Square Enix Boss sees end to Consoles

[Dyre Straits]

"Square Enix's President – and one of the most powerful men in the Japanese gaming industry – has seen into the future. And one thing he doesn't see is that console under your telly.

That's right. When none other than SqEnix boss Yoichi Wada wades into the debate about the future of consoles, traditional retail versus digital distribution and 'gaming in the cloud' it is time for Sony And Microsoft to listen in. And listen in good!

Wada has said that Sony and Microsoft are already prepared for the end of the console era."

More at the link below....

http://www.techradar.com/news/gaming/square-enix-boss-sees-end-of-consoles-in-sight-654303?src=rss&attr=newsgaming

[ASCI Blue]

Without a console, how is one supposed to interact with all this bitchin' software?

While downloads will dominate the market still gotta have somewhere to store the data locally.

[Alientank]

Consoles serve millions of gamers, I don't see them disappearing.

[nomore]

this is somewhat close to what I envisioned.
I expect Sony to combine Playstation with their TVs meaning it will be like a somewhat built-in console with their TV. and they might still offer a separate unit with a monthly rent fee where it will work like a VOD system you have with your cable company.

I don't think MS is going to take that direction, instead I expect MS to combine PC, windows operating system, xbox live and control scheme of natal where they will offer standard PCs in a tiered structure based on different hardware features. so it won't be just an entertainment unit but it will be something you can also use for business and etc.

I have no clue and don't know what to expect from nintendo.

While downloads will dominate the market still gotta have somewhere to store the data locally.

not really. there are online storage systems in place already so I don't think you need to worry about storing data locally.

[Pr3tty F1y]

Once there is enough bandwidth, it will be one big subscription system. You'll never truly own any game, you'll never be able to sell the games you purchase, and you will get nickeled and dimed for each and every last thing.

[nomore]

Once there is enough bandwidth, it will be one big subscription system. You'll never truly own any game, you'll never be able to sell the games you purchase, and you will get nickeled and dimed for each and every last thing.

I don't like the way it sounds when you put it like that.
that means more limitation, one system, one price, no freedom.
HELL NO.

maybe I should stop thinking about MS combining PC and xbox together and hope to god MS keeps them separate.

[Pr3tty F1y]

I don't like the way it sounds when you put it like that.
that means more limitation, one system, one price, no freedom.
HELL NO.

This is undoubtedly what they want. It's what everyone wants. It's control. It's why ISP's want to nix Net Neutrality. So they can make it more like cable television where you have tiers, basic, basic expanded, premium channels, etc.... Sony and MS would love to be able to do the same thing by keeping all the processing on the server side. That way it 1.) eliminates piracy/cheating 2.) they can mandate a subscription fee, 3.) and they can monitor your gaming habits to "market" to you with targeted ads.

[SpeckledJim]

This is undoubtedly what they want. It's what everyone wants. It's control. It's why ISP's want to nix Net Neutrality. So they can make it more like cable television where you have tiers, basic, basic expanded, premium channels, etc.... Sony and MS would love to be able to do the same thing by keeping all the processing on the server side. That way it 1.) eliminates piracy/cheating 2.) they can mandate a subscription fee, 3.) and they can monitor your gaming habits to "market" to you with targeted ads.

Spot on. Everything as a service, everything with a recurring fee. You will own nothing.

[MyTMouse]

Once there is enough bandwidth, it will be one big subscription system. You'll never truly own any game, you'll never be able to sell the games you purchase, and you will get nickeled and dimed for each and every last thing.

We're almost there already...yeah for advancing technology!

[nomore]

technology you win again.

[javiermq]

f*** technology.

[Sound_Card]

Cloud computing takes some serious hardware from the server side. Hardware in which MS/SONY have to provide for. Not only that, cloud only gaming will not be tolerated by retail chains. You seriously think chains such as Gamestop would not take that to the supreme court?

Cloud gaming will co-exist. Not exist by it self.. not now, not ever. Depending solely on bandwidth to get money and providing the upkeep for that is not only limiting, but stupid.

Hardware will exist no matter what. Where will this cloud computing be stored? How will sony not sell a console? LOL. nomore, not even close to everyone buys a bravia. Sony can't honestly depend on other hardware to install a playstation in someones home.

MS...
If anything, they are trying to distinguish the xbox from the PC. Not integrate it.

[Shark]

says the guy who couldnt come up with games other than Final Fantasy franchise.

[marqmajere]

says the guy who couldnt come up with games other than Final Fantasy franchise.

Which are fantastic, by the way.

[nomore]

Hardware will exist no matter what. Where will this cloud computing be stored? How will sony not sell a console? LOL. nomore, not even close to everyone buys a bravia. Sony can't honestly depend on other hardware to install a playstation in someones home.

MS...
If anything, they are trying to distinguish the xbox from the PC. Not integrate it.

are you making fun of my vision now?

Sony also sells TVs, it is will be a great opportunity for them to combine playstation with their TV to expand their user base.
I did say they might offer a rent fee for the unit like a cable company so you will never own anything but you will constantly pay a usage fee and they might make more money that way than selling a console.
when you sell the console that is a one time fee, with a rent fee it will be recurring.
I can see this approach work for Sony.

for MS, I don't think that will work and I am stuck with what some analysts said and the fact that MS wants to expand the user base for xbox and make it more than just an entertainment unit.
I expect MS will have different tiers for the next console and you will be able to install MS software and use business programs like Microsoft Office with next xbox.
xbox is becoming more like a PC lately and they are adding things like facebook, radio channel and etc. (that actually applies to all consoles, they are becoming more and more like a PC every day, adding PC like features, installing updates, firmwares, patches..) xbox live was based on PC and they expanding it already.
they will probably continue with that approach, and will find a way for them to add MS softwares to xbox and charge money for it.
I would not be surprised if we see a combination of PC and xbox in workplaces 5-10 years from now.
they can make a lot of money by leasing units and be competitive against dell and other companies.

there were bunch of articles about how MS and Sony take losses from selling hardware, and make money from accessories, games, xbox live, psn and etc. so I do see the current hardware era coming to an end.
but it will be a slow process and probably start with a rent fee for the hardware first, increased subscription fees and it will go from there.

[Pr3tty F1y]

Cloud computing takes some serious hardware from the server side. Hardware in which MS/SONY have to provide for. Not only that, cloud only gaming will not be tolerated by retail chains. You seriously think chains such as Gamestop would not take that to the supreme court?

This is a bad argument because there is no legal basis for it under any circumstances. Why hasn't Gamestop sued Steam? Because, it's simply another market place. It's competition and if a company plans to compete differently, and it works, its either change your business model or die. If MS/Sony started their own streaming only gaming there is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING Gamestop or any other retailer of physical games could do about it. It would be their marketing choice.

And if you think there actually is a legal argument, I'd love to hear it...

[nomore]

This is a bad argument because there is no legal basis for it under any circumstances. Why hasn't Gamestop sued Steam? Because, it's simply another market place. It's competition and if a company plans to compete differently, and it works, its either change your business model or die. If MS/Sony started their own streaming only gaming there is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING Gamestop or any other retailer of physical games could do about it. It would be their marketing choice.

And if you think there actually is a legal argument, I'd love to hear it...

the funny thing is I think retail stores are having hard-time competing with online stores and with digital distribution.
I recently went to bestbuy retail store and they told me now they are price matching to amazon.com!
a year ago they told me I had to find what I wanted in-stock in another retail store or they would not do a price match.
now I would not be surprised if I see a retail store do price match to xbox live, psn, steam and etc.

times are changing, it is either you adopt and compete or do nothing and hope for the best.

[Pr3tty F1y]

the funny thing is I think retail stores are having hard-time competing with online stores and with digital distribution.
I recently went to bestbuy retail store and they told me now they are price matching to amazon.com!
a year ago they told me I had to find what I wanted in-stock in another retail store or they would not do a price match.
now I would not be surprised if I see a retail store do price match to xbox live, psn, steam and etc.

word.

And the fact is, server-side gaming makes total sense for Sony/MS. The only issue would be Net Neutrality if ISPs could throttle bandwidth, then you'd likely have something like Apple's iPhone and AT&T, only in this case it would whatever local ISP they strike a deal with. However, the benefits of such a realationship could be bidirection for the game service provider and the ISP. However, what would really throw a wrench into the works would be if ISPs became the new "consoles" of the streaming world with their own hardware to provide server-side gaming. He who controls the bandwidth controls wins all

Server-side gaming makes much sense though from a business perspective. There essentially could be modular "console" farms built to fit the needs of a manufacturer. Updates would be as simple as updating the server-side hardware. So you essentially wouldn't have to buy new hardware as a gamer, but the subscription fee you'd be paying would still be much more than if you simply owned your own console. That's just the way it works. And the fact is, that the game-server provider could run different levels of hardware (i.e., something cheap/efficient for old school retro-games and something top of the line for newer games) and have that flexibility that is in their favor as well.

In the end, that's the way that these firms will want to move as it gives them the greatest amount of control and limits their losses through piracy.

[nomore]

what you said makes a lot of sense and I think it is definitely going to happen sooner or later.

but I am voting for sooner because of this statement you made:

In the end, that's the way that these firms will want to move as it gives them the greatest amount of control and limits their losses through piracy.

[mabran]

there were bunch of articles about how MS and Sony take losses from selling hardware, and make money from accessories, games, xbox live, psn and etc. so I do see the current hardware era coming to an end.
but it will be a slow process and probably start with a rent fee for the hardware first, increased subscription fees and it will go from there.

Other than Nintendo, it's pretty common fare in the early years of the console life cycle they sell for a loss and make it up in accessories and software licenses.

They sell at a loss to get units in the homes to sell the software and peripherals. How much loss depends on how much the company can afford to take and still meet the business projections they set for themselves. MS hasn't been losing money on the 360 for a while now and Sony last I read is still losing money on every unit but is getting closer to profit per unit.

The money has never been in the hardware and has always been the accessories and software that they make the oodles of cash.

Printer companies do it too. They sell a printer for more of a loss than MS or Sony would ever think of as acceptable in order to sell massively overpriced ink cartridges. It works and companies make tons of cash doing it.

[Sound_Card]

Steam? Last I checked, many of the games are available on a medium. If you can find a GS that carries PC games. Seems to be rare these days.

Without hardware to create an install base, you are completely undermining your own market and shifting it in the hands of other 3rd parties. Completely depending on bandwidth to provide solutions is insane.

What about the market of people such as kids, teens etc that have a consoles and play offline because they don't have internet in their room? What about people without internet? What about transportation and mobility/ going to places with no such connection or access.

The original concern was cloud only gaming. My counter argument is that it would NEVER EXIST BY IT SELF. It will exist along side a medium as an option.

And steam is not cloud computing by the way. The software is installed on your computer and run off your computer.

[daPhoenix]

Early 2000 everyone was certain that the thin client would make normal desktop computers obsolete because of high speed lans and the net - everyone knew this was inevitable and there was no way the normal desktop system could survive because they were too expensive to buy and maintain.

As we know, they were all right.

[KAC]

I predict more exclusivity in content for differing hardware going forward...

/wishful thinking

[Maze]

lol anyone taking japanese developers seriously anymore.... If there is one thing japanese developers should do, is listen more to people outside from japan -> also known as "the west"

Consoles won't be gone in a longtime. Content delivery however will be more and more digital and crossplatform.

[Encyclopedia_b]

This is undoubtedly what they want. It's what everyone wants. It's control. It's why ISP's want to nix Net Neutrality. So they can make it more like cable television where you have tiers, basic, basic expanded, premium channels, etc.... Sony and MS would love to be able to do the same thing by keeping all the processing on the server side. That way it 1.) eliminates piracy/cheating 2.) they can mandate a subscription fee, 3.) and they can monitor your gaming habits to "market" to you with targeted ads.

scary picture you paint there ...

We're almost there already...yeah for advancing technology!

i still think where 10-25 years out on that ... i saw an ad or soemthing on tv saying that in 2002 we had like 3% broadband here in the states

unless we have a serious population migration back to the cities

[Pr3tty F1y]

Steam? Last I checked, many of the games are available on a medium. If you can find a GS that carries PC games. Seems to be rare these days.

Without hardware to create an install base, you are completely undermining your own market and shifting it in the hands of other 3rd parties. Completely depending on bandwidth to provide solutions is insane.

What about the market of people such as kids, teens etc that have a consoles and play offline because they don't have internet in their room? What about people without internet? What about transportation and mobility/ going to places with no such connection or access.

The original concern was cloud only gaming. My counter argument is that it would NEVER EXIST BY IT SELF. It will exist along side a medium as an option.

And steam is not cloud computing by the way. The software is installed on your computer and run off your computer.

OK, so the legal argument you brought up is just BS then? Plus, never did I ascertain that Steam was cloud computing. It was an innovative Market Place that is now taking away from sales of other retailers physical software installation media.

And yes, while the US is behind in broadband, Japan and the continental EU are not. Hell, Finland just made internet a basic right. Saying this will never happen is not very forward thinking. It will take time, but eventually it will role out just like this. It may not be the next round, but that was not what was brought up in the original post either. But it is a model that we will move towards as newer technologies will provide ample opportunity for it to exist. Thus, someone will try to make money off of it.

And just like Apple and AT&T found an economic partnership that benefited them both, I have no doubt a server-side gaming vendor would be able to work deals with ISPs. It would benefit both parties. People "purchasing" games from the server-side gaming vendor and people switching to a particular ISP given exclusives.

The same arguments about server-side gaming can be made about cable TV. What if a kid doesn't have cable TV in his room. Well.. you run a wire. With internet tech, you either run a wire or go wireless. And with technologies like WiMAX and their future generations, I don't think this scenario is nearly as impossible as you paint.

scary picture you paint there ...



i still think where 10-25 years out on that ... i saw an ad or soemthing on tv saying that in 2002 we had like 3% broadband here in the states

unless we have a serious population migration back to the cities

Yes, North America is behind on broadband, but newer technology will continue to cut that gap. I found a 2007 article that 50% of Americans have broadband in their homes. Not just access to it, but have subscriptions already. Accounting for the elderly/old, I would wager that most people interested in gaming are likely to have a broadband connection.

It may be a tad far off, but I don't think its extraordinarily far off. Given we don't blow ourselves up first or the LHC doesn't create a massive black hole, it will happen within our life time and more than likely it will happen while we're still interested in gaming.

[Encyclopedia_b]

i have dsl ... i consider it barely broadband and call it a medium speed internet connection

[mabran]

I think the title should be "Square Enix Boss smokes crack pipe and halucinates"

We are a long way off from any sort of reliable streaming solution that will be reliable for the mass market.

What the industry considers broadband and what most people have would not cut it by any means.

The only benefit is to the corporations that would gain total control of when where and how you will enjoy their media.

Retailers have no leg to sue over anything but they hold the right not to support the companies that hold profit from them.

After being overseas in the military I learned that the US will hold anything back until they can find a way to milk it for every dollar. Then they will milk it when other countries will be generations ahead technologically speaking while they still milk the outdated technology.

Instead of companies moving forward they sit and complain to the government for a handout because they don't want to use thier profits to improve the business for the furture. Boradband companies are the best at this making excuses and milking technology that should have been replaced years ago and raising prices and placing caps on usage.

Until affordable "real" broadband is available to everyone any real advances in this area would limit customer base. Companies want to sell to everyone they can not the small percentage able to use what they sell.

[Jet Black]

are you making fun of my vision now?

Sony also sells TVs, it is will be a great opportunity for them to combine playstation with their TV to expand their user base.
I did say they might offer a rent fee for the unit like a cable company so you will never own anything but you will constantly pay a usage fee and they might make more money that way than selling a console.
when you sell the console that is a one time fee, with a rent fee it will be recurring.
I can see this approach work for Sony.

This makes perfect sense for Sony as they are primarily a hardware/technology company. I know there are already Sony TV's with built-in Ethernet and the ability to stream movies from their Sony service, so combining PS3 type abilities into a TV does not seem far fetched at all, especially if they can sell the games directly to you as a service.

for MS, I don't think that will work and I am stuck with what some analysts said and the fact that MS wants to expand the user base for xbox and make it more than just an entertainment unit.
I expect MS will have different tiers for the next console and you will be able to install MS software and use business programs like Microsoft Office with next xbox.
xbox is becoming more like a PC lately and they are adding things like facebook, radio channel and etc. (that actually applies to all consoles, they are becoming more and more like a PC every day, adding PC like features, installing updates, firmwares, patches..) xbox live was based on PC and they expanding it already.

To be perfectly honest, I don't know why Microsoft is still in the console hardware business. Granted, they are doing very well in North America, but they are primarily a software company. If there is going to be a merger, merging of Xbox and Windows makes the most sense.. Since Microsoft is primarily a software company, who specializes in operating systems, Xbox could easily be ported over to become a PC operating system. A couple options would be Windows 8 Gaming Edition (with XBox software included) or possibly a seperate XBox Gaming Software application that wraps around the OS and at boot you can choose PC or Xbox. Either way, it makes so little sense for Microsoft to keep losing money on hardware when they could make a gaming-specific OS and let the hardware vendors create 'certified XBox Home Theater PC' boxes with XBox controllers and all the fixins (and charge a licensing fee to put those Certified XBox gaming PC stickers on the cases).

[daPhoenix]

I think the title should be "Square Enix Boss smokes crack pipe and halucinates"

Good one, now I can go to bed laughing

[SubCog]

i have dsl ... i consider it barely broadband and call it a medium speed internet connection

my parent's DSL just got bumped up to 11mps. Speakeasy's test tops out at about 7mps (1.2m up), and my ping to any given website is between 40-100. It's a vast improvement over what they had a couple of months ago (their DSL has always been terrible up until now).

[mabran]

Good one, now I can go to bed laughing

Happy to be of service