Official Thread: Coronavirus "COVID-19"

[ice]

If you have to go outside, especially an indoor environment, protect yourself like crazy. N95 mask, sunglasses or any sort of eye protection. Get in and get out, strip and jump into the shower when you get home.

Yeah... No.

[Crawdaddy79]

You know we're in for some real S, when the calm woman on stage begins to scream.

Dr. Birx to
@DanaBashCNN
yesterday on #CNNSOTU:

"We are in a new phase... I want to be very clear. What we are seeing today is different from March and April. It is extraordinarily widespread."

Doesn't look like a scream to me. Pretty much confirms what we've already known for months. Asymptomatic spread, ridiculously severe lack of testing in the first months of US contagion... it wouldn't surprise me at all if 50% of the population has been exposed.

[nutcrackr]

That's the problem with the more infectious strain, it will win the day when we put in social distancing measures.

[Jasef]

It has nothing to do with my belief or my feeling, which is just another statement by you, to ridicule me. It has to do with proven statistical data collection and tracking norms that are proven thru out time, specially where viruses are concerned. A virus just doesn't instantly stop infecting without something happening to change that. What was that something?
How is it that instantly people just stop being infected causing a 60% drop in cases? Please explain. Because so far I see nothing that tells, what happened? Why? How was Sweden all of a sudden able to stop the infections and case count from rising and to instantly drop by 60%? Your explanation would show a curve, not a sudden drop.

Herd imunity and better protection of high risk population. More time spent outside with lower risk of infection.
For curves and what not, have at it: https://experience.arcgis.com/experi...6f9f87457ed9aa

Funny, you say the death rate is not wrong, but after April, the deaths drop steadily even though case count continues to rise substantially until June when it did the instant drop. Yet every other country, when case count went up, so did their death count, or at the very least they stayed the same and never went down till their case count did.

We failed our high risk population and they died. More testing led to more confirmed cases though there was always a higher amount of actually infected.

Is it how Sweden classify COVID-19 deaths, treatment, or is the virus being selective because it likes Swedish people?

Classification has not changed.

[Nunz]

Yeah I believe the fact that testing became more available allowed people to find out they had it sooner, allowing treatment (if necessary) to be given earlier on. That would absolutely decrease deaths with no relation to the amount of cases

[AllexxisF1]

Yeah... No.

[Canesfan2020]

I like how Sweden's scientific community can't agree but rage3d has the answers. Especially when it comes to herd immunity. Playing a dangerous game throwing that around willy nilly. Looking at their mortality rate just a month ago even if that is the case they paid quite a price.

[NWR_Midnight]

Herd imunity and better protection of high risk population. More time spent outside with lower risk of infection.
For curves and what not, have at it: https://experience.arcgis.com/experi...6f9f87457ed9aa
We failed our high risk population and they died. More testing led to more confirmed cases though there was always a higher amount of actually infected.

Classification has not changed.

There has been no proven herd immunity with this virus as of yet, world wide.. Are Sweden's Unique in this aspect? Herd immunity also takes time, which means you would have a curve, not a sudden drop off. And it would take longer in less population dense areas.

Your link shows only 3 areas... And it also has a curve, not a sudden drop off. You have given no evidence that explains a sudden 60% drop in cases instantly. Everything you stated supports a gradual curve would have taken place.. which is not what the data shows happened Country wide.

You also have given nothing that supports a gradual decrease in deaths as your case count sky rocketed. Or are all the deaths only high risk people, again making Sweden unique from any other country in the world?

So far, all your answer demonstrate why the numbers don't appear to be accurate and support that we should be seeing a curve in case count, rather than the sudden drop off that it shows. With no explanation as to why the death count miraculously was unaffected by the sharp increase in case count for 2 months straight which is opposite of any other country. There has to be a reason and it's not because of "high risk" or herd immunity, that has yet to be proven exists.

[AllexxisF1]

Herd immunity is greatly impaired by a high contagious virus.

Just this week the Administration has been admitting that COVID-19 is far more contagious then they thought it was.

So where you think 64% is that magic number, in this case, it might be far more, which makes herd immunity useless.

COVID-19 in indoor contained areas with people for a sustained amount of time is highly infectious. Outside with a simple cloth mask and distance, you are more safe then you would think.

But indoors, F-that. You are walking in a saturated invisible floating cloud of muck.

Here's a wonderful refresher from Vox, about how crazy infectious this is indoors compared to outdoors.

[yt]n6QwnzbRUyA[/yt]

[acroig]

Herd imunity and better protection of high risk population. More time spent outside with lower risk of infection.
For curves and what not, have at it: https://experience.arcgis.com/experi...6f9f87457ed9aa
We failed our high risk population and they died. More testing led to more confirmed cases though there was always a higher amount of actually infected.

Classification has not changed.

Heard immunity with covid is not attainable as the antibodies last all of 3 months on average and people get re-infected.

https://www.healthline.com/health-news/nowhere-near-herd-immunity-with-covid-19

[AllexxisF1]

Heard immunity with covid is not attainable as the antibodies last all of 3 months on average and people get re-infected.

https://www.healthline.com/health-ne...-with-covid-19

I'm still highly skeptical when it comes to reinfection. It is an incredibly rare thing once you build antibodies for a virus, that you can get sick from it again.

I think when we look back with a lot more research, many if not all of these folks, just had faulting testing results.

Because, looking at this objectively, we know that it's incredibly rare to get reinfected from a virus and secondly, and more importantly, we know the tests are faulty and unreliable.

[Jasef]

There has been no proven herd immunity with this virus as of yet, world wide.. Are Sweden's Unique in this aspect? Herd immunity also takes time, which means you would have a curve, not a sudden drop off. And it would take longer in less population dense areas.

But it can slow spread, and that was only one of the factors I mentioned, you just conviniently skipped the others.

Your link shows only 3 areas... And it also has a curve, not a sudden drop off. You have given no evidence that explains a sudden 60% drop in cases instantly. Everything you stated supports a gradual curve would have taken place.. which is not what the data shows happened Country wide.

No, it shows all of Sweden. Unless it shows something different at your end. If that is the case and if you want to I could post screens.

You also have given nothing that supports a gradual decrease in deaths as your case count sky rocketed. Or are all the deaths only high risk people, again making Sweden unique from any other country in the world?

Er, yes, I did. Case count skyrocketed because testing became more widely available. Actual cases where always higher then previously shown in confirmed cases. This was because in the earlier stages only people being sick enough to warrant actual medical aid in hospitals where tested. To save resources. Is there something you do not understand in this argument?

So far, all your answer demonstrate why the numbers don't appear to be accurate and support that we should be seeing a curve in case count, rather than the sudden drop off that it shows. With no explanation as to why the death count miraculously was unaffected by the sharp increase in case count for 2 months straight which is opposite of any other country.

My bad. The number of deaths are pretty spot on. The number of infected has always been underreported.

There has to be a reason and it's not because of "high risk" or herd immunity, that has yet to be proven exists.

Ok.

Heard immunity with covid is not attainable as the antibodies last all of 3 months on average and people get re-infected.

https://www.healthline.com/health-ne...-with-covid-19

T-cells. And even if antibodies where the only things stopping you from getting sick, it would still work partly do dampen the infection rate.

[acroig]

I'm still highly skeptical when it comes to reinfection. It is an incredibly rare thing once you build antibodies for a virus, that you can get sick from it again.

I think when we look back with a lot more research, many if not all of these folks, just had faulting testing results.

Because, looking at this objectively, we know that it's incredibly rare to get reinfected from a virus and secondly, and more importantly, we know the tests are faulty and unreliable.

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/i-cannot-get-again-it-possible-get-reinfected-coronavirus-n1233667

[koralis]

Heard immunity with covid is not attainable as the antibodies last all of 3 months on average and people get re-infected.

https://www.healthline.com/health-ne...-with-covid-19

But experts Healthline spoke with say we’re not even close. To get there, we would need 60 to 70 percent of the population to get an infection.

This article (and/or experts) are flawed. It's not all about antibodies. B Cells and T cells play a part, and are probably the missing link regarding asymptomatic and mild cases. T cells are harder to test for. It's not quite as dire as they make it out to be from what I'm gathering.


The tests don't measure T-Cells, which provide another layer of protection that exists alongside antibodies, and T-Cells which have experianced other coronaviruses seem to provide protection against Covid-19

https://directorsblog.nih.gov/2020/07/28/immune-t-cells-may-offer-lasting-protection-against-covid-19/

Much of the study on the immune response to SARS-CoV-2, the novel coronavirus that causes COVID-19, has focused on the production of antibodies. But, in fact, immune cells known as memory T cells also play an important role in the ability of our immune systems to protect us against many viral infections, including—it now appears—COVID-19.

An intriguing new study of these memory T cells suggests they might protect some people newly infected with SARS-CoV-2 by remembering past encounters with other human coronaviruses. This might potentially explain why some people seem to fend off the virus and may be less susceptible to becoming severely ill with COVID-19.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/concerns-about-waning-covid-19-immunity-are-likely-overblown/

COVID-19 triggers a strong immune response in most people. Yet several recent studies observed that the amounts of antibodies in those recovering from the virus appear to decline within a few months of infection
...
These results may sound universally grim. But several experts Scientific American spoke with said they thought that the declines were not as scary as initially portrayed, that some reduction in antibodies is normal and expected and that antibodies are just one piece of the immunity puzzle.
...
Scientists have focused on antibodies because they are relatively easy to measure with a blood test and may be helpful as a treatment for COVID-19. But the adaptive immune system also involves T cells, which may mount a strong response to the novel coronavirus even if antibodies have waned. In May Alessandro Sette and Shane Crotty, both at the La Jolla Institute for Immunology, published a study showing that SARS-CoV-2 produces a strong T cell response, particularly to the virus’s “spike” protein, which it uses to gain entry to cells. And a preprint study by researchers at the Karolinska Institute in Sweden found such responses in people with mild or asymptomatic COVID-19, including when antibodies were undetectable. So even without antibodies, T cells could keep a record of the infection. But its strength may depend on that infection’s severity. “The memory is proportional to the perturbation to the insult—how much of a scare the immune system has,” Sette says. “If it's a very mild infection, it might not create enough of an immune response, in the first place, to create a long-lasting memory.” In fact, Stamataki says, it is possible that some people may clear SARS-CoV-2 using the innate immune system—without developing any memory of it. If they then encountered the virus again, they could potentially get COVID-19 a second time.

Then there's the fact that some of the most widely available tests are not neccessarily testing for antibodies that are the most useful.. the ones that target the spikes.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/26/health/coronvirus-antibody-tests.html

Declining antibody levels do not mean less immunity, experts say. Besides, two widely used tests may detect the wrong antibodies.
...
Moreover, some tests — including those made by Abbott and Roche and offered by Quest Diagnostics and LabCorp — are designed to detect a subtype of antibodies that doesn’t confer immunity and may wane even faster than the kind that can destroy the virus.

What that means is that declining antibodies, as shown by commercial tests, don’t necessarily mean declining immunity, several experts said. Long-term surveys of antibodies, intended to assess how widely the coronavirus has spread, may also underestimate the true prevalence.

[Canesfan2020]

What's the metric in that link on the first page between case history and deceased ?

[Crawdaddy79]

No, it shows all of Sweden. Unless it shows something different at your end. If that is the case and if you want to I could post screens.

It shows all of Sweden for me.

[AllexxisF1]

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/healt...virus-n1233667

Like I said Bud, *If the testing is faulty, then that would explain it.

[Nagorak]

Just to provide some more background based on what I've read: We don't constantly maintain antibodies against every disease that has ever infected us. It would just require too much energy, and we'd be drowning in a sea of antibodies.

Instead what we have are memory T-cells that remember the infection. If that disease infects us again, then these T-cells are activated and kick off the production of anti-bodies against it. Because the body already knows what to do, those anti-bodies can be spun up more quickly. So, simply not having circulating anti-bodies doesn't mean that immunity has been lost.

The anecdotal reports of people being reinfected are concerning, but it's too early to say that is the result of lack of immunity. It could be faulty testing (i.e. false positive of one of their infections). We just have to wait and see at this point.

[XSBagage]

Your link shows only 3 areas... And it also has a curve, not a sudden drop off. You have given no evidence that explains a sudden 60% drop in cases instantly. Everything you stated supports a gradual curve would have taken place.. which is not what the data shows happened Country wide.

Could you clarify that 60% drop you keep talking about NWR?
Where do you get that data and between which dates?

[NWR_Midnight]

Could you clarify that 60% drop you keep talking about NWR?
Where do you get that data and between which dates?

Last full week of June (week of the 22nd) vs the following week going into July (week of the 29th of June) not counting weekends. 60% was just a quick visual estimate. If you average all days between the two weeks, it's actually around 50%.. they bounced back to the same numbers they where getting the week of May 27, Like the steady 4 week increase in June was just shut off and didn't happen.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/sweden/

[NWR_Midnight]

But it can slow spread, and that was only one of the factors I mentioned, you just conviniently skipped the others.


No, it shows all of Sweden. Unless it shows something different at your end. If that is the case and if you want to I could post screens.



Er, yes, I did. Case count skyrocketed because testing became more widely available. Actual cases where always higher then previously shown in confirmed cases. This was because in the earlier stages only people being sick enough to warrant actual medical aid in hospitals where tested. To save resources. Is there something you do not understand in this argument?



My bad. The number of deaths are pretty spot on. The number of infected has always been underreported.

Ok.



T-cells. And even if antibodies where the only things stopping you from getting sick, it would still work partly do dampen the infection rate.

I didn't ignore anything. All you have given is your theories, which does not prove the numbers are accurate.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/sweden/

How is it that every other country has more tests available, and more people are being tested, yet, death count is also on the rise with the increase with cases? Every explanation you have used id also taking place in every other part of the world, Yet you want me to believe that those variables effect Sweden different.

Lets take some of the states in the US that didn't lock down, didn't put in restrictions etc.. wouldn't they have similar results as Sweden, specially after 6 months? Yet, the results are far from similar. Their casesare sky rocketting and so are the deaths.. (forcing them to boe act) why isn't any of your explanations happening in those states, specially after 6 months?

I am looking for something other than theories that support the accuracy of the numbers, because the rest of the world is having a different experience.

[Crawdaddy79]

It's not a stretch to theorize that the number of actual infected was on the decrease as tested positive cases were on the rise, especially when you consider that each day there are people waiting to be tested and number of tests to occur were ramping up. The peak could be when the queue was taken care of, and every test after that is exclusively a new infection, and not one that waited for days or even weeks to get tested.

So far everything Jasef has said makes sense to me.

[NWR_Midnight]

It's not a stretch to theorize that the number of actual infected was on the decrease as tested positive cases were on the rise, especially when you consider that each day there are people waiting to be tested and number of tests to occur were ramping up. The peak could be when the queue was taken care of, and every test after that is exclusively a new infection, and not one that waited for days or even weeks to get tested.

So far everything Jasef has said makes sense to me.

if that is the case, why is it only Sweden that is seeing this trend, as the same thing should be happening all over the world, as the same scenario is taking place around the world, yet the rest of the world is seeing different results where deaths are concerned . For the last 3 months (April til now) new cases had zero effect on death rate and the death rate stayed on an even trajectory with little or no variance? It doesn't add up to me.

As I already stated, even the states in the US that didn't lockdown or issue stay at home orders have different results then what Sweden is showing.

[Nunz]

How is he supposed to prove what you want him to prove? There is no way to prove or disprove the statistics you are posting. If anything, the burden of proof is on you to prove that the statistics are somehow falsified; something you will have a hard time doing without being in Sweden.

[Jasef]

It's not a stretch to theorize that the number of actual infected was on the decrease as tested positive cases were on the rise, especially when you consider that each day there are people waiting to be tested and number of tests to occur were ramping up. The peak could be when the queue was taken care of, and every test after that is exclusively a new infection, and not one that waited for days or even weeks to get tested.

So far everything Jasef has said makes sense to me.

How is he supposed to prove what you want him to prove? There is no way to prove or disprove the statistics you are posting. If anything, the burden of proof is on you to prove that the statistics are somehow falsified; something you will have a hard time doing without being in Sweden.

Thank you.

I give up nwr. You strike me as someone who will refuse to be wrong or having opinions questioned no matter what. Sorry if that is incorrect, but it is my impression from both our own discussions and from seeing you and exposed argue away in the graphics area.

[acroig]

Like I said Bud, *If the testing is faulty, then that would explain it.

True.

[NWR_Midnight]

How is he supposed to prove what you want him to prove? There is no way to prove or disprove the statistics you are posting. If anything, the burden of proof is on you to prove that the statistics are somehow falsified; something you will have a hard time doing without being in Sweden.

I am not the one saying they are accurate when they don't follow or remotely follow the normal trends of the rest of the world. And somehow, you believe I am supposed to show burden of proof because I question there legitimatecy because they make it appear that the Virus treats Swedish people different than anyone else in the world? It's like science, math, data collection, trends, and the Virus works different inside the boarders of Sweden vs everywhere else, or that only these explanations only happen in Sweden. My burden of proof to show why??

I'm not the one who got my feathers all puffed up over me not accepting the statistics as accurate. Heck I don't think there is any country that is accurately reporting their numbers.

[NWR_Midnight]

Thank you.

I give up nwr. You strike me as someone who will refuse to be wrong or having opinions questioned no matter what. Sorry if that is incorrect, but it is my impression from both our own discussions and from seeing you and exposed argue away in the graphics area.

You haven't given any reasons that shows me being wrong. Every explanation and or theories you gave are also taking place around the world, but for some reason, it effects Sweden differently. So you give up and say I won't admit being wrong, because you said they are accurate, and have nothing but your words and theories to support that. I am not the one saying they are accurate when the rest of the world's statistics show opposite trends than Sweden. Even states in the US that didn't lock down are showing different trends/statistics.

All I am looking for is something concrete that explains that since you want to argue accuracy. So far, you have not provided that.

As I said above, in all reality, I doubt any country is accurately reporting their numbers.

[Jasef]

You haven't given any reasons that shows me being wrong. Every explanation and or theories you gave are also taking place around the world, but for some reason, it effects Sweden differently. So you give up and say I won't admit being wrong, because you said they are accurate, and have nothing but your words and theories to support that. I am not the one saying they are accurate when the test of the world's statistics show opposite trends than Sweden. Even states in the US that didn't lock down are showing different result.

All I am looking for is something concrete that explains that since you want to argue accuracy. So far, you have not provided that. In all reality, I doubt any country is accurately reporting their numbers.

Hiding dead people in Sweden is hard. You are simply wrong.

[NWR_Midnight]

Hiding dead people in Sweden is hard. You are simply wrong.

Who said anything about hiding bodies? You don't have to hide bodies to not have accurate numbers. Take a jar of jelly beans for example... You see them all, but would you know if the count was off by just looking at them? Jellybeans is probably a bad example, but I think you het the point.

I commend you for the trust you have for your government.

[Mahjik]

RLF-100 Could Reduce Ventilator Use, Viral Replication in Severe COVID-19

Drug candidate RFL-100 (aviptadil) may have two-fold benefit in patients with coronavirus 2019 (COVID-19).

Producing companies NeuroRx, Inc. and Relief Therapeutics announced this weekend results showing the antiviral Vasoactive Intestinal Polypeptide (VIP) therapy provided rapid respiratory failure reduction in most clinically ill patients with COVID-19—at a time when independent research also showed it blocked replication of SARS-CoV-2 in human lung cells and monocytes.

Further research of RLF-100, which is being developed as a Material Threat Medical Countermeasure in coordination with federal agencies including the National Institutes of Health (NIH), is planned to bolster these findings.

That said, it has already received Fast Track Designation from the US Food and Drug Administration (FDA).

A first report of rapid respiratory failure recovery under the therapy’s emergency use indication came from Houston Methodist Hospital, wherein a COVID-positive 54-year-old man being treated for rejection of a double lung transplant was able to come off ventilator-assisted breathing within 4 four days of care.

Similar benefits were reported in 15-plus other patients treated with RLF-100 under emergency use, according to NeuroRx and Relief, which indicates open access to the therapy for patients too ill to be admitted for the ongoing phase 2/3 clinical trial for patients.

X-ray results of patients with critical COVID-19 treated with RLF-100 also showed a quick clearing of classic pneumonitis findings on X-ray, as well as improved blood oxygen and a 50% or greater mean decrease in laboratory markers of COVID-19 inflammation.

More: https://www.contagionlive.com/news/r...evere-covid-19

[SD-[Inc]]

We should really put the toilet paper brand Charmin in charge of producing PPE. Have you seen the mountains of this stuff at Costco lately? It seems like this company was able to ramp production rapidly as the TP shortage is definitely a thing off the past...

[AllexxisF1]

if that is the case, why is it only Sweden that is seeing this trend, as the same thing should be happening all over the world, as the same scenario is taking place around the world, yet the rest of the world is seeing different results where deaths are concerned . For the last 3 months (April til now) new cases had zero effect on death rate and the death rate stayed on an even trajectory with little or no variance? It doesn't add up to me.

As I already stated, even the states in the US that didn't lockdown or issue stay at home orders have different results then what Sweden is showing.

Sweden's death rate is at 7%

5,747 deaths from 81,181 cases.

That's appalling.

[andino]

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/vitamin-d-deficiency-united-states/

Three-quarters of U.S. teens and adults are deficient in vitamin D, the so-called "sunshine vitamin" whose deficits are increasingly blamed for everything from cancer and heart disease to diabetes, according to new research.

The trend marks a dramatic increase in the amount of vitamin D deficiency in the U.S., according to findings set to be published tomorrow in the Archives of Internal Medicine. Between 1988 and 1994, 45 percent of 18,883 people (who were examined as part of the federal government's National Health and Nutrition Examination Survey) had 30 nanograms per milliliter or more of vitamin D, the blood level a growing number of doctors consider sufficient for overall health; a decade later, just 23 percent of 13,369 of those surveyed had at least that amount.

The slide was particularly striking among African Americans: just 3 percent of 3,149 blacks sampled in 2004 were found to have the recommended levels compared with 12 percent of 5,362 sampled two decades ago.

"We were anticipating that there would be some decline in overall vitamin D levels, but the magnitude of the decline in a relatively short time period was surprising," says study co-author Adit Ginde, an assistant professor at the University of Colorado Denver School of Medicine. Lack of vitamin D is linked to rickets (soft, weak bones) in children and thinning bones in the elderly, but scientists also believe it may play a role in heart disease, diabetes and cancer.

Take your vitamin D folks.

[AllexxisF1]

We will look back on this pandemic and realize the root cause for those who suffered most from this virus, was a simple lack of vitamin D.

Vitamin D is crucial for a healthy immune system. The darker skin you have, the longer it takes to produce. Especially if you live in the northern hemisphere, and exponentially worse in the winter.

The hardest-hit groups are Blacks, Indians, and Latinos.

Get out and get your 15 minutes of Sun every day. It won't stop you from getting sick, but it sure as hell might keep you out of the hospital.

[andino]

We will look back on this pandemic and realize the root cause for those who suffered most from this virus, was a simple lack of vitamin D.

It's still way, way too early to know for sure. It easily could just be an anomaly that scientists have picked up on. Then again, it can't hurt to take your daily dose of vitamin D. We should all be mindful of it. Either way, taking vitamin D doesn't hurt you unless you take a whole lot of it.

[Nascar24]

So I lost my father last night, was it Covid related, I wouldn’t doubt to some extent, he tested positive and appeared to be asymptomatic, he has been in a nursing home for several years and had all kinds of underlying issues, several weeks after testing positive he tested negative, from that point forward he went down hill fast the last month, within a week of the negative test he ended up with pneumonia. Back to the hospital, 2 weeks or so later he is back at the nursing home and just wasn’t right and within 2 weeks that brought us to last night where he was on a ventilator and had to be revived once, my mom wanted the ventilator taken off and waited till I got there, he passed peacefully about 10 minutes later. Will this be defined as a Covid death, I bet probably not but I believe it played a big part in his death right now instead of sometime in the future.

[NWR_Midnight]

So I lost my father last night, was it Covid related, I wouldn’t doubt to some extent, he tested positive and appeared to be asymptomatic, he has been in a nursing home for several years and had all kinds of underlying issues, several weeks after testing positive he tested negative, from that point forward he went down hill fast the last month, within a week of the negative test he ended up with pneumonia. Back to the hospital, 2 weeks or so later he is back at the nursing home and just wasn’t right and within 2 weeks that brought us to last night where he was on a ventilator and had to be revived once, my mom wanted the ventilator taken off and waited till I got there, he passed peacefully about 10 minutes later. Will this be defined as a Covid death, I bet probably not but I believe it played a big part in his death right now instead of sometime in the future.

Sorry for your loss Nascar24. Hard to lose a parent without much warning.

[dodger]

Sorry for your loss Nascar24. I hope you were with him at the end and not behind glass.

[Nascar24]

Thank you NWR and dodger, they surprisingly allowed 3 of us in with him, I was also surprised they didn’t take our temps on arrival. They are allowing us to get together and I pray that this doesn’t end up in more Covid issues, masks will be required for visitation and the funeral the day after. Still am Leary of getting together as a group which also started today with having family over at my Moms