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    'Jasper' revision of Xbox 360 with 65nm ATI GPU, is finally in stores





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    Are you looking to showcase your brand in front of the gaming industry’s top leaders? Learn more about GamesBeat Summit sponsorship opportunities here.  The long-awaited Jasper-based versions of the Xbox 360 have finally emerged on the market. These new consoles have a redesigned motherboard with the new 65-nanometer version of the ATI (now AMD) graphics […]



    Microsoft finally addresses Red Ring of Death with Jasper-based
    Xbox 360 consoles
    Dean Takahashi | November 28th, 2008


    The long-awaited Jasper-based versions of the Xbox 360 have finally emerged on the market. These new consoles have a redesigned motherboard with the new 65-nanometer version of the ATI (now AMD) graphics chip that doesn’t run as hot as previous versions. There are other changes that improve the reliability and usability of the system as well.

    With the new design, Microsoft has a chance to rise above the problems associated with the Red Ring of Death, as chronicled in VentureBeat’s six-part series on the subject. We’ll see if the systems prove reliable. But logically, they should be a lot better. The graphics chip will likely consume less power than previous versions, allowing it to fit snugly into its motherboard socket. That should lead to fewer system failures due to the graphics chips coming loose.

    The new graphics chip will also be smaller and cost less to make. These changes and others lower the overall system costs. That’s why Microsoft was able to cut its price on all of its Xbox 360 models in September. These new Jasper models come with 256 megabytes of internal flash memory, which is used to store all of the New Xbox Experience dashboard. The NXE doesn’t have to be stored on a hard drive or external memory unit and can thus work with even the Xbox 360 Arcade model without a hard drive. You can also use this internal memory to store Xbox Live Arcade saved games.

    Older models had just 16 megabytes. Also, they have a 150-watt power supply, less than the earlier versions with 175 watts. These power supplies have a different plug so that you won’t confuse them with older versions and plug the wrong one into a machine.

    The previous versions of the Xbox 360 had a 90-nanometer graphics chip that proved unreliable due to overheating issues. Those models were still in inventory in warehouses and at retail. So it has taken several months to flush those out of the system. Still, it’s not clear yet how you can distinguish the Jasper models from the older Falcon-based machines, but I assume it will have something to do with serial numbers listed on the boxes.

    What exactly was wrong with the older 90-nanometer graphics chips and the boards that came with them? I’ve gotten some new information on that. The main failure cause was “thermal fatigue” of the leaded C4 connections between the graphics chip die and its organic carrier. The underfill had too low a glass-transition temperature for the amount of heat generated. That caused cracking over time, resulting in graphics chips coming loose.

    In previous versions, Microsoft addressed this with better heat sinks. The temperature sense diode was off in a corner and didn’t reflect the true temperature in the core regions. Jasper has shifted to a material with a significantly higher transition temperature. Coming up with this fix took time, since the new material had to be identified and tested. The smaller 65nm chip die also helps since the stresses that cause the thermal fatigue are related to size.

    other articles

    The new motherboards that Xbox 360 fans have been waiting for since August have finally been spotted in the wild. Could this mean the end of the Red Ring of Death?

    We've had some false alarms in the past, but it looks like the first Jasper-equipped Xbox 360s may now finally be starting to make their way out into the wild. While there unfortunately still aren't any pictures of the motherboard to completely put this thing to rest, everything else certainly seems to be pointing in the right direction, including a 150W power supply (25W less than the current models), a manufacturing date of 2008-10-23, an 0843X lot number, and a power adapter that most definitely won't fit in a Falcon console -- head on past the break for a pic of it. Now, anyone feel like cracking open some cases?Update: Picture of the guts now posted over at xbox-scene. Interestingly, it appears that the new mobo brings 256MB onboard flash memory (up from 16MB). Those look like 65-nm process chips to you?[Thanks to everyone who sent this in]


    Microsoft's updated Xbox 360 consoles using "Jasper" 65nm process GPU chips are believed to be finally shipping.  Initially expected in August, the freshly fettled console…



    Microsoft never officially comments on its internal redesigns of Xbox 360 hardware, but it is no secret that the company does periodic revisions to make its console...
    Last edited by windycityguy; Nov 28, 2008, 04:16 PM.

    #2


    Still uses x-clamps = still chance of RROD. hopefully the reduction in the amount of heat it puts out is enough to compensate for those stupid xclamps.

    Comment


      #3
      About time. Hopefully this will mean a reliable system for people wanting to get a console that they don't want the hassle of having to deal with warranty support.

      The x-clamps should be fine as long as the system is running cooler, works fine for PC mobo's & CPU's so should be fine...


      ...well hope so anyway.

      Comment


        #4
        The x-clamps do look beefier for sure, but I still wouldn't be surprised if you had an RROD on a Jasper.
        Perky McGiggles
        And he sayeth unto Perky, the numbers 2, 5, and/or 7 are an
        abomination and should never be used in an internet forum
        name, so sayeth the Lord.
        - Penguins 22, chapter 3, verse 8

        Comment


          #5
          The Xclamps were never the cause, The heat was the problem as it caused board warping and cracking poorly soldered connections (which indirectly was related to the xclamps). With 65nm process on the GPU, heat should not be an issue now and the X clamps are doing what they were designed for in securing the heatsinks.

          While the Xclamps were related to the issue in the older systems does not mean it holds true now.

          Let's wait and see before passing judgment on the design. Although the same few will dig up a story of one dying and say "see it's still a problem"
          system spec: DA-GOODS
          FX [email protected] , 8GB X4 crucial 1666, X-Fire Radeon 7970 3GB X2, ASUS Sabertooth 990FX r2.0, 2x Samsung 830 128GB (boot drive) 2X 1TB Samsung HE103UJ SATA HD's, Windows 8 Pro.

          system spec: HYPER-V
          Phenom II 1090T , 8GB X4 Crucial 1666, Samsung SATA Dual Layer Burner, 5x 1TB Samsung HE103UJ SATA HD's, Windows Server 2008 R2

          Comment


            #6
            finally,
            i would like to get a new xbox360 system , but it must be able to play game without having to worry about rrod.

            i live in hongkong and it get as hot as 40 C in the summer. HEAT and RROD is a problem here for sure
            Last edited by wc326; Nov 29, 2008, 10:23 PM.
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            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by mabran View Post
              The Xclamps were never the cause, The heat was the problem as it caused board warping and cracking poorly soldered connections (which indirectly was related to the xclamps). With 65nm process on the GPU, heat should not be an issue now and the X clamps are doing what they were designed for in securing the heatsinks.

              While the Xclamps were related to the issue in the older systems does not mean it holds true now.

              Let's wait and see before passing judgment on the design. Although the same few will dig up a story of one dying and say "see it's still a problem"
              AFAIK they are still using the same ****ty soldering. Yeah heat may not be an issue if you have it in a temperate environment but the possibility is still there.

              I'm not saying don't get one, just that no matter what you do you still are going to have a chance of RROD. So just grab whatever one you find, you have a 3 year warranty anyway.
              Perky McGiggles
              And he sayeth unto Perky, the numbers 2, 5, and/or 7 are an
              abomination and should never be used in an internet forum
              name, so sayeth the Lord.
              - Penguins 22, chapter 3, verse 8

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by Perky McGiggles View Post
                AFAIK they are still using the same ****ty soldering. Yeah heat may not be an issue if you have it in a temperate environment but the possibility is still there.

                I'm not saying don't get one, just that no matter what you do you still are going to have a chance of RROD. So just grab whatever one you find, you have a 3 year warranty anyway.
                Well I have 3 360's

                1 Launch (runs perfectly)
                1 Elite (died after a year with RROD) replaced with flacon from MS runs perfectly fine
                1 Arcade (falcon) runs perfectly fine

                It's odd that the system that gets the least use died on me LOL . I have one on every TV in the house for media streaming and TV and other than my Elite has been a trouble free experience across the board.

                We only still hear of the issues with the launch consoles and nothing about Falcon, so I think Falcon or newer is a safe bet if RROD is a worry to the buyer. Me personally don't worry about a piece of electronics as I am going to use it for what it was made for than if it breaks, I get it replaced under warranty.

                As for the cruddy soldering it's not an MS only issue, blame the environmentalists for leadless solder. Many elctronics have had issues since that mandate was placed into effect. The tin solder used today just doesn't hold up as well as lead based solder and definately doesn't handle the heat as well. I'd be curious to see if the board warpage that made the tin solder joints crack would have done the same with lead based solder. I have seen more solder failures in recent years but we are in the era of disposable goods and that is just how it is today. Things are just made to fail.

                I know it's all for the environment as we don't need greenpeace knocking on our doors because of some solder taking time away from navigating their diesel burning boats protesting oil rig drilling.
                system spec: DA-GOODS
                FX [email protected] , 8GB X4 crucial 1666, X-Fire Radeon 7970 3GB X2, ASUS Sabertooth 990FX r2.0, 2x Samsung 830 128GB (boot drive) 2X 1TB Samsung HE103UJ SATA HD's, Windows 8 Pro.

                system spec: HYPER-V
                Phenom II 1090T , 8GB X4 Crucial 1666, Samsung SATA Dual Layer Burner, 5x 1TB Samsung HE103UJ SATA HD's, Windows Server 2008 R2

                Comment


                  #9
                  If it was a case where they had taken several months to flush out of warehouses you would think that the holiday bundles would all be jasper sense they werent released till about a month ago, however i just looked on the power supply for the holiday bundle pro model that i bought on friday and its 175w.

                  And in the little time that i have used it so far i have already had dead rising crash to dashboard twice and tony hawk proving ground lock up and need me to shut off the system after about 5 minutes of play.(not played it again sense then.) It's loud as hell too. It's a little dissapointing for a system thats been out for 3 years to still have these problems. The DVD drive in my first PS3 died on me after about 6 or 7 months, and the one i replaced it with is much quiter and the discs load differently. Just find it a little odd that Sony has already taken steps to fix complaints and issues with there console and MS is still having trouble with the RRoD and crashing/freazing systems. On the other hand at least im covered for 3 years with the 360.

                  I noticed that most of the ventelation on the 360 is on the bottom (if standing upright) almost every time i see a 360 its in an uprite position. Is this primarily for aesthetic reasons?
                  Last edited by jimjobob; Nov 30, 2008, 09:43 AM.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    LOL @ n00bs blaming the X-Clamps when their own PCs likely use an X-Clamp if they have an intel processor.
                    "The raindrop never feels responsible for the flood."

                    Comment


                      #11
                      i just bought a 360, for some reason i highly doubt i got the jasper revision. I think the falcon. I hope...
                      ASUS M2N-SLI Deluxe (bios version:1203)
                      nForce 570 SLI
                      X2 6400+ (3.2 GHZ)
                      Generic AMD Heatsink
                      4GB Crucial Ballistix
                      SATA 750 gigs/250GB Hard Drives
                      Maxtor External HD: 120GB/Enclosure: 120GB
                      Sapphire Radeon HD 4870
                      Audigy 4 SE
                      RocketFish 750w
                      ASUS VW246H
                      Windows 7 Home Preimum

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by Oui View Post
                        LOL @ n00bs blaming the X-Clamps when their own PCs likely use an X-Clamp if they have an intel processor.
                        And likely their GPU gets just as hot if they have a G80-based processor.

                        Its all about the HSF

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by Oui View Post
                          LOL @ n00bs blaming the X-Clamps when their own PCs likely use an X-Clamp if they have an intel processor.
                          If the xclamps were doing their job right it wouldn't break apart, despite the soldering.

                          I fixed my 360 by taking out the x-clamps and screwing the heatsink directly as tight as I possibly could. Been smooth sailing since then....
                          Perky McGiggles
                          And he sayeth unto Perky, the numbers 2, 5, and/or 7 are an
                          abomination and should never be used in an internet forum
                          name, so sayeth the Lord.
                          - Penguins 22, chapter 3, verse 8

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by Insung View Post
                            i just bought a 360, for some reason i highly doubt i got the jasper revision. I think the falcon. I hope...
                            The Falcon is just fine.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by Sound_Card View Post
                              The Falcon is just fine.
                              Yeh, it seems Falcon is when MS truly got things under control. Previous models didn't have thermal management down properly, resulting in the GPU roasting itself off the mobo.

                              Comment


                                #16
                                Originally posted by Sound_Card View Post
                                The Falcon is just fine.
                                There are still issues with the falcons. It has gotten better but things arent where they should be. When falcons came out there was about a 15% failure rate. Which is still pretty crap, but great compared to the close to 50% they used to have. These numbers were from someone who helped develop the 360.

                                Jasper should make things even better. I just bought another 360 recently and its a falcon. I honestly dont expect to have any issues. Hopefully. But from what I hear the turnaround time to get a replacement is pretty good these days anyways.

                                As for the leadless solder being used. I dont think it would have made a difference. When you actually see how bad some of these boards were warping, i dont think any kind of solder would have held up. And yes, the xclamps dont help. This is why people create their own ways to hold the heatsinks on which actually make it near impossible for the board to warp.

                                The whole issue is too much heat and not enough airflow. Im wondering if adding a simple fan to the heatsinks would have been enough? Everyone has to remember, these were originally designed to be watercooled.

                                Mines been running great for the past week and Ive been logging in lots of hours daily on it. Only issue I really have now is how loud the dvd drive is. I think its even louder than the one I used to have like 2 years ago!
                                Uncharted 2: Greatest game this gen? Or greatest game ever?

                                Comment


                                  #17
                                  Originally posted by plan-9 View Post
                                  Everyone has to remember, these were originally designed to be watercooled.
                                  Surely not, where did you come up with that? It doesn't rightly make sense as water cooling requires maintenance beyond what can be expected of the general consumer.
                                  Last edited by kyleb; Dec 1, 2008, 12:08 PM.

                                  Comment


                                    #18
                                    Monstrance? It's a word, but I can't see how it fits in that sentence.

                                    Comment


                                      #19
                                      That 15% I remember is not just RROD. It includes PSU, and DVD drive as well. I'm not saying it's perfect. My falcon has been a freaking work horse though. I'm just saying, falcons are are pretty safe.

                                      Comment


                                        #20
                                        Originally posted by plan-9 View Post
                                        There are still issues with the falcons. It has gotten better but things arent where they should be. When falcons came out there was about a 15% failure rate. Which is still pretty crap, but great compared to the close to 50% they used to have. These numbers were from someone who helped develop the 360.
                                        Link please. I think I remember the article, but pretty sure there was no evidence that the guy ever worked for microsoft.

                                        Comment


                                          #21
                                          When they said watercooled way back when, they were assuming consumers wouldn't know the difference and they were considering the heat pipe as water cooled. We all know it is not however and was a bit of a cheesy marketing thing to do.

                                          Also in reference to the *cough* source, I'm sorry but any one of us can float a random number, claim to work for the company and say it's all bad and feel free not to give our name and say "hey believe me I said so"

                                          We don't really hear of Falcon failures rather the launch consoles are still the rehashed story used over and over.

                                          If current 360's still suffered the same amount of issues as the launch units, nobody would be buying them, their market would be dwindling fast and they would no longer be relevant.

                                          People still buy these systems and buy craploads of software and online content for it.

                                          They have made strides in reliability and customer perception and mindshare in the real world not internet forums where the same story get's rehashed over and over and thought of as fact posted by some bloggers living in anonymity.
                                          system spec: DA-GOODS
                                          FX [email protected] , 8GB X4 crucial 1666, X-Fire Radeon 7970 3GB X2, ASUS Sabertooth 990FX r2.0, 2x Samsung 830 128GB (boot drive) 2X 1TB Samsung HE103UJ SATA HD's, Windows 8 Pro.

                                          system spec: HYPER-V
                                          Phenom II 1090T , 8GB X4 Crucial 1666, Samsung SATA Dual Layer Burner, 5x 1TB Samsung HE103UJ SATA HD's, Windows Server 2008 R2

                                          Comment


                                            #22
                                            Originally posted by SpeckledJim View Post
                                            Monstrance? It's a word, but I can't see how it fits in that sentence.
                                            Heh, I got sloppy with the spellcheck. Fixed now.

                                            Comment


                                              #23
                                              Originally posted by mabran View Post
                                              When they said watercooled way back when, they were assuming consumers wouldn't know the difference and they were considering the heat pipe as water cooled. We all know it is not however and was a bit of a cheesy marketing thing to do.

                                              Also in reference to the *cough* source, I'm sorry but any one of us can float a random number, claim to work for the company and say it's all bad and feel free not to give our name and say "hey believe me I said so"

                                              We don't really hear of Falcon failures rather the launch consoles are still the rehashed story used over and over.

                                              If current 360's still suffered the same amount of issues as the launch units, nobody would be buying them, their market would be dwindling fast and they would no longer be relevant.

                                              People still buy these systems and buy craploads of software and online content for it.

                                              They have made strides in reliability and customer perception and mindshare in the real world not internet forums where the same story get's rehashed over and over and thought of as fact posted by some bloggers living in anonymity.

                                              I dont think they would say it was watercooled if they were referring to the heatpipe. That literally makes no sense. I remember when the 360 first came out, I forget what website it was, but the tore open the 360 and were shocked there was no watercooling, they even cut open the heatpipe to see if there was water in it. I dont think it was a marketing things either. Im pretty sure at one point the 360 was indeed meant to be watercooled. They obviously did not go through with it though. Instead we got a heatpipe which Im not sure how well it works since the heatpipe doesnt go anywhere. I thought heatpipes were supposed to move the heat elsewhere usually using a long pipe.

                                              As for the source, it was one of the designers of the 360. It was posted in the forum and it was real. As Sound_Card did mention, the failure rate numbers dont include just the rrod but basically all returns. 15% is still high, but considering what it was at...its quite an acheivment.

                                              I totally disagree with you on people not buying the 360 even though the high failure rate. When it was still near 50% failure rate and widely known, people were still buying them. And this was even before the 3 year warranty. How many people on here have bought multiple 360's because theirs broke before the warranty came into play? So even people whove had them break on them still went out and bought another one. The software library is very very impressive and that makes it worth it especially now with the warranty. Im someone who believes the problem isnt solved, yet I just bought a new 360 because of the software I want to play. To say theirs no issues anymore and people are just rehashing stories is kinda foolish in a way. RROD still happens on Falcons, and WILL happen on the Jaspers. It is nowhere near as widespread as it was. And with the Falcons, its near a % where you can almost say its not a problem really, just the nature of higher end electronics. The jasper I believe will hit that mark. But theres always a possibility for the RROD.

                                              No question MS has done a lot in terms of reliability and customer perception. The 3 year extended warranty is something you might not see from Sony or maybe even Nintendo if the same situation happened to them.
                                              Uncharted 2: Greatest game this gen? Or greatest game ever?

                                              Comment


                                                #24
                                                Originally posted by kyleb View Post
                                                Surely not, where did you come up with that? It doesn't rightly make sense as water cooling requires maintenance beyond what can be expected of the general consumer.
                                                Go back and view/read press releases before the 360 was launched. MS did indeed say it was watercooled. What they meant of watercooling may not be your typical pc style of watercooling. Some people thought the heatpipe was supposed to contain water. But fact is MS did say it was watercooled. Then somewhere along the way it was taken out in favor of Im sure a much cheaper heatpipe.
                                                Uncharted 2: Greatest game this gen? Or greatest game ever?

                                                Comment


                                                  #25
                                                  Originally posted by {WOR}lock View Post
                                                  Link please. I think I remember the article, but pretty sure there was no evidence that the guy ever worked for microsoft.
                                                  No idea where the link is now. Im pretty sure his story checked out if I remember correctly. Dont really see why not to trust it since it was pretty positive. Going from near 50% failure to near 15% is a huge acheivement.
                                                  Uncharted 2: Greatest game this gen? Or greatest game ever?

                                                  Comment


                                                    #26
                                                    Originally posted by plan-9 View Post
                                                    I dont think they would say it was watercooled if they were referring to the heatpipe. That literally makes no sense. I remember when the 360 first came out, I forget what website it was, but the tore open the 360 and were shocked there was no watercooling, they even cut open the heatpipe to see if there was water in it. I dont think it was a marketing things either. Im pretty sure at one point the 360 was indeed meant to be watercooled. They obviously did not go through with it though. Instead we got a heatpipe which Im not sure how well it works since the heatpipe doesnt go anywhere. I thought heatpipes were supposed to move the heat elsewhere usually using a long pipe.

                                                    As for the source, it was one of the designers of the 360. It was posted in the forum and it was real. As Sound_Card did mention, the failure rate numbers dont include just the rrod but basically all returns. 15% is still high, but considering what it was at...its quite an acheivment.

                                                    I totally disagree with you on people not buying the 360 even though the high failure rate. When it was still near 50% failure rate and widely known, people were still buying them. And this was even before the 3 year warranty. How many people on here have bought multiple 360's because theirs broke before the warranty came into play? So even people whove had them break on them still went out and bought another one. The software library is very very impressive and that makes it worth it especially now with the warranty. Im someone who believes the problem isnt solved, yet I just bought a new 360 because of the software I want to play. To say theirs no issues anymore and people are just rehashing stories is kinda foolish in a way. RROD still happens on Falcons, and WILL happen on the Jaspers. It is nowhere near as widespread as it was. And with the Falcons, its near a % where you can almost say its not a problem really, just the nature of higher end electronics. The jasper I believe will hit that mark. But theres always a possibility for the RROD.

                                                    No question MS has done a lot in terms of reliability and customer perception. The 3 year extended warranty is something you might not see from Sony or maybe even Nintendo if the same situation happened to them.
                                                    I never said there are not still issues. Every revision of every mass produced piece of electronics has issues they are just fewer and fewer as the lifecycle goes on.

                                                    MS has been much better every revision but a 15% failure rate would still get the forums up in arms as that is still too high and all we generally hear about is about launch consoles still today, very little if no falcon mentions wherever I read. That is one of the reasons I get argumentative sometimes because people who quote RROD are referring to lauch consoles still today with no mention of current manufacturing processes or maybe it's all they can keep a hold of since there is a general lack of falcon issues being talked about and that is a good thing.

                                                    It doesn't matter what they do to it there will still be failures and the moment one jasper fails the usual suspects will be posting "see it isn't fixed" when the numbers could be very well within acceptable margins.

                                                    But this is the internet where anybody can say anything they want without fear of things normal folks in the outside world have to deal with, like proof from credible sources for example.

                                                    I like all the consoles although I sold the wii as no games came in the year I had it I wanted so why keep it?
                                                    system spec: DA-GOODS
                                                    FX [email protected] , 8GB X4 crucial 1666, X-Fire Radeon 7970 3GB X2, ASUS Sabertooth 990FX r2.0, 2x Samsung 830 128GB (boot drive) 2X 1TB Samsung HE103UJ SATA HD's, Windows 8 Pro.

                                                    system spec: HYPER-V
                                                    Phenom II 1090T , 8GB X4 Crucial 1666, Samsung SATA Dual Layer Burner, 5x 1TB Samsung HE103UJ SATA HD's, Windows Server 2008 R2

                                                    Comment


                                                      #27
                                                      I kind of wish I hadn't sprang for my Falcon-class Elite back during Dell's next-to-last sale on them now, but oh well...
                                                      The three stages of [whatever] fandom:

                                                      1. "OMG IT'S COMING!!!"
                                                      2. "OMG IT'S HERE!!!!!"
                                                      3. "....wait a minute. This isn't the Second Coming! This sucks!"


                                                      Originally posted by Qb2k5
                                                      I like them tall and petite.

                                                      Comment


                                                        #28
                                                        Got one! order the holiday bundle from amazon. I was like where is my memory card!

                                                        Comment


                                                          #29
                                                          Is there any way to ensure the purchase of a Jasper revision? I was thinking about getting someone a 360 but I'd give him my current 360 if I could get this one.

                                                          Comment


                                                            #30
                                                            Originally posted by plan-9 View Post
                                                            Go back and view/read press releases before the 360 was launched. MS did indeed say it was watercooled. What they meant of watercooling may not be your typical pc style of watercooling. Some people thought the heatpipe was supposed to contain water. But fact is MS did say it was watercooled. Then somewhere along the way it was taken out in favor of Im sure a much cheaper heatpipe.
                                                            Looks like they were talking about the heatpipe cooling all along to me, just trying to play it up by using a very loose definition of the phrase "watter cooled".

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