Intel 12x00 series Alder lake

[Nunz]

Interesting... my MO in overclocking is to push until the point of diminishing returns, or slightly past, and adjust for the lowest stable voltages all around. My goal is to maximize a balance between performance and efficiency/longevity. By cranking up the volts, I could push my 8700K to 5GHz, but that would mean a lot more noise and power consumption, which just isn't worth it for me. Actually found that my Hynix can run at CAS 14-16-16-32 with 1.4V, but don't feel it is worth it over CAS 15 at 3333MHz (the limit for this RAM), at 1.35V. I don't view the few percentage points of potential gain from pushing further to be worth it in terms of longevity, power, and cooling requirements. However, in contrast you seem to go for maximum "safe" voltage, and accept the risks associated with it.

Well, you have to look at things in perspective. Cranking up the voltage on the RAM, for example, is perfectly safe -- 1.55v is a 24/7 safe voltage and this is true since you see RAM offered with 1.55v on XMP. As long as you have good airflow in your case, you should be fine. Pumping 1.4v is literally nothing -- my sticks come stock at 1.4v. You're leaving performance on the table, imo, without really gaining anything in terms of longevity or power. RAM pulls nothing in terms of system usage. I thought that 1.55v killed my RAM, and everyone told me I was crazy, and turns out I was wrong. My motherboard went out -- last time I deviate from ASUS despite their crazy prices. Nothing I did overclocking wise damaged that motherboard.

I don't increase voltages unless there is a feasible gain -- with my 3080TI for example, I run it voltage locked at .987mv @ 2010, because the extra wattage being dumped into my loop is pointless and I actually get more stable performance with the voltage locked, since the card isn't bouncing around pegging the power-limiter every two seconds.

I do push the PC to a safe limit, but I also take extremely good care of my equipment and have a great cooling setup. I run a custom loop and when I eventually go to Sapphire Rapids, I'll be watercooling my RAM as well. Overall, I've never had anything die on me due to excessive voltage, and I've never done "suicide runs" or anything of that nature. Take care of your stuff, learn the limits (reading, researching, etc), and honestly there is very little risk involved.

On that note, started to OC the CPU now.

5.2 P-Core -- 4.1 E-Core -- 3.6 Cache

CB23 : 25395

[Nunz]

More modest voltage required for this. I will eventually work on TVB, maybe tomorrow, but I want to play some Halo tonight.

5.1 P-Core -- 4.1 E-Core -- 4.4 Cache @ 1.35v BIOS LLC5, 1.288v load

Timespy - 21086 / 19169 CPU Score now THIS is impressive stuff https://www.3dmark.com/3dm/68732261?

Timespy Extreme - 10473 https://www.3dmark.com/3dm/68732865?

CPU Profile - https://www.3dmark.com/3dm/68733255?

AIDA64 : Final

[KAC]

19 Gs on timespy is a very high CPU score. By comparison my 5900X does about 14G and some change.

Thinking about getting 12900K, Asus Strix A and some DDR4 3600 C14 kit. Can’t find 32 GB DDR4 4000.

[Greasy]

19 Gs on timespy is a very high CPU score. By comparison my 5900X does about 14G and some change.

Thinking about getting 12900K, Asus Strix A and some DDR4 3600 C14 kit. Can’t find 32 GB DDR4 4000.

Just save your money until next year.

[Nunz]

19 Gs on timespy is a very high CPU score. By comparison my 5900X does about 14G and some change.

Thinking about getting 12900K, Asus Strix A and some DDR4 3600 C14 kit. Can’t find 32 GB DDR4 4000.

3600c14 is very good B-Die.

That 19g is on a 12700k too, not even a 12900k.. imagine what I'd do with that

[Megaman]

19 Gs on timespy is a very high CPU score. By comparison my 5900X does about 14G and some change.

Thinking about getting 12900K, Asus Strix A and some DDR4 3600 C14 kit. Can’t find 32 GB DDR4 4000.

Let us know how she goes.

[KAC]

I will see I have just spent about 20K on planning a vacation in Switzerland. I may hold back until I am back and see what's up.

[Megaman]

Why vacate in neutrality?

I’m very tempted in grabbing a 12700k and board. Not sure if to still use DDR 4 or not or just wait for Meteor Lake.

Also, if there is a Black Friday deal on 3080/Ti I may pull the trigger.

[KAC]

Why vacate in neutrality?

I’m very tempted in grabbing a 12700k and board. Not sure if to still use DDR 4 or not or just wait for Meteor Lake.

Also, if there is a Black Friday deal on 3080/Ti I may pull the trigger.

Gay you never pulling the trigger coz your gun ain’t loaded.

[acroig]

Why vacate in neutrality?

I’m very tempted in grabbing a 12700k and board. Not sure if to still use DDR 4 or not or just wait for Meteor Lake.

Also, if there is a Black Friday deal on 3080/Ti I may pull the trigger.

I should ban you for your constant lies....

[acroig]

Gay you never pulling the trigger coz your gun ain’t loaded.

See! This gay gets it, Mega is too gay.

[KAC]

Do you gays think it is a bad time to get a new DDR4 kit? Will the new Ryzen 3D cache nonsense also benefit from it or is that a new platform?

[fO Che -USA-]

Do you gays think it is a bad time to get a new DDR4 kit? Will the new Ryzen 3D cache nonsense also benefit from it or is that a new platform?

The 3d cache ryzens are supposed to be AM4.

[demo]

Do you gays think it is a bad time to get a new DDR4 kit? Will the new Ryzen 3D cache nonsense also benefit from it or is that a new platform?

I have 2 killer kits of DDR4 and don't particularly want to buy another this late in the game. I'm going to hold off and upgrade properly all in one hit. DDR5, PCIE5, etc. While ADL is excellent, it would feel like a half step with either DDR4 and lower end board, or immature DDR5.

[KAC]

Ok thanks. I bought the C14 kit as I will most likely throw in the new processor and call it for next year.

[Nunz]

There's no benefit to a new kit if you stay on AMD. With Alderlake, there could be if you take the time to tune it, but that's not really your style .. so I would cancel the order.

Save up for Meteor Lake.

[KAC]

Well newegg just screwed me over. While I was looking at the forum they created a tracking number and are now not cancelling the order. Reasons why I always swear off shopping at the egg. Even their own system shows that item is in warehouse and hasn't been picked up.

[acroig]

Well newegg just screwed me over. While I was looking at the forum they created a tracking number and are now not cancelling the order. Reasons why I always swear off shopping at the egg. Even their own system shows that item is in warehouse and hasn't been picked up.

Well mind as well get an AL and mobo now!

[badsykes]

Core i9 12900K DDR4 3600 vs DDR5 5200 performance review

https://www.guru3d.com/articles-pages/core-i9-12900k-ddr4-versus-ddr5-performance-review,1.html?utm_source=phpList&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Review%3A+Core+i9+12900K+DDR4+3600+vs+DDR5+5200+performance&utm_content=HTML

[KAC]

The difference is far too great to ignore.

[acroig]

The difference is far too great to ignore.

3 FPS is far too great to ignore....

[Nagorak]

Interesting... my MO in overclocking is to push until the point of diminishing returns, or slightly past, and adjust for the lowest stable voltages all around. My goal is to maximize a balance between performance and efficiency/longevity. By cranking up the volts, I could push my 8700K to 5GHz, but that would mean a lot more noise and power consumption, which just isn't worth it for me. Actually found that my Hynix can run at CAS 14-16-16-32 with 1.4V, but don't feel it is worth it over CAS 15 at 3333MHz (the limit for this RAM), at 1.35V. I don't view the few percentage points of potential gain from pushing further to be worth it in terms of longevity, power, and cooling requirements. However, in contrast you seem to go for maximum "safe" voltage, and accept the risks associated with it.

Even if you want to be conservative with memory voltage, up to 1.45v should still be perfectly fine. I wouldn't even think twice about running at 1.4v. That's way safe voltage, and shouldn't impact longevity in any noticeable way.

[Megaman]

DDR 5 can sit on the shelves for now until Meteor Lake comes out.

[Nunz]

DDR 5 can sit on the shelves for now until Meteor Lake comes out.

There isn't any DDR5 on the shelves. It's selling like hotcakes.

[Megaman]

There isn't any DDR5 on the shelves. It's selling like hotcakes.

I like to speak for myself

[12Bass]

Even if you want to be conservative with memory voltage, up to 1.45v should still be perfectly fine. I wouldn't even think twice about running at 1.4v. That's way safe voltage, and shouldn't impact longevity in any noticeable way.

For some reason, my motherboard has very course voltage adjustment. Default is 1.36V and the next step up is 1.43V. At 1.43V my Hynix MFR will run at DDR-3333 14-16-16-32 CR1, and the same settings with CAS 15 at 1.36V. I initially bought this Trident.Z 32GB kit for a 7700K several years ago, and for Hynix it scores pretty well in AIDA64 with optimized timings (over 50K Read/Write, almost 48K copy, at 45ns). I ran a few memory benchmarks and the difference with CAS 14 was in the noise/margin of error, so I don't see much advantage bumping up the voltage unless going for a high score. Even if the added risk is slight, I'm not comfortable leaving it at CAS 14 and 1.43V 24/7, given that the performance gain seems negligible.

FWIW, my earlier post was meant as a comment about different approaches to overclocking, how some are more interested in pushing voltage limits in pursuit of performance than others, and how I tend toward optimizing performance at lower voltages/noise/power consumption. My old Athon 64 X2 3800+ ran with a 2.5GHz overclock (stock is 2GHz) for a decade or so, at lower than default Vcore. Didn't see the point in bumping up Vcore for another 100MHz. The Athlon X2 still runs perfectly...

[Arrowhead]

There isn't any DDR5 on the shelves. It's selling like hotcakes.

It's not so much that they are selling well, but that the manufacturers have only managed to make a pitiful amount. Due to the chip shortage of course as these new ddr5s need their own PMIC to produce. Also, since the scalper bots have caught wind of this situation, when there is stock, they are gone instantly. But kits are available on ebay now, for a couple grand or more...

I somehow missed my chance to order some g.skill kits this morning from Newegg. Newegg said they would be in stock on the 26th and I had it on auto-notify. I've been working all night and up all morning just checking the site every so often. Checked at 7am. Gone, sold out... Now that kit isn't even listed.

I'll be lucky if I get this build up and running by the summer. lol

[Nunz]

Buy a DDR4 board and carry over your old sticks for now. It's not like you're losing out on any performance unless you can snag Hynix DDR5 chips and spend the time to OC them into the low 6000 with high 20s tCL

[acroig]

Buy a DDR4 board and carry over your old sticks for now. It's not like you're losing out on any performance unless you can snag Hynix DDR5 chips and spend the time to OC them into the low 6000 with high 20s tCL

This.

[Arrowhead]

I don't want ddr4 though.
I got the Maxipad Z690 Hero already a couple weeks ago and I plan to use it for the next 3+ years(maybe).
Eh, it's no rush. I'll wait this one out.

[demo]

I don't want ddr4 though.
I got the Maxipad Z690 Hero already a couple weeks ago and I plan to use it for the next 3+ years(maybe).
Eh, it's no rush. I'll wait this one out.

I saw gskill z5 just released in 6600 & 6800 flavours at cl36 and I think cl38 respectively. That's getting where it needs to be for positive results.

[12Bass]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5pXSBus8pQ

[yt]I5pXSBus8pQ[/yt]

[Nagorak]

For some reason, my motherboard has very course voltage adjustment. Default is 1.36V and the next step up is 1.43V. At 1.43V my Hynix MFR will run at DDR-3333 14-16-16-32 CR1, and the same settings with CAS 15 at 1.36V. I initially bought this Trident.Z 32GB kit for a 7700K several years ago, and for Hynix it scores pretty well in AIDA64 with optimized timings (over 50K Read/Write, almost 48K copy, at 45ns). I ran a few memory benchmarks and the difference with CAS 14 was in the noise/margin of error, so I don't see much advantage bumping up the voltage unless going for a high score. Even if the added risk is slight, I'm not comfortable leaving it at CAS 14 and 1.43V 24/7, given that the performance gain seems negligible.

It will be a very small difference in performance. To get more performance you really need to push the frequency higher and start tweaking the subtimings, but that's a deep rabbit hole to go down. Probably not worth it for most.

FWIW, my earlier post was meant as a comment about different approaches to overclocking, how some are more interested in pushing voltage limits in pursuit of performance than others, and how I tend toward optimizing performance at lower voltages/noise/power consumption. My old Athon 64 X2 3800+ ran with a 2.5GHz overclock (stock is 2GHz) for a decade or so, at lower than default Vcore. Didn't see the point in bumping up Vcore for another 100MHz. The Athlon X2 still runs perfectly...

It's a valid observation. For what it's worth, I'm more on your page. I will not push to extreme voltages for a small gain. I just try to go to the point of diminishing returns and stop there, or even step it back a notch.

[badsykes]

I don't want ddr4 though.
I got the Maxipad Z690 Hero already a couple weeks ago and I plan to use it for the next 3+ years(maybe).
Eh, it's no rush. I'll wait this one out.

The problem with early ddr5 boards is they support only ddr5 up to ddr5 6400 mhz...I would expect a mature ddr5 to have 10000 mhz ? So you still need to change mainboard for a later mature ddr5...What's the point ? As you saw from benchies ddr5 6000 is not such a big deal in games.Again what's the point ?

Unless you are in productivity i wouldn't go with DDR5 at this point unless you want to help the ddr5 economy to thrive.

[12Bass]

It will be a very small difference in performance. To get more performance you really need to push the frequency higher and start tweaking the subtimings, but that's a deep rabbit hole to go down. Probably not worth it for most.

It's a valid observation. For what it's worth, I'm more on your page. I will not push to extreme voltages for a small gain. I just try to go to the point of diminishing returns and stop there, or even step it back a notch.

Timings and sub-timings have been tweaked as much as I can. With this particular set, if the frequency is pushed higher than 3333MHz, the write speed inexplicably drops by almost half; so 3333MHz seems to be the optimal performance limit for this 32GB Hynix DDR4 3200 kit. Loosening the timings and adding voltage (DRAM, VCCSA, VCCIO) doesn't seem to help either... it will work past 3400MHz, but the write speed crashes at the higher speed negating any gains. Any ideas why the write speed drops off like a switch at higher frequencies? Almost seems like writes go to half the normal data rate due to a signalling error or something.

But then 3333MHz at 15-16-16-32 at default voltage isn't too bad for an early production 3200MHz 16-18-18-38 kit, IMO. Basically, I tried to eek out as much performance as I could without significantly bumping up the voltage, and it does seem to perform better than 96% of similar kits according to UserBenchmark. I also tried bumping up the cache ratio, but getting it to equal the CPU ratio took too much extra Vcore to make it worthwhile.

[Nunz]

The problem with early ddr5 boards is they support only ddr5 up to ddr5 6400 mhz...I would expect a mature ddr5 to have 10000 mhz ? So you still need to change mainboard for a later mature ddr5...What's the point ? As you saw from benchies ddr5 6000 is not such a big deal in games.Again what's the point ?

Unless you are in productivity i wouldn't go with DDR5 at this point unless you want to help the ddr5 economy to thrive.

Not accurate. Just because the board on the spec sheet only says 6400, doesn't mean that's the max it can run. People have Hynix chips at 6600, and I've seen one guy with 7000 (though at suicide voltages).

I do agree that DDR4 is doing well in games but you're comparing extremely mature DDR4 to baby DDR5, and it's impressive that the DDR5 can already surpass the DDR4 when properly tweaked - that was not the case with DDR3 to DDR4.

[badsykes]

Not accurate. Just because the board on the spec sheet only says 6400, doesn't mean that's the max it can run. People have Hynix chips at 6600, and I've seen one guy with 7000 (though at suicide voltages).

I do agree that DDR4 is doing well in games but you're comparing extremely mature DDR4 to baby DDR5, and it's impressive that the DDR5 can already surpass the DDR4 when properly tweaked - that was not the case with DDR3 to DDR4.

I still feel the ddr5 owners may need to change the board at some point.
B350/x370 generation was a mess with memory.With B550 is much easier.

[Nunz]

Eh. Those platforms struggled because the IMC on Ryzen is literal dogshit, especially prior to 5000 series.

From what I've seen, there's no real issue with the IMC on DDR5 (not the story with DDR4 though) .. it seems to be the limit of the memory sticks themselves, and it makes sense since so much has moved over to the memory.

[badsykes]

talks about DDR5 memory stability also with two kits.

AND 1440p tests .... :P


[yt]B5-AZReX1kQ[/yt]

[KAC]

After spending a lot of time reading reviews and comparing stated performance vs my performance from a 5900X I have decided to not move to Alder Lake. It’s just not worth the money and also is a power hungry mofo.