Racing games have hit diminishing returns.

[SubCog]

A long time ago.

Geez nowadays I can barely tell whether I'm looking at GT or Forza... or whether it's a new game or one released in the last several years.

Was thinking about it while watching this:
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PS5 Gran Turismo has nice looking clouds. Reminds me of MSFS.

I watched DF point out all the little differences between the previous 2 games, and I still can't really tell much difference.
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Honestly I think driving games perfected the cars years ago. To me, the biggest sore-thumb for driving games has been the trees, which still often stand out as ugly billboards, and they somehow get uglier the higher-res they are.

The game that I thought really nailed the trees was Forza Motorsport 1. There's something about the fuzzy low-res leaves that somehow really works for me, and just gets worse and worse as the series evolves over the years.
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[nutcrackr]

The main area they look the same is with vehicles. Just focus on tracks/locations/crowds and you can see which games look better. Even then some tracks will be photoscanned so they're just reproducing the same track.

[OverclockN']

I think the next Forza Motorsport is going to be remarkably different, judging from Horizons.

GT7 looks like it'll be good, but I wasn't floored with the visuals. Like you mentioned, I immediately noticed and was bothered by the trees. Sounds silly, since you'll be zipping along the track at high speed...but it was just very noticeable in the video and honestly looked pretty bad.

I don't agree with diminishing returns though, regarding visuals or handling. Still a LOT of room to improve. Especially when considering ray tracing.

[SubCog]

I think the next Forza Motorsport is going to be remarkably different, judging from Horizons.

GT7 looks like it'll be good, but I wasn't floored with the visuals. Like you mentioned, I immediately noticed and was bothered by the trees. Sounds silly, since you'll be zipping along the track at high speed...but it was just very noticeable in the video and honestly looked pretty bad.

I don't agree with diminishing returns though, regarding visuals or handling. Still a LOT of room to improve. Especially when considering ray tracing.

Good point about Horizon. Horizon has nailed dense foliage since Horizon 3. Now that they're doing that at 60fps, it would be nonsensical to have poor tree rendering in new Forza Motorsport games.

The Maple Valley video I posted above, you can really see how the tree rendering gets significantly worse between Forza 3 ---> Forza 7.

[Trunks0]

Just looks at RIDE 4.

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We are getting really close to racing games tapping on photo realism's door.

[OverclockN']

Just looks at RIDE 4.

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We are getting really close to racing games tapping on photo realism's door.

There's so many things they got right in that video. From the way the container of apple juice jiggles during bumps to the sound of the bike under load as it picks up the throttle on low speed corner exit. Yeah, that's super well done. Not to mention looking amazing to boot, even getting the right lean position.

[metroidfox]

Racing sims specifically have been making huge gains lately in the simulation aspect.

[SubCog]

Racing sims specifically have been making huge gains lately in the simulation aspect.

GAMES ARE FOR GRAGPHICS!!!!111

[Napoleonic]

I think the racing genre can die in not so distant future because the gameplay has peaked and has gotten stale... this is more true for the forzas and gran turismos of the industry, I look at gt7 and can't help but think that the game is so boring and outdated, racing on the same places over and over again has lost it's appeal compared to 10-20 years ago... these titles have an unsurmountable wall between sim and arcade that leave them on unsolvable dilemma, they can't make the game more realistic because that would alienate the mainstream user bases, but at the same time there's little more to achieve at their current level of gameplay mechanics, if they add arcade shenanigans into these titles they would also risk alienating the more hardcore audience and losing their game identity... so they are stuck between places.

the horizons and test drive solar crown of the industry can still make things fresh with their open world arcade shenanigans for now, but even that would get boring sooner than later...

the only viable option left that they haven't tried yet is to add wreckfest/flatout/burnout/destruction derby destruction gameplay into these titles... but... we all kinda know why they haven't done that since long ago, and that reason would remain a stumbling block... I want to see an open world wreckfest type game, for one reason or another even the dev behind wreckfest doesn't seem to be able to fulfill that next step of iteration...

the hardcore sim side of the genre will continue to thrive in small communities in the same way the DCS and PMDG crowd (and even the farming sim crowd) have thrived.

[SubCog]

I think the racing genre can die in not so distant future because the gameplay has peaked and has gotten stale... this is more true for the forzas and gran turismos of the industry, I look at gt7 and can't help but think that the game is so boring and outdated, racing on the same places over and over again has lost it's appeal compared to 10-20 years ago... these titles have an unsurmountable wall between sim and arcade that leave them on unsolvable dilemma, they can't make the game more realistic because that would alienate the mainstream user bases, but at the same time there's little more to achieve at their current level of gameplay mechanics, if they add arcade shenanigans into these titles they would also risk alienating the more hardcore audience and losing their game identity... so they are stuck between places.

the horizons and test drive solar crown of the industry can still make things fresh with their open world arcade shenanigans for now, but even that would get boring sooner than later...

the only viable option left that they haven't tried yet is to add wreckfest/flatout/burnout/destruction derby destruction gameplay into these titles... but... we all kinda know why they haven't done that since long ago, and that reason would remain a stumbling block... I want to see an open world wreckfest type game, for one reason or another even the dev behind wreckfest doesn't seem to be able to fulfill that next step of iteration...

the hardcore sim side of the genre will continue to thrive in small communities in the same way the DCS and PMDG crowd (and even the farming sim crowd) have thrived.

hmm... I do agree that it feels like it's time for the genre to adapt somehow. I just don't think new graphics is enough to justify new installments every few years anymore. Although I thought the GT Sport model was kindof dumb at the time, now I'm thinking that it might be the way to go in the future. Have a racing sim that is a living platform, and sell new cars, tracks, etc. each season. Instead of sequels, just continue to grow out the game's ecosystem. Cause graphics have hit diminishing returns.

Forza Horizon does basically what you're suggesting though. Add new game modes, novelty events, more action, etc. So far they've been able to keep each Horizon game fresh.

The other issue that's eventually going to have to be addressed is the changes in the current car industry. We've seen the industry move away from manual transmissions, for example... if you're a sim enthusiast that likes your clutch and stick shifter, you're really just using that for nostalgia, older muscle cars, etc. The modern car industry doesn't use those things anymore. We're seeing the shift to electric too. Eventually, driving loud gas powered cars in a driving sim will just be capturing nostalgia too. Once we switch over to autonomous robo-taxis, the whole driving game genre will become a retro throwback.

[Trunks0]

Could be fun to see a Forza, GT or Test Drive game that took place in the 60's or 70's for the entire game. Along with historic tracks or locations.

Really looking forward to solar crown and see how good the HongKong recreation is

[Elysian]

Hey, at least you don't have to pay for gas in racing games

[Destroy]

No one seems to be able to make 'the' racing game bringing it ALL into one package.

BeamNG.drive is by far the best of what I'm looking for but they have had their heads in their asses with Early Access forever and incompetently unable to put out a 15-25hour single player campaign or any kind of decent racing option within their sim.

Test Drive Unlimited/Forza Horizon would be great if they had an actual TRUE sim mode and real physics.

[Elysian]

No one seems to be able to make 'the' racing game bringing it ALL into one package.

BeamNG.drive is by far the best of what I'm looking for but they have had their heads in their asses with Early Access forever and incompetently unable to put out a 15-25hour single player campaign or any kind of decent racing option within their sim.

Test Drive Unlimited/Forza Horizon would be great if they had an actual TRUE sim mode and real physics.

BeamNG.drive is STILL early access? I haven't played since 2016, that's insane.

[metroidfox]

No one seems to be able to make 'the' racing game bringing it ALL into one package.

BeamNG.drive is by far the best of what I'm looking for but they have had their heads in their asses with Early Access forever and incompetently unable to put out a 15-25hour single player campaign or any kind of decent racing option within their sim.

Test Drive Unlimited/Forza Horizon would be great if they had an actual TRUE sim mode and real physics.

Real physics? A Lambo would beach itself, and destroy its underside within a few seconds of the way people drive on gravel.

[Canesfan2020]

Shouldn't you be looking at the road while driving?