Resident evil. PS2 vs GC

[Monk]

Hi guys, I have reecently been playing Resedent evil code veronica on the PS2, I kinda like this game (dosent even hold a candle to SIlent hill2 though) But i was just wondering a few things about the Game cube Resident evil game that has just come out

Firstly to anyone who HAS played both the PS2 game and the Came cube. Can you give me some info on witch one you think is better and why.

Second, I hear that the game cube RE has pre rendered backgrounds, ? is this true,? if so then thats a big let down as the rully real time rendering on the PS2 was a welcome change from the old Pre rendered crap.

Thirdly. WHere dose the Came cube version fit in with the resident evil series storyline? is it a new installment or Is it a remake of a previous RE game just with better graphics.?

Thanx for yout time guys. Any responces, opinions welcome. Please dont turn this into another console vs console war though. Im just interested in the differences between the 2 games.

[rcf84]

RE for GC lighting is extremely more complex then RE:CV for PS2.

[Monk]

But dose it have Pre rendered backdropps? (like the old PSX versions)

OR is it all realtime backdrops. (like the ps2 version)


I really wanna find this out because It may mean the difference between me buying tha game, or maby looking for somthing else

[DeathKnight]

Pre-rendered.

[FLiPmO]

Pre rendered....but like, you really don't notice it....only if you have good eyes like DK. He can even see that it is 16 bit in stead of (for real) 24 bit........

[DeathKnight]

Yeah, I do notice if it's pre-rendered.

16-bit color if they are utilizing FSAA. 24-bit otherwise. Either way you still have banding and dithering errors.

[_leech_]

Originally posted by FLiPmO
Pre rendered....but like, you really don't notice it....only if you have good eyes like DK. He can even see that it is 16 bit in stead of (for real) 24 bit........

Well you will notice it (meaning, that they're pre-rendered and not the colour thing) in a way because the camera stays static.

[Monk]

OK Pre rendered. that Isnt ENTIRELY a bad thing. but its very far from a good thing

I loved the camera moovement in SIlent hill and RE on ps2. I feel like it made the game soo much better.

Oh well, I guess Ill just have to rent out the Game cube version to see for myself. I still may get it.

[Christberg]

There's no aliasing, banding, or dithering problems with RE whatsoever. In fact, it's the best looking console game out right now. Even better looking than Halo, prerendered or not.

RE is a really, really polished game whereas Code Veronica was more of an experiment in the direction of the series. RE has better voice acting, cinemas, and a perfectly polished storyline.

RE is in fact a remake, but it's still well worth owning. Graphically there's just no way it could have been done on the PS2.

I own both and personally I think the GC RE is a bit better overall.

[DeathKnight]

There's no aliasing, banding, or dithering problems with RE whatsoever.

I beg to differ. You musn't have a very good eye or you have the brightness/gamma down in the game to hide these problems. There is a bit of aliasing on the edge of characters in scenes, there is definately banding with the lighting in a lot of areas, and yes, there are dithering errors with graniness throughout the game.

In fact, it's the best looking console game out right now. Even better looking than Halo, prerendered or not.

Certainly not, but it looks very good nonetheless. It's a shame that a pre-rendered game has to be a "contender" for best-looking game across all platforms. Halo? Halo isn't even the best-looking Xbox game.

[Christberg]

OK, well, that's your choice then. what IS the best looking Xbox game out RIGHT NOW? I'll go look at it.

Considering that it's a TV (add emphasis here), there's no problem with aliasing. If they would have added AA, it would have made the backgrounds blurrier simply because NO next gen console has edge AA and those backgrounds take up THE WHOLE screen. So when you look at it that way, I think it's good it's not used.

Modern AA methods look really good on some things, especially racing games and the like, but then on things with really detailed textures I think it looks really crappy.

Quake3 is another example of where I think AA doesn't look very good, whereas on UT it does, simply because of the difference in texture resolution.

NFS looks WAY better with AA turned on.

I'd like to see that article where you get the fact that the GC can't do AA with 32 bit color.

[DeathKnight]

I'd have to look through a handful of games... I'll just toss out a couple: Panzer Dragoon, Wreckless, etc.

Well, first off, Flipper doesn't even support 32-bit color, only 24-bit color and z-buffer. You can even go to Ninty's Cube specs to see this. Secondly, devs would have a hard time implementing AA on the Cube with anything higher than 16-bit color due to memory bandwidth contraints. You can go here and probably find something on it.

[Joshua17]

Re for Gc looks amazing the prerendered backgrounds look very good this time around

[BoBVila]

Yeah, the "specs" also say the GC can't hit 12million PPS, and a launch game put that to rest as it pulls 15million PPS in lots of places. As you can see, Nintendo doesn't care about the specs as much as MS does (who uses synthetic numbers unachievable in an actual GAME, but then Nintendo brings the games, MS doesn't). Secondly, there are a lot of things wrong in that thread, but anyway...

A Voodoo 4 can do anti-aliasing at 640x just fine, and it has much less bandwidth than the Cube in most cases. So this 16bit FSAA talk = bullcrap.

[DeathKnight]

Give it a rest Bobby. Sure, theoretical specs put the Xbox on top, but the funny thing is, the realworld situation does as well. Go crawl back into your cave.

You know what else is funny? 3DFX's cards only supported 16-bit color.

[BoBVila]

Um..Voodoo 4 and 5 supported 32 bit color, and guess which card I was referring to? OMG! ONE OF THOSE?!??!
That proves your idiocy right there, so any further discussion on my part is unecessary as DK knows everything (even though he didn't know this--he just refers to "other people" as his information). Good job!

[DeathKnight]

Sorry, didn't see the "4" while skimming through your monotonous post.

3DFX had a proprietary way of implementing FSAA that didn't eat up bandwidth like most other forms of FSAA. Lucky for Nvidia they'll probably implement it with the NV30. On the other hand, both Xbox and GameCube's FSAA implementations eat up bandwidth.. Xbox just has more of it to go around.

If the Cube has no problem with FSAA and color bit-depth then why don't many games implement it? Why don't the Tony Hawk games implement it when the Xbox versions do? Why do many developers scale things back to accomodate it? Why? Tell me Bobby.

Care to correct what's wrong in that thread? Like BenSkywalker's posts (a person with a backround in 3D graphics) or ERP's comments (an actual game developer). You whine and cry that everyone else besides you, your Ninty henchmen, and anyone else supporting the Cube, are wrong because they say things you don't want to hear.

Reality bites Bobby.

[BoBVila]

>>>If the Cube has no problem with FSAA and color bit-depth then why don't many games implement it?

Why don't they? That's not my problem. Rogue Leader proved it can do it just fine. I can't make the decisions for the developers.

Yes, I do care to correct what is wrong in that thread. But if you're going to limit it to those two people, fine (I'll show you where they make stupid comments AND where they say thing you won't agree with).

Ben: "Wasn't it you who was explaining the difficulty in trying to use FSAA or 32bit color on the Cube not that long ago?"

Well, there is no 32bit color, so whoever is telling him this is pretty stupid.

Ben responding to 'AFAICS the XBox does have an advantage, I just don't think its very big when GameCube's efficiency is taken into account.':" I don't think the edge in bandwith is necessarily huge"

Well, so which is it? HUGE OR NOT HUGE? You say HUGE, he says NOT HUGE. HUGE VS NOT HUGE! I don't have to go any further because quite frankly, no one knows who the hell is right or wrong. I'll stick by my "Rogue Leader does it flawlessly and it's a first-generation game, so I see no reason for it to be otherwise." You can stick by your "specs"--numbers that don't mean a damned thing to uneducated people (read: you). You've already proven you have a reading comprehension problem, why not opt for full-fledged learning disability?

[BoBVila]

OH AND LOL!

YOU SAW FSAA BUT NOT 4 IN THE VOODOO POST??!??! HOW??!?! THE OLDER VOODOO CARDS DIDN'T HAVE FSAA! So you thought a V3 had FSAA? And/Or a V4 didn't have 32-bit color! It has to be at least one, because you only halfway corrected yourself! LOL!

So let me ask you: DID YOU EVEN READ IT IN THE FIRST PLACE??!??! I vote for the "DK hasn't a clue what he is talking about" because any moron knows these things. You tried to save face! AND IT BIT YOU ON THE ASS! Please leave or get some education.

[DeathKnight]

Why don't they? That's not my problem. Rogue Leader proved it can do it just fine. I can't make the decisions for the developers.

Why don't they? Because they can't. IIRC, RL doesn't use any form of FSAA, but rather makes good use of the flicker filter which does a good job of reducing jaggies. But then again, I hear countless stories of people who've played RL and complained about the jaggies that were quite apparent.

Ben: "Wasn't it you who was explaining the difficulty in trying to use FSAA or 32bit color on the Cube not that long ago?"

Well, there is no 32bit color, so whoever is telling him this is pretty stupid.

No one's telling him that. He's asking a simple question to someone else asking about the inability to implement 32-bit color or FSAA on the Cube. You conveniently skipped over the other person's response:

Rasterizer has no 32bit color support at all (aside for textures I think). Z neither, now that you mention it.
As for FSAA, I guess it's usefull for cutscenes in "cinema" view I'd like to know a little more about how controllable downsampling parameters are though, it could be of some help to make field render actually usefull.

Now you're attacking Ben's use of adverbs? Nothing can be in the middle, part of something, or mostly something else? Why don't you re-write the English language while you're at it.

Reading comprehension problem? Reading comprehension problem? Aren't I the one who's constantly laying everyone else's posts out on a silver platter for you because you couldn't comprehend them. You hypocrite. What's your problem?

Care to correct actual errors in that thread besides your miscomprehensions?

[BoBVila]

COUNTLESS REPORTS? From where? Please show me! LOL!

And show me the mythical Voodoo 3 with FSAA while you're at it! Keeping digging the hole for yourself. It's funny! LOL

I'd also like to hear why you and Ben seem to disagree on bandwidth constraints. Is he wrong?

[BoBVila]

Never mind...

IGNcube: So what graphics features are you using, and which aren't you using deliberately?

Julian: We're doing full-scene anti-aliasing, bump-maps, specularity, and of course all the lighting is real-time. We're doing point lights, per-pixel lighting on some of the bumped stuff, alpha channels all over the place. Just yesterday Thomas came up with a nice way to do volumetric fog. We have a skinned animation system up and running. Really, every trick in the book you can do

FSAA??!?!?!?!?! BUT DK HAS HEARD COUNTLESS JAGGY REPORTS! LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Oh boy, come on, this gets easier every day.

Hey DK, I hear countless stories that every XBox game crashes 5 minutes in! WELL IT MUST BE A FACT! COUNTLESS! You know why you can't count them? Because there ae none! ROFL!

[FLiPmO]

DK.......What in the world does it give you the right to say that the gamecube can't do this or can't do that because It can't do it. How do you know?? Because you read a forum woth a lot of guys like you??

example:
The gamecube can't produce fur...
again they proved a lot of guys wrong with star fox.

ANyway I wonder where you get all these info from??? You know 90 percent of what you are saying here are just theorys about the gamecube specs.

You'll be amazed what the gamecube can produce and in theory is really impossible cause it has no "vertex shader or some kind of tech talk".

They know a lot of tricks that they can use. one of them is RE with the pre rendered back ground. Maybe you aren't amazed but all the other people were and gave it a 10 for graphics .

YEs in theory the gamecube has a "lack of memory bandwidth" to pull some stuff in games but do you really think Nintendo wasn't aware of this??? PLEASE they have more experience in consoles than any other console producer on the market since they brought the mmost consoles out on the market. Yes MS had some help from Nvidea and intell and they did a great job as you can see at the games you own on your xbox.


Here is a quote:

On the launch titles for the GameCube we've seen a number of lower resolution textures being used compared to the Xbox launch titles. That could just be a sign of the early adopters not taking advantage of the technology yet or it could be due to a lack of main memory bandwidth, it's too early to tell.

it's too early to tell anything!!!!!!! SO don't go yapping the gamecube can't do this or that......
And even though it can't use FSAA. You are the only one who will be booughteerd with it. Hey this game is ugly cause it doesn't use FSAA. The rest of the world will be like...WOw this is a great looking game and it will be rated a 9-10 by like everybody in the world.

So wake up DK. And quit yapping. Well I shouldn't say that it is rude. You may say whatever you believe in but it will be your opinion. But I will laugh my ass of when nintendo pulls some amazing stunts with the gamecube that nobody expects because of the specs.

See the specs of the xbox aren't sayiing a lot either and it is al theory. But MS is pushing the specs in everbody faces as well as the xbox fanboys (I am not saying DK here ,ok? so don't feel offended) do.

btw. quote is from anandtech

[Misfit410]

Resident Evil for NGC is unarguably the best looking game in existance right now. Yes the backgrounds are pre-rendered, want to know how it stacks up to PS2 games? read some of the later interviews with the RE team, they chose gamecube because PS2 hard-ware could not handle what was done in RE. the only thing that will clue you in that the backgrounds are pre-rendered, is that there is no way to move the camera, other than that, they have full depth and life, they are not like the PSX version, full shadows, amazing lighting, water, everything lives and breathes, the atmosphere is unlike anything you have ever seen before, some people who have played 5-10 minutes of it will argue, but if you have played in enough, and seen the eye candy to follow, it will blow your mind.

[Christberg]

I don't consider a thread on somebody's forum a reliable source of information any more than I consider a thread on this board a reliable piece of information, so you'll have to link to a hardware article from a reputable site. Thanks for trying though.

I really don't care about 32 bit color on a standard TV set much either. As I've said numerous times, current consoles pretty much have enough rendering power and the programmers and artist teams pretty much decide how good a game looks within it's current limitations, which are much more related to the TV it's running on than anything else with current setups.

[Sasquach]

the graphics suck cuz its pre-rendered and not realtime.
the gamecube cannot do anything cuz its impossible without a pixel/vertex shader component.
Without those, you will never see the effects like the Xbox can do.

And the pre-rendered backgrounds is SOO noticiable, SOO distracting because of its diminished quality that the game will be so ugly when u play thru it.

Whats wrong with decreasing the gamma? wouldnt that make the game more of what it should be (Horror?)
Would u rather play the game where all the whites are super-ultra-blinding white and all the blacks are grey or whould u play the game where all the blacks are black and all the whites are white?

Like every graphics whore, u can only see things when u are staring at the portions of the screens (focus your vision on that piece of paper sitting on the ground next to the character. Yeah that one thats blurry and static that doesnt move. Thats how the graphics are like. What? u didnt see that before? oh im sorry, i just ruined your entire play experience for you). If u pay attention to the actual game and environment (awaiting that scarey moment to jump out at your face) i swear, unless u are an extreme graphics whore, you will not notice the differences. (Or at least not care)

See it with your own eyes and judge for yourself. People here can only give u a taste of what its to look like.
But be warned. Once u have been told of a graphical downfall (that can be one of the smallest issues ever) you WILL see it.

Its like the whole ATI 16bit dithering fiasco. I didnt notice or give a crap about any of it (well, i still dont give a crap about it but i notice it now) until i came here and read countless posts about how the 16bit dithering sucks ass. Now i see it all over the place, but i still dont give a crap about it, cuz the actual game as a whole looks the same.

[Killdozer]

Eactly

What is everyone preoccupation with pre-rendered backgrounds? Does it really make you piss and moan like you are now? Or are you just looking for something to ***** at?

[Apocaliptik]

Hey DK if you would mabye actually use RE's built in Gamma corrector to get the brightness/darkness to the perfect level you will notice something. All those jaggies and such? They disappear! Wow! Mabye it because its a horror game and meant to be darker? Plus the whole god damn game takes place in one night.

[CowboyBebop]

Originally posted by DeathKnightMaF
I'd have to look through a handful of games... I'll just toss out a couple: Panzer Dragoon, Wreckless, etc.

Well, first off, Flipper doesn't even support 32-bit color, only 24-bit color and z-buffer. You can even go to Ninty's Cube specs to see this. Secondly, devs would have a hard time implementing AA on the Cube with anything higher than 16-bit color due to memory bandwidth contraints. You can go here and probably find something on it.

Your wrong again AA is a built in feature of the flipper and the GCN has plenty of bandwidth for it. I don't know why you assume this things and tell them as if you know what your talking about.

[Five-seveN]

3dfx is like, so 1996. Get with the times people!

[Killdozer]

Originally posted by Five-seveN
3dfx is like, so 1996. Get with the times people!

Good old days

First video card Diamond Monster VooDoo2 12mb! $399 baby, yeah!

[BoBVila]

$400 Canadian, I hope. Those 12 meggers debuted at 300 USD :P

[MyTMouse]

Well I own Resident Evil for GCN and I've played LOTS of games....it has some SWEET-LOOKING graphics. Pre-rendered or not, the lighting, character models, etc. are all amazing. Numerous sites (and no I don't feel like looking them all up) have said it's some of the best graphics they've ever seen...doesn't matter how it's rendered...it's how the final product looks and it's well done.

GCN can produce FSAA and has plenty of bandwidth to do so. You see (we've already been over this) it's 1T-SRAM...it's much more efficient than DDR RAM. You see take 3.2GB/s SDRAM...make it DDR RAM...now it becomes 6.4GB/s bandwidth. Problem is that is theoretical. Does the performance of the DDR RAM double that of the SDRAM?? not likely...nowhere close. Oh yah, make that DDR RAM shared with all the other hardware resources in the machine...chokes things down even further. Now that 1T-SRAM isn't shared with anything else...couple that with 3.1MB of embedded RAM on the GPU itself (boasting a bandwidth of an additional 10GB/s+) and you have yourself plenty of bandwidth for FSAA at a measly TV resolution

[Apocaliptik]

*applause* Thank you.

[Sasquach]

RENA RENA RENA RENA RENA RENA RENA RENA The DDR Is super l33t and much faster than SDRAM RENA RENA RENA RENA RENA RENA RENA RENA RENA RENA BANDWIDTH IS hella good compared to anything out there RENA RENA RENA RENA RENA RENA RENA RENA RENA RENA RENA so what if its 1T-Sram the bandwidth is still limited to the smaller number and Xbox has the larger numbe rRENA RENA RENA RENA RENA RENA pixel shader this/ vertex shader that, GCN cant do this cant do that only on Xbox blah blah....

something in that regard will be the argument to this memory bandwidth thing.

[orrimarrko]

Originally posted by Sasquach
the graphics suck cuz its pre-rendered and not realtime.
the gamecube cannot do anything cuz its impossible without a pixel/vertex shader component.
Without those, you will never see the effects like the Xbox can do.

And the pre-rendered backgrounds is SOO noticiable, SOO distracting because of its diminished quality that the game will be so ugly when u play thru it.

hmmm...

I played RE for Game Cube. Had it hooked up to a Sony Trinitron CPD-E500 21" monitor thro the composite inputs.

The game looked "Flawless", and close, to if not the best looking game Ive seen so far. The Pre Rendered backgrounds...you dont realise the back drop is pre rendered..because the light, depth of color, and characters and blood seemlesy blend into the background, and the style of game play it is and environment it creates, makes it one of the moodiest games Ive ever played.

Gamma is perfectly fine..and not once had any adjusting needed, or banded dark area's.


Me thinks Big-Foot here, really inst concerned what the GameCube can and cant do, he obviously established himself in the Xbox camp, and now mounts the far right turret gunning down people that may wander to close to a opposing console systems hill.

If he were open mnided, maybe he would realise both consoles have there advantages and disadvantages..and not camp this thread fling'ing trivial opinions, and poor exscuses around like a hot potato.

As for me, Ive played both Xbox and GC countless times, in a whole...I like Xbox's games more, because there on a maturer level, but face it Dude! RE is one kick ass game that out does Halo in general graphic quality,..be it on the GameCube, and PreRendered back-grounds...I dont care! Play the game, feel the environment, and thrist for more!

Good old days, First video card Diamond Monster VooDoo2 12mb! $399 baby, yeah!

I remember spending a Sickening $900 to have 2 Diamond Monster Voodoo 12mb's, running in SLI mode, for the added 1024x768 resolution support. And a S3 Virge as my primary graphics card for support for 24bit 2D color in windows....

God, those were the days.... beautiful 60+ FPS in Quake 2 @ 1024x768......and one dude living off of Taco Bell and Hot Dogs to cover the cost of all of it for 4 months after it.

[FLiPmO]

Originally posted by DeathKnightMaF
I'd have to look through a handful of games... I'll just toss out a couple: Panzer Dragoon, Wreckless, .

You are basing this on screen shots??

LMAO

You suxor. The game isn't already out there yet and now you are already using it for an example.


(cough)Metroid Prime(cough)

[Gerard]

Originally posted by DeathKnightMaF
Sorry, didn't see the "4" while skimming through your monotonous post.

3DFX had a proprietary way of implementing FSAA that didn't eat up bandwidth like most other forms of FSAA. Lucky for Nvidia they'll probably implement it with the NV30. On the other hand, both Xbox and GameCube's FSAA implementations eat up bandwidth.. Xbox just has more of it to go around.

If the Cube has no problem with FSAA and color bit-depth then why don't many games implement it? Why don't the Tony Hawk games implement it when the Xbox versions do? Why do many developers scale things back to accomodate it? Why? Tell me Bobby.

Care to correct what's wrong in that thread? Like BenSkywalker's posts (a person with a backround in 3D graphics) or ERP's comments (an actual game developer). You whine and cry that everyone else besides you, your Ninty henchmen, and anyone else supporting the Cube, are wrong because they say things you don't want to hear.

Reality bites Bobby.

Why don't you go back to the xbox addict forums and amaze some of the idiots over there with your ability to spew a few tons of crap from your mouth in mere seconds. Damn moron.

[FLiPmO]

Originally posted by Gerard


Why don't you go back to the xbox addict forums and amaze some of the idiots over there with your ability to spew a few tons of crap from your mouth in mere seconds. Damn moron.

Hey DK is mature and is an adult he knows what he is talking about cause he is verry smart .

[Ralph]

Originally posted by MyTMouse
Well I own Resident Evil for GCN and I've played LOTS of games....it has some SWEET-LOOKING graphics. Pre-rendered or not, the lighting, character models, etc. are all amazing. Numerous sites (and no I don't feel like looking them all up) have said it's some of the best graphics they've ever seen...doesn't matter how it's rendered...it's how the final product looks and it's well done.

GCN can produce FSAA and has plenty of bandwidth to do so. You see (we've already been over this) it's 1T-SRAM...it's much more efficient than DDR RAM. You see take 3.2GB/s SDRAM...make it DDR RAM...now it becomes 6.4GB/s bandwidth. Problem is that is theoretical. Does the performance of the DDR RAM double that of the SDRAM?? not likely...nowhere close. Oh yah, make that DDR RAM shared with all the other hardware resources in the machine...chokes things down even further. Now that 1T-SRAM isn't shared with anything else...couple that with 3.1MB of embedded RAM on the GPU itself (boasting a bandwidth of an additional 10GB/s+) and you have yourself plenty of bandwidth for FSAA at a measly TV resolution

Yeah, that's why there are games on the Cube that are a jagfest, yet the Xbox version uses FSAA. Wow, I'm completely amazed by the incredible amount of bandwidth on the Cube, too bad they hardly use it or should I say can't use it in most cases.