Quotes for hard drive storage space are starting to get out of hand

[Razeus]

So I'm in the market for a 1 tera hard drive. After some look see, I see that it's really only ~930 gigs of real estate to use. Now, I understand why there is a difference between what's on the box and what I actually get, but seriously, we need a new way of determining space. I mean that's 70 gigs chopped off right there! That's indeed alot of space I could be using
What's next 2 tera's only affording me 1.75 tera's (missing 250 gigs!)???



/rant over.

[pixie69]

Just how big, exactly, is your porn collection?

[Tizen]

Theres a 7% less actual space then is says on the box. Next time keep that number in mind

The formula is 1-(1000^3) / (1024^3)

[XSBagage]

You're not losing anything.
You got 1,000,000,000,000 bytes did you not?

[Razeus]

Just how big, exactly, is your porn collection?

not as big as magicknights.

[caveman-jim]

Look at the General Hardware important info sticky, under 'Hard Drives'


EDIT - I thought you were good with numbers and stuff. and junk.

[Idle Wild]

I agree with the orig poster, does this problem apply to Flash and SSD's?

[Razeus]

Look at the General Hardware important info sticky, under 'Hard Drives'


EDIT - I thought you were good with numbers and stuff. and junk.

i am to an extent, but that doesn't mean i'm happy with the way things are being advertised as we move up into higher capacities.

[Nebuchadnezzar]

I agree with the orig poster, does this problem apply to Flash and SSD's?

No.

[XSBagage]

i am to an extent, but that doesn't mean i'm happy with the way things are being advertised as we move up into higher capacities.

You misunderstand the problem. The problem is all the stupid programs that keep clinging on to kilo-, mega-, giga-, tera-, etc byte as powers of 2. While in science these prefixes denote a power of 10.
A gigawatt is a gigawatt just like a gigabyte is a gigabyte. You are getting what is advertised, that is 10^12 bytes.

[phial]

You misunderstand the problem. The problem is all the stupid programs that keep clinging on to kilo-, mega-, giga-, tera-, etc byte as powers of 2.

the prefixes arent different, its just a matter of bits vs bytes.

[Tizen]

You misunderstand the problem. The problem is all the stupid programs that keep clinging on to kilo-, mega-, giga-, tera-, etc byte as powers of 2. While in science these prefixes denote a power of 10.
A gigawatt is a gigawatt just like a gigabyte is a gigabyte. You are getting what is advertised, that is 10^12 bytes.

Lmao, you have no idea why its to the power of 2 huh? It's more of a hardware issue

[Djinn]

I vaguely recall reading that all hard drive manufactures are required to indicate the actual formatted capacity on the packaging.

[Firestorm_ATI]

You misunderstand the problem. The problem is all the stupid programs that keep clinging on to kilo-, mega-, giga-, tera-, etc byte as powers of 2. While in science these prefixes denote a power of 10.

Yeah, these stupid programs! Powers of 2?? I mean, you'd think that computers operated in binary or something.

[Ryoko]

except for the fact that kilo means thousand, mega means million, giga means billion, and tera means trillion. computers aren't exempt. if i'm in the market for a 1TB hard drive, should i expect anything other than 1 trillion bytes?

[Tizen]

except for the fact that kilo means thousand, mega means million, giga means billion, and tera means trillion. computers aren't exempt. if i'm in the market for a 1TB hard drive, should i expect anything other than 1 trillion bytes?

kilo = 1000 in a base 10 system

[XSBagage]

Lmao, you have no idea why its to the power of 2 huh?

Enlighten me

It's more of a hardware issue

Depends on what issue you're talking about exactly.
I'm on about consumers getting confused and thinking they somehow lost disk space.

[XSBagage]

the prefixes arent different, its just a matter of bits vs bytes.

Care to elaborate?

[Ryoko]

kilo = 1000 in a base 10 system

binary = bits

base 10 = bytes.

if bytes were base 2, then kilo would be 8

[Tizen]

binary = bits

base 10 = bytes.

if bytes were base 2, then kilo would be 8

What the hell?

1 byte = 8 bits

Edit:
Must say, I like this thread

[XSBagage]

Yeah, these stupid programs! Powers of 2?? I mean, you'd think that computers operated in binary or something.

Are you a computer? I'm a lot more comfortable with powers of 10 compared to powers of 2.
I got a terabyte drive, I got 1,000,000,000,000 bytes, easy.
I got a terabyte drive, I got 1024*1024*1024*1024 bytes errrr ah yes 1099511627776 bytes. Now there's an easy number.

There is no added value in using powers of 2 to represent file size or disk sizes, so why use it?

[Ryoko]

Are you a computer? I'm a lot more comfortable with powers of 10 compared to powers of 2.
I got a terabyte drive, I got 1,000,000,000,000 bytes, easy.
I got a terabyte drive, I got 1024*1024*1024*1024 bytes errrr ah yes 1099511627776 bytes. Now there's an easy number.

There is no added value in using powers of 2 to represent file size or disk sizes, so why use it?

because microsoft uses it

we all know how standard microsoft is

[seeker010]

Are you a computer? I'm a lot more comfortable with powers of 10 compared to powers of 2.
I got a terabyte drive, I got 1,000,000,000,000 bytes, easy.
I got a terabyte drive, I got 1024*1024*1024*1024 bytes errrr ah yes 1099511627776 bytes. Now there's an easy number.

There is no added value in using powers of 2 to represent file size or disk sizes, so why use it?

NIST and IEEE 1541: powers of two = first 2 letters closest SI designation + bi.
kilo, Mega, Giga, Tera = 10^3, 10^6, 10^9, and 10^12
Kibi, Mebi, Gibi, Tebi= 2^10, 2^20, 2^30, and 2^40 respectively

1 terabtye=1x10^12 bytes
1 tebibyte=1x2^40 bytes

kilo, Mega, Giga, Tera, etc are SI prefices that unambiguously refer to powers of 10. Any other assumed definition are completely nonstandard, and used only in colloquial speech.

get it?

[MaxSt]

Theres a 7% less actual space then is says on the box. Next time keep that number in mind

The formula is 1-(1000^3) / (1024^3)

right, but power of 3 is for giga. for tera you should use power of 4. that would be 10%.

[Tizen]

Enlighten me

Depends on what issue you're talking about exactly.
I'm on about consumers getting confused and thinking they somehow lost disk space.

Meh, someone else has done the enlightening...

Consumers confused? So what? I don't see a lot of complaning about it tbh

[XSBagage]

You misunderstand the problem. The problem is all the stupid programs that keep clinging on to kilo-, mega-, giga-, tera-, etc byte as powers of 2. While in science these prefixes denote a power of 10.
A gigawatt is a gigawatt just like a gigabyte is a gigabyte. You are getting what is advertised, that is 10^12 bytes.

NIST and IEEE 1541: powers of two = first 2 letters closest SI designation + bi.
kilo, Mega, Giga, Tera = 10^3, 10^6, 10^9, and 10^12
Kibi, Mebi, Gibi, Tebi= 2^10, 2^20, 2^30, and 2^40 respectively

1 terabtye=1x10^12 bytes
1 tebibyte=1x2^40 bytes

kilo, Mega, Giga, Tera, etc are SI prefices that unambiguously refer to powers of 10. Any other assumed definition are completely nonstandard, and used only in colloquial speech.

get it?

Obviously I do not.

I do not bring up the kibi, mebi etc stuff because that only confuses people more. It isn't used by microsoft so try telling people it's that way when their computer tells them otherwise. First you have to establish that the computer is wrong, before you bring up the kibis and mebis
We already have Ryoko on board, he brought up M$.

[XSBagage]

Consumers confused? So what? I don't see a lot of complaning about it tbh

Did you read the OP?

[Tizen]

right, but power of 3 is for giga. for tera you should use power of 4. that would be 10%.

Ah, indeed it is. I guess Razeus is lucky that the drive manufacturers didn't take that into consideration. He would have a 900GB drive right now if they did

Did you read the OP?

It's a drop in the ocean

[caveman-jim]

some of you guys didn't notice it, but seeker ended the thread a little while ago.

[pixie69]

Look at the General Hardware important info sticky, under 'Hard Drives'


EDIT - I thought you were good with numbers and stuff. and junk.

He's a finance guy, stick a dollar sign in front of the numbers and he'd be fine.

[moshpit]

Since when did an 8 bit Byte become base 10? Bytes are just 8 bits, that's it. A "Gigabyte" would therefore be 1,000,000,000 8bit sections. Plus, no hard drive in existance uses "bits" as a measurement, they all use bytes.

The hard drive industry has already been sued over this, massive class action style. Somehow, in all that court action, they managed to wiggle out of having to change how they advertise capacity sizes. They paid up a small chunck of change and went on doing exactly what they got sued for in the first place.

[caveman-jim]

No, they added a disclaimer in the small print on the price of paper you throw away 'advertised capacity may not be accurately reflected in formatted size' or some such.

[Ryoko]

that's funny... i see a full TB here. actually a bit more...



just because MS thinks they can redefine words doesn't mean they're right.

[seeker010]

Obviously I do not.

I do not bring up the kibi, mebi etc stuff because that only confuses people more. It isn't used by microsoft so try telling people it's that way when their computer tells them otherwise. First you have to establish that the computer is wrong, before you bring up the kibis and mebis
We already have Ryoko on board, he brought up M$.

I didn't mean to direct that response to you, but I hit quote instead of reply to thread. so sue me. actually, please don't, I'm quite short on cash right now. gimme about 2 weeks.

[Nebuchadnezzar]

When in the computer and in the digital world when you speak of SI designiation associated with bytes/bits then the general rule is to use the base 2 system, the kibi/gibi/tebi nomenclature crap has been around for extremly long and almost nobody ever uses it because it simply sounds retarded. Harddrive manufacturers are the only ones who don't follow this "habit".

that's funny... i see a full TB here. actually a bit more...
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h1.../diskspace.jpg
just because MS thinks they can redefine words doesn't mean they're right.

Oh quit being a smartass. It's been like that since decades and is way more widespread than the officialized "standard".

There is no added value in using powers of 2 to represent file size or disk sizes, so why use it?

To a normal user it doesn't make sense, but to a programmer / engineer there is no such thing as base 10 in computers.

[Razeus]

that's funny... i see a full TB here. actually a bit more...



just because MS thinks they can redefine words doesn't mean they're right.

that's a lot of anime. surprised you haven't filled it up already. how's the 1 tera working out for you?

[DaJMasta]

that's funny... i see a full TB here. actually a bit more...



just because MS thinks they can redefine words doesn't mean they're right.

731GB of anime?

Not so much an issue of MS redefining words, computers don't use the standard SI prefixes, so MS's definition of Gigabyte is actually correct, resulting in 931 proper GB on what, if sold under the same naming system, would be a 1024GB drive. It's the storage industry which decided to redefine words to make their drives seem bigger, and for years, it's just the way it has been.


The problem with complaining about it.... is that this fact is fairly well known and that you're technically not getting less than a terabyte..... you're just getting a different measure of terabyte than you expected.

[magicknight0233]

not as big as magicknights.

Hey!
You sir, have insulted my honor! I challenge you to a duel! <glove slap>
No one ever believes me when I say there is absolutely no porn on my computer because I've got less hard drive space on my computer (SCSI=speed, not quantity) than most people have in their MP3 players.

[Razeus]

Hey!
You sir, have insulted my honor! I challenge you to a duel! <glove slap>
No one ever believes me when I say there is absolutely no porn on my computer because I've got less hard drive space on my computer (SCSI=speed, not quantity) than most people have in their MP3 players.

where the hell do you store all your wonderful pics?

[seeker010]

I see therein lies the confusion that everyone has. SI prefixes are UNAMBIGUOUSLY defined to be powers of 10. Its use in computer circles for powers of 2 is more of a de facto convention than a ratified standard; binary prefixes on the other hand are a ratified standard. You can use SI prefixes for powers of 2 (not recommended), but only if clearly defined as such; JEDEC advises its members to follow the de facto convention because of marketing reasons, so all JEDEC members (memory manufacturers for the most part), use SI prefixes for powers of 2. But for any other purpose, it means powers of 10 unless specified.