 3.6 Cache (testing vMIN for chip quality) - RAM set to XMP Gear1 for testing.

CB23: 24710 -

You have a score for your tuned up 10900K?

Also, can we get some game benchies at 1080p?

[fO Che -USA-]

Scores - will add as I continue going along here ..

5.1 P-Core / 3.7 E-Core / 3.6 Cache (testing vMIN for chip quality) - RAM set to XMP Gear1 for testing.

CB23: 24710 -

Nice, I'm at 23100 stock. I can tell I'm not going to be at the top of this pile.

In Apex Legends The frames are honestly mostly the same as the 5800X the lows are lower but interestingly it feels easier hitting enemies, could be placebo. Though on human benchmark reaction time test it shaved some time not sure if that's possible but it's consistently faster.

[acroig]

Nice, I'm at 23100 stock. I can tell I'm not going to be at the top of this pile.

In Apex Legends The frames are honestly mostly the same as the 5800X the lows are lower but interestingly it feels easier hitting enemies, could be placebo. Though on human benchmark reaction time test it shaved some time not sure if that's possible but it's consistently faster.

Don't forget top update your system specs.

[Nunz]

You have a score for your tuned up 10900K?

Also, can we get some game benchies at 1080p?

I'll have some eventually. I'm working on the CPU OC right now. I actually was having issues due to the E-Cores at stock .. problem with these cheap boards is that you HAVE to do everything manually -- auto is not taking care of simple things that I usually wouldn't need to worry about. I'm really curious about 3DMark PR and Timespy scores as those were extensively tested by me previously, so we can see where it stacks up! Also, if PCIE3.0 -> PCIE4.0 had any effects

Nice, I'm at 23100 stock. I can tell I'm not going to be at the top of this pile.

In Apex Legends The frames are honestly mostly the same as the 5800X the lows are lower but interestingly it feels easier hitting enemies, could be placebo. Though on human benchmark reaction time test it shaved some time not sure if that's possible but it's consistently faster.

Frametimes are likely more consistent which is definitely not placebo. Ryzen has a lot of issues with frametime and framepacing -- aka, framerate will appear high, but you're getting microstutters that you may not even notice. I'm not saying that's exactly the case or the reason, but it's very possible.

I'm running a custom loop and the CB23 score isn't "technically" stock, so don't worry too much about comparing! This chip flies at stock, honestly. It's set up very efficiently out of the box, and draws a LOT less wattage while gaming vs my 10900K (while being faster) and Ryzen (while being faster).

[acroig]

I'll have some eventually. I'm working on the CPU OC right now. I actually was having issues due to the E-Cores at stock .. problem with these cheap boards is that you HAVE to do everything manually -- auto is not taking care of simple things that I usually wouldn't need to worry about. I'm really curious about 3DMark PR and Timespy scores as those were extensively tested by me previously, so we can see where it stacks up! Also, if PCIE3.0 -> PCIE4.0 had any effects

Awesome! Hope you have time prior to deployment.

[badsykes]

You have a score for your tuned up 10900K?

Also, can we get some game benchies at 1080p?

[badsykes]

I wonder how much the price will crash on 12x00 series once the ADL refresh next year will land.

[acroig]

I wonder how much the price will crash on 12x00 series once the ADL refresh next year will land.

As always it'll be a bargain. Like the $325 I paid for my 10900KF @ MC.

[Nunz]

I wonder how much the price will crash on 12x00 series once the ADL refresh next year will land.

I don't think it'll crash much. Outside of the 12900K, the 12x00 series is priced extremely competitively -- far better than AMD priced the 5000 series at release.

[demo]

I think you're onto a good thing nunz. 12700k with DDR4 looks great for the price/performance ratio. DDR4 results are great for ADL and the cost of entry is so much lower (board+mem).

As I already own a 4000mhz CL15 kit, it made an upgrade more palatable so I almost pulled the trigger on a Strix Z690-A and 12900k combo, but alas, it seems ADL doesn't play nice with 4 sticks in gear 1 beyond ~3800mhz, much like my current RKL.

It's probably for the best, current system runs fine and I really don't need to be spending more money on PC parts this year... but I'll keep an eye out.

[Megaman]

It's probably for the best, current system runs fine and I really don't need to be spending more money on PC parts this year... but I'll keep an eye out.

Mhmmm.....mhmm.... let us know how that upgrade goes later next week

[KAC]

I think you're onto a good thing nunz. 12700k with DDR4 looks great for the price/performance ratio. DDR4 results are great for ADL and the cost of entry is so much lower (board+mem).

As I already own a 4000mhz CL15 kit, it made an upgrade more palatable so I almost pulled the trigger on a Strix Z690-A and 12900k combo, but alas, it seems ADL doesn't play nice with 4 sticks in gear 1 beyond ~3800mhz, much like my current RKL.

It's probably for the best, current system runs fine and I really don't need to be spending more money on PC parts this year... but I'll keep an eye out.

Good joke was good.

[badsykes]

I don't think it'll crash much. Outside of the 12900K, the 12x00 series is priced extremely competitively -- far better than AMD priced the 5000 series at release.

From what i've heard ADL is selling average at best.The enthuziasm is not big.This is why i am asking that question about the price.

[Nunz]

I think you're onto a good thing nunz. 12700k with DDR4 looks great for the price/performance ratio. DDR4 results are great for ADL and the cost of entry is so much lower (board+mem).

As I already own a 4000mhz CL15 kit, it made an upgrade more palatable so I almost pulled the trigger on a Strix Z690-A and 12900k combo, but alas, it seems ADL doesn't play nice with 4 sticks in gear 1 beyond ~3800mhz, much like my current RKL.

It's probably for the best, current system runs fine and I really don't need to be spending more money on PC parts this year... but I'll keep an eye out.

I need 1.45v SA to run 2x16 at 4000 CL15 Gear1.. lmao. Halo Infinite is a really good CPU/IMC test. I definitely like how much less this platform BSODs and acts crazy -- usually things just CTD .. no more random WHEA errors or Cache L0 errors popping up out of no where.

Lots of people are sorta struggling with 4x8 sticks but I think part of that is the mobos are just not good for DDR4 - if we had some higher end boards with better DIMM traces and more stable power, I think you'd see better results.

[badsykes]

I need 1.45v SA to run 2x16 at 4000 CL15 Gear1.. lmao. Halo Infinite is a really good CPU/IMC test. I definitely like how much less this platform BSODs and acts crazy -- usually things just CTD .. no more random WHEA errors or Cache L0 errors popping up out of no where.

Lots of people are sorta struggling with 4x8 sticks but I think part of that is the mobos are just not good for DDR4 - if we had some higher end boards with better DIMM traces and more stable power, I think you'd see better results.

Seriosly ... ? At 200$ the cheapest they can't even put good DDR4 traces ? If this is the case then the whole platform is a big scam for milking money ....

[Nunz]

Seriosly ... ? At 200$ the cheapest they can't even put good DDR4 traces ? If this is the case then the whole platform is a big scam for milking money ....

Huh?? There hasn't been a good memory OC board in a long time that was $200. The MSI Unify has been the only great OC board in the lower price segments ... It's been that way for a long time.

You're talking about high memory speeds with 4 sticks. That is a large strain on the IMC as well as the motherboard..

[badsykes]

Huh?? There hasn't been a good memory OC board in a long time that was $200. The MSI Unify has been the only great OC board in the lower price segments ... It's been that way for a long time.

You're talking about high memory speeds with 4 sticks. That is a large strain on the IMC as well as the motherboard..

If MSI can do it why not the others.

[Greasy]

From what i've heard ADL is selling average at best.The enthuziasm is not big.This is why i am asking that question about the price.

I considered picking one up, but there's no good DDR5 to be found. Probably just wait for the refresh next year.

[acroig]

I considered picking one up, but there's no good DDR5 to be found. Probably just wait for the refresh next year.

And what can be found in DDR5 is slower speed that better DDR4 can outmatch.

[badsykes]

I considered picking one up, but there's no good DDR5 to be found. Probably just wait for the refresh next year.

Maybe this video may help you


[yt]C0p7ICPy224[/yt]

[Nunz]

If MSI can do it why not the others.

I dunno, ask them I guess. If you're running a budget build you shouldn't be running 4x8gb anyway.. it's not just the mobo, it's the IMC that struggles as well

[Greasy]

And what can be found in DDR5 is slower speed that better DDR4 can outmatch.

Kinda why I'm waiting for the refresh. Hopefully by then we have faster kits available. My current rig isn't hold anything I do back, so I'm in no rush to upgrade.

[acroig]

Kinda why I'm waiting for the refresh. Hopefully by then we have faster kits available. My current rig isn't hold anything I do back, so I'm in no rush to upgrade.

Agreed.

[12Bass]

DDR4 4400 19-23-23-42 compared with DDR5 5200MHz 36-38-38-74: https://www.kitguru.net/components/c...00k-testing/2/

[Nunz]

new BIOS seems to have helped stabilize 2x16gb DR in gear1. much lower SA voltage ..

https://www.3dmark.com/3dm/68701986?

Timespy - 20885 .. running a low voltage lock @ 987mv @ 1995mhz core .. water is warm from playing halo infinite for two hours. 19062 cpu score and im not even overclocked on the cpu .. the RAM is screaming tho

https://www.3dmark.com/3dm/68702151?

firestrike - does anyone even care about this anymore? lol -- 39523 w/ 40230 physics score

https://www.3dmark.com/3dm/68702288?

port royal - 14521 - not running my max clocks just being lazy. as expected, no difference in scores as it's a gpu bench

[demo]

Are you able to push beyond 4000mhz?

And I was wondering if it's possible to drop DDR5 back to 4000mhz or so with tighter timings in gear1? DDR5 sticks kind of act like quad channel as a by-product of their design. Surely someone has tried this.

[acroig]

new BIOS seems to have helped stabilize 2x16gb DR in gear1. much lower SA voltage ..

https://www.3dmark.com/3dm/68701986?

Timespy - 20885 .. running a low voltage lock @ 987mv @ 1995mhz core .. water is warm from playing halo infinite for two hours. 19062 cpu score and im not even overclocked on the cpu .. the RAM is screaming tho

https://www.3dmark.com/3dm/68702151?

firestrike - does anyone even care about this anymore? lol -- 39523 w/ 40230 physics score

https://www.3dmark.com/3dm/68702288?

port royal - 14521 - not running my max clocks just being lazy. as expected, no difference in scores as it's a gpu bench

Yes we do! Thanks for the benchies.

[Nunz]

Are you able to push beyond 4000mhz?

And I was wondering if it's possible to drop DDR5 back to 4000mhz or so with tighter timings in gear1? DDR5 sticks kind of act like quad channel as a by-product of their design. Surely someone has tried this.

Some have gotten 4133 and 4266 Gear1 but my IMC is subpar I believe. The new 0003 BIOS has made a massive difference so I may try for it again.

Truthfully, it's not worth going above 4000 Gear1, especially if you can run 1T vs 2T. Latency is more important (as you know) than the theoretical bandwidth of 133-266Mhz bump.

People have tried to drop DDR5 to 4000 or 3800, unfortunately doesn't seem to work that way. Seems that DDR5 is not capable (at least on ADL IMC) of running Gear1. Something to do with the dual memory controllers and how they communicate, I dunno. DDR5 requires Gear2, from what I've read.

There's guys in the low 40ns on DDR5 already. Incredible stuff for the first round of DDR5 sticks with zero platform or node maturity.

[demo]

There's guys in the low 40ns on DDR5 already. Incredible stuff for the first round of DDR5 sticks with zero platform or node maturity.

Is that daily driver or uber voltage oc?

[Nunz]

Is that daily driver or uber voltage oc?

It was uber voltage on the old BIOS..

now I'm running 1.38v SA (might be able to lower it, don't know yet) 1.55v VDIMM and 1.55v VDDQ -- totally safe voltages. Shamino said VDDQ cannot be "overvolted' as the rail will refuse to put out more than 1.6v anyway.

this is easily daily driver. runs cool with 5.1 P core 3.7 E core all-core OC. I'm going to tune TVB now that I've got the mem OC solid

[acroig]

It was uber voltage on the old BIOS..

now I'm running 1.38v SA (might be able to lower it, don't know yet) 1.55v VDIMM and 1.55v VDDQ -- totally safe voltages. Shamino said VDDQ cannot be "overvolted' as the rail will refuse to put out more than 1.6v anyway.

this is easily daily driver. runs cool with 5.1 P core 3.7 E core all-core OC. I'm going to tune TVB now that I've got the mem OC solid

I can tell you're loving this.

[12Bass]

It was uber voltage on the old BIOS..

now I'm running 1.38v SA (might be able to lower it, don't know yet) 1.55v VDIMM and 1.55v VDDQ -- totally safe voltages. Shamino said VDDQ cannot be "overvolted' as the rail will refuse to put out more than 1.6v anyway.

this is easily daily driver. runs cool with 5.1 P core 3.7 E core all-core OC. I'm going to tune TVB now that I've got the mem OC solid

Interesting... my MO in overclocking is to push until the point of diminishing returns, or slightly past, and adjust for the lowest stable voltages all around. My goal is to maximize a balance between performance and efficiency/longevity. By cranking up the volts, I could push my 8700K to 5GHz, but that would mean a lot more noise and power consumption, which just isn't worth it for me. Actually found that my Hynix can run at CAS 14-16-16-32 with 1.4V, but don't feel it is worth it over CAS 15 at 3333MHz (the limit for this RAM), at 1.35V. I don't view the few percentage points of potential gain from pushing further to be worth it in terms of longevity, power, and cooling requirements. However, in contrast you seem to go for maximum "safe" voltage, and accept the risks associated with it.

[acroig]

By cranking up the volts, I could push my 8700K to 5GHz, but that would mean a lot more noise and power consumption, which just isn't worth it for me.

That's because Intel was binning the cores for the 8086K, 5GHz at default volts.

https://www.ubergizmo.com/2018/06/intel-first-5ghz-desktop-cpu-core-i7-8086k/