Intel 12x00 series Alder lake

[Megaman]

Although we already know this, just placing this here for educational purposes.



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[andino]

Yeh. I read that not all pins are being used with current LGA1700 though, so it might be a good idea to wait for z790 mobo to accompany Raptor Lake. z690 will still be supported though.

If that is true, then they saved me the cost of a new CPU block.

[Nunz]

If that is true, then they saved me the cost of a new CPU block.

Why do you say that?

[Exposed]

So I decided to upgrade my 8700 based system to a new 12700k system. I know the 13 series is around the corner but I have the itch to upgrade now.

I put these together on PC part picker:

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/YdXHkX

Around $800 is gonna be my range and I only need to upgrade the motherboard and CPU and whatever else required. Don't need a case PSU or even a SSD as I have 3 of them currently and they work just fine.

Motherboard appears to be more expensive than I remember a few years ago, but memory prices have dropped.

These look like an Okayish upgrade path?

[the_sextein]

Doesn't that board only support 2 NVME drives and you said you have 3? I would wait but I know you said you don't want to

It looks like it will serve up solid RAM performance and deal with the GPU's that are comming up. I would suspect that CPU performance might eclipse it enough to cause problems a couple years down the road but if you plan to upgrade again about 2 years from now then I think it would be fine. If you were to wait you would end up spending more on the everything but it would probably last you 2x as long. most likely 4 years instead of 2.

[Nunz]

I cannot say how poor of a time it is to purchase, especially buying DDR4. Find your patience and sanity, and wait. AM4 is about to drop, and at a minimum, it will drop prices on 12th gen.

I would NOT buy DDR4 at this stage of the game. The Prime is also a very mediocre board.. can't really say anything good about it besides *it works*

At a minimum, go DDR5 so you have expandability later on. The DDR4 memory controllers on anything below a 12900K/KS are extremely hit or miss.

Oh, and make sure when you get the D15, that you get an LGA1700 mount. If you don't get one with the shipment, you should be able to email Noctua for a free mount with proof of purchase.

[the_sextein]

high speed DDR 4 will keep up for a few years I think but DDR 4 will be outpaced pretty bad in two years and it will be a major bottleneck beyond 2 years. I have read that DDR 5 may drop in price once these new platforms launch and a large quantity of RAM is released into the market. The market is in the dumpster so we might see some decent prices soon.
EDIT:
I would not buy right now but if I did and wanted to go Intel and Asus I would buy the STRIX wifi E board for $465. It's 200 more but it would be worth it. Like Nunz said though, everything will be cheaper in in a month or two and much more powerful chips will be available in the same price range.

[Nunz]

DDR4 is already out of it's league.

The STRIX board is a joke for $465. For that price you could buy an MSI Unify DDR5 that absolutely obliterates it in build quality and features .. or even go a step further and grab an MSI ACE. Sticking to DDR4, you'd be better off with an MSI Edge WIFI.

ASUS is atrocious this generation. They don't deserve anyone's money.

[Megaman]

Except my money

[Nunz]

Except my money

We were early buyers and didn't know how bad it was. Looking back on it, I should have went MSI.

[Exposed]

I guess I will wait a bit longer. Thanks guys

I have one NVME drive and the other two are SATA SSD's. Only a year old and 2.5 tb among the 3, the nvme is just a straight 512gb windows boot drive and the other two hold my steam/gamepass/epic/origin games.

The Prime is really a bad board? I thought Gigabyte was the one to avoid.

I really don't want to spend more than $200 for a motherboard, because it's just a MB after all. Don't even need wifi tbh. But it should have the fastest chipset for the CPU and decent expandability.

I'm hoping with the release of the 13 series that 12 series will have a nice discount. Or if AMD comes out with something good that's not too expensive I can consider that also, but I really prefer Intel builds especially since the 12 series are quite good.

If there's really a big performance difference between a 13700k and a 12700k especially with DDR5 then I may just have to go that route, but I'm also a cheap bastard these days so not sure how the two will reconcile.

[Exposed]

Also what about this motherboard? Good replacement for the Asus Prime?

https://www.amazon.com/MSI-MAG-Z690-DDR4-Motherboard/dp/B09GLD72QH

Supports both DDR4/DDR5 so I can upgrade to DDR5 later on.


Also the Noctua D15 says it has the LGA 1700 mounting kit but reviews seem to be mixed on whether it has or not.

[Seyiji]

Also what about this motherboard? Good replacement for the Asus Prime?

https://www.amazon.com/MSI-MAG-Z690-DDR4-Motherboard/dp/B09GLD72QH

Supports both DDR4/DDR5 so I can upgrade to DDR5 later on.


Also the Noctua D15 says it has the LGA 1700 mounting kit but reviews seem to be mixed on whether it has or not.

Yeah no that listing is lying. Its either ddr4 or ddr5 not both. Seeing as how it says DDR4 its probably a DDR4 version.

[Megaman]

What princess said. DDR 4 Pins are different to DDR 5 so you’ll be locked in to DDR 4 if it’s ddr 4/5

[Nunz]

No such thing as a DDR4/5 board.

Also not really any boards at $200 or less. There's too many expensive features on the chipsets these days to have prices that low, plus inflation adjustments and high demand.

The D15 coming with LGA1700 will depend on what production date you end up getting. If it's a newer one, then it should have it. If it's older, then it won't. Afaik, it's as simple as an email to Noctua with proof of purchase and they'll ship you one for free.

Gigabyte is the one to avoid, yeah. ASUS is at least functional, but their pricing is terrible. MSI won this generation by a long shot, especially since ASUS halo OC board, the Apex, turned out to be broken from the factory and ASUS had to cancel production prematurely. It was so bad that they stopped doing RMAs and simply gave people full refunds.

[Exposed]

Ok thanks, I guess I will revisit this in a month or two when prices (hopefully) come down. I'll also spend a bit more on the next gen chips if they prove to be quite a bit faster than Alder Lake. DDR5 does look to be what I should get as well and forget about DDR4, which is fine if memory and board prices eventually come down a bit.

Back to the cave I go...

[acroig]

Ok thanks, I guess I will revisit this in a month or two when prices (hopefully) come down. I'll also spend a bit more on the next gen chips if they prove to be quite a bit faster than Alder Lake. DDR5 does look to be what I should get as well and forget about DDR4, which is fine if memory and board prices eventually come down a bit.

Back to the cave I go...

There's also the new AMD CPUs coming in September.

[KAC]

Buying a putter now with old tech is not the most intelligent thing to do…

[demo]

Honestly I might even skip this gen. Current CPU going just fine plus pcie4 support.

[Megaman]

Meteor lake is where it’s at!

[andino]

Meteor lake is where it’s at!

2024. Ugh....

[Megaman]

ASUS bios 1720 is out. Any improvements Nunz? I skipped the previous one coz who cares about just new Intel cpu support

[Nunz]

I'm still on BIOS 0807. I don't like any of the new BIOS releases.. I've tested them all extensively. Haven't tried 1720 or 1601. I found that many of them performed worse. I have this strange issue where all of the newer BIOS give me 90-100sec Y-Cruncher 2.5b times, while the older BIOS' give me ~70-75.

If you don't have any issues with what you're using, I'd leave it alone. Many of the newer BIOS have given people fits with memory compatibility in Gear1.

[Nunz]

My Z690 TUF died last night. Can't get into BIOS 90% of the time, just hangs w/ green "Ready" light. One of my SSDs is no longer being detected as well.. ****ing ASUS.

Hoping my SSD wasn't fried by the board. Seems like the CPU and RAM are OK. Occasionally I will get my OS SSD detected and can get into Windows, in which case the system runs (mostly) fine, but will crash eventually even at stock.

I've had terrible luck past two systems. My MSI Z490 ACE died too - confirmed it was the board when I rebuilt it for a buddy with exact same hardware just with the replacement board.. been running great ever since.

Can't catch a break lol

My Samsung 980Pro OS SSD is confirmed dead as well. You've gotta be kidding me. How is it so hard to make reliable products?????

[Megaman]

**** man that sucks balls.

I dread getting into that sort of situation. It’s the worst.

[acroig]

**** Nunz, that totally sucks.

Resetting all to default has no effect I take it?

[Nunz]

Nope. Ran to Microcenter, but didn't want to have to make two trips if the chip is damaged too. I had no way of knowing..

12900K, MSI Z690 MEG ACE, Team Group TFORCE 6200CL38 DDR5, and a Seagate Firecuda 530 1TB.

The Firecuda is going back. Two stripped screws on a brand new SSD.. just going to get another Samsung if I can't revive the one I have. New board and chip doesn't see it in the BIOS either, but I'm hoping maybe I can get it detected elsewhere and wipe the drive. The worst part of it is that my old PCIE3.0 Crucial drive is old as hell but still pumping.

Had to drain my entire loop, so spent hours doing all the maintenance. Just finally got first boot and good post. Currently downloading a Win11 ISO on my USB drive to install Windows.. then need to flash latest BIOS on the board.

If this 12900K is a good chip, I'll keep it. If not, will pop the 12700K back in and test it. If my 12700K works fine, I'll return the 12900K.

I'm skipping Raptor Lake and Zen4, if it wasn't obvious... lol. I've had some really shitty luck with PCs it seems.

Full disclosure, I had lightning strike very near the house. Despite a TripLite Line Conditioner and a TripLite Surge Protector dedicated just for the PC, I still received a *pop* sound through my Klipsch desktop speakers. Nothing tripped or seemed funky, I just turned the PC off and unplugged everything from the wall.

System was fine for a day or two and then it seems to have imploded.

[KAC]

That sucks balls.

On SSD, I am using Crucial and Corsair products and they seem reliable enough. I would also go for WD or Corsair over Samsung. Same or better speed with less heat. Samsung 980 Pro is just trouble.

I will wait until platforms stabilize before I indulge as well. The 5900x is pumping games fine and I don’t want to rebuild a system either. Will need a new AIO and other crap as well. Just not feeling the urge this time. Maybe it changes when the products are actually available. Seems like supply won’t be problem this time.

[acroig]

Full disclosure, I had lightning strike very near the house. Despite a TripLite Line Conditioner and a TripLite Surge Protector dedicated just for the PC, I still received a *pop* sound through my Klipsch desktop speakers. Nothing tripped or seemed funky, I just turned the PC off and unplugged everything from the wall.

System was fine for a day or two and then it seems to have imploded.

[Riptide]

Well we can't accuse Nunz of being a cheapskate lol

Nice parts man!

Sorry for your loss.

Will need a new AIO and other crap as well. Just not feeling the urge this time. Maybe it changes when the products are actually available.

Wut? I thought AM5 was supposed to be compatible with AM4 coolers? I was planning on moving my EK right over to AM5 no kit needed to make it work.

[Nunz]

I will say this.. the TUF and 12700K was one of the few times I went cheap.

Never again.

But I'm also thinking this will be one of the last times I touch the PC outside of loop maintenance for a very long time. I just have too many other things going on and big changes coming up

[KAC]

Well we can't accuse Nunz of being a cheapskate lol

Nice parts man!

Sorry for your loss.

Wut? I thought AM5 was supposed to be compatible with AM4 coolers? I was planning on moving my EK right over to AM5 no kit needed to make it work.

You never know. Technically the current AIOs were also compatible with the 12 series of Intel.

[acroig]

Well we can't accuse Nunz of being a cheapskate lol

Nice parts man!

$1,250 pre tax for CPU, Mobo, RAM.

[KAC]

Cheap out is relative. Value for money is where I play.

[acroig]

Cheap out is relative. Value for money is where I play.

Your system specs would suggest otherwise. No threat of harm intended.

[Nunz]

$1,250 pre tax for CPU, Mobo, RAM.

Got the ACE open-box for $480, CPU was $499 but with combo deals it was down to $450 I believe, and the RAM was $297 -- which was truly a steal at that price for Hynix chips.

[acroig]

Got the ACE open-box for $480, CPU was $499 but with combo deals it was down to $450 I believe, and the RAM was $297 -- which was truly a steal at that price for Hynix chips.

Oh wow, good savings there. Nobody beats MC for CPU/Mobo combos.

I really hope RAM prices come down next couple of months.

[Nunz]

I don't think $297 is too bad for memory. You could save even more - I got very close to the top-end bin of memory .. that's pretty great. You could easily grab 4800-5600 DDR5 for ~$200. I think the pricing is pretty solid right now.

Part of me believes that's due to new, faster RAM chips coming out in the near future. Apparently, there's a new Hynix chip that is acting much like DDR4 Samsung B-Die, where they scale extremely well with voltage.

[Nunz]

Ah, gotta love it. Returning this board and memory, along with the Seagate Firecuda. I already knew 4-DIMM boards struggled with DDR5, but I didn't know it was this bad. The heatspreaders on the TeamGroup memory seem awful too; hitting 48-50c on the memory at only 1.32v. The sticks feel very flimsy, as if they're mostly plastic and not aluminum/copper.

Can't stabilize XMP without bumping voltages up, and even then, I'm not sure it's stable. After installing Windows and getting everything set up, the memory corrupted my install in the matter of an hour LOL. Had to reformat AGAIN..

I have to break my loop down again to swap the board out. I have an MSI Unify-X on the way and Kingston Fury Renegade 6400 coming too. Don't know when the memory will be here, but the board will be here Wednesday. Likely won't have the system up until first week of September or so.

Going to test the 12900K for OC potential before I pull the board for it's return. If the 12900K is a bad bin (and my 12700K isn't damaged), it's going back to MC as well. That would mean I'd return every part I purchased yesterday.

I don't know. Horrible luck with PCs lately. I'm about to sell this entire system and buy a gaming laptop lol

[KAC]

I would stop using a loop if you will be changing parts often.
Also try to wait out if you can as new stuff is only 1 month away? New graphics parts are 2 months away.

Something to consider. Team group is bottom of the barrel products so not surprised you are facing this.