Blu-ray Disc Association declares victory over HD DVD

[Jack & Coke]

http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/01/08/blu-ray-disc-association-declares-victory-over-hd-dvd/

• Only 4 of the top 20 DVDs last year are from the HD DVD camp. Almost all the top 20 movies are only available on Blu-ray.

• Blu-ray has 96% of the HD player market in Japan. "In terms of Japan, the game is already over there."
• BDA really launched in mass in Q4 which is why they haven't had a huge penetration into the market.
• Every major CE company in the BDA is also a major provider of HDTV Displays.
  5 of the 10 top CE companies have released a Blu-ray player to market.
• Sony has shipped 1 million PS3 as of December 31, 2006.
• 75% of the respondents plan to use their PS3 as a primary device for watching movies.
• Largest variety of movies.
• Largest variety of hardware.
• BDA has seen a 700% increase in software sales since mind-Nov.
• Half of the Sony titles will be BD50, despite what HD DVD said.
• a strong lineup of movie releases as why its market share will continue to increase this year, all but eliminating any competition by 2010

[Redshirt_X]

Uh huh.

In other news, Oceania has always been at war with Eurasia...

[tranCendenZ]

[Jack & Coke]

img

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=sore+loser

[Renocide]

Joke this is sorta like when your mom tells you your a handsom young man.

Your really ugly but she is your mother. She HAS to say that. Your her son.

[VW_Factor]

Joke this is sorta like when your mom tells you your a handsom young man.

Your really ugly but she is your mother. She HAS to say that. Your her son.

qft.

[Jack & Coke]

Joke this is sorta like when your mom tells you your a handsom young man.

Your really ugly but she is your mother. She HAS to say that. Your her son.

Don't bring your life into this.

Facts were posted, you responded with......crying or something. How sad for you.

[VW_Factor]

Don't bring your life into this.

Facts were posted, you responded with......crying or something. How sad for you.

That was a poor attempt at "burning" someone.





In all seriousness. You really expect ANOTHER Sony format to actually succeed?

The odds are very much against it.

[Hidavi]

They declare victory in a war they're obviously loosing?

[painkiller]

They declare victory in a war they're obviously loosing?

http://clockcrew.us/gifs/rofl.jpg

How did you come up to that conclusion? BD is now almost in par with sales on HD-DVD despite their 6 months head start. BD has couth up with the number of titles to offer despite the 6 months headstart. BD just released a lot more movies than HD-DVD did. BD has a clear advantage on the ammount of BD capable players in house holds. BD has the advantage on disk space and codecs. BD has the advantage on studios and hardware manufacturers. I just don't get it that how can someone come to a conclusion that HD-DVD is obviously winning BD "isn't obviously" winning either, but given the resent facts I just stated above I'd say they would more likely win.

[Renocide]

Don't bring your life into this.

Facts were posted, you responded with......crying or something. How sad for you.

That just sailed right over your head.

Ok, let's try it again.

Read the last line from your source..

Check out our live coverage of the BDA press conference going on right now for more propaganda/truth (depending on your viewpoint).

See that Joke? The bolded part. Even Engadget understood it to be PR bullshit. Yet you go and post here like it's from some third party or something.

I guess you took the second choice HDEngadget offered you and ran with it.

[Trunks0]

Its standard PR people. Engadget calling it "Propaganda" is a rather nice little jab. However the only reason Sony is getting slammed for any type of PR is because they are Sony. Everyone is out to watch the big guy fall, so they are taking every little jab they can to see it happen.

[Renocide]

Its standard PR people. Engadget calling it "Propaganda" is a rather nice little jab. However the only reason Sony is getting slammed for any type of PR is because they are Sony. Everyone is out to watch the big guy fall, so they are taking every little jab they can to see it happen.

My problem wasn't with the fact that it was typical Sony PR crap. It was with Joke & Coke running in here claiming the war was over.

Trying to enlighten the little guy!

[Vengeance]

I hate Sony....I really do. So I will not buy any Blue Ray player made by anyone until I have no other choice at all.

[Bob Bobbles]

[Jack & Coke]

My problem wasn't with the fact that it was typical Sony PR crap. It was with Joke & Coke running in here claiming the war was over.

Trying to enlighten the little guy!

Well instead of acting like a 2 year old throwing a tantrum, why not dispute the bullet points I posted? Near as I can tell they are all accurate.

I guess it just hurts your little ego that your little format is losing and all you can do about it is toss insults and rant instead of posting proof or facts.

Keep it up, it's very entertaining.

[Hidavi]

How did you come up to that conclusion? BD is now almost in par with sales on HD-DVD despite their 6 months head start. BD has couth up with the number of titles to offer despite the 6 months headstart. BD just released a lot more movies than HD-DVD did. BD has a clear advantage on the ammount of BD capable players in house holds. BD has the advantage on disk space and codecs. BD has the advantage on studios and hardware manufacturers. I just don't get it that how can someone come to a conclusion that HD-DVD is obviously winning BD "isn't obviously" winning either, but given the resent facts I just stated above I'd say they would more likely win.

http://www.eproductwars.com/dvd/

[VW_Factor]

Well instead of acting like a 2 year old throwing a tantrum, why not dispute the bullet points I posted? Near as I can tell they are all accurate.

I guess it just hurts your little ego that your little format is losing and all you can do about it is toss insults and rant instead of posting proof or facts.

Keep it up, it's very entertaining.

Its funny to watch this guy. Diverting the "you need to prove to me" ****. Im glad you are laughing.

Because most people here are laughing at you. Im not going to predict anything, however, the clear winner isnt going to be declared, or even decided on for likely a couple years.

Sony will likely pump a **** load of money into BluRay until it either wins or loses in a few years. So regardless, its going to be long "fight" and in all honesty, the odds are against Sony here. At least with us "techie" people.

Sony is banking on the common Joe to adopt their wares, as there are much more of "them" than there are "us". You seem to fall under the common Joe category.

[Jack & Coke]

Sony is banking on the common Joe to adopt their wares, as there are much more of "them" than there are "us". You seem to fall under the common Joe category.

Actually many "techie" people are for Blu-ray because of its technical superiority (better PC support, large disc size, 1080p supported from the start).

It seems most HD-DVD supporters are just anti-Sony and are using their bias as a decision maker. Although it's more than just Sony backing Blu-ray. 18 members on the board and over 100 industry supporters.

I really can't see one thing that HD-DVD has over Blu-ray.

So go ahead and attack me if you can't attack the facts posted above, I'm not really sure how it helps you cause any.

[VW_Factor]

How am I attacking you?

Just saying.. The track record isnt good.

Why dont you start telling us again how BetaMAX (or various other medias) are technically superior, however, they all failed. ??? (I remember when I was younger and going to the rental store, there being a betamax side and VHS side)

My personal opinion is that BluRay could be a kick ass media tech for data backups, and general computer data use.

Leaving that aside.. Sony and this association are declaring victory now? When its far from over, and really, seriously, isnt looking good for them initially?

Spam all the PR you want, the above Bush pic puts it best. Its very very PR'ish and way too soon to try and say something, such as what you are.

[VW_Factor]

*snip* (better PC support, large disc size, 1080p supported from the start).
*snip*

Myth: Blu-ray is superior because it supports 1080P and HD-DVD doesn’t

Reality: This myth stems from the players themselves and not the actual disc formats. All HD-DVD’s released to date are encoded at 1080p; Blu-ray and HD-DVD are no more defined by their respective players than the DVD format was. Many of the first DVD players didn’t support DTS, but do you hear anyone claiming that DVD doesn’t support DTS?

This is only one myth supported by Sony PR.

[Imbroglio]

I really can't see one thing that HD-DVD has over Blu-ray.

First thing, do you own a BD player or are you another one of these ps3 fanbois who has a system and thus BD is better?

things HD-DVD has over BD

1) Standardization : Please go to your local electronics reseller and ask them to play a clip from the Descent BD for you.... Wait it didn't play? Oh thats right, they put on different BD-j menus that the BD players can't handle. An obvious win for BD.

2) Menus: Please tell me how your vastly inferior java menus are better than the interactive HD-DVD menus? nothing? hello?

3) Players: The Toshiba XA2 HD-DVD player is currently one of the best HD players one the market, and with it's SD-DVD upscaling, it rivals many $5k+ scaler units. BD has a buggy $999 player and the ps3. another obvious win for BD.

4) Pricing: On average BD movies are priced between 3-8 dollars more (with the exception of BestBuy, have a feeling there are kick backs involved). Another win for BD.

5) Codecs: Let's not go here, because with the variety of codecs being used, this relates back to #1. Sure VC-1 is being used on some movies, but it's inferior counterpart mpeg2 is being used on the majority of the movies.

6) Audio: you know what, forget this one as well, your probably playing your BD movies through your ps3 using the TV speakers, so we'll just ignore this one for your sake and call it even.

I see no reason to keep going. HD-DVD has a 51gb triple layer disc coming and BD has a 200gb disc coming, with BD being a much more expensive media, it's only driving force are the comments from the strictly BD studio of 20th century Fox and Sony that keep the BD pr moving. Ignore the pr and use your head and do some research.

edit: maybe you should go over to avsforum.com and try to argue your unresearched arguements that BD is better. better not post any of this PR crap either, that is unless you intend on being flamed

[Hidavi]

I severly doubt that the extra cost of 200GB movie discs is warranted. Its not like any movie is going to use 200GB to playback at 1080p. Unless they plan to start selling combo discs with multiple movies on each disc.

[Jack & Coke]

1) Standardization : Please go to your local electronics reseller and ask them to play a clip from the Descent BD for you.... Wait it didn't play? Oh thats right, they put on different BD-j menus that the BD players can't handle. An obvious win for BD.

You could also go over to AVS forums and see complaints of problems with early HD-DVD discs and playback. Standardization can be a limitation as much as a positive.

2) Menus: Please tell me how your vastly inferior java menus are better than the interactive HD-DVD menus? nothing? hello?

Menus is a matter of opinion. Not any sort of fact.

3) Players: The Toshiba XA2 HD-DVD player is currently one of the best HD players one the market, and with it's SD-DVD upscaling, it rivals many $5k+ scaler units. BD has a buggy $999 player and the ps3. another obvious win for BD.

The PS3 is a better player than the Toshiba, not only for movies, but games and SACD. Buggy $999 player, the first gen Toshiba HD-DVD player had it share of bugs. The XA2 just came out in the last week or so.

4) Pricing: On average BD movies are priced between 3-8 dollars more (with the exception of BestBuy, have a feeling there are kick backs involved). Another win for BD.

Again the PS3 is $500 and the price of standalones are dropping to $500. As you noted Best Buy has the movies at the same price. So price is not an issue.

5) Codecs: Let's not go here, because with the variety of codecs being used, this relates back to #1. Sure VC-1 is being used on some movies, but it's inferior counterpart mpeg2 is being used on the majority of the movies.

Codecs? LOL they use the same codecs. This argument is so old and false, you may want to do some research of your own. In fact I seem to remember a thread here pimping Chronos on HD-DVD and it was MPEG2.

6) Audio: you know what, forget this one as well, your probably playing your BD movies through your ps3 using the TV speakers, so we'll just ignore this one for your sake and call it even.

Yes with more space on a disc Blu-ray does have room for better uncompressed audio.

I see no reason to keep going. HD-DVD has a 51gb triple layer disc coming and BD has a 200gb disc coming, with BD being a much more expensive media, it's only driving force are the comments from the strictly BD studio of 20th century Fox and Sony that keep the BD pr moving. Ignore the pr and use your head and do some research.

edit: maybe you should go over to avsforum.com and try to argue your unresearched arguements that BD is better. better not post any of this PR crap either, that is unless you intend on being flamed

I admit that the above is PR, but it is also fact. So unless you can dispute what they said, it does not matter where it came from.

I have done research and I don't see a compelling reason to chose HD-DVD over Blu-ray.

Again better support from the consumer electronics industry, pc industry, movie industry and gaming industry not to mention a better technology are what make Blu-ray a clear winner here.

[VW_Factor]

*snip*
I have done research and I don't see a compelling reason to chose HD-DVD over Blu-ray.
*snip*

This post oozes of viral.

Anyway, you are stating your matter of opinion here, so I'll state mine. I dont see any compelling reason to choose Blu-Ray over HD-DVD.

PR but also fact? Isnt that like an oxymoron?

[Imbroglio]

do you care to re-hash my post and use points that are valid facts based on current standards/facts and please leave your opinions of better players and past issues that have been resolved out. then maybe i'll make a counterpoint.

this is how a discussion works, point and counter-point. not point and counter-opinion/out-dated material.

what is this gaming industry support? you mean sony forced the format into their consoles so their forced to use it? that's not support, that's blackballing. use our format or don't sell games for our console. oh i know, more space = better graphics... *laugh* more space = more data padding as is the case of RFOM. speaking of which, how are those ps3 sales doing? shitty still? how's the 720p support coming? still by far a much better player, haha

of you movie industry support, aside from disney and fox studios, who aren't releasing on hd-dvd.

last question, do you get paid for this?

edit: can you find me any neutral material that says BD is winning the format war so far? ie not 20th century fox, not sony, not any pro-sony site.

[Trunks0]

First thing, do you own a BD player or are you another one of these ps3 fanbois who has a system and thus BD is better?

things HD-DVD has over BD

1) Standardization : Please go to your local electronics reseller and ask them to play a clip from the Descent BD for you.... Wait it didn't play? Oh thats right, they put on different BD-j menus that the BD players can't handle. An obvious win for BD.

2) Menus: Please tell me how your vastly inferior java menus are better than the interactive HD-DVD menus? nothing? hello?

3) Players: The Toshiba XA2 HD-DVD player is currently one of the best HD players one the market, and with it's SD-DVD upscaling, it rivals many $5k+ scaler units. BD has a buggy $999 player and the ps3. another obvious win for BD.

4) Pricing: On average BD movies are priced between 3-8 dollars more (with the exception of BestBuy, have a feeling there are kick backs involved). Another win for BD.

5) Codecs: Let's not go here, because with the variety of codecs being used, this relates back to #1. Sure VC-1 is being used on some movies, but it's inferior counterpart mpeg2 is being used on the majority of the movies.

6) Audio: you know what, forget this one as well, your probably playing your BD movies through your ps3 using the TV speakers, so we'll just ignore this one for your sake and call it even.

I see no reason to keep going. HD-DVD has a 51gb triple layer disc coming and BD has a 200gb disc coming, with BD being a much more expensive media, it's only driving force are the comments from the strictly BD studio of 20th century Fox and Sony that keep the BD pr moving. Ignore the pr and use your head and do some research.

edit: maybe you should go over to avsforum.com and try to argue your unresearched arguements that BD is better. better not post any of this PR crap either, that is unless you intend on being flamed

1)To true no argument there

2) Untrue. BD-J allows for far more flexibility than HD-I. However it is harder to program and relating to 1, not all players yet support it.

3) First gen, will be an after though 2yrs from now.

4) See Three

5) They support for the most part the same codecs. Studio stupidity is not a format failing

6) See 1 and relate to 5

*edit*
Mind you I can say this because I don't plan to buy either for at least a year.

[Jack & Coke]

This post oozes of viral.

Anyway, you are stating your matter of opinion here, so I'll state mine. I dont see any compelling reason to choose Blu-Ray over HD-DVD.

I have stated my reasons all based on fact not opinion.

PR but also fact? Isnt that like an oxymoron?

Then dispute what they have said. So far no one has been able to.

[Jack & Coke]

do you care to re-hash my post and use points that are valid facts based on current standards/facts and please leave your opinions of better players and past issues that have been resolved out. then maybe i'll make a counterpoint.

I did post facts and much of what you stated was outdated and or your opinion.

this is how a discussion works, point and counter-point. not point and counter-opinion/out-dated material.

I responded in much the same way you posted. I guess it's only fact, up to date and not opinion if it's your view and not others?

what is this gaming industry support? you mean sony forced the format into their consoles so their forced to use it? that's not support, that's blackballing. use our format or don't sell games for our console. speaking of which, how are those ps3 sales doing? shitty still?

Regardless of your opinion of Sony, the PS3 has already put blu-ray players in over 1 million homes. That is a huge boost for the format that gives it a better chance of succeeding over HD-DVD

of you movie industry support, aside from disney and fox studios, who aren't releasing on hd-dvd.

I know it's obvious but you also missed Sony studios.

last question, do you get paid for this?

Nope. Why not ask the same of some of the HD-DVD supporters? That's a very lame attempt to discredit someone by saying they are a viral marketer. I don't work for anyone or anything associated with Blu-ray.

[VW_Factor]

I have stated my reasons all based on fact not opinion.


Then dispute what they have said. So far no one has been able to.

People have argued it, you just sound like a viral marketer or a blind fanboi.

Again, you state opinions, based on other opinions or spins of information.

[painkiller]

I severly doubt that the extra cost of 200GB movie discs is warranted. Its not like any movie is going to use 200GB to playback at 1080p. Unless they plan to start selling combo discs with multiple movies on each disc.

Yes 200Gb wont be needed for movies, but why do you want to go with hd-dvd when you can have both on BD a lot highegher media capacity for pc and same quality movies or even better. If HD-DVD wins there wouldn't be much need for BD in the PC area as you couldn't burn HD-DVD compatible media with those drives. If HD-DVD wins then we loose a lot in PC department. I hope you haven't decided or bought a HiDef player yet, be it HD-DVD or BD. But I think BD has some major leverage on the studio support and the fact that it is on PS3. Also checking the list for released movies on BD from CES it doesn't look good for HD-DVD. Everyone from HD-DVD side was touting about CES and how they would destroy BD with releases but thus far they haven't released anything compared to BD. Universal is still up but I don't think they can get even close to what BD just released.

[Hidavi]

^No, I haven't bought an high-def player. I don't plan on it for at least another year as I'm plenty satisfied with the current quality of 480p DVDs.

I think that BD could have a very promising future as a storage format when it goes 200GB.

My reason for being on the HD-DVD side is that so far, its better in features, price and video quality.

[Renocide]

Well instead of acting like a 2 year old throwing a tantrum, why not dispute the bullet points I posted? Near as I can tell they are all accurate.

I guess it just hurts your little ego that your little format is losing and all you can do about it is toss insults and rant instead of posting proof or facts.

Keep it up, it's very entertaining.

Why would I need to dispute the bullet points since you have yet to prove they are right?

Can I assume that you have the links to the research from a independent third party that conducted them?

Near as you can tell they are accurate? Your already coming from the position that your not even sure.

[VW_Factor]

Why would I need to dispute the bullet points since you have yet to prove they are right?

Can I assume that you have the links to the research from a independent third party that conducted them?

Near as you can tell they are accurate? Your already coming from the position that your not even sure.

He wants us to do his job for him.

[painkiller]

^No, I haven't bought an high-def player. I don't plan on it for at least another year as I'm plenty satisfied with the current quality of 480p DVDs.

I think that BD could have a very promising future as a storage format when it goes 200GB.

My reason for being on the HD-DVD side is that so far, its better in features, price and video quality.

But Sony is now also moving to MPEG4 AVC so there wont be anymore differences with quality with HD-DVD, most likely BD will pull out some titles with better quality due to higher capacity and higher bit rates. Feature wise both formats are pretty much the same. Can't say much about interactivity, but I feel that BD has an edge here as they support Java, but only time will tell, unless they will both release the complete spec of BD-J and iHD, but that is not likely to happen.

[Jack & Coke]

People have argued it, you just sound like a viral marketer or a blind fanboi.

Again, more insults and false accusations and no proof or facts.

Again, you state opinions, based on other opinions or spins of information.

Again, no proof to dispute the information that I have posted.

Why would I need to dispute the bullet points since you have yet to prove they are right?

I posted the information from facts provided at CES. No one here has disproved any of it.

Can I assume that you have the links to the research from a independent third party that conducted them?

Do you? I posted a link to my information, what have you done?

Near as you can tell they are accurate? Your already coming from the position that your not even sure.

While you are coming from no position at all. I have found nothing that disputes the information I posted. You argue against it with nothing at all to back up your statements.

[VW_Factor]

Again, more insults and false accusations and no proof or facts.
Again, no proof to dispute the information that I have posted.


I posted the information from facts provided at CES. No one here has disproved any of it.
Do you? I posted a link to my information, what have you done?
While you are coming from no position at all. I have found nothing that disputes the information I posted. You argue against it with nothing at all to back up your statements.

You posted facts? You posted a "declaration" of victory. What you posted are bullet points that read, look, sound, like standard PR bullshit. While some may have some solid ground to stand on (largest variety of hardware), others are really just a spin on some shred of evidence its doing well. Such as..

75% of the respondents plan to use their PS3 as a primary device for watching movies.

Respondants from who, what, where? If I owned a PS3, I'd probably watch movies on it too. Would it become my primary media player? Likely not.

Therefor, posting "facts" from some public relations bullshit bullet list are not winning you any points here. You are faced with the challenge of showing us this list stands on a solid foundation.

Complaining that people are insulting you now is a failing attempt at diverting the topic as well. When your post of this list was not well received you were the first person who flung something that was intended to directly insult another user.

Now. Why is it again, that you are calling for us to "disprove" your PR spin bullet list?

[Renocide]

Again, no proof to dispute the information that I have posted.


I posted the information from facts provided at CES. No one here has disproved any of it.

You simply aren't getting it. We don't have to prove your bullet points as false. They come from the Blu-Ray Association, which makes them WRONG to start with unless they show us the research where they got the information from.

Why is this so hard to understand???

This is like Kim Jong-il saying he conducted a poll of his people and 99.9% of them support what he is doing and that they enjoy starving. Ofcourse, when pressured he has nothing to show he even took the poll.

Do you get it?

I don't know how to be any clearer than this. At this point Im ready to call you a lost cause and carry on...

[Jack & Coke]

You posted facts? You posted a "declaration" of victory. What you posted are bullet points that read, look, sound, like standard PR bullshit. While some may have some solid ground to stand on (largest variety of hardware), others are really just a spin on some shred of evidence its doing well. Such as..

75% of the respondents plan to use their PS3 as a primary device for watching movies.

Respondants from who, what, where? If I owned a PS3, I'd probably watch movies on it too. Would it become my primary media player? Likely not.

Did you read the link? It states where the data came from.

Therefor, posting "facts" from some public relations bullshit bullet list are not winning you any points here. You are faced with the challenge of showing us this list stands on a solid foundation.

BS from your one sided view. I see nothing that disputes what was said.

Complaining that people are insulting you now is a failing attempt at diverting the topic as well. When your post of this list was not well received you were the first person who flung something that was intended to directly insult another user.

Again, your one sided view comes into play. That was clearly in response to an immature statement and I merely responded at the same level hoping that person would understand.

Now. Why is it again, that you are calling for us to "disprove" your PR spin bullet list?

It is not MY PR spin. It is notes posted by Engadget from CES. Others were calling it false without any proof, so I asked them to back it up. No one has.

[VW_Factor]

*snip*
Again, your one sided view comes into play. *snip*

My one sided view? You dont even know what my view is.

Bear in mind here, I dont really give a **** either way which is decided to be the winner. I personally am going to wait quite some time, before choosing a player, etc. Im not that far into the HT stuff myself. I have my reasons for this.

-VW sees thread, and wonders, wow, they already won?

-VW sees other members dismiss the PR spin

-VW sees Jack & Coke furiously defending the PR spin bulleted list.

-VW still is chuckling watching this *Morning Playhouse style* thread go down.

Edit : BTW, I have to point out, that your "pick apart argument" posting style there, makes hardly any sense whatever, and certainly is kinda funny.

You are faced with the challenge, then he says its BS on my side.. lol.